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Palm Kills Community Before It Begins
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Fri May 22, 2009 01:04 PM
from the almost-like-they-don't-need-people-to-buy-their-stuff dept.
from the almost-like-they-don't-need-people-to-buy-their-stuff dept.
Former Fan of Palm writes to tell us that an enthusiastic, supportive developer community has fallen victim to corporate ineptitude once again. The preDevCamp started as a community-driven effort designed to mirror the iPhoneDevCamp based on the new "Pre" product announced by Palm. Unfortunately, suspicion and legal posturing seems to have gutted the founders of any and all enthusiasm they may have once had. When will corporations realize that community support is the best way to drive success? "As a corporation, I acknowledge that Palm's only responsibility is to its shareholders. There's nothing self serving or evil about that; it's how things work in big business. However there are many keen and willing developers out there, who have been waiting for the arrival of WebOS. A development platform is only a success if it is broadly adopted. Instead of embracing the grassroots upswell of interest in WebOS that preDevCamp fostered, Palm seem to be, at best, oblivious and, at worst, disdainful of the enthusiasm and good will engendered by these folk. I think they are missing a real opportunity to be involved in and to help generate the growth of a vital community."
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Palm Pulls the Plug On Palm OS 300 comments
BobB-nw writes to tell us that Palm has decided to kill their PalmOS operating system and is instead betting their future on a still mostly unknown Palm webOS. Very little is known about the new Palm webOS, but it will supposedly support HTML5 and enable a local data store so that applications can be used both online and off. All of this is rolled into a Linux framework with a message bus based on JSON. Will be interesting to see where they take it.
Submission: Palm kills community before it begins. by Anonymous Coward
[+]
Technology: Palm Pre To Sync Seamlessly With iTunes 178 comments
Wired is reporting that Palm's new handheld device, the Pre, will be able to sync automagically with Apple's iTunes. Thanks to a team of ex-Apple engineers the Pre will sync everything but iPhone applications and some of the older Fairplay DRM music. "It does it by faking out iTunes, making the jukebox software think that it is connected to a real iPod. Hook it up and you'll be given three options: USB mass storage device, charging only or iTunes sync. This is a ballsy move from Palm, and we totally love it: a big fat middle finger at Apple. Apple will, we are sure, be readying its legal attack dogs as I write, and don't be at all surprised if an iTunes update pops up around June 6th. This fight just got a lot more interesting."
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Hah! (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, this is certainly an interesting article to be reading as I am looking for a replacement for my aging Tungsten E.
Guess who I probably won't be going with this time?!
Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)
Windows Mobile?
When it comes down to it...like it or not...Windows Mobile is the most open phone OS.
They are the most supportive for developers. No roadblocks, nothing. I can write a program today, and distribute it over the web without any problems.
Every part of the Phone OS is open to me. My carrier cannot block a single thing from running on my phone.
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Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)
bullshit.
android followed closely by symbian OS is the most open there is.
carriers regularly block GPS capability on windows mobile phones.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Honestly...I completely forgot about Android.
But I have had quite a bit of trouble with Symbian, much less so with Windows Mobile.
Re:Hah! (Score:5, Funny)
Honestly...I completely forgot about Android.
.
It takes a big man to admit his mistake.
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Re:Hah! (Score:4, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3)
Mod parent up. It's not the OS's fault. It's carrier - induced BS. As delivered, Windows Mobile is an extremely open OS that follow the development ethics of the desktop.
It's the equivalent of Dell shipping PCs with custom XP installs that don't allow USB drives or something. Not Microsoft's fault.
Personally, I believe this is due more to stupidity than altruism on Microsoft's part, but it's better for the community. A modified Hanlon's razor perhaps applies?
P.S. I'm no Windows Mobile fanboy, but I do
Re:Hah! (Score:4, Funny)
If, by open, do you mean in the same fashion as goatse? If it's anything like it's parent OS, I'll have to agree;)
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And yet.. (Score:4, Interesting)
And where do you get "most open phone OS"?
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Re:And yet.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll stick with RIM/Blackberry (which also has an active and seemingly open developer community) until a Android phone I like comes along.
Are you posting from the mirror universe? When I had a company-provided BlackBerry, I went looking for apps. The only "free" one I found was Opera Mini, AKA Opera Please-Trust-Us-Not-To-Steal-All-Your-Personal-Data-That-Is-Being-Proxied-And-Modified-By-Our Servers-Including-HTTPS-Traffic. I tried out a couple of shareware/paid apps and was amazingly unimpressed. One was a replacement browser which managed to be even less usable than RIM's, and the other was a server-based wrapper for MS Office/OpenOffice that would take screenshots of Office docs and make them available for the phone so they'd look correct, because RIM's viewer/editor programs were so lacking in features.
On the other hand, now that I have a G1, I've found a ton of useful, completely free applications. It doesn't have Exchange ActiveSync (yet), but since it's my personal phone I'm not in a huge hurry to get that anyway. Also, it has a browser that actually works.
If there's a whole world of BlackBerry stuff I missed, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it, though.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For now.
I wonder how long that will last. Microsoft copies all things Apple. My bet it will be just a matter of time before it puts in an AppStore and locks things down.
Microsoft has never seen a revenue stream it didn't love.
Re:Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. And that's exactly how MS got their desktop monopoly.
Piracy was rampant in the 80s and 90s. DOS and Windows disks were passed around like the town bicycle, along with CD keys. If a really big shop was caught selling pirated copies of their software, there might be a fuss, but casual copying and even smaller businesses buying one copy and pre-installing it on all of their machines was pretty much overlooked.
A lot of people have theorized that Microsoft allowed this to go on to gain marketshare. It's better to have your OS pirated and installed on a machine than for your competitors to make a sale, in the long run. There's always time to lock everything down once you've gotten the monopoly.
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Re:Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Hah! (Score:4, Insightful)
What a tragedy. The iPhone is what the Palm should have been 4 or even 5 years ago.
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Re:Hah! (Score:4, Insightful)
All major corps always have senior positions available, all the time.
They have open reqs, but trust me they aren't exactly filling them. A lot of companies with branch offices keep reqs open just to determine interest by area. Others have reqs open in the hopes that an applicant from a competitor will apply (i.e. pretrained for a specific job, knowledgable about tools and processes used elsewhere, and potentially a bit of a sting when you steal him).
If you send your resume around to some of these places, no matter how well qualified, you never hear back.
It feels like a scam some days.
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Re:Hah! (Score:5, Informative)
Why?
Really all that happened is these guys talked to Palm about setting this up, signed and NDA, got a meeting set up, then some yo yo tweeted about it and probably violated the NDA.
So the meeting got canceled.
No take down notice or anything like that. Now they are all upset and posting about how unfair this is and Slashdot picks it up and runs with it.
Well just what are you going to replace your Tungsten E with then?
Windows Mobil, iPhone, S60 maybe?
Good grief folks get some perspective. Palm my end up sucking but the Pre may be great. Seems way out of line to get bent before the phone is even out yet.
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Re:NDA didn't include talking about metting (Score:4, Insightful)
You have the NDA?
Palm has a huge stake in the Pre. Right now the company is ridding on it and it has not been released yet.
Again it is all just fluff and bother for now. These guys just wanted to get in first and become the place for Pre stuff and probably generate ad revenue.
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Nitwits (Score:5, Informative)
If I'm reading correctly, Palm hasn't done anything.
It seems they signed some NDAs and had a meeting set up. Then one of the guys posted to Twtiter something about the meeting, and as a result Palm canceled the meeting.
That's it.
Am I missing something? If not, these guys are tards and making a big deal out of nothing.
Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it also appears that the balance of their complaint is "we just wanna help and Palm hasn't fallen all over itself to appease us like they must".
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Re:Nitwits (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then one of the guys posted to Twtiter something about the meeting, and as a result Palm canceled the meeting.
All the guy said in Twitter that they were having a meeting with Palm and nothing content related to what they were discussing.
If that is the reason, then its piss poor community relations. If they guy gave details about what was covered then perhaps that would violate NDA.
Either way, the behavior of Palm towards its community developers isn't going to get anyone to do them any favors at this point.
Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing you've never read an NDA from a large corporation. Just the act of mentioning the NDA is often a violation of it - let alone that you are scheduled to meet with them!
The idiots who think they can re-interpret what an NDA means get what they deserve.
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NDA's are worthless if nobody cares. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nitwits (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the very existence of the meeting may have been covered by the NDA.
But the contract they signed with these guys was based on no business partnership whatsoever. Palm would have to basically just trust them to abide by the NDA.
The fact that they twittered about the meeting right after they signed the NDA probably didn't really foster trust in the relationship.
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So they cancelled a meeting? (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok. So some guys who don't have experience with WebOS want to do a "dev camp". OK, more power to them. Palm reaches out, wanting to encourage this sort of thing.
The blogger in the linked article then gets an NDA to sign for an upcoming meeting. And then the meeting is canceled... and because they canceled one meeting, obviously palm is "killing" a development community?
I wonder if Mr. "dancrumb" (Dan Crumb?) was just harping about the HTML + javascript model not being "real" programming, and the OS guys over at Palm realized that a community that didn't want to , you know, write web-style-apps for WebOS wasn't the first developer community they wanted to help?
Wasn't even the meeting.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I might be missing something, but the fact that they were even having a meeting with Palm would have been covered by the NDA, wouldn't it?
If they started talking before even the first meeting took place it's not surprising Palm pulled the plug.
Read the article (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like these guys got overzealous that they had signed an NDA and were to meet with Palm, so much so that they couldn't refrain from posting a tweet about it.
It's likely that one of the conditions of the NDA was that they could not discuss the NDA at all. By claiming they had signed one, in preparation for a meeting with Palm, it was probably a sign that they couldn't keep their enthusiasm contained long enough to even meet with Palm.
This is speculation on my part, but this is how it seems reading the article. When dealing with corporations and NDAs, one must be careful what one does - the old adage: "loose lips sinks ships" comes to mind.
Palm lost the plot years ago... (Score:3, Insightful)
Palm lost the plot years ago, when they decided they wanted to make a laptop replacement to compete with the Pocket PC... even though they were kicking the Pocket PC 4:1 in the market even years after the iPaq allegedly "legitimized" the Windows Powered handheld.
They could have had Palm handhelds PROFITABLY for sale for $40-$50 in every grocery store in the US, if they'd followed the price-performance curve down to mass market levels. They could have sold entry level models for cost to school districts and replace the Ti-83 and equivalents in classrooms, and everyone would be using Palms and Palm Powered cellphones... but no, Compaq/HP had the ARM-based Pocket PCs and Palm wanted that last 20% of the market... and lost it all.
Meh (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure a canceled meeting is newsworthy, but I do feel like Palm isn't bending over backwards to help developers.
There's still no SDK (I applied to be part of the second limited release - no response), and the SDK ain't exactly complicated - it's javascript - they don't need to do much else than provide the standard packages and put in some new keyword highlights, and get an simulator out. Also there's zero published documentation - I only get PDF updates from the O'Reilly book chapter by chapter as it's written, and even the emulator to get PalmOS apps on WebOS is third party.
Palm has enough competition with App stores - everyone from Blackberry to SymbianOS is getting their hands dirty with App stores this year. Palm's strength is its developers, and it seems they're going to just let this whole advantage go as they dribble out the SDK at a snail's pace.
When? (Score:5, Insightful)
When will corporations realize that community support is the best way to drive success?
When it's true.
Sorry nerds, the best way to drive success is to dangle shiny bobbles in front of the plebes, and charge them out the ass for it.
Deal with it.
devHissyFit (Score:4, Funny)
not to worry, clearly these jokers are very well equipped to relaunch under a new name: devHissyFit
Communications have not broken down with Palm (Score:5, Interesting)
Pam was very eager to know what we need to have a successful event, and I expect to have their full co-operation going forward. It just needs to be a bit more on their terms than whurley, Giovanni, and Dan anticipated.
There's a thread open regarding preDevCamp on the Palm Developer Network forums with at least three Palm employees actively participating (VP Pam, Community Manager Chuq, and Chuq's boss). Maybe yesterday's news put the fear of God in Palm, but they're definitely willing to work with the community to ensure that preDevCamp is successful.
Not all hope is lost (Score:5, Informative)
Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)
So by way of example, whenever you earn money you keep just enough to live and give the rest to local charity?
Oh, but you clearly have access to a computer, so that's probably not true.
Get off your high horse about "right action". Hypocrisy is the essence of pure evil.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, one doesn't need to be utterly self-denying. GP's statement was phased differently by Bill and Ted: "Be excellent to each other." A Slashdotter, however, might require the double-negative form: "don't be an asshat." ;-) Neither of these forms include "to the exclusion of oneself."
Paying attention to one's own needs is basic to the ability to interact with the world in a healthy way. People (and corporations) who deny this tend to get rather screwed up and/or end up playing doormat to others' desires
Re:contrary (Score:5, Funny)
Overreaction is the essence of pure evil.
No. Describing things as the essence of pure evil is the essence of pure evil.
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Re:contrary (Score:4, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, recursion is the recursion.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Recursion is recursion (see: Recursion).
Re:contrary (Score:5, Informative)
Right action demands serving all people and the most in need first not shareholders. In plain terms a corporation is about the essence of pure evil.
By that logic, if I don't live in a shack and give away all the money I don't absolutely need, I must be an evil, immoral person. Right and wrong are determined by culture and society. In our culture, a business has a duty to maximize shareholder value because shareholders have essentially loaned the corporation the money it needs to operate. If I loan you money, it is correct in our society to pay it back with agreed upon interest; there's very little difference between that and a corporation maximizing shareholder value.
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Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Maximizing short term or long term profits (Score:5, Insightful)
Corporations maximize shareholder value, and then we, as shareholders, determine whether that value is used for good or for evil. Sorry- not all of that was directed at you, just the definitional part at the beginning.
I think a lot of companies fail to realize that short term profit maximization often is contrary to long term profit maximization.
Sure, they could make a lot more money being bastards to their community and suing their customers and competitors, but over long term they will loose "good will" and suffer long term profits.
Personally, I'd rather own shares in a company that treats its employees, customers, and community with respect simply because that will mean they'll be around in 20 years with maximized gains.
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Re:Maximizing short term or long term profits (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
By that logic, if I don't live in a shack and give away all the money I don't absolutely need, I must be an evil, immoral person.
According to a lot of regions... Including Christianity.
Yes, you are.
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."
>
I'll admit. I'm not a Christian (and yet I'm here quoting bible verses) so I understand perhaps this view is flawed, but arguably if you take it from a religious point of v
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'll admit. I'm not a Christian (and yet I'm here quoting bible verses) so I understand perhaps this view is flawed, but arguably if you take it from a religious point of view of Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism then yes you are supposed to give all your things away you don't need a live in a shack.
You can't just take one verse from the Bible and get a whole lot of meaning out of it. You have to look at it in context. Jesus often times did things to make a point, and this is one of those cases.
Prior to this passage (I'm paraphrasing now), a man asked Jesus what he had to do to get eternal life. Jesus told him to follow God's commandments, which the man claimed he did since he was a child. Jesus told him "Cool, now go sell all your stuff, give the money to the poor, and follow me." When Jesus said tha
Re:contrary (Score:5, Insightful)
Disclaimer: IAAC. I know several wealthy Christians, even one -ridiculously- wealthy one, and I'm talking real, dyed-in-the-wool, no-hypocrisy-within-sight Christians. Depending on your point of view, I might be considered wealthy. Certainly, as a computer programmer in America who's doing alright despite "this economy" (thank God), I'm more wealthy than the majority of the world's population.
If "Christianity" forbad lending, I don't know where "they" got it from. There are scriptures dealing with usury in the old testament. It was alright to lend with interest, just not to someone else of the faith. ;-)
I'm writing to note that it's "easier" for the camel, but not impossible. The trick here is that it's the LOVE of money which is the root of all evil, according to scripture, not money itself. King David was one of the richest people the world had ever seen back in his day, and he was "a man after God's own heart."
Take this for what it's worth, but since you seemed so reasonable (on Slashdot?!), I just wanted to chime in with my view.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
After all, without wealth, no one would ever have been able to devote the time, energy, and resources necessary to developing any but the most rudimentary of technologies.
Umm... Who is your history teacher so I can slap them because you've just discounted all the Greek, Roman, and Renaissance innovators and inventors? Yes, many of them had patrons, but most of these guys weren't wealthy themselves. (And ironically some of the Scientists during the 1500's were monks and church leaders themselves)
Also you've
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Especially those 501(c)(3) corporations. Rotten to the core, every one of them!
Re:Right action? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's see...
- I'm going to pay a hell of a lot less for the same kind of data usage/plan from Sprint than I would from an iPhone provider.
- I don't want to switch carriers anyway
- The device is cheaper
- It has a physical keyboard
- I don't want to run iTunes
- My primary need is a MID, not a media device
- I don't need storage, I need capabilities