Google/Earthlink Wins San Francisco WiFi Deal 149
maximander wrote to mention coverage in the San Francisco Chronicle of that city's final decision on their city-wide WiFi system. They've chosen to go with Google and EarthLink. From the article: "In choosing to negotiate with the Google-EarthLink team, the city is going with two Internet giants with marque names. Both firms have deep pockets and proven track records online, but only limited experience building a large wireless network. The project, championed by Mayor Gavin Newsom, is intended to boost the city's technology credentials and help bridge the digital divide between the Internet haves and have-nots. It has also generated intense interest from other cities looking to build similar networks. "
I'd love to try it (Score:4, Funny)
*ducks*
Re:I'd love to try it (Score:1)
Re:I'd love to try it (Score:1)
http://maps.a9.com/?ypLoc=Geary%20and%20Powell%2C
Re:I'd love to try it (Score:1)
Or if you want to DIY try photomap.mozdev.org
Adam
Google WiFi Beta (Score:1)
Re:I'd love to try it (Score:2)
Not surprised... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not surprised... (Score:2)
Re:Not surprised... (Score:2)
Well, maybe. But isn't anyone worried about turning cities into ISPs? Will they be faster and better at fixing net problems than potholes? What happens when the city supervisors decide some websites and newsgroups represent "hate" and must be banned? What happens when spammers bring their laptops to SF and spew out millions of spams? It seems to me there's a lot starry-eyed optimism about wireless access that's "free" (really taxpayer-fina
Re:Not surprised... (Score:2)
WiFi, not Cash (Score:5, Funny)
The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2, Insightful)
Unfortunately this agreement between Google-Earthlink and the City of SF is only helping those many unemployed people get wifi access whose local coffee shop are to cheap to provide wifi access for their customers.
Is this agreement going to increase computer accessibility to the poor? Are there going to be more computers at
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:4, Interesting)
You say that as if it's a bad thing. There is nothing that says anyone must provide WiFi to anyone. Certainly nothing compelling a business to do so. Unless you mean a bunch of slackers using the shops electricity to power their laptops and occupying tables all the while ordering one cup of coffee.
Don't confuse cheap with being sensible. Maybe the shops don't want to deal with the expense and hassle of setting up WiFi. Sure, you could always offer to do it (you did offer your services to those cheapies, right? Right?) but they're the ones who will still be stuck with maintaining the system.
Just because you think a coffeeshop should be providing WiFi for your use doesn't mean they agree. You want access in a coffeeshop, go to someplace which offers it or start your own shop and offer WiFi.
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2)
Good God lad....LMFAO!
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2)
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2)
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:1)
The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!
Maybe the have-nots can charge tourists for wireless connectivity...
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2)
It's true, nothing much is different for these folks, except that now the voices are saying "Buy and Sell Spare Change on EBay".
Re:WiFi, not Cash (Score:2, Funny)
how long before lawsuits (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's just get this out of the way now (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Let's just get this out of the way now (Score:1)
Bridging the gap? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:5, Insightful)
A homeless man is another problem entirely. But for a poor person, all the sudden being able to use a cheap wifi connector and some knowhow to get internet for free instead of 45 a month will be a great boon.
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:2, Insightful)
* Other than "A Vote For Mayor Newsom is a Vote For Free Wifi!" posters at the local coffeehouse
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:3, Insightful)
Going to the library twice a week to check your email isn't the same thing as having a broadband 24/7 connection in your home. It's people who don't realize that who are holding the digital divide wide open, pushing with both arms.
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:2, Interesting)
Tomorrow on Slashdot: some people claim not to own televisions, have landline phones, or read newspapers! How can we let this injustice stand?!
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:3, Insightful)
This service wasn't available before. Now it will be.
Some people will take advantage - poor and non-poor alike. Those who are less poor will take more advantage, as usual.
Some people won't take advantage. Many will be poor, some will not.
So how does this make the whole project somehow a Bad Thing?
In other words, if you don't have utopia, don't do anything at all? Is that your argument?
As a guy who's been out sick for three weeks and can't make my current rent payment, while
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:2)
Who said 'vital expense'? I know people who think that $0/month is less of a financial hardship than $10/month.
"This service is going to be speed-limited and ad-supported -- how do you even know it's going to be "broadband" for free?"
Because I can RTFA, specifically the part that says the free access will operate at 300kbps, which is 6 times faster than dialup, doesn't tie up your
Re:Bridging the gap? (Score:3, Insightful)
If only the poor's problems stemmed from not having Internet access.
This is California. Initiatives like this are more about gaining status among the entitlement demographic than any genuine desire to address poverty.
Hopefully, quicker than Philadelphia (Score:2, Informative)
Philadelphia has been having a tough time finally getting its own initiative off the ground . . .
http://www.wirelessphiladelphia.org/ [wirelessphiladelphia.org]
I also look forward to seeing evidence that these initiatives are bridging the 'digital divide' in these cities.
Re:Hopefully, quicker than Philadelphia (Score:1)
Replacement? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Replacement? (Score:2)
Just out of curiosity, I went to NetZero's site...to see about 'free' dial up, in case I'm travelling somewhere and that would be only alternative.
I can't find on their site where the FREE accounts can be had....any ideas?
Re:Replacement? (Score:2)
According to the fine print, the NetZero free service is limited to 10 hours per household per month. Telephone tech support costs $2 per minute.
Re:Replacement? (Score:2)
Re:Replacement? (Score:2)
I wouldn't switch to the $20/month for my desktop because I get a full 1.5Mbps on my DSL, and the $20 only offers 1Mbps. However, once I get a laptop, I definitely would use the 300Kbps free service for email checking and surfing, and maybe the $20/month service for my PC tech support business - it will be nice being
Wifi for the poor... (Score:3, Insightful)
Chances are that no one will read this because I am languishing in Bad Karma Hell, but just wondering... why provide this great free WiFi in the name of the poor? Did someone miss the fact that you need a computer to get on the net? City wide WiFi is a great idea and all... but it helps the middle class more than anyone. Unless you bundle it with some kind of computer giveaway or those fabled $100 laptops, it's not going to be the 'great internet equalizer' or lead to any kind of social equity...
Re:Wifi for the poor... (Score:1)
It's not hard to buy a $100 computer. It's not going to be particular new or (in my opinion) particularly useable, but you can get one.
Just check craigslist or your local flea market or swap meet. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if computer donation charities get a growth spurt
because of this wifi program. Check out some links like
Re:Wifi for the poor... (Score:2)
Re:Wifi for the poor... (Score:2)
Re:Wifi for the poor... (Score:2)
Well, a dirt cheap computer is under $500 with everything they'd need. Dial-up ranges from $120 to $300 per year, and broadband starts at about $500 (at least around here). With free Internet access, someone could buy a computer and get on the Internet for about the cost of a year of broadband. Sounds like a good deal to me. The lower middle class and upper lower class will be
Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! (Score:2, Funny)
Is L. Ron invading San Francisco? [everything2.com]
Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! (Score:2, Interesting)
--Mike
Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! (Score:1)
Just a thought (Score:5, Funny)
disclaimer:
Yes, by hacking I mean using someone elses tools to break someones WEP or WPA-PSK encrypted network. Is there a word for script kiddying? skidding?
Great, more bad security. (Score:4, Informative)
So the problem is thus, people in my office, connected to our LAN are also connected to this wide open network where all sorts of bad things could be roaming free. Windows and MacOS both seem to automaticly connect to these rogue networks and thus bypass any local network security I can enforce.
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:2)
Huh?
MacOS can not find the preferred wireless network. Would you like to connect to "linksys"?
How is that automatically connecting to a rogue AP?
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:2)
go to your wireless icon (there are other ways to get where i'm going, this is the one i know): select view available wireless networks.
in 'related tasks' choose 'change advanced settings' (another way to get to this point, go to network connections, select your wireless network, right click and select properties).
Go to the wireless networks tab.
Click advanced.
Uncheck the box that says 'automatically connect to non-preferred networks'.
And be sure to remove any networks you don't want to connect t
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:2)
Am I the only one that sees the proliferation of WiFi as a major network security problem?
No. People who fear EM radiation causes cancer are also worried.
Someplace around my office has not just an open network, but an open intercontinental network. If I dont turn off the 802.11 function on my laptop I'll see computer systems in tokyo.
You automatically connect to wireless networks with your default setup? You have bigger problems than a city wi-fi program.
So the problem is thus, people in my office,
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:1)
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:1)
then on your router block access to the networks that are rogue (if they are routable) and then watch to see who is trying to send to them and go shut them down.
if you have a computer (windows and mac) with two interfaces and one is dhcp and gets a static routing table for all subnets to it's gateway then when something tr
Re:Great, more bad security. (Score:2)
Put machines that might have wifi on the far end of a DMZ. Wifi isn't magical. There's no hacking with wifi that you couldn't do with an ethernet cable.
Telcos will fight this tooth and nail (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Telcos will fight this tooth and nail (Score:1)
Not good news (Score:2, Insightful)
It would have been better to implement something like RoofNet, which is fully open source and runs on off-the-shelf components. It's high performance, well tested, and in use here in Cambridge. There will be some add-ons to it made by my company
Score another for L. Ron Hubbard (Score:1)
However...
Half of Hollywood already follows his UFO religion displayed by poster boy Tom Cruise. His Austrian convert is worming his way into more and more govenment workings. Now his followers are taking over the wireless waves. We really should have seen this coming.
I can't help but wo
Big names deep pockets etc. (Score:3, Interesting)
I put together the technical end of the first municiple mesh in the US using LocustWorld meshboxes. It happened only because I moved out of silicon valley to a small town with no municiple bureaucracy to schmooze up. There were just some folks who wanted wireless for tourists coming through their town and we even got it set up so the local ISP didn't get put out of business by the tax subsidy. They took some bids from guys that had no "pockets" or "marquee" at all, and got a solution. I look around at the solemn rhetoric about the wireless mesh in New Orleans subsequent to Katrina, and the rhetoric about rich and poor in San Francisco's wireless access and just thank my lucky stars I'm out here with a bunch of "inbred hicks who don't know what leading edge technology is."
Come to Berkeley! (Score:1)
Re:Come to Berkeley! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Come to Berkeley! (Score:2)
Missing The Point (Score:3, Insightful)
People can keep their Comcast or Verizon or whoever does their high-speed at home... but now your local municipality provides access to the sum total of the world's information wherever you want it. About damn time.
big shock (Score:2)
AOL (Score:1)
don't they already have it? (Score:2, Funny)
How the Bay Area works (Score:2)
San Francisco is a tourist attraction. No-one actually lives there or works there and no-one is going to use a wireless network there. Most of the population lives in the east bay and works in the south bay. That's where a wireless network would be most valuable, but saying you're inst
Have-nots must have (Score:1)
Of course, the have-nots are going to need to *have* a computer to make use of this technology. Most of the have-nots do not-have a computer, let alone a wireless laptop that tends to be more expensive than a desktop. I love when mayors pretend to bridge the gap, but instead grow the gap.
I Saw the Proposals... (Score:2)
Mmmm....ideologically conflicted (Score:2)
yarr, mateys (Score:2)
Does this mean they have been given Letters of Marque? [wikipedia.org]
Let the privateering begin!
2-Tier Pricing Can Be Profitable ... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Google, in Mountain View, intends to provide the free, so-called Wi-Fi access. The service it proposes would be faster than dial-up but slower than a typical broadband connection. In its joint bid, Earthlink plans to offer speedier access, but for a fee.
It looks like the entire scheme is a classic "the first dose is free but the good stuff'll cost ya" scheme. That's not necessarily a bad way to go, to implement a public good while preserving competitive incentives.
as if! (Score:1)
Re:as if! (Score:2)
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:1, Offtopic)
I'm anarcho-capitalist, so I firmly believe that no government is the best form of government that can exist. That being said, I am more against Federal and State governments taking charge for providing services for people, since it is much harder to vote with my feet and exit the bad services (and their costs).
Yet I also believe that individuals do have a right to select a government within small groups. San Fran is a large city, but I wouldn't live there myself. I think
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:4, Insightful)
And from the article:
Both companies would share the cost of installing the necessary equipment, estimated at up to $12 million. San Francisco will pay nothing and actually reap some fees by leasing city property as perches for Wi-Fi antennas.
We have 3 cheap WiFi providers in the area (very cheap), we have DSL and we have Cable, and now we have 2 more wired providers who are testing the waters. I see no reason to give free access on the taxpayer's backs.
See above. Also, most people don't have those options. Most people, have the access to cable modem, some have access to DSL or other methods. But in most of the country, many choices don't exist. Also, most of these services are available because the companies were allowed right-of-way access to install the infrastructure. Access mandated by, you guessed it, the government.
Since you are an "anarcho-capitalist" (does this mean that if your house is on fire you don't call and use the services of the fire department? If it snows, do you make sure not to drive on the roads that the gov't plows?) You should love this idea. It is capitalism at it's best, companies competing to provide a service to consumers, at no cost to the government, nor the user.
-dave
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
Nothing is free. If the city will be making money leasing to these two, why don't they lease to anyone who wants entry? Why does the city have to l
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
For the taxes I pay (more out of legal necessity), I find as many loopholes as possible for making sure I'm paying as little as possible.
The main road in my village is private and funded entirely
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
For banking, I don't. I DO have a paypal account, and I also have a green dot debit card that I only f
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
Back on the topic at hand: I too am wary of government money being spent in this way. But if the money is going to be spent, I'd rather it be spent to build the network that is the least offensive to my libertarian sensibilities as possible.
What we're calling, alternately, 'User-Driven Infrastructure Development' or 'Bring Your Own Router',
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
I used to consider myself Libertarian but the Libertarian Party proved to me that they're all about power in politics and libertarians in office are easily corrupted [unanimocracy.com]. Now I vote very differently [unanimocracy.com] and for different reasons.
I believe the right actions for someone are not to vote or change government but to make real changes in their own lives -- b
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:1)
I also don't want to move out of the US. I think when people say you should move if you don't like it are totally missing the point. This is my home and it's much better to stay and try to make things better.
So, I guess we should actually vote for every single tax increase
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
That's what I've been pondering. I won't vote or support any increase or decrease, any addition or subtraction, just for the simple fact that Congress doesn't read the bills it votes for, and often times the bills contain more pork barrel spending than "fixing" of problems. I just find ways to extricate myself from the dollar and government services, and I support lawsuits against government as
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:1)
They would probably send their security thugs after us and make our life generally difficult. Going bankrupt might be the most likely result. Even a billion dollars a year can't h
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:2)
Re:If the public wants Wifi... (Score:2)
I'm not saying free WiFi is socialism, but to say the public can't be allowed to have a referendum to pay for public works or elect representatives that cannot do what it wants is not a democracy (plain and simple).
Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... (Score:1, Interesting)
Win, win and win situation.
Did he actually say that? (Score:2)
RTFA please (Score:2)
From the first sentence:
(emphasis mine).
Further down in the article:
Re:RTFA please (Score:3, Funny)
Addresing the balance (Score:1)
Re:RTFA please (Score:1)
Re:so... (Score:2)
Re:so... (Score:2)
cheap rooter? (Score:1)
for $20 I would think you could get an ok net connection and a cheap rooter
Used to be you could get a cheap rooter for $20, but I think Sony quit selling them.
Re:cheap rooter? (Score:2)
Re:so... (Score:2)
Chances are, if you can't spring a measly $20/mo....you probably can't afford to have a computer in the first place. It might be best suggested for those in this category, to go hit the public library, and use the connections and equipment there free of charge....possibly helping them to attain more education, and sk
Re:Grilled Deviled Chickens with Sauce (Score:1)
~S
Re:Lucky! (Score:1)