Laptop Fuel Cells Coming Soon

tomsastroblog writes "Soon laptop batteries could last all day and be recharged from a cartridge. BBC News has a piece on fuel cells as laptop batteries, and what their adoption could mean for laptop usage." From the article: "At the Cebit technology fair in Hanover, Taiwanese hi-tech firm Antig said its fuel cells should be on the shelves of computer shops by early 2007. The first versions of the methanol-using units should keep a laptop going for up to nine hours. Fuel cell technology got a boost recently when international air flight regulators changed rules that banned passengers from carrying flammable methanol onto aircraft."

eheheh

[soapdog (773638)]

gives a whole new meaning to "this laptop is burning my legs..." sorry could not resist...

Re:eheheh

[LiquidMind (150126)]

just make sure you don't accidentally set your scrotum on fire [smh.com.au]

Price and Stocks

[komodo9 (577710)]

I especially like the ability for them to fit into existing laptops (in the media bay), rather than only working with new, specially-designed laptops. Overall it sounds great, however expensive. It'd probably be years before they can get the price down to a reasonable level. Either way, it might not be a bad idea to go invest in fuel cell stocks now. :)
--
BMW Forum [unitedbimmer.com]

Re:Price and Stocks

[mtenhagen (450608)]

Well methanol isnt that expensive. You will probably be sued if you start refilling cartridges but the methanol price is not the issue.

Europe (Valid through March 31, 2006)
European Posted Contract Price Euro 268/MT

North America (Valid through March 31, 2006)
Methanex Non-Discounted Reference Price USD 1.07/Gal* USD 356/MT

Asia Pacific (Valid through March 31, 2006)
Asian Posted

Convenience Really Counts

[BoRegardless (721219)]

Most laptop owners don't sit in a proverbial flower field and run their laptops.

Hence, what % of laptop owners would buy a new and no doubt very expensive methanol fuel cell module &, expensive methanol (prepackaged of course), and this assumes a properly package fuel cell module is available for your particular Laptop.

If it leaks and destroys your laptop is it covered by a warranty that replaces your laptop?

Lots of unanswered questions

Re:Convenience Really Counts

[Firehed (942385)]

The reason I'm selling my old laptop on eBay right now is that the battery life is horrid. Now of course 1.5 hours is on the low end of bad nowadays, but I'm really looking for something that should last for a full day of school. While I may not be in some field of flowers, longer battery life is a must for me. I'd say it's just as important as, if not more important than the price of the thing. I don't need a powerhouse (I've got my desktop for that) but being able to get some work done on the go is extremely important for me. I know there are some units available rated for six hours, but that's probably time spent just sitting at the desktop.... I need to at least be able to have a word processor or spreadsheet open. I'd imagine every other soon-to-be college student in the world is looking for that at the very least, not to mention most people that are looking for a laptop that's not to act as a DTR.

Most people wouldn't care whether it's a micro-fusion reactor in their laptop or a flock of nano-gerbils on micro-running-wheels as long as they get good life out of the thing. Well I suppose PETA would take some offense to the latter, but they don't need to know. Point being, for most people, having a laptop is all about mobility, and for the most part battery life is the main issue that comes into play, probably with network access coming in next.

I need a fuel cell powered laptop...

[Nova Express (100383)]

...to run my copy of Duke Nukem Forever. By my estimate, we've been hearing about the imminent arrival of each for about the same length of time...

You realize...

[Burning1 (204959)]

Laptop fuel cartrages mean new DRM and propriatary designs as well as messy (and dangerous) 3rd party refil kits.

Consumers aren't the only ones looking forward to this.

Re:You realize...

[LiquidCoooled (634315)]

Its the Gilette principle brought to computers.

Never before has anyone had to purchase daily consumables for their computer.

My bet, once these take off, they will be sold in the stores at the cig counters alongside the lighter fuel.

Re:You realize...

[pla (258480)]

Laptop fuel cartrages mean new DRM and propriatary designs as well as messy (and dangerous) 3rd party refil kits.

A lot of people keep saying this, but it just doesn't hold true!

First of all, methanol doesn't pose nearly the health risk most people believe. As someone with a solid non-practitioner background in both chemistry and pharmacology, I would play with methanol over toner or ink any day... Additionally, the breakdown products the the electrolyte in Li-ion batteries makes methanol exposure look like a cool drink of mountain water by comparison (for an idea, the most common counts as a chemical WMD in a different context).

Second, methanol doesn't pose nearly the fire/explosion risk most people believe. The Li-ion batteries we use now pose a FAR greater risk of explosion, and as for fire, if you take the same precautions you would when refueling your car (with yet another far more flamable/explosive liquid), you have nothing to worry about.

Third, refilling... Aside from the previously-mentioned toxicity of ink and toner, methanol evaporates cleanly. So if you spill a few drops, you can just let them evaporate rather than permanantly staining yourself, your table, your laptop, your carpet, your dog, and seemingly anything else even in sight of the ink refill kit.


The biggest complaint about the idea of using fuel cells over a rechargeable battery in laptops comes from the UPS-factor. Even an all-but-dead laptop battery will let it stay up (assuming you have it on AC) through a short power outage, or to move to another outlet, or to quickly reinsert the plug your cat pulled out, etc. Running on a fuel cell, all those advantages disappear unless you use the fuel cell as your primary power source, which could get expensive over time (despite methanol's low cost, AC power costs a hell of a lot less).

Laptop, not plugstop.

[miffo.swe (547642)]

Today most laptops are just dragged between electric outlets since they wont go for more than a couple of hours without recharging. Having nine hours worth of computer time changes the way you can use a laptop in a pretty significant way. From being used as a portable desktop you can use it as a really portable computer, taking it whereever you go without running amok for a piglets nose.

For me this is something i have longed for since the dawn of laptops.

Are fuel cells the right answer?

[jolyonr (560227)]

I was thinking before that I'd really love to be able to have a laptop with 9 hours of battery life - something I could use in the departure lounge waiting for my transatlantic flight (someone else always gets the seats near the power sockets before me) and then use on a 7hr flight without worrying about battery life.

That's why I got the IBM X41 - I have a 7 cell extra-life battery plugged into the back, and a second slim battery that plugs onto the base of the laptop. The two together give me between 7 and 10 hours of battery life, depending on what I'm doing (usually programming, so I'm not a 'power' user).

Buying the IBM was one of the best decisions I've ever made (no connection to the company, or to Levono who now own their PC business). After my recent flight from London Heathrow to Toronto I had 1.5hrs of battery life left on the machine when I shut it down as we were preparing to land.
 
So... this wasn't that expensive - the laptop and all batteries were less than 1000GBP including tax... is there really a genuine need for fuel cells?
 
Jolyon

More useful

[Epsillon (608775)]

IMHO, more useful than a Li-Ion replacement fuel-cell would be a fuel-cell powered universal PSU. Should be:

* No bigger than a mains PSU brick
* Easily replenishable whilst running
* Inexpensive
* Under ten dollars shipping on eBay

OK, that last was a wise crack, but let's sort out the machines that are out there first. After all, what's the point of having your Lappy 486's 41 pounds of allegedly portable dominance running for nine hours if you can't watch a DVD on the 'plane? (RTFA: Media bay, not battery slot)

Not just laptops, but cell phones too

[donutz (195717)]

There's a several-months-old PC World article that says that fuel cells for mobile phones will be arriving (in Japan) in 2007 [pcworld.com].

Sounds Dangerous

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

FTFA:

"There used to be restrictions on passengers to take methanol on flights," said Ms Tsai.

But, she explained, the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) recently changed its guidelines to allow passengers to take methanol cartridges with them when they travel.

From the MSDS for Methanol [bu.edu]:

Warning! Flammable liquid. May cause skin irritation. May cause central nervous system depression. May be absorbed through the skin. May cause kidney damage. May cause respiratory and digestive tract irritation. May be fatal or cause blindness if swallowed. May cause fetal effects. Causes severe eye irritation and possible injury. Target Organs: Kidneys, central nervous system, eyes.

It's a neurotoxin! It casues blindness! And it's highly flammable!

Sounds like a terrorist's dream.

Re:Sounds Dangerous

[Dunbal (464142)]

It's a neurotoxin! It casues blindness! And it's highly flammable!

Sounds like a terrorist's dream.

      These toxic effects take far to much time for it to be effective as a weapon. Plus you would need an incredible amount of it if you planned to kill people with an methanol aerosol. In fact ethanol (another neurotoxin you may be more familiar with) might be more effective for this. If you offer it free in a glass to most people, they will actually drink it!

Re:Sounds Dangerous

[fermion (181285)]

Other terrorist plots

• All agent fart on the plane at once
• Hit passengers over head with NiMH batteries.
• Bring the new Apple boom box on the plane and force everyone to jump to thier death by playing Celine Dion and Cher.
• Force passenders to watch a Adam Sandler Marathon on the flight from New Yok to Bejing.

Re:Sounds Dangerous

[pilkul (667659)]

That's nothing. The highly dangerous chemical Dihydrogen Monoxide has been allowed on aircraft for years, and calls for banning it have been summarily ignored. According to this essay at DHMO.org [dhmo.org], it is known to frequently cause severe burns, and inhaling it is often lethal. Its MSDS [dhmo.org] states it forms dangerous explosive gases if you only mix it with calcium carbide.

Now that's a terrorist's dream. Methanol is the least of our problems.

SmartFuelCell

[danimrich (584138)]

There is a German company (http://www.smartfuelcell.de/ [smartfuelcell.de] that is already producing fuel-cell powered generators for camping. I guess it won't take too long until they are small enough to fit in a laptop bag.

The big question!

[Jugalator (259273)]

The big question (for males) is obviously, would fuel cells increase or decrease the risks of burning the scrotum [msn.com] and penis [theregister.co.uk]? :-o

Re:dupe?!?!?!?!

[by Anonymous Coward]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/ 03/0134241 [slashdot.org]

Re:"flammable"

[eobanb (823187)]

Of course there is [reference.com].

Re:"flammable"

[licamell (778753)]

Not sure if this was meant to be a joke or not, but I'll bite...

Definition of inflammable [reference.com]:

1. Easily ignited and capable of burning rapidly; flammable.

2. Quickly or easily aroused to strong emotion; excitable.

Definition of flammable [reference.com]:

1. Easily ignited and capable of burning rapidly; inflammable.

Re:Hardware: Laptop Fuel Cells Coming Soon ...

[Concerned Onlooker (473481)]

I can understand your possible burnout on the topic, but I think that Slashdot is generally read by people who are interested in cutting edge tech. If the editors only posted articles about things that had already been produced then this would be nothing more than a consumer review site.

As for the "giant can of Zippo," yes, we would all like to have a fuel cell battery that lasts for a week and fits right into the old battery slot, but cut them a little slack. It's a new thing and it's bound to improve and the fact that there may be a laptop fuel cell at all in the near future is pretty interesting.

Cost + fuel medium

[DarkMan (32280)]

The reason fuel cells are much hyped, and preferred over batteries is that they use liquids to produce the electricity. This means that the size of the reaction interface is decoupled from the energy storage medium (whereas in a battery, they are intimately linked [normally]).

So, the size of the reaction interface determines the power that you can get out of the fuel cell, and the size of the energy reservoir determines how long it will last.

A laptop draws, what, 100 watts peak? A car with an 80 hp engine is at 60 kW - 600 times more. A fuel cell big enough to power that would be prohibitive in cost. Not to mention, the fuel cell will degrade with time - impurities in the fuel, and (if it's a polymer cell), degradation in the polymer itself.

Next point is the fuel medium. The energy density of methanol is less than gasoline, at about 22MJ/kg vs 45MJ/kg for gasoline. So, assuming comparable fuel efficency with the internal combustion + mechanical drive vs fuel cell + motors, you'd need twice as much fuel.

There are no good fuel cells that operate on gasoline - the more complex the hydrocarbon, the harder it is to build a fuel cell. Couple that with the way the sulpher tends to kill fuel cells, and it's not feasable (low sulpher gasoline is available - have you ever seen guarenteed no sulpher gasoline?)

So, it would cost more, and you'd only get half the distance on a single tank of methanol. Assuming that you can get the methanol. The whole fuel distribution problem is a seperate case.

All the numbers here are conservative - I'm sure my powerbook draws significantly less than 100W, 80 hp is at the low end for a car - I believe 100hp is more typical. The laptop fuel cells don't use pure methanol, it's methanol and water, further reducing the energy density.