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Zune HD Unveiled, Set For Fall Release
Posted by
Soulskill
on Wed May 27, 2009 12:13 PM
from the for-sufficiently-small-values-of-h dept.
from the for-sufficiently-small-values-of-h dept.
Several readers have written to mention that Microsoft has confirmed and unveiled the Zune HD. It has a "3.3-inch, 480 x 272 OLED capacitive touchscreen display, built-in HD Radio receiver, HD output," and it makes use of multi-touch input. More details will be forthcoming at E3, including how the device interacts with Xbox Live. Reader johnjaydk notes a PCWorld article that asks whether the Zune HD will be capable of competing with the iPod Touch. Quoting: "... the real competition between the Zune HD and the iPod Touch will come down to software. The new Zune will be based on a custom version of Windows CE, while the iPod Touch runs on the already popular iPhone platform, for which thousands of applications are available."
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Title (Score:5, Funny)
I first read that title as "Zune HD Unveiled, Set For Fail Release"
Re:Title (Score:4, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Release should be fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is late to the party. When the iPod first started gaining traction, Microsoft should have answered it not with a "I have one too!" response, but with a ten-up (as opposed to a one-up) on them.
Microsoft has an abundance of machines available from which they could have built their Windows CE "pocket entertainment system" long ago. The hardware technology was available long ago. Why they didn't do long ago what they are doing today is a mystery but I suspect it may have something to do with the same mentality behind the movie industry -- truly original works are deemed too risky so let other people take the risks and then we'll just make copies of whatever is successful. (How many "super hero" movies have there been in the past 6-7 years? It's ridiculous!) In any case, my point is that Microsoft could have done this long ago and probably SHOULD have done this long ago. "Finally getting it's act together?" Hardly. More like "Finally putting their tools to use."
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It's coming to Europe (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's coming to Europe (Score:5, Funny)
You can actually get the Zune up here in Canada, and contrary to popular belief we're not the 51st state ;)
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Re:It's coming to Europe (Score:5, Funny)
...contrary to popular belief we're not the 51st state ;)
When did this happen??? They seceded?
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Re:It's coming to Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
Will they replace the HD Radio with DAB radio for Britain and the other parts of Europe that use DAB?
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Huh... if missing the boat is making something that works really well, and has more features, I guess they did. My zune works flawlessly, has a better screen, wireless sync, and the ability to tune radio stations. Contrast with my wifes 2g ipod nano, which locks up randomly, repeats the same song endlessly, skips the the next song randomly, and lets not forget that abomination of software call iTunes, and the recommended fix from the apple store? "Buy a new 3G ipod!!" Which was the same answer they gave
OLED screen? (Score:3, Informative)
Will this be the first mass produced consumer product to use an OLED screen? I know I've been reading about them for some time, but other than one digital camera (i think) I don't know that I've heard of any products that will actually contain one. It will be interesting to see how it looks relative to other small media players.
If nothing else it's great that they're raising the bar.
Re:OLED screen? (Score:4, Informative)
No, OLED screens have been on devices for a while. Check out Cowon's sleak S9.
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Re:OLED screen? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:5, Funny)
With specs like that, I'm curious as to what their target demographic is? Apple already tied up the young, hip and ignorant. iRiver owns the cheap and techy. All that's left is the old and confused.
The Zune is like the Go-Bots of digital media players. It's what your grandmother will buy you for your birthday, knowing you like that "music thing"
Re:Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd have to say that their target demographic is probably everyone who bought an Xbox 360. The one piece of MS's gaming strategy that's been noticably lacking is the handheld. Now, it appears they're getting serious about it. I had high hopes for Zune integration when the 360 came out, and it just never happened. Then, XNA came out and it looked like things were going to happen in that space again, and then nothing. Maybe the old axiom about MS getting it right on the third shot is going to hold true, yet again?
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Don't knock the hardware (Score:4, Insightful)
The atrocious part about the Zune is the windows software. It was an abomination 2 years ago, and is still terrible. For a long period of time it wasn't available on Vista, Windows 64, or any version of Windows Media Center. Various hacks to the installer program proved it could be done- the limitation was an entirely unnecessary OS-check. The software is still a pig, but the hardware is good, and was cheap.
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Re:Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:4, Funny)
Dude, the Go-Bots were awesome!
If anyone moderates this funny I shall be offended :-p
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Until that Linux company I keep hearing about co
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You _can_ however, run the application in an emulator.
Re:Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:5, Informative)
So you need a digital certificate from Apple. Big deal. Once you get it ($99 developer fee - much cheaper than Visual Studio)
This is very different from what you've said in your original post up the thread:
You can develop iPhone/iTouch software and deploy it without any involvement by Apple. Just connect the computer with the application to your device.
You're also factually incorrect regarding the pricing. XNA Game Studio 3.0 (which is the VS edition that you'd use for Zune game development) is a free download, and you do not need to pay to run XNA games on Zune (Xbox is a different story, but we aren't talking about that here).
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Re:Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:5, Interesting)
Once you get it ($99 developer fee - much cheaper than Visual Studio)
Visual Studio Express, which is able to create full applications without limitations, is free. Yes, I can choose to pay for a better IDE. I'd rather that than have to pay a whacking $99 fee just for the privilege of development.
I'm always amazed how ignorant non-Microsoft users are about Microsoft's products and how much disinformation they spew. If you really want to know what you can or cannot do with an Microsoft device or software, you should ask the people who know - experienced Microsoft users. (For the mods who will no doubt interpret this as trolling, but the same statement about Apple as Informative. [slashdot.org])
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Re:Lousy screen, Low Storage (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And the pragmatic people going for MIN(price/GB)... All the wizz-bang wankery is pointless to me since I have to use it with linux, but it won out on the price, and it plays music.
Hmm.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully it will be compatible with Opera or other third party browsers.
HD, yeah.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:HD, yeah.. (Score:5, Funny)
Yay! It can finally allow me to read all those 1.4MB floppies I have in a box in a cupboard somewhere...
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And CE isn't popular? (Score:5, Insightful)
This makes it sound like CE is just some new kid on the block. I mean I don't deny the popularity of the iPhone platform and the benefit of their app store, but common, CE is no flash in the pan for applications either. Not to mention Visual Studio makes it a BREEZE to develop for.
Re:And CE isn't popular? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe the point is that while it is called "WinCE" any software labeled as "WinCE compatible" won't be compatible with this device, much like "PlaysForSure" on music guaranteed that it wouldn't.
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a custom version of Windows CE (Score:3, Informative)
Which means that anyone who can program for Win 2k/xp/vista/7 can program for the Zune. I've done WinMobile programming and it's easy in C#. Many apps can be easily ported from desktop to Mobile and back, with the main issue being the screen size.
The tuner (I assume it does regular FM if it does HD) is a big win here.
I wonder how hard it is to transcode video for it? If it's as easy as for iPhone (using Handbrake, for example)...
That's the whole issue (Score:3, Insightful)
Many apps can be easily ported from desktop to Mobile and back, with the main issue being the screen size.
That's the whole reason Windows Mobile has such problems, because in development you are basically targeting a desktop but the user doesn't HAVE a desktop, they have a mobile device with constrained screen and constrained input. It makes the applications developed fundamentally more frustrating than they are on OS's built around a mobile platform - like the Android, iPhone OS or even WebOS from Palm.
No
Re:That's the whole issue (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree -- I think there's a bunch of reasons WM has issues, and this is pretty low in the pecking order.
But specifically - when it comes to app design, it isn't so much a question of porting directly from the desktop -- it's a lack of mobile UI paradigms in the framework that stunts WM.
The easiest example is touch scrolling on the iphone vs. scroll bars on windows mobile. Scroll bars are a desktop paradigm. Touch scrolling is a mobile device paradigm. No mobile app should ever require the user to home in on a 2mm thick scroll bar using a 1-inch thick thumb. Not to mention the already limited screen real-estate that's getting wasted in displaying the scroll bar.
That's something MS needs to fix in their app development framework. Everyone writing / proting an app for WM shouldn't have to rewrite the code for that. Even if developers take the effort to do that, you get varying implementations resulting in an incoherent user experience (which is exactly what you have on WM).
Also consider radio buttons - why click on a tiny little circle instead of just using the entire text of the selection as the button itself, and use 3D effects to show which option is selected? An common zoom mechanism would be useful too. The start menu is a terrible idea on a screen as small as a QVGA -- a lot of people run out of space in the programs launcher on their desktops!!
The one thing I'll give WM a lot of credit for (which most people hate about it) -- the home/today screen. It actually gives me useful information unlike an iphone. I don't get any information from seeing a screen full of icons. They're useful, and it's nice to have everything so accessable, but keeping the icons one click away wouldn't have been too much overhead. The thing I miss on an iphone is being able to see my emails (broken down by account type - gmail/outlook/hotmail/etc.), my upcoming meetings, and being able to just type a contact name without needing to go to any screen. Those are the main functions of a 'communications' device that need to be available to me at all times, and WM absolutely nailed that aspect.
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HD radio is awesome! (Score:5, Informative)
I bought an HD radio just to check out the technology. The cheapest one I could find was $80--quite a bit for a radio. But the quality is spectacular (HD AM sounds better than the best non-HD FM reception), and you get more stations and metadata.
I am surprised that his hasn't caught on more yet. I believe it is because the chips needed for HD radios are still expensive. I sure hope the Zune drives down implementation costs and helps bring HD radio to the masses. Listening to NPR as if I'm right in the station is a great experience.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
its hard to find hd radios with spdif out (the industry doesn't like that and they try to make it hard).
that, and the fact that the audio is too compressed to be called 'hi fi'.
I'll pass.
Re:HD radio is awesome! (Score:4, Insightful)
I pass on the whole CONCEPT of a live real-time broadcast.
It amazes me how many people take this view, when there is no current data to back it up, and certainly no historical data. The concept of live radio is not at all like newspapers -- where the legacy form provides no advantage over the Internet-based form. Live radio is a fundamental form of communication, and it will live on well after the FM/AM bands have been removed.
I go through phases of listening to various podcasts and other on-demand media, but eventually the routine just gets boring: having to choose each episode, start it from the beginning, and HOPE that something interesting happens. I'd rather flip through the channels and "see what's on." Not to mention the whole communal aspect of listening to something when you /know/ thousands of others are listening at the same time.
Live broadcast mediums will always have a place. Any attempt to discard them is foolish.
-David Dombrowsky
Proud Broadcaster of a LIVE [6thstreetradio.org] internet radio station
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Re:HD radio is awesome!^Wlocked down (Score:5, Informative)
Part of the reason is that Ibiquity, the folks behind the HD radio standard, managed to get the FCC to approve a MANDATORY encryption key as a part of the standard. In other words, ALL HD radio traffic is encrypted with a key that you have to license from Ibiquity - full stop.
No matter if you can make your own decoder chip - you SHALL license the key from Ibiquity or you won't be able to decode ANY traffic.
And as a result, if you want to do something and Ibiquity doesn't want you to - you don't do it.
And Ibiquity doesn't want your spiffy new radio outputting any form of digital stream - no USB, no Firewire, no SPIDF, no Uncle Mikey.
So when Griffin wanted to have the RadioSharkHD stream the HD over USB to your computer - BZZZZT! Wrong answer.
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Looks Like a Duck (Score:4, Interesting)
It must suck to be an engineer at Microsoft. Ignoring the phat paycheck, it must really suck to work for a company that has largely given up on any semblance of innovation and is simply following the lead of other companies. I would imagine that many of their best and brightest are begging to explore some very cool ideas but are being held back by Microsoft's corporate culture... I feel for them...
Actually, they get paid magnitudes more than I do so I don't feel too bad for them...
I think Microsoft does not get it... (Score:3, Insightful)
I have Mac at home. I want to buy some music.
I do *not* go to Amazon.com or Walmart to buy my music more cheaply. I buy from ITunes because the whole F'ing process is streamlined. I don't have to think.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I think Microsoft does not get it... (Score:4, Informative)
To substitute "changing the station when an advert comes on" for "paying outrageous fees for data transfer".
To be able to listen to live broadcasts of sporting events without paying a membership fee to some site.
To take advantage of the economy of large-scale broadcast delivery instead of relatively expensive parallel non-broadcast media.
But you do get other things from broadcast radio that mp3 players don't as easily give you: exposure to new music, the ability to listen to music not in your catalog for free, without copyright infringement (I know, that may not be an issue for many slashdotters).
Yes, mp3 players have a lot of advantages, but they also have disadvantages. Cost to retrieve data and/or purchase music being the big ones in my book.
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Open up MTPZ (Score:4, Insightful)
You can get it in any color you want... (Score:4, Funny)
... as long as it's brown.
Microsoft App Store - Lame. (Score:3, Funny)
Smaller screen than an iPod Touch, Windows CE, Microsoft App Store - Lame.
Still feel MS just doesn't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
They are NOT the cool company. Nobody wants the MS logo (what is it actually?) on their fashion accesory MP3 player. For me to pay the premium that both MS and Apple demand, there got to be something in it that makes the premium worth while. Else I can just buy a FAR more capable music player from say iRiver, that can actually play more then just MP3/WMV/AAC.
Furthermore, Apple has already won the war, the retake lost ground, MS would have to do something innovative. They haven't. HD video output can only be done via a docking station. They never heard of mini-hdmi (or whatever the exact name is)?
HD Radio is a nice gimmick, but if want a portable radio, why would I need to buy a 300+ dollar device? There are cheaper options. Is the MP3/FLAC/ETC part of it also better quality? Got my doubts. For that matter, I am actually willing to bet that the HD radio is raped by the internal circuits till it sounds no better. The Apple devices are the same, terrible audio quality especially if you consider the high price. Silly me for expecting a device that costs 3x as much to sound 3x better :P
It uses a customer version of CE. Why? I can't think of any other reason then to limit cross spread of software. That it will have all kinds of build in limits that make building for it hard and impossible to share music. Exactly like MS has done countless times before including the previous Zunes.
MS just doesn't get it, nobody will buy their device simply for the logo and it ain't going to win over anyone that just wants a good portable music player.
Windows CE has a few applications too (Score:3, Informative)
Mod me down for defending Microsoft, but the note
"The new Zune will be based on a custom version of Windows CE, while the iPod Touch runs on the already popular iPhone platform, for which thousands of applications are available."
fails to acknowledge that Windows CE has been around a bit longer than the iPhone OS and has tons of applications available. Just sayin'.
What a relief (Score:4, Funny)
I had this nightmare, in which we experienced a severe shortage of irrelevant proprietary boxes designed for trivial purposes. THANK MICROSOFT!!!
Apps (Score:4, Interesting)
The Zune always had really good hardware. It had some silly restrictions (like on WiFi), and terrible marketing. Compare that to the iPod/iPhone, which is good hardware, silly restrictions, and great marketing...
Why does MS have to compete in EVERY market? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've never understood this business strategy. I don't see any intrinsic reason why Microsoft should seek to enter every possible technology market and leverage its enormous financial power and resources to do so.
They know Zune is a failed business venture. As a product, the Zune is unable to compete with the iPod on any meaningful level. And Microsoft management knows this. Yet they persist, not out of some altruistic desire to encourage competition, but because the executives (read: Ballmer) have too much hubris to concede that Apple has done something remarkable. They have succeeded in revolutionizing the portable media device. And with the iPhone, Apple has created nothing less than an integrated portable computing/communications/multimedia solution that is as stylish as it is easy to use. Is it perfect? Hardly. Was it the first to use each of its component technologies? No. But it is indisputable that it broke new ground by combining all these features into a single, easy-to-use device. And the only ones who still refuse to admit this are those who are aligned with Ballmer's distorted view of reality.
I have a healthy appreciation for the competition--Google (Android), RIM (Blackberry), Palm (Pre), Nokia (N9x), and yes, even Microsoft (Zune/Windows Mobile). It's important that these guys are around to keep Apple on its toes. But let's not fool ourselves into believing that these are the good guys for fostering that competition. If they were truly good, they would have recognized the importance of innovating beyond what they see in Apple's offerings, rather than simply trying to make a comparable product. Where was their vision before Apple dominated the field? No, they were too busy being complacent. We saw tiny, incremental changes in the mobile device market for years until the iPhone blew everyone away. The same was true of the pre-iPod MP3 market. Apple lit a fire under their collective asses and now hardware manufacturers are going nuts trying to make the next "iPod/iPhone/iWhatever" killer.
The Zune will never be successful as long as it is deprived of a true vision. It isn't enough to mimic another device or its success. That's what Microsoft does not understand. They never have understood what makes a product work. The ubiquity of their bread-and-butter Windows has brought them enormous financial success and market share, but with that it has brought laziness and sloppy management. They can afford to push out half-assed products. Windows will still be there to keep the money coming in. They don't have to be hungry, visionary, or risk-taking, like Apple has had to be for decades. They've made some real blunders (G4 cube, 20th Anniversary Mac, the Lisa, Mac OS licensing, Centris/Quadra/Performa bloated product line,... I could go on but I think you get the point). But they have had enormous successes as well. Microsoft could make Zune amazing. Any company could, given that much money and talent. But that's not what they really want. They don't want to make something better than an iPhone or an iPod. They want to make something just good enough superficially, with as little attention to detail as possible, just so they can say they have some market penetration.
Microsoft has not wanted to make a better 'something' for DECADES. When a company stops caring about providing the best possible user experience, I stop caring about that company's products.
Re:People said the same thing about Xbox failing.. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While the XBOX and the XBOX 360 are decent, the Sony equivalents are much the same. The Wii spanked BOTH those in terms of sales and popularity. Is the Wii making or losing money for Nintendo? What about the XBOX 360 part of Microsoft, how is that affecting the bottom line? We still have potential lawsuits over faulty hardware to take into account.
Microsoft do have a habit of not seeing a potential money making sector as it grows, until it's big
Re:Zune (Score:5, Funny)
Q: What do you call a bunch of Zunes?
A: Overstock
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