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Second Prototype of the $200 Open Source Tablet
Posted by
Soulskill
on Mon Jan 19, 2009 09:04 AM
from the bringing-the-tubes-to-every-coffee-table dept.
from the bringing-the-tubes-to-every-coffee-table dept.
holy_calamity writes "TechCrunch blogger Mike Arrington decided last year to invent a new class of low-cost internet tablet using open source hardware and software. The second prototype has been unveiled, sporting a 12-inch touchscreen powered by a Via Nano processor, 1 GB of ram and a 4 GB flash drive. It runs a browser and nothing else on top of a custom Linux build. 'Resolution is 1024×768, which means the vast majority of websites are viewed in full width without scrolling. The device also has wifi, an accelerometer (so when you turn the screen on its side you can view more of a web page), a camera and a four cell battery.'"
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Mobile: TechCrunch Wants To Create an Open Source Tablet 160 comments
RKo618 writes "TechCrunch announced that they are planning to design their own $200 web tablet device. Quoting: 'The idea is to turn it on, bypass any desktop interface, and go directly to Firefox running in a modified Kiosk mode that effectively turns the browser into the operating system for the device. Add Gears for offline syncing of Google docs, email, etc., and Skype for communication and you have a machine that will be almost as useful as a desktop but cheaper and more portable than any laptop or tablet PC.' The aim is for the tablet to run on modified open source software, which will be released back to the community along with the specifications for the hardware."
[+]
Mobile: Leaked Pics of CrunchPad Elicit Progress Update 85 comments
TechCrunch has released a few more technical details, pictures, and general comments about their CrunchPad project as a recent accidental leak saw a new round of images posted to the web. It seems that the tablet has continued to grow and evolve with the help of an Intel Atom chip (as opposed to the Via chip previously used), new software from Fusion Garage, and a bottom-up Linux install. "I wanted something I couldn't buy, and found people who said it could be built for a lot less than I imagined. The goal — a very thin and light touch screen computer, sans physical keyboard, that has no hard drive and boots directly to a browser to surf the web. The operating system exists solely to handle the hardware drivers and run the browser and associated applications. That's it."
[+]
Mobile: Arrington's CrunchPad Dies 175 comments
adeelarshad82 writes "Michael Arrington announced the death of the CrunchPad on Monday morning in a blog post heavily spiced with angst and drama. According to Arrington, the Crunchpad, a 12-inch Web tablet expected to be priced at about $300, was just days away from launch. At the last minute, however, Arrington received an email from Chandra Rathakrishnan, the chief executive of manufacturing partner Fusion Garage, apparently trying to cut Arrington out of the product on the eve of the launch. Fusion Garage, according to Arrington, wanted to market the device itself under its own name; which obviously was the deal breaker. Arrington claims that the company had overcome obstacles at every stage in the business such as deals with Intel, retail launch, securing venture capital and angel investments. Interesting bit is that some were already speculating that the Crunchpad was not real."
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Its VIA! (Score:2, Informative)
So its going to look great on paper, and will be fine for the first hour, but sooner or later the thing will lock solid because Via have cut some corners in the drivers or not fully implemented a standard.
Previous owner of a kt133 (usb lockups), current owner of a CN400 (video lockups).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I have no idea if current stuff is as crappy as you say buy yes I had to run my KT400 board at 100 MHz FSB instead of 133 since it locked up all the time if I didn't.
May also have worked like crap in Solaris, or if that was my MSI board (which is K8T800 in any case ..)
All crap =P
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
try playing a video with xvmc acceleration. I think thats where VIA have been screwing up recently.
E.g.
xine -V xxmc dvd://
resource sucking (Score:5, Funny)
skips resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on the browser?
skips resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on the browser?
skips resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on the browser?
What alternate reality is this guy writing from!
Re:resource sucking (Score:5, Insightful)
The point of the design is to give as much resources to the browser as possible. And allow a small system to run a Fat Browser well.
Tablets are rather useless without internet and a web browser. The hardware is too under powered for games, or heavy computing. The UI makes it difficult to type or the random letter generator called handwriting recognition. It is only good for apps which are mostly point and click and type in a few words and point and click again.
Most of those apps are now web based or going to be so soon. So allowing a Fat Browser to run smoothly is important, and should be a focus.
Part of Apples success with the iPhone is that it can run a Fat Browser like Safari, which has the modern standards built in. Vs. others who have a reduced browser which makes it useful for work only on an elementary level web applications, which are normally hard to use and slow. So Yes I would say "skips resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on the browser".
Makeing a real product that is useful is different then those thought exercise in Computer Science. Modern business needs and user requirements conflict with intellectual purity.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So Yes I would say "skips resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on the browser". Makeing a real product that is useful is different then those thought exercise in Computer Science. Modern business needs and user requirements conflict with intellectual purity.
I wonder if any of us in computer science, with our bastions of "intellectual purity", could possibly address a business problem such as this -- how can we keep only those parts of an OS that are required for specific tasks and still be intellectually pure [wikipedia.org] and stable too [wikipedia.org]??
I agree with the principle of what you're saying, but concluding with a silly troll about computer science makes you seem like someone who flunked his OS class.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But I have seen a lot of bad code the follows all the rules to a point where it losses it usefulness, as it has became "too organized" to a point it lost flexibility and readability. I have seen other code that seems to break all the rules but somehow it is rather easy to maintain, and quite workable and performs well and fast.
You seem to be referring to software engineering, not computer science. There is a LOT more to computer science than "data layers" and "UI layers" and "best practices", which belong to the realm of -- you guessed it -- software engineering. There are no "rules" in computer science, just theorems that get translated into (hopefully) better/more efficient algorithms.
Re:resource sucking (Score:5, Insightful)
I would rather have a low-cost art tablet (drawing surface with an LCD screen) than a low-cost web browsing tablet.
Current LCD screen tablets are over $1500, which weirds me out because my freakin' 24" widescreen LCD was only $500. Stylus technology (most use passive induction) can't be THAT expensive can it?
I would love it if someone came out with a $200 1024x768 thin digital sketch pad. Put all its computing into running GIMP (or better yet, photoshop) or Inkscape, make it able to plug in directly to my desktop to download my images from it (or use it indirectly as a tablet for my PC).
That's something I'd easily drop $500 on. Easily.
Parent
Hope the market is ready... (Score:5, Interesting)
Today it should be a lot easier, given that they can rely on much cheaper off the shelf components and don't have to squeeze everything into minimal amounts of RAM and flash (for the first version we were working with Opera to get it running with a custom GUI in 16MB or 32MB of RAM total, and about the same amount of flash)...
Hope they make it - I want one.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
QNX + opera would have worked nicely in that small of footprint. I had one demoed to the company I was working for in 2 weeks from a mock up of OTS parts I got online. the prototype works solid for 2 years, I used it daily in meetings.
I'm betting your ex company screwed up based on internal mismanagement more than anything else. That's where my project ended. The managers that loved it, refused to make decisions and it died 6 months later when upper management pulled the plug due to lack of progress. M
Nothing else? (Score:4, Insightful)
Excuse me if this is a stupid question, I've not played with such toys.
It runs a browser and nothing else on top of a custom Linux build.
When it ways "and nothing else" does it mean "nothing else except the linux build, fully featured and usable to do whatever you need including changing the browser, upgrading using the toy to read documents in whatever format you download readers for, etc."?
Re:Nothing else? (Score:4, Informative)
Obviously the tablet won't be locked to that distro. If you want a more full-featured distro, you can install one.
Parent
I'm not (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not (Score:4, Insightful)
the audience this is designed for then. Seriously, go get a laptop.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But a lot of other people will, and have.
I agree though, the price point for this is $100-200.
Re: (Score:2)
TFA says it's running a full ubuntu install, so I'm sure you can get evolution and a pdf viewer running
Another use case would be uploading pictures etc to a shared drive via USB and SD slot
If you can create a nice looking charger/docking station, this would be great in the living room as a browser, picture station, and remote control for a mythtv installation; the price seems to be about the same as those fancy remote controls that they sell and being able to browse in the living room without interrupting t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From TFA:
The software: currently weâ(TM)re running a full install of Ubuntu Linux on the prototype with a custom Webkit browser.
Maybe they'll cut it down later, but I don't see why they should. They probably don't boot Gnome or any services, but it should be able to run random executables.
I wonder if they have tried to incorporate the setup from the 5 second boot project.
Give it pen input and I'm sold. (Score:3, Interesting)
I would love a device like this with pen input, so I can use it to take notes in class.
Notebook computers are great for textual classes, because I can type like a demon.
But much of my engineering curriculum is math, and keyboards don't lend themselves well to that.
I would ABSOLUTELY JUMP for a $300 tablet computer that let me write on it like digital notebook paper.
I paid about this much for my first engineering calculator (HP32S).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So... what is it you want to do with this type of device that you don't want to SAY you want to do?
I mean, because you could easily log into your Yahoo account with this thing, and flip over to the Notes section, and do whatever it is you wanted to do with Notepad.
Oh... you wanted to do some web design? Well, go ahead and use the WYSIWYG editor through your sites CPanel.
Oh... you wanted to be a Purist... ah. Elitism. I get it. Well, then just purchase yourself a full fledged computer.
You are probably ri
Re:for 300 bucks (Score:4, Insightful)
I've got an Eee. It's not the same thing. Laptops force you to a particular body position to use them, it's just unpleasant to use a laptop/netbook when lying on your side, for example. You can be as free using a tablet thingy like this as you can be while reading a paperback. I'd prefer something a little more compact than their prototype though - an 8 or 9" screen should be plenty if it's light enough to hold in one hand.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I have an Eee, and use it for reading rather frequently. Have you ever tried turning it on its side? (Either with screen rotation, e.g. xrandr, or a program like FBReader which includes a rotated mode?) The Eee 900, at least, is even balanced such that you can lay it with the back of the screen flat against a horizontal surface (when it's not plugged in). Also, unlike most paperbacks, it actually stays open on its own at whatever angle you choose.
A matte-reflective screen (e.g. e-Ink) would be an improvemen
TV Tray? (Score:2)
Is it just me or does this look at lot like a TV Tray [youtube.com]?
It is you... (Score:2)
Screen enlargement (Score:5, Funny)
an accelerometer (so when you turn the screen on its side you can view more of a web page)
I need a larger screen too. Must get myself one of them accelerometers.
hm, not sure (Score:5, Insightful)
While it does look interesting, I do wonder whether the core idea, that a browser is enough, really is solid. I knew it was Netscape's dream once, but did it work out?
When I think about what I do, certainly Firefox gets a lot of time. However, there's a lot of PDF content out there that I want to view and/or print - does this device do that? That's not an unusual usage scenario, btw. - when you book online tickets, or buy stuff online, very often you get the ticket and/or receipt in .pdf format.
Then there's the whole "download" scenario. Does it do that? Lots of people come across cool stuff they want to download. It doesn't have to launch Keynote, sorry OpenOffice or whatever the external App is, but at least ''saving'' something to an external shared device would be a requirement.
Then there's mail. There are still people around who don't use webmail, you know?
So, I quite like the idea, but I do wonder whether '''just''' the browser isn't a little too little.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the people at Google seem to believe that the browser is really enough.
I'm not saying they are right, or wrong, just that people in a big company believe it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I imagine that their marketing budget will have to dwarf their development budget, since they'll have to create a new market segment.
First problem: how do you sum it up in a short, punchy marketdroid phrase, without making it sound like it's either a overly weedy laptop, or an overly expensive toy?
Second problem: having boasted about how it's a "$200" device, how do you then get early adopters (us!) to pay more than that for it? Or if it has to retail for $200 from day 1, how do you persuade retailers
Have you heard about this revolutionary technique? (Score:3, Insightful)
It is called browser plugin.
Awesome stuff man, really awesome and cutting edge.
ur doing it wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Why go with X86 if you want low BOM cost ? Any ARM/MIPS/PowerPC SoC with decent Mhz will do it better for lower bill of materials. Try TI OMAP35xx line for instance, one with Cortex ARM and PowerVR graphics all in one chip. Works out way cheaper than anything x86-based. Getting a Beagleboard [beagleboard.org] is a good way to start.
And now with Canonical throwing official support for ARM-based Ubuntu, you have got your opsys covered as well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason (imho) for x86 is compatibility and ease of development.
The dominant platform in the world for web browsers is x86, be it Windows, Linux or Macintosh.
That means that your best odds for getting a plug-in or similar (or at least one that is current and supported) is x86. And that's true for your end users, too.
I understand that you could build open source stuff yourself for that architecture, but ARM is weird. You will probably have issues and have to figure them out yourself. It's a much bigger de
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There are a few differences between the Via board and the BeagleBoard.
First, the BeagleBoard includes RAM and flash on the package-on-package CPU module. You can install an OS in the flash and you've got something that will boot and run. Not sure what the specs on the current revision of the BB are, but the latest OMAP3530s come with 512MB of flash and 256MB of RAM on the chip (well, technically it's three chips, stacked on top of each other). Adding the RAM and the flash to the Nano the prices are s
Why x86? (Score:4, Insightful)
What reasons are there to put an x86 processor in a device like this? The Nano is not exactly low power, with an ARM based solution (Nvidia Tegra would seem pretty great for this for example) you could have many days of standby power without needing to reboot it all the time. Only reason for x86 I can think of is that it could run Windows, but is that really needed for this type of device?
Re: (Score:2)
Well windows runs on ARM as well .. at least in my HTC it does.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows CE, yes. I was thinking "Windows" as in desktop PC Windows (xp/vista) that is able to run your normal Windows desktop applications (Windows CE requires Windows CE applications)
Why is this taking so long? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm just utterly amazed it's taken this long for somebody to have a serious stab at a device like this. I've been asking for one for years. I got a Nokia Internet Tablet, but it's just too small. When Asus brought out the Eee and then everybody copied them within months I though they'd get the hint a build web tablets with the same kind of kit. But they haven't. Weird. This is exactly the kind of thing I want for browsing the web around the house and they will sell even faster than netbooks have, just as soon as somebody vaguely credible brings a reasonable quality one to market.
As to all the people wondering what else it will be able to do other than run a browser: It's an x86 box running Linux. It'll do whatever the hell you want it to do. Yes to PDFs, yes to ssh, yes to media player, yes to OpenOffice, yes to IM, yes to blowjobs on the beach, yes to absofuckinglutely everything you can do on any other Linux box. It's just a keyboard-less tablet netbook (not that that's not awesome).
(I lied about the blowjobs)
Copmatibility issues (Score:2)
I use Lego rather than Duplo. Compatibility with my existing devices may be a problem.
[Insert distro "build" pun here]
$299 is a world away from $199. (Score:5, Insightful)
the article [techcrunch.com] says
But let me tell you something: the difference between $199 and $299 is worlds. There is no LAPTOP near $199. but $299? You are now competing with full laptops. It is now a luxury item, since it would be like asking someone to buy two laptops - one that does almost nothing except surf the web. DONT MAKE PEOPLE MAKE THAT CHOICE.
This is what I think you should do:
Batteries dont matter as much as you think, because it's okay to leave the thing plugged in, like digital picture frames. In fact, that's how I read in bed: with an old LCD monitor connected to the desktop next to me, in my hands, with the power and VGA cables going off to the side. (I scroll with the mouse, in my other hand). I am your real target market. If you need to have a $199 version that has a 1-hour battery do it. If you can't, do it without a battery, so it only works while plugged in (like a digital picture frame). Do whatever it takes. You need to get this thing down to $199, no matter what.
I can spend that much for it just to read my bookz (scanned books from the net) - it's the price of 10 hardcover books. But $299 and I can't justify it.
And you don't need RAM. You need video RAM. I know, because I use a 500 mhz desktop with 128 MB of RAM all day - with a video card that has more RAM than it does. Flawless web use - flawless youtube etc. I'm waiting to upgrade until I drop about $2000, which I'm not doing in this economy. Meanwhile I get flawless web use out of this old POS.
Lower your standards until you can squeeze this thing out for $200. Have a $199 version with a sucky battetry (or none at all if you must), no camera, or accelerometer. And then a $299 version with all that, if you want to.
Do you want to know what will happen if you price this thing at $299? All your customers will settle on something smaller for $229. [apple.com]
Just my 2 cents.
Barely boots (Score:3, Informative)
"Barely boots" ... What? What does this mean? Either it boots or it doesn't. It's like being 'a little bit preggers'.
As for the screen size, you don't want a massive screen on a little tablet PC. I have a 12" tablet right now and other than weight, it's about perfect.
$300 is an okay price. HP has a $350 8.9" laptop with 1.6Ghz processor. If they can afford to do that for a 'real' laptop, I think $300 is a bit on the high side for a laptop that can only run a web browser.
Having said that, I paid $1200 for my tablet and felt I got a really good deal at the time. Previous tablets I looked at were in the $2500 range.
iGala Already Exists -- $239 (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I know that by posting this I officially brand myself as a corporate shill, but here's a device that runs Linux, has a touch screen, has an open API, and already exists and can be yours for $239:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/digital-photo-frames/b425/ [thinkgeek.com]
And you can use it as a picture frame out of the box. =)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:BOM? Dev cost? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Don't put yourself down like that, your very acute.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Total cost of the device, when we include estimates for the case, codecs and other miscellaneous items, is just over $200. Prototype B is actually much less expensive because the screen we used isnâ(TM)t very good. The price estimate includes a much better, more expensive LCD.
Sounds like bill of materials (BOM) plus a decent profit margin for an electronics device. It could be a reasonable estimate, especially since they're already building them for around $200 without economies of scale.
Re: (Score:2)
AFAICT, those are not Legos.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Way faster" is not necessarily the best way to prove a chip's value.
Does it have good cost/performance?
Is a certain level of performance required?
Can the package fit on the board?
Is there application support for the instruction set?
There's no reason you need to have the fastest chip on the block if you're only interested in showing webpages and playing web-video.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Aaand you're missing the point.
For most web apps, you only need Java or Flash, unless you're talking about a ActiveX type component.
Seriously.
And if you're talking ActiveX, either you're doing WINE or Windows (Linux has to use WINE and CE need not apply here- won't have support there... ;-) )- since most of the relevant websites that one would use a WebTablet on don't use ActiveX and one of the two aforementioned other "binary only" applications- then you're covered even with ARM.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It burns through batteries at a rate at least 4-5 times that of a similarly decked out ARM OMAP3 machine.
Rather than waving your hands, let's have some real numbers. The BeagleBoard, which is an OMAP3530, uses 1.8W, including the CPU, flash, 256MB of RAM, the DSP (fast enough for decoding 720p H.264) the GPU (PowerVR, OpenGL ES 2.0 compliant) and other on-board components. The only other power drain on a system built with one of these is the display and any wireless adaptors you plug in. The Via Nano draws up to 25W for just the CPU.
Now, the Nano is faster, but a lot of the most CPU-intensive things you
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
No... Nokia contracted with Adobe to produce a proper ARM Linux binary just for the Nxxx web tablets.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I do not know.
However, I would urge moderators to mod the grandparent down; TFA clearly mentions Ubuntu Linux.