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First Android/ARM Netbook To Cost $250, Maker Says
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Apr 25, 2009 02:18 PM
from the little-big-boy dept.
from the little-big-boy dept.
ericatcw writes "There was a flurry of excitement earlier this week when the first Google Android netbook, the Skytone Alpha 680, was spotted by Slashdotters. Now, Computerworld has scored an exclusive interview with Skytone's co-founder. Among many tidbits, he reveals that the Alpha 680 builds upon the success of last year's $180 Alpha 400, which shipped 100,000 units, mostly in Europe under names such as Elonex OneT; that the new Alpha 680 will weigh 1.5 pounds, 25% less than the first Eee 701 netbook; that its ARM11 chip (basically the same as the one used in the iPhone) can handle YouTube video; and that he hopes to have Chinese manufacturing partners producing the $250 Alpha 680 within 3 months."
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Mobile: First Android-Based Netbook, Set-Top Box 114 comments
An anonymous reader writes "China based Skytone famous for making skype headsets have brought out a $100 device, the Alpha-680 netbook running Google Android for its OS. The device has Wi-Fi, Ethernet, USB ports and an SD card slot. After watching the video though, I get a feeling that the boot time is somewhat long. IMO good enough for browsing." Also on the Android front, ruphus13 points out what the maker claims is the first "fully realized" non-mobile Android device (though I think there were some other non-mobile gadgets on diplay at CES), a set-top box from Motorola based on Android. According to the linked post, it's "capable of playing DVDs and CDs, transferring music and video to a mobile device, and ripping and storing files" and "will have a full-featured Chrome-like browser."
[+]
Linux: Novell and Intel Team Up For Moblin On Netbooks 29 comments
ruphus13 writes "The Mobile and Netbook space already has several Open Source OS providers. Android has been making its way into netbooks, and Moblin, LiMo and Ubuntu are also alternatives for OSes on netbooks and mobile handhelds. Now, Novell has also joined the fray, but rather than porting openSuSE, they have teamed up with Intel to get OEMs to use Moblin for their mobile devices. From the article: 'With the other tools and benefits that Moblin offers OEMs and developers, it's really a rather smart approach that could potentially yield a better netbook experience (for developers and consumers), maximize development resources, and produce quality software in minimal time. I don't think Novell is eschewing SUSE, but in its current form, it's not as suited for netbooks as it is systems like the HP ProBooks. Paired with Moblin's netbook-centric bent and coming from a desktop/server market (rather than a true mobile device background), bringing a SUSE/Moblin system to netbooks has as much potential (if not more) for success as an Android adaptation does.'"
[+]
Mobile: ARM Stealthily Rising As a Low-End Contender 285 comments
snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Neil McAllister examines how the ongoing rise of netbooks, decline of desktops, and the smartphone explosion are reconfiguring the processor market, putting Intel's Atom processor on a clear collision course with ARM. And here, on the low end of computing, Intel may have finally met its match. Thanks to a unique licensing model, ARM will ship an estimated 90 chips per second this year, and the catalog of OSes and apps available for ARM has been growing for decades, including several complete Linux distributions such as Google's Android OS and Chrome OS when it ships. 'One thing ARM doesn't have, however, is Windows,' McAllister writes, something that could ultimately stymie ARM's plans to compete on the low end of the netbook market. And yet Intel's bet on Windows and its x86 compatibility appeal among developers could backfire, McAllister writes. In the end, it's all about performance. Thus far, Intel has yet to demonstrate a model with power characteristics comparable to those of the current generation of ARM chips, which are fast proving their ability to handle high-performance applications."
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Looks cool, however it is too pricey. (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, not actually Rule the world but sell a shed load
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well, not actually Rule the world but sell a shed load :-).
What color shed? [wikipedia.org]
But can it run ... (Score:2)
Mac OS X ?
Most of the of the Atom based NetBooks run Leopard quite well. Not perfectly but well enough to be used as cheap MacBook Air alternative.
I know the answer is 'No', MacOS X is x86 only these days with the PPC line being almost obsolete.
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In all honesty, it could be a fun project to try and hack iPhone OS or whatever they call it onto one of these.
To the best of my knowledge the iPhone and iPod Touch are ARM-based.
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iPhone OS is OS X with Apple engineers rm -rf 'ed some parts, a lot of them. Eventually, they will merge to a single OS but it is a bit needless to spare time. Nokia on the other hand, compiled Symbian Foundation OS and have run it on a netbook. Is it interesting technologically? Yes... But still needless :)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I watch Apple cleaning up resources (languages), releasing single architecture OS (Snow Leopard) and there are some reports of massively shrink Mail.app etc. in OS betas. As they (and you) sure know there is ZERO performance enhancement of cleaning languages, removing architectures whatever windows switchers may think :)... I mean, Apple seems to do a huge spring cleaning lately.
I don't say they will put plain OS X to a phone, it will be still modified of course... At the core level though, Developers may s
Re: (Score:2)
I watch Apple cleaning up resources (languages), releasing single architecture OS (Snow Leopard) and there are some reports of massively shrink Mail.app etc. in OS betas. As they (and you) sure know there is ZERO performance enhancement of cleaning languages, removing architectures whatever windows switchers may think :)... I mean, Apple seems to do a huge spring cleaning lately.
Well, perhaps there are no direct performance improvements, but there are huge gains in support time, testing time, developer time, and disk space in trimming down the APIs and architectures supported. It makes a lot of sense and the only reason not to do it is that third party software houses hate it, because it means more work for them. For Apple it has a lot of upsides and only one downside (a bit of time spent deciding what to cut).
At the core level though, Developers may see something like "really stripped down OS X but still OS X", something they can use exact same core and just have to write different GUI.
Presumably you haven't looked in depth at the iPhone SDK, as this is exa
Re: (Score:2)
So the problem lies with Mac OS X not supporting as many architectures are Linux or Windows Mobile? Complain to Apple, not Slashdot about that.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny is people missing the fact that Apple themselves choose not to support the hardware, OS X code is massively portable, the sub-system sharing the same roots does run on Windows/Linux right now as GNUStep.
Apple could release a "OS X on mysterious x86 killer CPU" as early as next month and I wouldn't be surprised at all. Sadly, for political/financial reasons, it wouldn't happen but still, they can do it.
Hopefully people will just see this fact, I mean what OS X really is. It is not just Cocoa on FreeBSD
Re: (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I'm trilled that a Unix has gone mainstream, in no small part due to Apple. I just think, and history tends to agree with me, that Apple can't be prodded to support hardware that they didn't produce themselves. Nor do they create hardware until they are good and ready to come up with some sort of Apple angle to selling it.
Real victim is OS X Server (Score:2)
I wondered around in XServe/OSX server sites and could download/run some of client apps and I felt sorry for the server line. It is the first "server" anyone can really manage, almost like a "toy" but a serious Unix server at core level.
Why wouldn't companies adopt it except Mac only ones? It is tied to hardware, even Mainframe users doesn't like such thing and they choose J2EE because of it.
Besides the client, it is the saddest part of OS X is the server variant. For one second, you think like "Well, let t
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What architecture are you missing in this case ? The iPhone has the same CPU as the ARM-netbooks.
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Ah yes the heresy of 'complaining' (he wasn't really) about Apple on slashdot. We can complain about M$ of SCO or IBM or Oracle or [fill in the blank]...but heaven FORBID anyone say anything negative about Apple.
Love my G1, not sure about a netbook (Score:5, Insightful)
I love my G1 and go over 5GB a month on T-Mobile's 3G plan. It works very well in most cities I visit. It makes me MUCH more productive and saves me a ton of time and even money (ShopSavvy actually saved me about $300 last month!).
I also have an Acer Aspire One netbook (paid $170 for it new by luck) and I love it, too. I rigged an AT&T 3G card into it, and it works just fine with XP. Monitor resolution is a bit off for some sites, but it handles everything great -- and I love the extended battery life.
An Android netbook? I'd buy one, only to try to get more developers to make apps I really need and can use. If Google can make Google Docs work on an Android netbook, I'd buy 8 (two for me, and 6 for the rest of my staff who can use them). I don't need much more than Google Apps right now (we use many apps daily). The downside of the G1 is the lack of Google Docs working properly (you can view, you can't edit).
I see no purpose to use XP/Mac very much. I hate Apple, but I was a huge Newton MessagePad fan, and I would consider a huge iPhone -- if I had a big enough screen and a stylus. Somehow, I doubt it will. I prefer my G1 touchscreen to my iPhone (unused now) screen. I also _need_ the built in keyboard.
I wonder if some netbooks will have the option to use a Bluetooth headset to make phone calls (via GSM or VoIP)?
Netbook + eBook reader (Score:2)
If the display has the right capabilities, this could be a bargain: Laptop + mobile email + Skype VOIP + eBook reader.
It's high time someone put out a netbook with a really high resolution display with reflective mode, like the one on the original OLPC.
Put Android on one with a bundle for 3G, and this could be the poor man's iPhone/Macbook Air. Where the rich man would have the two devices (iPhone and Air) the frugal one would have one device intermediate in size between the two, but capable of covering (s
Touch Book (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I use the same Motorola bluetooth ear borg piece for Skype on my PowerBook as I do with my iPhone. Works fine. Now if Skype Mobile on my iPhone could use the headset I'd be ready to go.
I was looking at noise cancelling head phones for Skype and good wired set of headphones was $60. (Or the only ones not sold out at the store I was looking at) I had put off getting one of those borgish ear pieces, but if I was going to spend the money, why not spend $80, get a good Bluetooth one that I could use with bot
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I wonder if some netbooks will have the option to use a Bluetooth headset to make phone calls (via GSM or VoIP)?
only the ones with usb sockets :)
certainly with linux netbooks there is a full bluetooth stack, ekiga is a voip application or there is skype as well (really not that great compared to a good voip app to be honest).
Technically theres no reason why you couldnt be using 3g or Hspda for voip except the mobile service providers make a lot more selling you voice calls and texts and will try to prevent you doing this.
with wifi and ethernet there is nothing stopping you at all.
It's really quite crazy that people a
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Skype on ARM?
Re: (Score:2)
I think the bigger issue here is:
phone calls (via GSM or VoIP)
Why bother with a separate cell phone when you're by your netbook all the time, be it on your desk or in a carrying case or backpack?
Yes, you could use Skype-Out or any of its competitor, but if you can tether 3G to your laptop over a phone, why not use voice through what is basically a microphone-less and speaker-less mobile? The network allows it, BTW. Stick the SIM card from your aircard into a phone, and enjoy overage charges on any voice minutes you use.
Also, since he
Skype so far only provide binaries for intel based (Score:3, Informative)
Skype so far does not support anything but 32 bit Intel based linux distributions. This is one of those things again where you want a open source alternative.
Adobe flash have the same problem - I cannot run neither Skype or Adobe flash on my ppc based mac mini running Ubuntu 9.04. That said, flash work fine for Youtube using Gnash/Gstreamer or Swfdec. But these does not support the full Flash 9/10 functionality... Youtube works apparently flawlessly, but other sites may not work as well. Netbook providers w
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
> Skype so far does not support anything but 32 bit Intel based linux distributions.
Skype already supports the Nokia Maemo platform. Maemo is Linux with a mutant Gtk/GNOME stack. So if there is a major OEM wanting Skype on a Linux/ARM based netbook it will be there.
> Adobe flash have the same problem - I cannot run neither Skype or Adobe flash on my ppc based mac
Adobe doesn't care about PPC anymore but they care about ARM. They have a full Flash solution for Linux/ARM, again probably because Nokia
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So. how long does your netbook battery last?
The return of the Thinkpad Z50? (Score:2)
I came across this article at Windows for Devices earlier today: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:PKmZMViNa2MJ:www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS9375883682.html+thinkpad+arm+netbook&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us [74.125.93.132]
Lenovo? Considering a Thinkpad Netbook? I'm typing this on a Thinkpad X40 running Debian; 2.4 lbs of full size keys goodness. I won't consider another machine without its keyboard or Trackpoint. But I can only drool at the thought of am X series type Thinkpad with and ARM based CPU and
Re: (Score:2)
I love the trackpoint (AKA "clit"). One of the most practical inventions in computer input devices.
Also, I'm quite fond of clits, as well, to be honest.
I dream not of a netbook... (Score:5, Interesting)
... nor of a notebook.
What I would like to see is a laptop with whatever the most powerful ARM processor is, a power efficient discrete GPU (ala the iPhone/iTouch), a 120 gig OCZ vertex, a 10" OLED screen, and a built in 3G dongle, all running on the recently ported to ARM Ubuntu 9.04.
Something that I can use as a "real" laptop, not one of those tiny 4" abominations with squeezed keyboard thats hard for anyone but children to type on. However I don't want it to be my workhorse machine. I can build a desktop for 1k with enough processing power to hack the matrix. I can build a laptop for 3k that would be roughly equal. I don't want that. I want something that will last 300+ hours asleep and get 24 hours of web browsing out in the middle of nowhere (assuming I have a cell signal). I want something I can keep a bunch of movies or tv seasons and my music library on, not something with an anemic SDHC card that I have to switch out everytime I want to watch something new. Something I can play simple games on for the duration of my 12 hour flight to wherever without having to plug myself in the whole time.
THAT i would LOVE to drop 1k++ on. Netbooks/notebooks now can have that in processing power but are not nearly there in power efficiency. Realize the ARM/power efficiency revolution is coming in relation to MID's, gimme some quality linux ARM ports, and enjoy watching me stumble over myself while I throw money at your products.
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wait til a high-end tegra comes out then....
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Good luck getting linux running on that nVidia hardware.
whats wrong with a thinkpad? (Score:2)
Their ultramobiles are small and powerful and expensive (with relatively long battery life).
Browsing the web on an ARM is a bit of slow going.
I look forward to the new ARM netbooks and their reviews. The low cost is really half the point though.
Re: (Score:2)
The Pandora [openpandora.org] has some of what you desire.
It's got a powerful Arm Cortex-A8 with an efficient GPU, faster than the iPhone one. No SSD, but it has dual-SDHC, giving you up to 64GB of space.
Only a 4.3 "anemic" LCD, but it is high resolution(fine for webpages) and high quality(it was selected because there was no OLED equivalent as far as resolution, power consumption, lifespan, etc.) An OLED would still be superior in direct sunlight, but I think they made a good choice. It's also has a touchscreen, though admi
I don't get it (Score:2)
As far as I understand, purpose of a Netbook is having Windows or Linux with a huge set of software selection/support (thanks to x86) instead of a Smart device.
Nokia and ARM are doing some similar mistake too. When you have a netbook, you expect _complete_ set of selection/possibilities, same as a PC but you just gotta be sane when selecting your options.
I own a Nokia 9300 (current upgrade is E90) and it runs Symbian which runs perfectly for my needs. Why should I want Linux on it? Why wouldn't I have a x86
Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Informative)
As far as I understand, purpose of a Netbook is having Windows or Linux with a huge set of software selection/support (thanks to x86) instead of a Smart device.
This really only applies to Windows. The huge selection of Linux software is open source. Opera is the odd one out, being closed source for Linux.
I'm running Linux on x86, x86-64, PPC and ARM, and thanks to open source I can run pretty much any software I want on any of these platforms. I'm running the same things on embedded appliances, desktops/laptops and supercomputers. Of course, some things are not practical on the embedded ones. But this just means I can choose the platform on actual technical merits like memory and CPU speed, rather than the availability of closed binaries.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as I understand, purpose of a Netbook is having Windows or Linux with a huge set of software selection/support (thanks to x86) instead of a Smart device.
Actually, that's exactly NOT the purpose of a netbook. A netbook (as its name implies) is suited for browsing the net and doing the occasional wordprocessing and perhaps even spreadsheet. Skype and some IM software, and a few games - but that's it for a netbook. Noone expects more from it. So, the Linux for ARM apps available are more than sufficient for the kind of use-case that a netbook is targeting.
By the way, the Nokia 9300 is a very nice smartphone! I'm a big fan of it - the later devices have, sadly
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Yes but remember, Skype does code the very same client (or a bit stripped) for Netbook. They don't need to do anything except coding a light client, it is still x86/Windows or Linux/Qt , whatever they use.
You seem like knowing the Symbian scene. There is _still_ no official Symbian S60 client for Skype. Fring and some others became de-facto standard. Skype releasing this fast for iPhone also shows the Apple's excellence in developer relations and perhaps XCode's easiness. Still using Skype as example, I wil
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Well, a Linux based netbook running on ARM would have 99% of the same applications as an x86 one, since open source apps can (and usually already have) be recompiled to run on any cpu linux can run on.
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Dear AC, if you give up flame mode and try to understand my concern, I am meaning exactly that.
Why beg to Adobe for "Android Flash" while a perfectly supported x86/Linux latest version exists? Why travel back 10 years? Because some Google execs are bored and wants to show off in expense of wasted image of whatever tech they use?
It misses the target somewhat (Score:2)
While I won't dismiss this product offhand (the low weight and low power consumption are two very good features), I feel that US$250 is just a bit too much for this product, and will cause it's doom. The only people that I predict will go for it, are the same that bought its predecessor, and only a subset of that group, at that. That's way too few to guarantee the viability of this ARM-based notebook.
I just hope other potential manufacturers of ARM-based notebooks won't be discouraged by the upcoming debacl
Look at the specs, people. This ain't a netbook. (Score:2)
128MB RAM, 1GB solid state. 7" 800 x 480 533 MHz. How that qualifies as a netbook, I'm totally mystified...
"Internet appliance" springs to mind. Its closest competitor is Nokia's N810 Internet Tablet. The main difference is replacing Maemo with Android.
sub-par specs (Score:2)
"The Alpha 680 will have a 7-inch LCD screen at 800 x 480 pixels, 128 MB of DDR2 RAM"
I would love to have an ARM-based netbook for my programming work (mostly Python/Django under emacs) with the added geek-bonus of being Windows-proof, but, while a 600x1024 screen is a bare minimum, the lower-end 480x800 is absolutely useless. It's just an oversized iPod with a keyboard and without Apple's aura.
Get me an ARM-based netbook with 768x1300+ screen (if using PixelQi's tech, better), 2 gigs of RAM plus a real har
What caught my attention in TFA (Score:2)
"The Alpha 300 is a $99 net-top PC that is half the size of the 680 and meant to be connected to a television set. It also runs a MIPS processor, a low-cost, low-power chip similar to ARM. Wu envisions the Alpha 300 being used at home by users who would control the 300 with a TV remote control and use it to surf the Web during commercial breaks. "
Now if you included an option for a wireless keyboard you might have something.
Comparisons (Score:2)
They're talking 922 grams, "7-inch LCD screen at 800 x 480 pixels, 128 MB of DDR2 RAM (expandable to 256 MB, a 1 GB solid-state disk drive (expandable to 4 GB)" and a "2-cell battery will last between two and four hours" for $250.
I can at this moment get a Vostro A90 for $250, 1070 grams, with 8.9-inch 1024 x 600 screen, 1 GB RAM, 16 GB hard drive, a four-cell battery with the same 2-to-4-hour battery life, running a full Linux distro.
That's a lot of capability to lose for less than a third of a pound in we
Re: (Score:2)
What you are missing is that Android is "linux-based", not linux and it's on a new chip; either of these mean apps have to be ported.
On the other hand, thanks to their population, the Chinese have more super-programmers than America has programmers. We should see the apps coming at a high rate of knots.
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At that point you might as well wipe it and install Ubuntu. Which you can probably do fairly easily.
Re:Why would I want android on a PC? (Score:5, Interesting)
Could one just slap Debian ARM on this instead?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
> Could one just slap Debian ARM on this instead?
Android is being hyped because Linux is for icky nerds while Android is full of Google VC Attractibg Goodness! Seriously, go look at Skytone's webpage and you will find a model 680 with Android and a model 600 with Linux with little other difference. Both models even have the swivel display.
Again, these are still vaporware at the moment and one or both versions could get axed before actual delivery begins. With luck though, by the end of the year all of
Apples and Oranges (Score:3, Insightful)
A netbook is whatever marketing/journalists decide to call it any given week.
This "Android netbook" isn't one. It's a wifi-capable smartphone without the phone capability, i.e. a Mobile Internet Device.
MID Competitors: Nokia N810, Sony Mylo.
Slapping Android on it makes it new and shiny. Whatever! :)
Re: (Score:2)
When an atom netbook is at max power consumption, it is playing a sophisticated game like Rise of Nations or a movie at higher than DVD quality. Your beagle board or N800 can't do that.
Wut?
Heise online UK saw the Beagle Board demonstrated at the LUGRadio Live event, where it was demonstrated running 720P HD video and desktop effects, which were designed to show the power of the graphics processor and DSP, above and beyond the 600MHz ARM processor all integrated into the single chip OMAP35 embedded processor
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<fanboy mode="Google">Dude, because it's from GOOGLE! ZOMG PONIES! SQEEEE!</fanboy>
Honestly, I can't see why I'd ever buy a netbook machine and have it crippled with some non-open OS.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux is consistently failing to grab much desktop market share, in spite of MS's numerous goof ups. Android seems to be yet another credible attempt to achieve that (big name backer, supposedly sleek interface, noob-friendly...), so anything "Android" is exciting.