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1 of 3 Dell Inspiron Mini Netbooks Sold With Linux
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:49 AM
from the for-their-patients-who-chew-gum dept.
from the for-their-patients-who-chew-gum dept.
christian.einfeldt writes "According to an article in Laptop Magazine on-line, one-third of Dell Inspiron Mini 9s netbooks are sold with the Ubuntu Linux operating system. Dell senior product manager John New attributed the sales volume to the lower price point of the Ubuntu Linux machines. And the return rate of the Ubuntu Linux machines is approximately equal to that of comparable netbooks sold with Microsoft Windows XP. Dell spokesperson Jay Pinkert attriutes the low return rate to Dell's good communications with its customers, saying 'We have done a very good job explaining to folks what Linux is.'"
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Netbooks and Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Netbooks are the prefect place to introduce people to Linux. Because they generally don't expect to play games (Other than flash games and the like) or use them for a lot of officework, Linuxes major flaws are not apparent, while its advantages (Free, faster) are.
If I were involved in the Linux community I'd be pushing hard for a lot of development of drivers and the like for Unbutu (Linux needs some name recognition somewhere)
That's why the previous story about difficulty with the EEE and Linux was disturbing to me.
Re:Netbooks and Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Drivers are for the kernel, not for a distribution.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of the hardware is common and well documented. This allows me to use OpenBSD as my main desktop with everything perfectly supported.
The included Ubuntu is not perfect but it is good enough and with wine and proprietary addons can be run as a drop-in Windows replacement if one so wishes. I replaced it with Xubuntu which looks a lot better, and t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Most people (except maybe slashdotters) expect an OS that "just works" without dealing with modules nor their parameters. Yes, the drivers are part of the kernel, but distros differ a lot in the way or the capabilities for automatic hardware discovery and automatic module configuration. I think that's what the GP is referring to.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What's disturbing is that Asus chooses hardware that has bad drivers and a manufacturer that just does not want to co-operate... Some Eees have a pretty good wireless chip but for some reason they are now using the awful Ralink hardware that A) sucks on every platform and B) has linux drivers so bad that they're not even enabled on the default kernel build.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Asus's Eee is a large cause for the attention netbooks have received, and was originally meant to run GNU/Linux only. The trouble started when they saw they were getting so much attention, they would make a Windows version, beefing up the machine and going from hardware that had great Linux driver support to mediocre.
The Eee was supposed to be so cheap and yet so good, and then they started making announcements that, "No, it will no
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That said, I don't know how Ralink's chipsets work on netbooks. I have a Dell Inspiron 1525n with that Intel wireless chipset mentioned above (no problems there, either). If you're having problems with the Ralink drivers
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Linux's major flaws...
Heathen!
Re:Netbooks and Linux (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with the GP's comments is that he fails to take into consideration that XP (and other versions of Windows) REQUIRE the use of:
a) Antivirus software. Yes, you CAN do without it, and many technically minded people do. But you HAVE to know how to properly secure your machine and you will still need to use a one-shot scanner like Trend Micro's on occasion. For the AVERAGE (IE: most of the population) user, they will want AV software. Once that's installed you can kiss your speed goodbye. Especially if you load up what MOST users load up, either Symantec or Macaffee.
b) Anti-Spyware software. See Antivirus software.
Those two items, particularly the first one, completely KILL any speed advantage Windows has, handing the speed mantle to any of a dozen linux distros quite easily. Again, to keep it honest, we MUST compare standard setups to standard setups. Linux does not require AV software, Windows does. Simple fact of life in the modern computing world.
So, rather then your strawman argument of stupid people starting the "Linux is faster" meme, it was actually experienced users used to dealing with (and setting up) multiple platforms that have seen the difference and let others know.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I could have said that I haven't been using antivirus/antispyware/etc software on my computer that is running Windows for years; however, it wouldn't add much value to the discussion. I occasionally use online virus scanners, where I can upload cra^H^H^Hquestionable software and it would scan the binary for me, however this doesn't really support OP's argument. I think that if Linux had a high enough presence on computers of general public, malware makers would surely pay more attention to it.
Let's assume
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, if I refuse to give the unskilled users an Administrator password, malware would not cause much problems to a Windows computer either. I guess that you would respond that it is impossible to
Re:Alternative: Liberated (or "pirated") XP (Score:4, Insightful)
Note that most users don't have USB CD-ROM drive to install pirated XP on such netbook in the first place. And installing XP from USB stick or via network... I better stick with Linux instead for it is much easier.
In case of netbooks the argument "they just buy it cheaper to install pirated Windows" doesn't hald.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought I agreed with you on your comment, but then I thought about it for a moment. People who do the whole "warez" thing, and who have been doing it for years, know how to work stuff like this.
As a teen, I was pretty heavily into warez. Everyone who was 'into' computers was. It's just what you did, and how you got your software when you were a kid. So how would a person go about putting XP on a laptop that has no CDROM?
I've installed Windows (2003) on a system with SATA but no floppy drive. I don't reme
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
So.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Optimistic at Best (Score:5, Interesting)
a Linux sale is a Linux sale (Score:4, Insightful)
And the same is true for Dell's competitors. If Dell's competitors see that they can move product in a down market by installing Linux on the machines, will they spend much time contemplating whether XP is installed on the machines? Probably not.
Most OEMs have small margins on their sales of all but the upper-end machines. Volume is what matters. Hence the power of Microsoft Windows. At least until today. For OEMs and pretty much everyone in the channel, volume is what matters. As of today, they will know that Linux distros have proven that they can drive one-third of that volume. That is what really matters.
And it gets better. As Linux-related desktop sales increase, you will see more and more third party vendors, such as 2dBoy, port their products to Linux, as maker of the popular indy game World of Goo [slashdot.org] has recently done.
Volume is king. And now Linux is seeing some significant volume sales.
Parent
Not so impressive. (Score:4, Funny)
"1 of 3" and not "1 in 3"? Big deal. So Dell sold 1 notebook with Linux. How is that going to put a dent in Microsoft's market share?
So why aren't they selling it with Linux here? (Score:4, Insightful)
No Linux version here in Australia. If it's accounting for 1/3 of sales, why the hell isn't it available?
I certainly won't buy the Windows version, but I'd definitely consider the Linux version.
What, 33% market share and we're complaining? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem are the other two thirds.
What? I'm sorry, What???
We're seeing Linux have 33% market share on a general-purpose computer. Yes, I know, it's a certain class of computer but what I driving at is that it's a machine that is suited for a wide variety of tasks (as opposed to only being a router, phone, DVR, text reader, etc.).
I'd love to live in a world where Linux had 33% market share on general-purpose computers. I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.
What I'd much rather see is a wider variety of OSes and no one kind having a dominant position. That way, we can have more competition, more attention paid to being cross-platform and (hopefully) more interoperability.
I don't much care what everyone else uses as long as I have a good experience with Linux. As long as I can't make people stop hosting their videos in stupid flash wrappers (and gnash doesn't work very well) I'm dependent on flash working well enough on Linux. As long as there are no fast graphics cards with open-source drivers, I'm dependent on the proprietary ones.
So, I want the people in control of the software I have to run to be happy to treat the platform I run with some kind of respect.
But I don't want my choices imposed on anyone else. To healthy competition!
Parent
Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining? (Score:5, Interesting)
We're seeing Linux have 33% market share on a general-purpose computer.
A general-purpose consumer model, Tier 1 OEM computer, no less. FFS, what does it take to make someone happy these days? If you could have sent word of this back in time to me in 2000, I would have shit a joyous brick just to know such a future was possible.
I'd love to live in a world where Linux had 33% market share on general-purpose computers. I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.
A Linux "monopoly" really wouldn't be the same thing as the Windows monopoly -- aside from being mostly POSIX, it's also open source, so interoperability isn't a big issue, and there can be competition just amongst linux distros. But yeah, I tend to agree. I'm not that worried, since I don't see a situation where Linux eats all of Window's marketshare, but MacOS doesn't take any for itself.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's just that specific model. Netbooks are the new hot thing, but they aren't exactly the biggest chunk of the market as of today. So it's not like it's 33% of their Inspiron line or something. So I don't find the math to be implausible on its face, especially when we're talking about comparing a sales number with a completely different metric.
In any event, just having that Tier 1 support, and having it apparently work out well in that line, is something to get excited about.
Oh, and btw, that 0.2% absol
Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining? (Score:5, Insightful)
But I don't want my choices imposed on anyone else. To healthy competition!
I agree with this. I may be in the minority here, but I don't want Windows to die. I just want Microsoft to be in a position where they have to fight fair because they don't have the influence to rig the entire market.
Global software monoculture wouldn't be such a good thing. It's always good to have valid competitors, so long as there's actually a level playing field.
Parent
Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't want Windows to die. I just want Microsoft to be in a position where they have to fight fair because they don't have the influence to rig the entire market.
They don't seem very capable of adapting, and adapting is the only way for them to not die without being able to rig the market.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I want [Windows] to die die die die die!
Actually, so do I. I was just being moderate to whore karma ;-)
On a serious note: I'd like to see free software be able to give everyone an optimal* computing experience so that I can justify wanting everyone to use only free software.
That happening would mean the death of Windows. The death of Windows is just in itself not very high on my list of priorities.
* No, not just good, but optimal: I'd be disappointed if there's a trade-off is between quality and freedom. For a certain kind of computer user (th
Re:What, 33% market share and we're complaining? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that trading one monopoly (MS) for another (Linux) is not a good thing, even if I like Linux.
Just to remind you that there is a difference between a free system and a proprietary one when we are talking about monopoly.
First, the word monopoly is connected to the market, and is tied to the vendor, not the program in question -- claiming that GNU/Linux has a monopoly would be like claiming that electricity has monopoly in the power market. It simply doesn't lead to any of the problems usually associated with monopoly in economics that I've studied or read about. It's about the _vendors_, not about the products, goods or programs.
However, if there was a monopoly of a single vendor of services for GNU/Linux (for example, Canonical), which is, given the nature of free software, impossible, it would still cause a lot less trouble than what you get from monopoly with abusive anti-competitive practices and vendor lock-in. In your hypothetical situation, you aren't replacing your broken leg with a broken arm, you are replacing it with a painful bruise.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
as for the monopoly, i can't see a gnu monopoly being a bad thing. much like a state monopoly on the rail network is actually a good thing (as we have seen in great brit
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Mod this up. Not only does the XP machine cost $20 less and have twice the size SSD, it also comes with a full gig of memory versus a half gig for the equivalent Ubuntu version.
By my estimation that puts the same XP machine at $100 less than the equivalent Ubuntu machine? What weird economics are at work at Dell?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Thought train was rolling and I'll buy either:
1) subsidized by Microsoft (I think its called anti-competitive behaviour); or
2) Cowboy Neil setting prices.
It would be hard to convince me that 1 yr support(outsourced to Canonical or whomever) is the cost of XP AND the $20 difference in price. Equally hard to convince me that rolling a version for your laptop is any more difficult with Ubuntu (where I'm sure they'd get free assistance from a Canonical for support) than it is with XP.
As for large scale advanta
Re:The problem are the other two thirds (Score:5, Informative)
A not-insignificant chunk is running OS X, as well.
How To: Hackintosh a Dell Mini 9 Into the Ultimate OS X Netbook [gizmodo.com]
Parent
Re:not-insignificant? (Score:3, Interesting)
not-insignificant? You found a clever way of saying significant. You sly dog.
But I disagree that a significant percent of Mini 9 owners are running OS X.
Re:The problem are the other two thirds (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:5, Interesting)
Its a crippled kernel that only recognizes 1 GB of RAM. They also rebranded Firefox 3 as "Web Browser" and installed a Yahoo! toolbar by default, and had Yahoo! as the default search engine by default. The crapped up Firefox some other way so that the trackpad scrolling worked HORRIBLY. If you have one of these machines, spend $20 on a 2 GB stick of RAM and install the vanilla version of Ubuntu Netbook Remix from:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR [ubuntu.com]
You'll have a MUCH better experience. I have one and now love it, I hate what Dell did to "their" ubuntu though. They added no value and imposed artificial limitations to the hardware. Its really slick on that lowend hardware without Dell's cruft.
Parent
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe the stock kernel always has, since the hardware always has. IIRC Dell's modified kernel only supports 1 GB of RAM (and they provide NO updates in their repos) so that their marketing agreement with Microsoft that they not sell an item that can support more than 1 GB of RAM on it is abided by.
Parent
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:4, Informative)
So after the beginning of January, Dell Ubuntu no longer has the "crippled kernel that only recognizes 1GB of RAM", it supports the full 2GB.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Forcing Microsoft to bundle something other than IE in their own O/S is daft.
Much better to force Microsoft to not "encourage" companies like Dell to artificially cripple/hobble/handicap Microsoft's competitors. Or to do stuff like "Hey if you sell stuff with Linux, we'll charge you more for Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Office".
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:4, Insightful)
Because of a deal they made with MS.
Call your dell rep and ask they will tell you all about it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The machine performs better with the stock UNR installed on it, so why would you assume that?
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:4, Interesting)
the package was called firefox3 in apt-get/aptitude/dpkg/synaptic/Add/Remove Programs, but the icon was changed as was all branding inside the browser. Might even be in hot water for distributing a changed binary called firefox.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I would really prefer Dell to ship the standard xfce or gnome interface for their machines, rather than trying something 'cute' like HP. A pretty layer would entail developing a whole new layer over the existing UI. This layer, inevitably would have bugs and irritating traits because of one simple reason -- It takes a lot of time and talent to create a good user interface/desktop environment. I would think that HP has slapped on a pretty but buggy and quickly developed layer over gnome to make it look c
Re:"HP's Linux" (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't really blame them for altering their version of Linux, at least not as an abstract rule. At the very least, they're going to want to re-theme it for branding purposes, to give it a distinctive look, or at least to get rid of the Ubuntu brown. The probably should make sure that it has any fixes relevant to their hardware, assuming the distro doesn't accept their patches or just hasn't accepted the patches into the "stable" version yet. On top of that, of course they're going to want to add value if they can think of a way to do that.
Of course, that assumes that they have people at their company who are qualified to do this. The theme has to be good. The value-adds have to actually add value. That's not as easy as it seems. And then, these companies will unfortunately also try to protect their additions by trying to make it so their competitors can't use them. That's going to run afoul of the open source community even if not violating the GPL.
Here's something I'd love for Dell to do: create their own apt repositories (and repositories for any other package managers are used by distros they support) that provides drivers and any other software (e.g. openmanage) for all of their hardware. Servers, desktops, netbooks, everything.
Parent
Re:It's a favorite for Hackintoshers (Score:4, Informative)
Oh no, maybe .001% of people are doing that.
The number of hackintoshes on planet earth is probably in the hundreds total.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To my friends in the Apple Fanboi community I would like to offer a warm welcome to the install-it-yourself operating system slums.
No one cares what operating system your computer actually runs. They only care about the operating system you PAID for. This fact has worked against desktop Linux for years. When you install OS X on your Dell Mini all you are doing is making it less likely that Dell will have to offer support. Dell loves folks that install their own operating system on its hardware.
Not t
Microsoft cares (ironic, right?) (Score:3, Interesting)
Why else would they have a deals in place with Dell to nerf the netbooks, spend the energy to bring down the Windows 7 requirements, and keep Windows XP around just for netbooks?! If you aren't in the Microsoft OS you lose all the lock-ins they worked so hard for- Office formats, multimedia DRM, workflow ecosystem.
Microsoft Office sales start to go away when people realize that Open Office works for most folks and more files that aren't using proprietary formats means they need to start working with them
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am not saying that Microsoft doesn't care about Linux on netbooks. Microsoft absolutely cares. It's last quarter total sales were up but revenues were down 8% because a significant portion of Microsoft's sales are for the heavily discounted Windows XP netbook SKU.
Dell's numbers basically confirm the trend. People are looking for less expensive options. Even with a heavily discounted XP a third of Dell's mini sales are not putting any money at all in Microsoft's pocket because Linux is cheaper. If t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Get over it. I use the hedrat at work and it sucks. Yum is a garbage package manager and their repositories contain little to nothing.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, it works well, it's fast, and all hardware is supported. Installation is done with a retail Leopard disk, so it's a lot cleaner than most hackintoshes, and it's safely updateable.
How To: Hackintosh a Dell Mini 9 Into the Ultimate OS X Netbook [gizmodo.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)