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Sony To Unveil New Fuel-Cell Prototype
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed Feb 25, 2009 07:34 PM
from the new-power dept.
from the new-power dept.
Nakeot writes "On Friday, Sony plans to unveil their newest portable fuel-cell technology, aimed at a variety of mobile applications. From the article: "The system contains both a methanol fuel cell and a Li-on battery" and can "intelligently switch between power from the battery, fuel, or even both under high-draw circumstances." Sony intends to show off two models claimed to power your cell for a week or a month, respectively, as well as the latest developments with their sugar-batteries that can now run purely off your favorite cola beverage. This model builds on Sony's 2008 model, their first commercially-demonstratable prototype, and could make waves with Sony's OLED devices, but will Sony be able to avoid another battery recall?"
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Power my cell for a week (Score:5, Funny)
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with their sugar-batteries that can now run purely off your favorite cola beverage
And you should be able to spill that beer on your cellphone, and it will run even longer!
Although maybe a rum and coke has more sugar in it than beer......
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Wowie, yours too! Let's get together over beers and then shove greased-up yoda dolls up our asses while watching 300!
Didn't we just do that last week?
These are still vapor (Score:3, Insightful)
We have been hearing about fuel cells "just around the corner" for a freakin' decade now. I think you can put them in the same corner as Duke Nukem Forever and that Holographic Storage thing that keeps popping up on Slashdot.
SirWired
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The problem is a lot of things fall at one of the hurdles to becoming ubiquitous.
E.g. Field Emissions Displays looked promising a few years back and I thought they'd end up being used in pretty much all TVs. Oddly enough LCDs which back then were crap and expensive have ended up being good and cheap and have replaced CRTs almost completely.
I thought the same thing would happen with Plasma v LCD, but it seems to have peaked. It's still quite possible OLEDs will stay in the niche market of small screens for P
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What I really want to see is a unit that can be used as a big battery for solar installations. Let me produce hydrogen all day in the sun and then run the other way around at night.
Re:These are still vapor (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
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and that Holographic Storage thing that keeps popping up on Slashdot.
Yeah but it looks so real... like I can just reach out and touch the drive.
I also like the psychedelic colors.
Seems promising to me!
Re:These are still vapor (Score:5, Funny)
NOTHING can be in the same corner as Duke Nukem Forever. In Vegas the odds would be better of Elvis riding towards Caesars Palace on a Unicorn, on a rainbow, with a horde of screaming Leprechauns chasing after him pissed because he stole the pot of gold. Ohhh, and Elvis would have TITS. Big Ones.
Parent
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He ate all their bacon and peanut butter and banana sandwiches, too.
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Fine. I meant big huge boobies like Dolly Parton or Jessica Love Hewitt. Not man-titties. Something with cleavage.
I have yet to see a man with man-titties so big he could make cleavage, and I fervently hope I never do.
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I saw the green bike pictured here [alternativ...-news.info] at an electric bike event in Wales last year but more people were interested in the normal battery bikes because they could buy one there and then if they wanted (and some did).
I would love an electric bike that could do up to 100km on a single charge/refill but the (un)availability & price right doen't make it feasable. Hopefully when I've run my
Big Bang Theory (Score:4, Funny)
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That's not funny. Do you really think we could even get these things onto planes?
So it can both explode and catch fire.. (Score:2, Funny)
From the article:
> The system contains both a methanol fuel cell and a Li-on battery
The downside... (Score:3, Funny)
The only downside is that since it's from Sony, it installs a rootkit on your cellphone that keeps you from copying pictures you take on it to your computer...
(Yes, I'm still holding that grudge. Such is the PR price a company pays for being so mind-numbingly stupid.)
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The only downside is that since it's from Sony, it installs a rootkit on your cellphone that keeps you from copying pictures you take on it to your computer...
I believe that Verizon Wireless already has prior art [engadget.com] on that one ;)
Re:The downside... (Score:5, Insightful)
Your not the only one holding that grudge. Just like you I bring it up every single time I can. I'll release my grudge when some Sony executives go to prison.
I also object to the word stupidity. I honestly believe it was downright maliciousness and their actions were not without intelligence. They knew exactly what they were doing and thought they had the rights to do it. That was not stupid. It was evil. Calling them stupid makes them out to be fools and somehow deserving of our compassion for just being simple idiots.
In EVERY other single case of a rootkit being installed on consumers systems without their knowledge, there WOULD be a criminal court case. Sony does it.... nothing.
Parent
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I still don't buy it. I think the execs at Sony did have knowledge of what they were doing. In any case, I hope we can at least agree that *somebody* needed to go to prison here. If you are right and Sony execs were just ignorant of what their underlings brought them as an option, then fine. I want the person that knew what a rootkit was, what it did to the systems, to go to prison.
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The real evil are the individuals who made the technology and sold it to Sony. They knew what it was going to do.
or maybe the people who sold the technology to Sony knew exactly what they were doing, and specifically designed it that way because they wanted a worldwide backlash against DRM? ...see, I can make unsubstantiated claims too.
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A rootkit is the very definition of "gaining access to a computer system without authorization."
They quite literally hacked into their customers' computers without their knowledge. How is that not criminal?
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You're absolutely right, I stand corrected.
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Methanol is toxic and reacts with metals... (Score:5, Informative)
Ethanol is a less toxic and less reactive to metals (and much safer) alcohol to use. https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/89308.htm [fishersci.com]
From another methanol MSDS: "Releases flammable vapors below ambient temperatures. When mixed with air and exposed to ignition source, vapors can burn in open or explode if confined. Mixtures with water and as little as 21% (by vol.) methanol are still flammable (flash point less than 104F). Under some circumstances, may corrode certain metals, including aluminum and zinc and generate hydrogen gas. A methanol fire may not be visible to the naked eye."
Aren't many laptops made of aluminum and zinc and magnesium? What happens when the lithium battery decides to cook off? Hummmm?
(In any case, I am sure the TSA will let us all board planes with our alcohol-fueled laptops.)
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It's possible that they don't use ethanol for the same reason the 85% is as high as ethanol for cars is allowed to go. That being there are people stupid enough to try to drink it and you might actually have to limit it's sale as alcohol unless you could show that it is nearly impossible to access it.
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you can make ethanol non-drinkable (and toxic) by adding a bit of methanol. It's called denatured alcohol. 100 percent ethanol is used as a fuel in many applications. I've used both methanol and ethanol for fueling my backpacking stoves. Ethanol has a slightly higher energy density (more joules per gram); methanol is slightly more volatile (ignites more easily). Ethanol has the edge for camping in the backcountry because I can mix it with lemonade packets for a cocktail. Methanol would make me vomit (or die
Re:Methanol is toxic and reacts with metals... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ethanol always has methanol in it. In the presence of ethanol, methanol is not toxic because the ethanol prevents it from being converted into formaldehyde. The treatment for methanol poisoning is an ethanol drip.
Methanol is used because ethanol fuel cells don't exist technologically yet. Methanol is a much simpler molecule.
Methanol is more toxic than gasoline in the sense that methanol has a very low vapor pressure and so if there were a spill in an enclosed area, you would breathe in a good amount of it, which could cause blindness.
Parent
Re:Methanol is toxic and reacts with metals... (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, apparently my first paragraph is based on an urban legend, not facts. Ethanol does usually have a very tiny amount of methanol in it, and ethanol will compete for the alcohol dehydrogenase that will make the methanol toxic, but ethanol is not sufficient treatment by itself to make the methanol safe.
I think. I'm not totally sure I trust wikipedia more than the postdocs in my lab. Meh. Better safe than sorry though.
Parent
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Um, they limit it to 85% because if it's higher than that, most gasoline internal combustion engines will not be able to ignite it. In many cars, it's limited to 10% because the O-rings will degrade in the presence of ethanol.
Further, getting ethanol higher than 90% is extremely expensive and typically requires adding toxic chemicals such as benzene. ...
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Further, getting ethanol higher than 90% is extremely expensive and typically requires adding toxic chemicals such as benzene. .
Huh? I can buy a 750ml bottle of Everclear [wikipedia.org] for $20. It's 95% ethanol and given that it's intended for consumption I'm guessing they didn't add any toxic chemicals to it.
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$27/L is pretty expensive for a fuel with about the same energy content as gasoline.
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Thank you rcw-home, yes, I meant 190 proof, not 90%.
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Re:Methanol is toxic and reacts with metals... (Score:5, Informative)
(I study this for a living.)
Methanol is better because there aren't any carbon-carbon bonds to cleave. This makes it easier to find catalysts that will functionally convert it into CO2 and H+ ions. Smaller molecules are just generally simpler to work with.
In the end, methanol based fuel cells exist. Ethanol based fuel cells don't. I'm working on it, but it'll be a while =)
As far as safety, methanol is mostly dangerous because if it is ingested or inhaled, it will be converted into formaldehyde in the body and cause blindness. Methanol is not particularly more corrosive than ethanol/water, and while it has a lower vapor pressure than ethanol, the quantity of methanol present in a battery form factor is likely to be far too small to produce a serious hazard.
Parent
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How do you guys work on such stuff?
Is it based on "hunches" that certain materials might work in some scenarios, and then you go through the combinations?
While you're at it, how about a fuelcell that runs on hydrocarbons? After all, an efficient way to store hydrogen is around carbon chains
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Great.
You can be sure that if they could make an ethanol-based fuel cell, they would. There's a good reason their engineers choose the materials that they use. It's easy to say that there are better ones. Getting them to work, not so much.
LiIO + fuel cell (Score:2)
so this could potentially be a battery that recharges itself? That's got a really high Geek Factor (TM)
Can't fly with it (Score:3, Informative)
Methanol makes a fine carrier for hydrogen. Too bad it's also used in lighter fluid, as in charcoal grill lighter fluid. In the picture, you can see the little tank in the cell that contains the methanol. It's pretty. Very stylish. And guaranteed to make Homeland Security put you in a small room for several hours.
Ok, so you never take it on an airplane. I know! Let's take it to school! 'cause kids listen to MP3s a whole lot on the school bus and wandering around between classes and during class (even though they're not supposed to). "Student expelled for bringing flammable materials^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H a BOMB to school" - headline coming to a slashdot near you. "'It's just my MP3 player!' says student, now permanently on a Homeland Security watchlist."
Ok, so you can never take it to school. I know! Let's use it at home! 'cause surely we can listen to our MP3s in the safety of our own bedrooms. "Rash of house fires sweeps nation" - headline coming to a slashdot near you. "Fire marshals report MP3 players dropped and broken when stepped on is soaking carpets in alcohol and igniting by their own shattered electronics."
Yes, hydrogen is a slippery element. Yes, it's hard to contain it. Yes, it'd be nice if portable electronics had better batteries. No, I don't think a methanol fuel cell is going to solve the problem...
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Once enough people want it, especially business people who want to use their laptops on longer flights. Then the airlines push back, and usually get their way. At the end of the day, you can't cost the airlines too much money up front.
OLD/Dupe...The Onion already had this story (Score:5, Funny)
Sony Releases New Stupid Piece of Shit That Doesn't Fucking Work
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/sony_releases_new_stupid_piece_of [theonion.com]
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Thank You. I Fucking Needed That.
But I hear that the fuel cell blows up (Score:2)
whenever you try to use it to power your PC to run BitTorrent.
That's actually not very good... (Score:3, Insightful)
...Considering most recent cell phone batteries will already last 3-4 days. And does it have enough current capacity to RUN the cell phone, replacing the current battery?
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3-4 days?
Do you keep your phone switched off?
I would love a fuel cell which can power my phone for a full year.
I will pay good money to forget the stupid charger.
And i would love a fuel cell for my iBook G4.
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Hmmm.. surprising.
My LG KU990 gives me 2 days max with Bluetooth off. And hell it is a 3700mAh battery. I guess since its Flash-based, it sucks battery.
What about the iPhone users in this forum?
How much time do you guys get?