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Chinese Huawei Takes on U.S. Telecom Market
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Apr 03, 2005 02:49 PM
from the thattawei dept.
from the thattawei dept.
ChipGuy writes "With funds on loan from the Chinese government, Chinese equipment giant, Huawei is undercutting big rivals like Cisco and Nortel, and is using money to buy its way into the U.S. market. Overseas in Europe and Asia it already has become a major force. There are parallels with auto industry and home appliances. It took a little while before prices became a determining factor and shifted growth away from North American vendors. Telecom will go through the same curve. Huawei is curently selling EVDO phones for about $130 and WCDMA phones about $250 which is about 30% than everyone else on the market. Huawei's agenda is pretty clear - get business and sales at any cost. And that means bad news for already struggling telecom industry."
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Chinese Huawei Takes on U.S. Telecom Market
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30% what? (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.goatse.cx/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 13, @10:12PM)
Its Cheeper! (Score:1, Insightful)
30%? (Score:4, Informative)
(http://people.chem.umass.edu/jhardy/)
30% of?
30% more?
30% crappier?
Come on!
Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org???? | Last Journal: Saturday August 12 2006, @03:06AM)
a) violating the WTO rules currently.
b) too addicted to Chinese money to fund Bush's spending splurge/tax cutting spree to really bring any meaningful grievances against China....
Am I the only one who sees how insane Bush's spending policies are? Maybe it's not the wisest idea to become dependant on a country whose primary objective seems to be to destroy us...but then again, this country did elect Bush...twice....
Re:If you are concerned about overspending... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is irrelevent if you think Bush spends less than would Kerry if Kerry would have a balanced budget.
The current deficits are >5% of GDP. This is insane. Compound that with the fact that no one saves any money in the US and you have a recipie for disaster.
Re:If you are concerned about overspending... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I borrow, then I'm spending someone else's money and my future income. But I can default on that loan!
This is NOT saving money. Savings are when you have a liquid asset like cash, gold, stocks, bonds. Property is not a liquid asset. And loans are liabilities, NOT savings!!
In other coutries, like Japan, people actually save money. It is not uncommon for people to buy a car with cash. Heck, people can buy a house with cash. That is saving money.
When Japan's economy tanked, the situation is not catastophic. All that happens is people can lose money (purchasing power) in the inflation period.
In the US, the opposite is true. People buy everything with loans. What is most dangerous are 90+% financing of homes. If the housing market collapses thanks to high inflation thanks to collapsing US dolar thanks to trade deficit (see how deficits hurt the economy?), the mortages will be worth more than the property!! This can be catasrophic (banks going bankrupt!) which will bring down the economy into a depression much, much worse than in the 1930s (back then people didn't borrow money like they do now so it wasn't that bad :)
If the US doesn't improve its deficit situation (trade and fiscal), this collapse of the US economy can happen sooner rather than later. As soon as banks around the world start dumping US$ in favour of the EUR.
Re:Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm amazed someone would think such a statement needs backing up.
Steel tariffs [bbc.co.uk], tax subsidies [bbc.co.uk], Gambling [theregister.co.uk], Cotton [tralac.org]. All kinds of stuff.
Clarification... (Score:4, Informative)
Did anyone read this as... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.nintendoplayers.com/)
zerg (Score:2)
(http://www.omletteso...hp3?who=Lord+Omlette)
Can anyone explain to me WHY? (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, pleas explaine WHY! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://nojailforpot.com/)
Re:Can anyone explain to me WHY? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.alterpersanium.com/pictures/main.php | Last Journal: Sunday July 15, @08:20PM)
Because American managers and CEOs are self-serving and would rather have a global playing field on which to profit instead of just the domestic market. You see they'd rather outsource their companies to save money, except for the management jobs. They get rich, most Americans suffer, and in the long run the country goes to hell becuase the school system falls apart.
Under the pure capitalism, there is no minimum wage, which does in fact mean that Nike and Levis can move their garment factories back here, and there's plenty of employment. But since the jobs pay 3rd world wages, the country becomes a third world nation where the middle class barely exists, the owners and managers live like kings, and everybody else takes it up the ass.
unprofessional, worthless blog (Score:2, Offtopic)
(http://projectx.gamerznet.com/)
Red menace! (Score:4, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 09, @10:43PM)
Damn communists! Undercutting big rivals, using money to buy their way into the U.S. market! Can't trust 'em!
Hey America (Score:1, Insightful)
Hey Corporate America: If America ceases to be the great land of opportunity as it once was, it is because you sold us out.
Huawei equipment is junk (Score:3, Informative)
At [carrier in S Asia] they failed for 3 weeks in a row to roll out one HLR only to barely succeed with thousands of CSR calls. But since they're cheap, the customer stuck with'm.
Can't wait for the junk to go turtle in the US.
China crash will be fun... (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2263.html [asianresearch.org]
Remember how the last Asian Crisis (tm) came about from lots of nonperforming loans of cheap money for phallic skyscrapers (among other things). Guess where the biggest concrete and steel dicks are these days? Shanghai, Chicom Hong Kong, and the coveted Taiwan ROC... I'm thinking Soros is chomping at the bit for the opportuninty to fuck China _and_ the US over in a spectacular fashion once the dike starts to crack...
Given that and recent reporting of labor shortages in Guangdong..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/international/a
The next few years should be interesting indeed.
At any rate, there's enough dollars in China to support an interesting shopping spree. I'm thinking they'll buy GM after they declare bankrupcy, and use those brands plus Chinese labor (and, hopefully, American labor after the UAW is destroyed by bankrupcy renegotiation) to enter the US auto market.
Old news... happening with Korea as well (Score:4, Interesting)
Hyundai is also doing a great job undercutting other auto compaines with surprisingly decent cars at excellent prices. 5 years ago I would never have considered owning a Hyundai, now I think they're just as good or better than some manufacturers.
If you don't think China already has a major stronghold on the US, you haven't been to a Wal-Mart lately. It's a global market, like it or not.
US Telecom's? (Score:5, Informative)
Ring My Bell (Score:4, Interesting)
- a competitor challenges them (offering new, better or cheaper services)
- They fail at getting government to subsidize them (they don't always fail though).
- They find that they can't negotiate or buy-off a limited truce with their new competitor.
At this point, if all of these money-backed attempts to ward off competition have failed they usually don't even bother looking internally at their own talent. They'll try buying up a third-party and use them as the signal that they're serious and starting to compete (whether they actually are or not).I'd prefer that my telecom bills weren't funnelling money out of the country to an internationally owned competitor. I'd prefer to support my friends who work as sysadmins of the local Bell's subcontracting agency (since being downsized from Bell employees). But my local Bell doesn't seem to even attempt to innovate unless it has a serious challenger. Despite the coming months of political dogma, I'm glad that a serious challenger is attempting to enter the American market.
Good news for consumers (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.goldmark.org/dodgson/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 05, @02:11PM)
Competition is good for consumers, and in the long run it is good for the industry as well. It's only bad news for the entrenched players.
If China wants to tax its citizens so that it can sell me cheap telecoms products, I'm not going to complain.
Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:2, Insightful)
(http://www.totallyfreestuff.com/)
China's ok...but Cuba's bad?
Re:Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.demaagd.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 27 2002, @06:53PM)
Communism as an economic system really hasn't worked out very often or very well on a national or global scale. China is now very capitalistic from an economic standpoint. China isn't refuting the arguments that communism's economics can't stand the test of time, I think they are proving that as they saw the need to shift.
Re:Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:5, Insightful)
i think this is a good thing. there are too many weird ideas floating around among different world populations. i hope having to deal with them will spread the idea of ethnorelativism around some.
also, regardless of your opinion of the government, there are still 1.3 billion people who shouldn't be excluded from the global dialogue. if you want to change the government, then find ways to increase financial stability, social mobility and general education.
"social entrepreneurship" is a good place to start -- C.K. Prahalad has some good articles and books on it from a macro level. There are also many sources for learning how to do it on a microlevel. northsouthdev.org is one micro-level institution in nigeria doing social entrepreneurship. it was started by a Brit with 50,000 dollars. It has helped something like 1000 nigerians contribute to the economy. Micro Financing Institutes like his help local entrepreneurs who don't have the collateral to go to a normal bank get loans to start businesses. He has had a 0% default rate on the loans and has made a lot of money helping people.
With financial stability, social mobility and quality education, change in the government can happen. If these "democratic norms" don't exist, any government that was more free would have a serious likelihood of collapse.
I spent seven years in China. It is a wonderful place. I don't approve of everything the Chinese government does, but I do think that they are managing the economy well. I think that China will become an increasingly free country over the next 45 years.
It is important to understand that different peoples want different types of lives. The Chinese don't dream of an American life. They would not want to obsess over politics as much. In fact, the interest in politics would be so low if there was a democractic government put in place now, it would collapse or be twice as corrupt for that lack of interest alone. That's one of the reasons why Russia's government has regressed. That's why a lot of new democracies regress. Without the democratic norms already being in place, democracy fails one way or another.
Foreign corp vs. outsourced US corps (Score:1, Insightful)
Wait until Indian software companies enter US mark (Score:1, Troll)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Huawei plans $100 m telecom plant in India (Score:1)
http://www.financialexpress.com/print.php?content
Dispicable Business practices by the Chinese. (Score:1)
I find that to be highly illegal but under this laissez-faire government , I don't expect any action.
China is already manipulating their currency and are engaging in UNFREE trade which is putting alot of people out of work.
We will wake up when they 'invade' Taiwan.
I, for one,... (Score:1)
Americans mad at the Chinese (Score:5, Insightful)
The best of luck to you, though. I have no wish to see the US come crashing down.
Congratulations (Score:2)
Reminiscent of Hynix? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, being a computer building geek at the time I had a lot of fun shoving enormous amounts of RAM in my system for under a hundred bucks. Maybe this whole Huawei thing will mean I can afford a good cell phone for less than $200 without signing up for some rediculously restrictive service plan.
!= bad news for ALL of the telecom industry (Score:4, Interesting)
In some ways this becomes a battle between the best interests of the infrastructure makers (a small segment) and the infrastructure users (all the rest of the economy).
The long-term impact is far less clear, however. The effect of cheap Chinese goods will depend on how the U.S. economy uses the less-costly telecom gear. If we only use it to download ring-tones while standing in the unemployment line, then it will be bad. But if businesses find growth-generating new innovations in business processes, services, and products that make use of cheap telecom infrastructure, then it will be a good thing.
Huawei = Thiefs (Score:1, Informative)
Between CHina, Al Qaeda, and GWB's Deficits... (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Friday December 01 2006, @10:51AM)
Didn't Huawei steal Cisco software? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Didn't Huawei steal Cisco software? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am surprised to see that Cisco settled with them in US court. I expect the company in question, which has phalanxes of lawyers on salary, won't roll over so easily when it comes to defending the domestic market.
price or quality? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought the problem with American cars in the 70s was quality, not (just) price.
anti dumping laws? (Score:2)
(http://techsutra.seo.iitm.ac.in/)
I hate Huawei (Score:2, Interesting)
(http://www.modemaztech.com.ar/)
as if (Score:2)
Struggling ??? (Score:2, Insightful)
look around you. everyone has wheels/multiple cell phones/flies everywhere for the holidays/etc/etc.
the problem is that even though everyone (almost) on this planet esposes global markets and free competition, if -their- company ends up on the short end of the stick (mainly due to the upper management of the worst run of these companies collecting millions in compensation for lackluster performace), they cry to the government for a bailout. fuck that.
half the telecom/auto/airlines NEED TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS, and let the better run companies in these markets take over. simple as that.
Great news! Chinese State subsidizes US economy (Score:2)
> Chinese equipment giant, [...] Huawei is
> curently selling EVDO phones for about $130 and
> WCDMA phones about $250 which is about 30% than
> everyone else on the market. [...] And that
> means bad news for already struggling telecom
> industry."
But *great* news for everyone who uses telecoms, since they're now able to buy formerly expensive kit at knock down prices, *subsidized by the Chinese State*.
If the Chinese State wants to pump money into the US economy, cool! all the companies who use telecoms (far, far more than those who provide telecomes) will have that much more money available to undertake work since they didn't have to spend it buying expensive telecoms kit - which means, over the whole of the economy, a whole bunch of new jobs.
--
Toby
Good timing. (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Tuesday October 16, @02:57AM)
Cisco and Nortel, at least, have enormous markets in optical data circuit stuff and TCP/IP routing equipment to fall back on.
SoupIsGood Food
AU market too (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=11321&he
Optus will be deplying ADSL 2+ (24/3.5mbps) in 300 exchanges. Nice to see that the Aussies have granted competitive access to their copper. Too bad the fuckwits in New Zealand can't follow a good example.
Let the China bashing begin (Score:2, Insightful)
Being appalled at censorship, for example, is a matter I agree with, as I suppose most visitors to this site are.
There are however comments such as these in this very thread
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1448
"...a country whose primary objective seems to be to destroy us..."
This is the most flagrant example of this bias, but it does not take much browsing at +3 or +4 to find more.
I will not waste my time refuting these silly, uninformed biases and comments. I just want to emphasize their existance for lurkers, whose knowledge may be shaped by such comments, and those who post, whose arrogance is reinforced by them. Arrogance (bias) is the end of wisdom.
Before you post such rubbish, please go read a variety of reliable and credible sources about the country. Then, you will actually be able to state something of substance, a more informed analysis or criticism. For those of you fond of bashing, this habit of having informed opinions will give you more weight to swing with.
-An American who is sometimes ashamed at his fellowes rash conclusions based on insufficient evidence. Ignorant arrogance like this, my friends, is not the way forward.
i use hauwei's oc-48 sonet platform. good stuff. (Score:2, Informative)
Hands down, Hauwei put them to shame. a 4U OC48 solution with the ability to take many different cards.
Now some people would say, heck, when you pull out a card, i actually droppped a packet. Well, they all did. Even the good old DDM-2000 OC3 dropped a packet on failover tests when yanking out a card to simulate it dieing.
my point i want to make, is that whiterock and luminous, both American companies offer pathetic products. pathetic, i mean it. Who wants an OC48 that can only have 3 DS3 ports? laugh. software updates that would choke while using the sonet dcc channel.
so before you laugh at Hauwei, best not until you use their gear. Because when your boss visits us down the street, showing off our 20,000 dollar OC48 solution, he will ask why did we pay 100,000 for nortel.
the chinese kid they sent to us was educated, polite, smart, and knowledgable about the gear. he spoke english just fine. Considering my boss is from Turkey, who am I to complain about proper english to him. It is a small world now. I welcome the diversity.
I cannot wait to take shipment of more Hauwei gear, so I can light up the fiber we leased. It will be really sweet when our backbone is up. TDM and ethernet. nice. OC192 upgrade path. nice.
so. any of you people pretending to be a network engineer like me? Life at a CLEC is strange.
Huawei-3Com Joint Venture (Score:1)
Who is eating who?
Ericsson! (Score:1)
(http://www.news24.co.za/ | Last Journal: Tuesday May 16 2006, @07:53AM)
fair competition... (Score:1)
(http://www.solidz.com/)
There is an old saying... (Score:2)
(http://nojailforpot.com/)
Re:There is an old saying (Score:2, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Friday November 02, @02:49PM)
And the capitalists gleefully sold the USSR rope by the shipload.
And the USSR, while prattling that old saying, hung itself.
And the capitalists laughed all the way to the bank.
Then they came back and sold the people of the FORMER USSR all SORTS of stuff.
And bought stuff from them too.
And are still laughing.
Right along with the people of the former USSR.