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Guitar Hero, On a Real Guitar, To Hit Shelves In 2009
Posted by
timothy
on Fri Mar 06, 2009 05:31 PM
from the it-looks-like-you're-playing-a-guitar dept.
from the it-looks-like-you're-playing-a-guitar dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Minneapolis Star Tribune features an article (with photos) about a prototype electric guitar that doubles as a Guitar Hero controller. It is not just another guitar-shaped controller with buttons: it is an actual, playable guitar, shown in-action. The startup company, Zivix, LLC, intends to bring the product to store shelves in 2009. Web searches indicate that the company may have raised around $800K for the venture. The company is also working on technology that enables finger sensing on a real guitar that would allow your computer to teach you how to play chords or evolve into a future guitar synthesizer."
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Submission: Guitar Hero on a Real Guitar to Hit Shelves 2009 by Anonymous Coward
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not for me (Score:2, Funny)
It's cool, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's cool, but I highly doubt it will convince many people to really learn the guitar. Guitar Hero is a game. You can pretend to be Slash or Jimmy Page with minimal effort. That's why people play it.
I smell Christmas cash-in on parents who worry little Johnny and Susie are wasting too much time on a video game. "Now they can REALLY learn music... the FUN® way!"
People would be better off putting that money into a month's worth of guitar lessons at the music shop down the street. That's about the amount of time it would take for someone to decide they're serious about learning to play, and also about the amount of time it would take to get sick of playing this "Headliner."
Re:It's cool, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it can be done. One of the driving forces behind Guitar hero aside from accessibility is the fact that it scores you.
We can tell when we hit the wrong note of course, but mistakes weigh heavily in the mind of a new player, and frustration can easily kick in before fascination. That's how so many new players just end up quitting.
With scores, you can see progress with a concrete metric. You may have only managed 1 more note correctly, or ran your scale .5 seconds faster, but it's an improvement you can see that you might not have noticed. This can give them the encouragement to give it one more go to see if they can do better.
And the fact that they're fretting actual strings instead of buttons goes a long way in teaching them to successfully work their way around a guitar.
You could even modify the game to teach real guitar concepts. Add scale time-trials, at harder levels, remove the note indicators so they have to memorize it, then transfer between scales midway through...the player could pick up quite a bit.
You can have the game accept different variations of notes as correct inputs. Like instead of a vanilla D, let them play a Dsus4 and recognize that as a successful note as well. Everybody in Guitar Hero plays the same song by default, they can try their own combinations and impress their friends.
It's an idea with a lot of potential, and also an idea that's been around for a long time. The devil's in the details and the successful will all pivot on how well they execute this product. (My bet is that they will fail completely and fade into obscurity).
Parent
Re:It's cool, but... (Score:4, Informative)
actually most new players quit is because they bought a guitar thinking "now i'll buy a cheap guitar and try whether all this guitar playing stuff is fun or not". cheap guitars are difficult and painful to play, though, so the fun is over fast.
Parent
Re:It's cool, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Getting "serious" about learning to play foists a lot of your hopes and dreams onto a kid who probably just wants to have a good time with tunes. "Serious" is where you live. "I'm interested enough to play with it" is where the kid lives. I say if a little extra expense might open some real doors for the kid, go for it.
Speaking from experience, the best way to kill little Johnny's musical enthusiasm is to stick him into a cramped room with some old bastard who -- right or wrong -- makes you play scales instead of have fun with the music. "Serious" kills in the creative realm, at least until comfort, experimentation, and dedication settle in. And yeah, they're all different qualities from "serious."
In my younger days I walked away from the viola because I hated my music teachers and the expectations that my parents shoveled onto me. I wish I'd had the sense to keep it up in my own time, but the teenage years: you know they're all about rebellion. Now I'm thirty-five and wishing I could play now like I used to. If there was a Viola Hero with a real viola, I'd zip out and get one in a moment.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If there was a Viola Hero with a real viola, I'd zip out and get one in a moment.
It's a shame you hadn't been learning the sousaphone [theonion.com] when you were younger.
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I've read about a couple people trying to do this in some form (basic idea of "like guitar hero but using a real guitar") but personally I'm waiting to see someone go the opposite direction: turing the guitar hero guitar into a real musical instrument.
I know that probably sounds silly, but between all of the buttons, the strumming switch, and an analog wammy bar, it seems like there should be enough different controls to do something. I bet you could feed the input into a computer and have some of the con
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You're exactly right, and it's been done.
http://www.gadgetspage.com/toys-games/the-guitar-zeros-play-real-music-with-guitar-hero-controllers.html [gadgetspage.com]
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I don't understand...
When did groupies become inadequate motivation to learn guitar?
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Lends a whole new meaning to "Electric" guitar! (Score:5, Funny)
According to South Park... (Score:5, Funny)
Real guitars are lame [southparkzone.com]
Reality (Score:2)
The biggest problem I see is that Guitar Hero is not designed to be played with a real guitar, and the colored buttons do NOT correspond to real string/fret positions, or to real chords. There's nothing in the game that says "the first three notes are a D chord, the next note is an A chord", only "the first three notes are the red button, the next note is the green". How is this product going to map real chords into something the game can understand?
Or will it just use one string (or allow the player to u
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Well, I can imagine being able to plug this controller into a console running Rock Band or Guitar Hero, and using the first five frets as if they were controller buttons. Then if you plug it into a PC or console running a game designed for this controller, you could use the whole range of "controls" available.
That's what I'd do anyway, if I designed the hardware and software.
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heroin hero (Score:2)
now with real heroin!
to be followed with Rehab Hero w/Dr. Drew!
"Real" Guitar (Score:2)
I'll be impressed when you can just plug in any guitar, and the software can interpret what you're playing and if it's in sync. Games could have different rules - some would require strict following of written music, whereas others would allow room for interpretation and improvisation. The direct feedback from the software could really accelerate the process of learning to play.
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Guitar Rising may be what you are looking for.
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http://www.guitarrising.com/ [guitarrising.com]
This will be awesome if done correctly. My only hope is that we see this kind of technology become available for other instruments, as well.
How does it work? (Score:2)
The article makes no mention of how someone actually controls the game with the guitar which is a very important detail. If it's too hard for a beginner to get started then it's not likely that it will sell. If there is a slow gradual path of learning (rather than jumping in and being required to play the actual chords from the songs) then I could see it doing well. I would even get one for myself, I've always wanted something just like this to learn how to play.
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Found a video [youtube.com].
Basically it seems like they just put 5 touch sensors to represent the 5 buttons from the plastic guitar onto the fretboard of a real guitar. It doesn't look like it'll do much to teach you how to play if you're just playing one of the 5 button plastic guitar based games. Perhaps their own software has some more stuff to it but they'd need to put touch sensors everywhere on the guitar for it to work as an instructor.
Looking at what the product really is I'm not interested, perhaps if they do r
Rather surprised... (Score:2)
That nobody has mentioned Guitar Rising [guitarrising.com] yet or Little Big Star [littlebigstar.net] yet.
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what about the one theoretically coming from Disney this year? (Star Guitarist) the video on wired is amazing
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/finally-a-guita.html [wired.com]
What about a real guitar? (Score:2)
I have an older mint condition Charvel a family friend gave to me years ago. I never learned to play but it would be fun if this game could somehow let me use my real guitar. I still would like to learn. I am sure it is possible to develop a box that houses a preamp and a USB A/D converter. Then implement a tone decoder in software to detect the notes so you don't have to mount anything on your guitar. What better way to learn than an interactive video game so you can learn the basics and then move on to pl
Zivix guitar, explained (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
MIDI guitars and guitar interfaces were available in the 90s, probably earlier. Here's one I remember:
Parker MIDIFly [harmony-central.com]
Re:Long time coming (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Long time coming (Score:5, Interesting)
Having worked on a similar project, I can say this .. encoding analog signals created by guitar strings is tricky. Especially if you're modifying your standard electric guitar.
It doesn't seem like that difficult a problem (just make a ADC, right?), except you run into interesting problems such as: for low E, if you wait for the full cycle of the vibration to finish, it's already too long to create a satisfying user experience (i.e. even with no processor overhead, by the time you conclude the wavelength matches, there will be noticeable delay to actual sound); the string affect each other; the amplitudes can vary wildly (which can force a large encoding size; strumming looks very different from plucking, etc.
By the time you can throw enough processing power at the problem, you have a very expensive device on your hands. The keyboard, on the other hand is a much more precise instrument, and you can map any sound onto it, making it much more prevalent than guitars in the MIDI world.
Thus, for a long time, there just wasn't much demand for MIDI guitars. However, with the advent of guitar hero/rock band, it turns out many people have collectively slapped their foreheads and realized the potential. I know of at least 3-4 other companies working on this problem.
Whoever can create first a low-cost MIDI interface with a compelling game will reap in large sums of cash.
There are, however, a few important factors involved. For example, does it make sense to create a device for gaming only, or do you want it also to be able to do studio quality work.
On one side of the equation, you have a cheap device that doesn't track the player's notes 100% of the time, and is somewhat lossy in general. However, in a game-scenario, you know what notes are coming your way, so you can implement a few intelligent algorithms that can decide which note you most likely meant to play. Additionally, even if you have delays in your system, you can retroactively score the player's performance.
On the other side of the equation, you have no idea what note should be next (actually, this isn't entirely true .. it's a problem not entirely disimiliar to the iPhones adaptive keyboard). You also need want to be able to reproduce as many of the attributes of the vibrating string as possible. This can be a complex issue, especially considering that the strings will vibrate differently if you strum up or down. Again, you might be able to guess what note the player meant to play (think auto-tuning), but it's still no easy feat.
So, the first choice is easy, cheap and lossy. The second choice is hard, expensive, but useful outside of the game world. If it's really only games fueling this endeavor, it's more about coming up with creative hacks than trying to make a MIDI guitar.
Parent
Re:Long time coming (Score:5, Informative)
Wasn't this idea thrown around when the MIDI interface was created, 20+ years ago?
But of course...we're now coming full circle when people realize that they can do this Guitar Hero stuff on real guitars, and without the buttons either. Turns out, guitars actually make music all by themselves (with possibly just an amp)!!! But I digress--for those interested in music, here are the relevant things that precede this in time and in awesomeness:
Yamaha MIDI pickup for guitars [zzounds.com] -- turns the note you're playing into a MIDI note that can then control a synth on your computer. And I don't mean the 80's era crappy "synth" sounds, modern sound synthesis engines are INCREDIBLY realistic.
Alternatively, you could skip Guitar Hero completely and do the following:
This is the method I use and it's incredibly satisfying if you don't happen to have a band lying around. Plus it also lets you choose which part you want to play along with, speed up/slow down the song. Sure there aren't any vocals, but it's still mucho fun and way better for impressing people with.
Parent
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IMO, it's perfectly acceptable to use RB/GH drums as a learning tool.
Get a practice pad at the very least though, and "Stick Control For The Snare Drummer", by George Stone. That will teach you the fundamentals for controlling your hands, especially since RB/GH basically have no concept of dynamics on the drums. You need to learn how to play accents, and how to hit lightly when necessary. A practice pad doesn't have the cost or bulk involved with a full kit. Pad-work is a bit tedious, but it's worth it in t
Re: (Score:2)
Why buy sheet music when you could open MIDI files with $TAB_EDITOR? It's a convenient way to arrange other instrument parts for guitar. Just don't get too vocal about it, or else we'll see the RIAA try to ban MIDI files like they went after Tabs.
If the game is designed for teaching with guitar-triggered MIDI then they'd have to redo the entire UI to a more traditional music or tablature staff with notes flying right-to-left instead of top-to-
Re: (Score:2)
# Get Guitar Pro 5 [guitar-pro.com] with it's "Realistic Sound Engine" or use TuxGuitar [tuxguitar.com.ar] on Linux.
RealStrat and RealGuitar are better for synthesis. But are good for what you're suggesting.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Was that Yamaha pickup any good? I remember seeing it in a music store some years ago and wondering if it actually worked. It seems like a relatively trivial problem to solve if you can attach a pickup, as they did. Transforming the audio into some kind of useful MIDI information in realtime seems horribly difficult but also doable... just not without immense processing power.
I tried it in a music store and it seemed to be capturing basic pitch and velocity pretty well for each string, which is pretty neat. I don't imagine that it would take too much computational power, since the underlying computation is basically just doing an FFT on the audio signal and picking up the fundamental frequency. That translates quite well into a MIDI note on/note off command. FFTs can be done really efficiently in hardware I believe.
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MIDI controllers have been available in all shapes and sizes, introduced in new variations every year. A few years back I even saw a woodwind MIDI controller, meant to emulate a flute, clarinet, or soprano sax. It responded to changes in breath, in addition to the obvious finger controls. Looked cool, but I have no idea how it worked in practice.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVp9kmjbzI
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Yeah, not sure if it was their implementation, but something along those lines, at least.
A non-youtube link for everyone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWI [wikipedia.org]
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The problem I see with it is that unless you turn your TV's sound way up, you're going to hear the tinny off-key strings of the guitar while you play.
And what about the bloody click-click-click-click noise a Guitar hero controller do every time? That thing drives me crazy.
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The Rock Band controllers don't click, which is great for being less annoying as a "spectator" watching people play. The downside of this is less tactile feel on the "strum bar" when you're playing.
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I'd bet that more than likely, they'll have one of the colored buttons map to a real chord... so while the chords may not go together to match the song, at least it'll be "musical".
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Playing an electric guitar "for real", you'll hear your strings over your amp if you have the amp really quiet, so there's not much difference IMO. If you don't want to hear the strings, you'll want it loud in both cases.
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True, I wasn't thinking about the "first five frets" only part.
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Obviously, he stopped believin' too early.
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I wonder if he's got anything to do with Guitar Rising [wikipedia.org]
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http://www.fretlight.com/ [fretlight.com] looks like the wheel has been reinvented.
Finger position sensing technology in a guitar is not the same as having some LEDs light up where your fingers should go.
I've often wondered why the computer can't just audibly detect what note you played with a visual indication of where your fingers need to be to play the correct note (I'm sure there's a simple explanation though.)
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On a guitar there are many different ways to play the same note. There are even many different ways to play the same chord (group of notes).
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Not trying to be argumentative, but those prices are a little out of touch with reality, I'm afraid.
A quality instrument is going to start at around $700 USD these days, with lesser quality products starting at about $300.
Like most other arts, the biggest factor is the artist, but you need an axe that will hold a tune and handle the stress of being played.
I have never seen a $50 strat in a pawn shop or anywhere else. The cheap, Mexi-strats start at a minimum of $300, and a used one (that works) will comman