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ZigBee Pro, the New Home Automation Standard?
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon May 25, 2009 01:49 PM
from the now-if-only-they-all-worked-together dept.
from the now-if-only-they-all-worked-together dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Echelon, Microsoft, Intel, Sun and the Electronic Industries Alliance have been trying to create a home automation standard for two decades — to no avail. Now the ZigBee Alliance, proprietor of a low-rate two-way wireless mesh networking technology, says it will prevail. In six weeks, automation vendor Control4, which has about one million ZigBee nodes installed, will flip the switch on the new ZigBee Pro, which promises interoperability among light switches, thermostats, door locks, motorized shades, security systems, remote controls and some 36 million electric meters."
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Submission: ZigBee Pro: the New Home Automation Standard? by Anonymous Coward
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Creating A Problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
36 million electrical meters
Electrical meters are physical meters times velocity of propagation, right?
So, whats the conversion factor for electrical meters to imperial?
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
how to use less energy? Install 36 million electric meters! Wait...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I realize the attempt at humor, but they measure electrical usage, and the more a home owner is able to directly observe their electrical usage, the more ably they can reduce it.
I for one would love to see a manufacturer come out with wall outlets that have built in (toggling) LCD/LED power usage displays. Power strips with per-outlet usage information.
When users start seeing those "vampire devices" sit idle for hours on end, doing nothing except maybe keeping a few LEDs lit but still costing 5, 10, 20 watt
Re:Creating A Problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Excel here wanted to install a device that would allow them to shut down the air conditioner for up to 40 minutes at a time. I think the max limit was something like 4 times per day.
What were they willing to offer in return? $25. Not $25 PER BILL, just $25 ONCE.
Again, complete nonsense.
I'd like to use less power and home automation seems like a convenient way to achieve that. But there's no way in hell that I'm going to let my power company decide when I can use the electricity I'm paying for.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Only if an outside entity controls them. The people who owned the house my mother purchased had some deal where the electric company could install a box and turn off the water heater and AC during peak periods. It was supposed to be one then the other if the load wasn't tamed and there was supposed to be a discounted rate for doing it.
Instead, when you wanted hot water, there wasn't any if someone fucked up and did dishes, a load of laundry or something in the afternoon, and the AC would let the fan kick on
Re:Creating A Problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure you were going for +5 Funny, but somehow you wound up at Insightful instead.
To enlighten the mods a little: home automation is less about having to leave your couch to turn off the light than it is about giving your house the ability to control itself according to parameters that you specify.
These days, anyone can write a program that runs on their computer. Only a few of us so far can run a program that runs on our house.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
* Turn on the lights that shine on the driveway from my bedroom (or any other room) if a car drives up in the middle of the night
* Use far less copper wiring - imagine being able to wire all of your lights, fans, etc directly to the power source without having to first run to a wall switch.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Once she starts having the affair, wouldn't I want her to leave me? What am I missing here?
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My -- what a bunch of cold, unforgiving, and distrusting folks.
Re:Creating A Problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't important that I can control my lights from my desk rather than walking over to the switch. The important thing is the ability for your house to realize that you just went to work in your car and you therefore don't need your lights on, the air conditioner doesn't need to keep the house as cool, the TV should be off, the computer monitor should be off, etc.
Parent
I don't know about others... (Score:5, Insightful)
light switches, thermostats, door locks, motorized shades, security systems, remote controls and some 36 million electric meters.
But I'd really prefer if my locks remain off any kind of network and have my security system talk over good old-fashioned copper.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Copper, meet bump key. Oh, hello there interior of toppavak's home.
Locked doors only keep out undetermined attackers. Imagine if your lock could text/page/call/tweet you when it was busted open though. Now, even a determined attacker can be quickly stopped. Short of an armed guard, you can't prevent a determined attacker while you're away. But a determined and unskilled attacker could be stopped.
Re:I don't know about others... (Score:4, Informative)
But I'd really prefer if my locks remain off any kind of network and have my security system talk over good old-fashioned copper.
Then I learned about lock-picking and bump keys.
Here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_keys [wikipedia.org]
I'll use encryption on my doors the day it becomes cheap enough (and I become an owner). Anyway, all the burglars I have heard of do not use lock-picking but rather brute force...
Parent
Too little too late (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been hearing about ZigBee and Z-Wave for years. But if you look at what's out there available to you, it's crap. Poor selection, limited capability, and a high price.
Meanwhile, Smarthome and their INSTEON protocol have a broad selection of very powerful and flexible components, available today at a good price. For a DIY home-automation job, there's no contest.
Personally, I think INSTEON will become the de-facto standard that takes over from X-10. The others are just not competitive in the ways that matter.
I sound like a shill, I know. Sorry. I just like Smarthome stuff. But I wish they wouldn't embarrass me by hawking pseudo-science crap like electromagnetic water softeners.
Too expensive (Score:5, Informative)
I like the idea of home control, lights that turn on and off, and I've been doing it with X10 for about 20 years. But I realize it has problems, poor reliability, requires neutral in the switch box for most installations, switches and outlets that actually stop functioning after 2 years, limited availability, poor selection of switch types and colors, and extremely high prices.
So Insteon comes out and solves the first problem, and nothing else. Hey, dig that light switch for $45 plus shipping! (http://www.smarthome.com/2476S/SwitchLinc-Relay-INSTEON-Remote-Control-On-Off-Switch-Non-Dimming-White/p.aspx). A standard switch costs all of $1.
And ZigBee doesn't even have interoperability on it's side? And I'm guessing we're not going to see remote switches for $1. I'd even settle for $5-10. I'm guessing the switches will cost $70. It's like they aim at the high-end of the market to get a little traction, then settle comfortably into selling $45 light switches.
It's been many years, and I guess the market isn't there, because everything we have now is overpriced and underperforming.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Zigbee is the most popular wireless module for DIY products/projects like the Arduino [arduino.cc].
Current prices on sparkfun are $30 for an Arduino, and $25 for a wireless module. If the individual prices are that low, imagine how much markup companies like Insteon have? They're probably selling a $10 lightswitch for $45 plus shipping.
But Arduinos are great because you can reprogram them easily, on a whim, and they're powerful enough to control whatever the hell you want.
Oh, and a question (since I'm not actually into
Light dimmers use a Triac. (Score:3, Interesting)
A light dimmer uses a Triac [gsu.edu], a semiconductor device that can be turned on at some point during one half-cycle of alternating current. If it is turned on late, the light is dim. If it is turned on earlier, the light is brighter. When the alternating current [wikipedia.org] passes through zero voltage, the device turns itself off.
A Triac is a kind of Thyristor [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's easy to think this way until you've actually purchased INSTEON products, then you'll beg for just about anything else. I'm in the process of replacing my INSTEON crap right now.
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Yeah, from what I've heard, it has had its problems. Mechanical reliability problems with SwitchLinc switches, which I gather have been resolved. Firmware problems with some components, which I gather have been resolved.
And it's apparently quite difficult to configure complicated switching arrangements. But I figure an computer scientist/electrical engineer should be able to figure it out.
I admit, I've never actually bought any INSTEON yet, only X-10. But I looked at the other technologies, and just cou
You know what you doing (Score:3, Funny)
It's a good idea, but... (Score:2, Funny)
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How much will it cost? (Score:4, Insightful)
The main problem with advanced home automation is the cost, inoperability between brands (which works into the cost since you have to buy everything from the same company) and basic problems with those networks. They mostly work in the 2.4GHz band (where the average microwave oven and just about any wireless device operates) which causes random issues with connectivity and synchronization. And then they have the most awful interfaces to program it. They mostly work in Windows and crash at random are difficult to decipher and if you're lucky enough to get a web interface you're stuck with ActiveX controls. And then if you want to make it work with other things, there is no scripting language for it.
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Interoperability? http://www.knx.org/
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O.K., I have to ask ... (Score:5, Insightful)
lack of vision. (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who earns his money in industrial automation it amazes me how limited these home automation firms think. They want me to buy multiple sensors each with only one I/O point on them??? They want me to buy plastic toy-like stuff that breaks if you push the contact a few thousand times? And then there is the matter of future-proofing: in 5 years time nobody will be able to read the sensors anymore that you bought because "everybody" is on the new standard. What about spare parts for existing stuff, are they expecting me to rewire the house each time they come up with a new platform? Not a chance.
Then there is software: Windows XP, maybe with .net, was a valid choice for building the interface when the company designed it a few years ago but I expect my light switch to last at least 25 years.
These days you can run an oil refinery with a touch of a button and keep it running for 20 years with available spare parts. And you can get data in & out of that system in any format you want. Show me the same on a scaled down version for my home and I'll start installing it...
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So you want industrial grade products for your home? How many millions of dollars did you plan to spend?
Re:lack of vision. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not industrial grade, a bit scaled down for home use. But it has to last much longer than an average personal computer. I expect my fridge to last 15 years, the water boiler at least 20, the wall sockets and wiring in the house will probably last 50 years.
Right now 99% of all home automation equipment are gadgets. Yes they do work for the first 1 or 2 years, but after that? Who knows...
And then you are stuck with a not-quite working semi-autonomous robot house that will make bad decisions based on wrong sensor inputs. And there are enough bad Hollywood movies on that subject already.
Parent
Re:lack of vision. (Score:4, Insightful)
We're aiming for somewhere in the middle.
Parent
Impartial observer, huh? (Score:2)
Gee, I wonder who cuts paychecks for the "anonymous reader"?
Standards aren't really standards at all if they're simply rammed down the throats of consumers by a dominant entity, whether that entity is Microsoft or ZigBee.
Echelon? (Score:2)
Who'd think a signals intelligence analysis network can help in home automation? Pretty revolutionary thinking. It didn't occur to me.
Not particularly interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
I've invested in relays and dimmers from National Control Devices [controlanything.com] and have run Cat 5e all over my apartment, even into my light switches and where I expect to put sensors in the future. It's hard-wired, hence secure and safe from interference, and speaks via simple ASCII to a serial port which available on nearly any embedded controller. The great thing about serial is that you can add a dirt cheap serial-usb or serial-ethernet interface.
I'm not really interested in a proprietary interface like Zigbee. What is needed is a HA API. That way you can write a driver for all the proprietary protocols such as this, as well as things like ProXR, Dallas 1-wire, DMX, and many more.
Some ideas for a back-end to the API can be taken from the aging Perl app Mister House [sourceforge.net]. What would then be a REALLY nice addition is a MythTV module front-end so you can control the whole house via your television.
Phillip.
There are reasons X-10 hasn't gone away (Score:4, Interesting)
The nice thing about X-10 is that the protocol is simple and there are lots of devices that work with it, most of which are relatively inexpensive. It's also friendly to the home hobbyist, and the hacker, since you can buy interfaces that will hook up to your PC via a serial port and write your own scripts, or download free software like Misterhouse.
If I can't turn my outside lights on at sunset via a script, then turn that script into a cron job, don't even talk to me about it. I'll write the interface myself, just give me a clean API I can code to.
We hate it when Microsoft or Apple take the attitude of "No, we won't open up our API and play nice with the open source crowd. At best we will make you join our developer program and sign an NDA. At worst we won't talk to you at all."
When the home automation vendors do it, they're no better. They don't deserve our respect or our help.
Not "new" (Score:4, Informative)
The chips are known as XBee, the protocol is zigbee. They promise long battery life - probably true if you run off a car battery ! Try running them off AAs or PP3. You need at least 2500MaH to last a few days if they are set up to listen for data. And that includes power saving produced by hacks. Transmit I can make last for 1.5 months, if it is intermittent (ie, on an alarm condition), but the receive always has to be ready, hence the high power requirement.
Control4 (Score:2)
Next: ZigBee Home Personal (Score:3, Funny)
Add personal vibrators (you know what I mean) to the list and we'll have a winner...
Radio waves (Score:2)
Home automation, and especially security, is not something I would want to put on radio waves. That makes it way too open to a denial of service attack. The electrical parts needed to build a device to trash the 2.4 GHz band are readily available (e.g. no security checks to buy a microwave oven) so a person competent in electronics could easily build something that can jam 2.4 GHz.
I do have a home LAN on 2.4 GHz for convenience. But I've also tested most of it directly connected in case that is needed.
Re
It is pitch black, you are about (click) (Score:2)
Oh dear.. (Score:2)
>ZigBee Pro, which promises interoperability among light switches, thermostats, door locks, motorized shades, security systems, remote controls and some 36 million electric meters
Now how could that *possibly* go wrong :o)
IAAZP (Score:5, Informative)
I Am A Zigbee Programmer.
Some of the points being raised are a bit.. underinformed.
Interoperability: the Zigbee Cluster Library includes standard APIs for many kinds of devices, including lightswitches, HVAC, home security, etc. Devices that are certified to conform to the specification are fully interoperable. The Zigbee APIs are publicly available at zigbee.org.
Battery life: battery powered devices may last for several years if they "sleep" between transmissions. Their "parent" node in the network stores messages destined for the sleeping node. These so-called "sleepy" nodes cannot route for other nodes though, so if you have a physically large network, you'll probably want some non-sleepy devices in there running on building power. This is one of the most important features of Zigbee, and in spite of some of the other commenters here, this is actually real.
Price: this is the key reason why Zigbee will succeed: it is cheaper to retrofit a building with Zigbee devices than to knock out walls and run new wires. It's far more expensive than installing tradition switches in a new building, but that's not the a "use case." My company's clients are all looking at retrofitting HVAC systems on existing buildings and are finding some decent cost savings.
Interference: Zigbee does use the 2.4 GHz band as a lot of other devices, but there are various mechanisms (link-level acks and retries, and some other things I don't understand) built into Zigbee to mitigate this. In our tests, interference has not been an issue. Metal objects such as doors and filing cabinets have been a much bigger problem in our tests.
- Dave
Why ZigBee will win. (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of commenters here seem to be comparing the various features of competing home automation technologies, which is certainly appropriate, but you also have to look at the bigger, future picture.
ZigBee - and specifically the ZigBee Smart Energy profile is becoming the standard of choice for in-home networks that will exist on the Smart Grid.
So it's one thing to compare ZigBee to Z-wave or X10 on a merits basis (though I believe it's far superior based on years of real-world experience), but when you consider your utility is going to put a ZigBee Smart Energy enabled meter/gateway in your house, and that hundreds of OEMs are going to be integrating it into wide variety of appliances that can hop on that network, you're going to see drastic reductions in cost, and increases in choice and quality.
In a few years, there might be a handful of WiFi or Z-Wave thermostats (or pool pumps, or light switches), but there will be dozens of ZigBee ones, because the installed user base will be there.
Now, Control4 is talking about ZigBee Pro and the Home Automation profile, which isn't technically part of the Smart Energy profile, but they can coexist, and many developers of Smart Energy products/solutions - including ourselves - have implemented both, opening up the HAN (home area network) to a variety of devices and controls.
IPv6 (6lowpan) replaces zigbee (Score:3, Informative)
zigbee was fine in certain circumstances, but has largely been superceded by IPv6 over Low power WPAN aka 6lowpan [ietf.org] Two major advantages of 6lowpan are that it is more or less regular Internet (TCP/IP) the other is that, as a result, more secure and almost infinitely more scalable.
Additionally, zigbee is not a standard, 6lowpan is. That difference has important repercussions for long term planning of projects. The IETF has a good track record for standard maintenance. There are also GPL tools for 6lowpan devices [sourceforge.net].
6lowpan is more flexible [ecnmag.com]. Unlike zigbee, which is fine in some contexts, 6lowpan works with a variety of wired and wireless, low-power, low-bitrate transmissions.
The Internet is where things happen nowadays. 6lowpan is part of that.
Re: (Score:2)
The "extra copper" isn't the problem, it's getting the copper to the right spot in the wall. It fails the geeky-fun test when the drywall tools come out (and stay out for days.)
Re: (Score:2)
So why not make your own? Put the appropriate open licensing on it (GDL?). Publish it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Zigbee is a mesh networking protocol that runs on top of the 802.15.4 standard. Not an improvement, a higher level protocol. As you point out, there are better, freer, alternatives. Zigbee itself is actually quite expensive.