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Does Dell Know What Women Want In a Laptop?

Posted by kdawson on Fri May 15, 2009 08:29 AM
from the fashion-don't dept.
Portables Businesses Hardware
Hugh Pickens writes "Finding the right approach for gender-specific marketing can be really tricky, said Andrea Learned, a marketing expert and author of Don't Think Pink — What Really Makes Women Buy. So when Dell recently took the wraps off a new Web site called Della, geared toward women, featuring tech 'tips' that recommended calorie counting, finding recipes, and watching cooking videos as ways for women to get the most from a laptop, a backlash erupted online, as both women and men described the Web site as 'ridiculous' and 'gimmicky.' Della's heavy emphasis on colors, computer accessories, dieting tips, and even the inclusion of a video about vintage shopping 'seems condescending to women consumers,' says Learned. Instead, Dell should have emphasized function and figured out ways to sell the netbooks that weren't clichéd and reliant on gender stereotypes. 'Some brands go too far with the girlie stuff,' Learned says. 'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'"
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  • Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth (Score:5, Insightful)

    by elrous0 (869638) * on Friday May 15 2009, @08:31AM (#27965195)
    Sorry to be politically-incorrect here. But just because some people find a certain stereotype demeaning doesn't necessarily make it a complete falsehood. Sure, it's stereotypical to say that women like pink, pretty accessories, shoes, knick-knacks they can put on a million shelves on the wall (instead of the movie posters that belong there), a pink cover on the toilet, decorative soaps, scented candles, etc., etc. But you know what? That "stereotype" effectively describes 4 out my 5 last girlfriends, my mother, all my aunts, and a solid majority of female friends I've had over the years.
    • Hey, we didn't get these stereotypes out of thin air, most often any stereotype comes from observed reality of the actions/traits a certain strata of the population exhibits a great deal of the time.

      I really hate this PC era...everyone needs to lighten up a bit, learn to laugh at themselves, and others. Quit looking for a reason to be offended.

      • "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!" (from: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1489/why-do-people-say-hear-hear [straightdope.com])

        Indeed, it appears too many people have too many long toes that, defying all normal laws of physics, appear to extend through the entire internet! Offense here, offense there, no more exclamations of fuck and damn, self-censorship and, ultimately, a bland, offenseless society which will take offense at the slightest of bumps in the bland.

        It all could improve with a little understanding (http://ted.com/ for your weekly dose of understanding).

        B.

      • Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth (Score:5, Insightful)

        by kandela (835710) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:51AM (#27965509)

        By marketing at stereotypes, you reinforce them. By treating women like they aren't tech savvy, you're making them feel uncomfortable about being tech savvy.

        If you think I'm talking nonsense then try this experiment. I assume you are a guy with a comment like that. So, go to the department store. Find and buy a pink jacket/shirt and wear it for a month. When someone comments, or asks why you are wearing pink, reply that you like the colour. Then after a month, come back to me and tell me how comfortable you felt about doing it.

        • I'd feel a bit uncomfortable wearing *any* shirt for a month. EEeew.

        • Then after a month, come back to me and tell me how comfortable you felt about doing it.

          I'm not the OP but I did wear a pink shirt for a while when I had to wear a tie. It was a very nice pink. Only one person asked me about the color and I had no problem telling them I liked the color of the shirt.

          That said, I also have a wonderful, no-longer-able-to-find tangerine-colored shirt which I wear in the cooler months. I would like to find more shirts like this but retailers, aside from not carrying clothes in my size, are more interested in grey, black and white than they are about splashy colors to liven up ones day.

          But that's just me. I'm still trying to find a neon-yellow shirt I saw at a store closeout but wasn't in my size. It's from a well known manufacturer but I haven't been able to find that shirt anywhere.

          While stereotypes, as others have pointed, are there for a reason, there are always exceptions to the rule.

        • Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth (Score:5, Insightful)

          by sopssa (1498795) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:16AM (#27966021)

          I really doubt their intention is to target and stereotype all women in the world. They're targeting a niche, and to be honest, lots of girls like those things. If they dont, they dont need to use or buy it. Simple as that. Hell, it would be kind of kinky to see a girl with similar gaming, entertainment and programming equipment to mine.

          However, lots of girls I've seen and dated (including my current girlfriend) would like those, despite the fact that they also like lots of different things. But men and women do see and act to things differently usually, so its good someone also tries to market to that 'niche' (I wouldn't really call it a niche tho).

          Also lots of girls aren't tech savvy. Yes, there's girls that are (wohoo), but men generally are way more interested in technology and such. Or why do you think men have to get the biggest, loudest and latest TV sets with hifi sounds, while most girls are ok with some normal tv if they can just watch it (and not bother too much with it)

          and btw, pink shirts have been in men's fashion for a few years. I doubt anyone comes comment about it.

          • I'm still not sure why cooking is always lumped in with the stereotypical female thing. There's a lot of guys that are good cooks, and some of the best professional chefs you see on the food network are men. There are surveys [columbuswired.net] out there that show that cooking is not just a female-dominated thing. Women are more likely to cook, "for the family", so it's more of their chore. Men are more likely to cook as a hobby, so they get into some of the more gourmet stuff. So I'd say this "stereotype" is "busted",...

      • Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MadKeithV (102058) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:02AM (#27965751)
        Indeed, I think the following Einstein quote applies:

        Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

      • I don't think anyone's particularly saying they're offended, just that the marketing scheme is a bit of a joke.

        Imagine they made a website targeting a male stereotype, showing a laptop being used in some sports context on a backdrop of explosions and guitar riffs. I can only assume the average Slashdotter would chuckle and treat it as if it were marketing to 'dumb jocks', pointing out that it didn't even mention the technical merits of the machine. We wouldn't be offended, but I think most people here would look down on the site with something between disdain and pity. I expect the phrase "How stupid do they think we are?" would come up, with people wondering why one wouldn't just buy it on the normal Dell site where actual product comparisons are available.

        That's what people are saying here - not that it's deeply offensive, just that the level of sophistication is laughable and that talking down to one's customers is a quick way to lose them.

    • Just because they're true doesn't mean they want to be reminded about them. It's like telling that girlfriend she should go on a diet, or that she looks fat in those jeans.
    • If I had a dime for every time I've heard a woman say, "I'm not like other women." Every woman thinks all other women are pretty much the same and that they themselves are different and unique.

      I used universals to incite a flame war. Hey it's Friday!

    • ...but consider:

      • Stereotypes usually come from anecdotal sampling, rather than hard numbers. Why should we put stock in them?
      • A "kernel of truth" says nothing about the relative size of the effect. E.g. even if women prefer pink on average, how predictive is that statement for a particular female consumer? What are the error bars?
      • Even if a stereotype is correct, on average, using it as the basis for marketing is usually dumb because the group you are targeting may well be offended by the implication of the stereotype. Again, even if it is true, you may do more damage than good in using that marketing angle.
      • Even if a stereotype is correct in some context, that doesn't mean it translates to others. For instance even if women on average prefer pink, that doesn't mean they want pink laptops. Clothes tend to be aesthetic purchases, whereas laptops tend to be functional purchases. Thus the priority for a woman shopping for a laptop may be totally uncorrelated to color. (Or maybe it is correlated--but anecdotes and stereotypes do not suffice to make that determination.)
      • Stereotypes often arise from cultural forces and even "self-fulfilling prophecies". They are not necessarily intrinsic. From a marketing perspective, the provenance of a trend usually doesn't matter; but from a "treat people with respect" perspective it can be relevant. For instance the "blue=boy and pink=girl" motif is relatively recent. In fact some sources from the 1800s contend that pink is the correct clothing color for baby boys.
      • Stereotypes are frequently generalized illogically. E.g. "girls like pink; I saw I guy wearing a pink shirt yesterday; that guy must be girlie and weak" (this includes both the unfounded pink->girl and girl->weak assumptions).
      • Stereotypes describe one aspect of a class at the expense of others. E.g. maybe women on average like pink, but is that really the defining feature of that class? Is that the most pertinent thing to focus on? Even if true, the choice to focus on that trivializes the identity of the class.

      Point being: stereotypes are looked-down upon for a reason. They are spurious, frequently unhelpful, often downright wrong, and usually rather insulting.

  • Eurgh (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DavidR1991 (1047748) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:34AM (#27965247) Homepage

    I hate stuff like this - it makes me cringe. Same with video games that are overtly aimed at girls. I mean, fair enough, target audience - but for crying out loud, don't just soil the thing in stereotypes.

    Keep it subtle in multiple directions, and you open up to multiple target audiences (including women) rather than targetting one area poorly, and driving it away

  • Dudette you're getting a Dell! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mc1138 (718275) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:34AM (#27965251) Homepage
    Dell probably spent millions on research figuring out what they thought was the magic bullet in marketing a laptop to women. Focus groups, design teams of women, and they might have even found things that a majority of their women customers are interested in.

    And they blew it. No woman actually wants to be told they should check out dieting tips, that's like telling a wife/girlfriend she looks fat in those jeans. On top of that even if a lot of women are interested in cooking and recipes it comes out in very bad taste when you release your laptop for women as an extension or helper of domestic chores. I wonder if the wives of Dell executives are upset, or maybe they're too busy doing the dishes and cooking dinner to even know what's going on...

    • Re:Dudette you're getting a Dell! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MyLongNickName (822545) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:38AM (#27965331) Journal

      I wonder if the wives of Dell executives are upset, or maybe they're too busy doing the dishes and cooking dinner to even know what's going on...

      I dunno. Maybe we should ask the wife of their marketing executive [dell.com].

    • Re:Dudette you're getting a Dell! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by feepness (543479) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:01AM (#27965741) Homepage

      I wonder if the wives of Dell executives are upset, or maybe they're too busy doing the dishes and cooking dinner to even know what's going on...

      Interesting that you assume all the executives are straight males. Who's not being PC here again?

    • Re:Dudette you're getting a Dell! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by je ne sais quoi (987177) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:03AM (#27965783)

      On top of that even if a lot of women are interested in cooking and recipes it comes out in very bad taste when you release your laptop for women as an extension or helper of domestic chores.

      It's not just that. Let's say hypothetically that Dell's marketing department has decided that in order to reach the male demographic better, they're going to start putting sports news on their web-site. Now, does anyone really think that putting sports news on their web-site is a good idea? No, of course not, it's totally irrelevant to the process of buying a computer, if I want sports news, I'll go to espn or something. Dell would pretty quickly get a reputation for being complete idiots doing this. It's one thing to try and appeal to the female demographic by targeted marketing, but it's another to do it badly, which is what Dell did here. Just like nobody wants sports while buying computers, nobody wants recipes either.

      Between this and the Adamo [slashdot.org] ads, I think that Dell is rapidly destroying any desirability or panache they ever had (think Apple products). But then again, they never really got much after those "Dude, you're getting a Dell" commercials, I myself just kind of forgot about it. I think they're pretty much doomed to stay the mundane computer manufacturer like this though.

  • News flash... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Overzeetop (214511) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:34AM (#27965259) Journal

    In the top ten percent of the personal market, women want very similar things to men. In the bottom 90, they want pink frilly stuff. If you want the 90%, you have to figure out how to silence the 10% of people you're going to offend.

    Hint: Men are the same way (not the pink part). Give them sports data and stuff with their favorite team logos.

    Business is a whole different world...

  • 'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'

    If you add the level of sophistication, you might be perceived as thinking men are incapable of it. While it's socially ok to think of men as the lesser stupider sex today, I don't think that solves the problem.

    If I may impart my engineer's point of view on this topic, don't divide your customers on controversial lines. The fact that you made it any different shopping as a man or woman is going to cause the public to pick apart each site with the finest toothed comb and set to you like dogs. Because it's an old battle and women have very real memories of the glass ceiling and at least some form of repression.

    You aren't making an Ebonics themed site for African Americans and you aren't making a talk-over-your-head snooty themed site for Caucasian Americans. Why? Because it's a sensitive issue. Any subtle difference will cause you to catch hell. Why, I'm going to get torn apart for the adjectives I used above because I'm sure some words have baggage meaning they're slightly better or worse than others.

    Are you going to make different purchase sites for Hindus, Jews, Moslems and Christians? Nope. Say it with me now: because it's a sensitive issue.

    Are you going to make a homosexual themed site so that homosexuals can be distinguished between buyers that are heterosexual. Again, see above.

    There's a list that goes on and on ... frankly, I'm a customer. I expect to be treated the same as another customer unless I have chosen to be treated differently. And if I chose to be treated differently, you better be careful or you'll lose me as a customer. You want to make a Trek themed site to target Trek fans? Fine, but don't you dare pay for images of Scott Bakula or the deal's off.

    Don't Think Pink -- What Really Makes Women Buy

    Thank god a woman wrote that. If it was a man, I'm sure there would have been a march on Washington.

    Why do you even start this up again? Are you really running out of marketing ideas that the only thing left is controversy? Haven't we learned our lesson time and time again?

    Here's an idea if you want a marketing gimmick: pick non-sensitive topics. When a popular super hero movie comes out, make good guy versus bad guy themes and always allow the customer to go to the regular site? Or make generic themes that have no conflict at the center?

  • Does ANYONE Know What Women Want? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Manip (656104) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:37AM (#27965313)

    Since I was born I've learned only three things about women:
    - No two are alike
    - No two want the same thing
    - What a women wants changes from moment to moment

    But that all being said, I'd try and sell Laptops via a "Aspirational Lifestyle" (e.g. "You're a 20~ successful, confident, and stylish women. This is the laptop for you.").

    Then produce a bunch of stylish laptops that match that "look." Or match the look of the women in my adverts to my laptops. Either way, the people who aspire to "be that thing" will buy the laptop to do so...

  • Because there's already a clock on the stove.

  • Sales still great! (Score:4, Funny)

    by RemoWilliams84 (1348761) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:39AM (#27965343)

    FTA

    "Despite the backlash from women about the sexist advertising schemes, sales of the Delldo (Dell's new dildo mount for laptops and pc's) was spectacular."

  • The problem is marketing towards "women" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GodfatherofSoul (174979) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:42AM (#27965399)
    Whenever you make these broad generalizations, there's always going to be the fringe outsiders offended by the stereotype. Dell should have picked a different metaphor that clearly indicates "girly" without saying it. Maybe, market one towards mothers (not women) where there are distinct duties like feeding kids making recipes relevant. Bundle apps for roles and not sex.

  • so what would be condescending towards men? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by petes_PoV (912422) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:44AM (#27965437)
    If someone created a website aimed at attracting men and used images of fast cars, busty models and bottles of beer, would those "stereotypes" be condescending to men?

    If so, there are a hell of a lot of very successful condescending websites and magazines about. Now I'm not saying that all men would be attracted to sites like that, just like not all women would be attracted to pink-themed sites, makeup tips and fashion. However, the difference is that men don't go around wailing at how they're being "exploited" or belittled or generalised by these things. They either visit them or ignore them. I would suggest that if women want to see themselves as equal to men they adopt a similar approach and either like it or ignore it ..... unless the thing they really dislike is themselves, individually, being so easy to categorise.

    • Re:so what would be condescending towards men? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by gnasher719 (869701) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:57AM (#27965631)

      If someone created a website aimed at attracting men and used images of fast cars, busty models and bottles of beer, would those "stereotypes" be condescending to men?

      Absolutely. Thinking that I might buy your product because you add a picture of a busty model _is_ stupid and condescending. Unless your product is busty models.

  • Obvious (Score:5, Funny)

    by Junior J. Junior III (192702) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:48AM (#27965465) Homepage

    A woman's laptop should use one of those IBM Thinkpad TrackPoint things for the pointer device.

  • After the protest against dell is over (Score:5, Insightful)

    by joeflies (529536) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:52AM (#27965531)

    Then will the same groups go on to shut down Better Homes, Oprah, Family Circle and Good Housekeeping magazines? These magazines are focused on women and only publish articles on calorie counting, cooking tips, recipies, and shopping. Won't the same groups think these magazines stereotype women as being stay at home moms? Or does it simply address the needs of a particular marketing segment?

  • It's got WINGS!!! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by erroneus (253617) on Friday May 15 2009, @08:53AM (#27965565) Homepage

    I hate marketing. Put out the plain truth and let people decide for themselves. That's my thinking. Unfortunately, any company that follows my advice will be out of business in a short time.

    But Dell? I gotta tell ya, when it comes to marketing to women, never focus your marketing on what women actually do with their computers! Focus your marketing on how their computers make them look and feel! Almost all successful marketing targeting women focus on image and lifestyle that they all "wish" they had. Feminine hygiene products all talk about the "things you can do with confidence!" when only a very small percentage of the women who buy them are light enough to actually walk in the sand without leaving giant craters, can play tennis for more than 5 minutes or even know how to fly a kite. Clothes and jewelry are another classic and obvious example -- all displayed by supermodels and mannequins made of sticks.

    I would suck as a marketing person. I despise marketing because it is misleading at least and quite often just a bunch of lies. But examples of success in marketing are out there for all to see.

  • Since when are women allowed (Score:5, Funny)

    by davebarnes (158106) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:13AM (#27965961) Homepage

    to buy laptops without supervision by a male?

  • Changing color laptop (Score:4, Funny)

    by Gothmolly (148874) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:18AM (#27966045)

    Can they make a Dell laptop where its baby pink for 3 weeks, then blood red for the fourth? I think that would sell well with the ladies.

  • Recipes? Cooking videos? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kimvette (919543) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:40AM (#27966431) Homepage

    Recipes? Check.
    Cooking videos? Check.
    Calorie counting? Check.

    However, I also do:

    * occasional gaming (unfortunately I need to run Windows for that - neither cedega nor crossover games will run the games)
    * video editing and transcoding
    * graphic design
    * embroidery (unfortunately I need to run Windows for that)
    * web design
    * occasional small coding projects

    My preferred environment is Linux. When I buy desktop computers, I build them myself; I want workstation-level motherboards and nvidia-based video cards with low failure rates and decent performance.

    When I buy laptops, I seek out desktop performance. For me, that means Dell Precision, Dell Latitude, or a higher-end Asus. Fast dual core processor (quad core isn't worth the premium Dell charges), internal RAID, and the smallest hard drives and RAM they'll ship because I can upgrade those from a distributor or Newegg for 1/5 to 1/3 the markup Dell charges.

    It'd be really neat if I could get a Precision M4400 or M6400 in purple or hot pink, or even blue, but unfortunately the only option is an orange color (Covet). Thanks but no thanks, I'll take the industrial-looking graphite.

    Now, when it comes to a netbook, which I will buy, a nice blue would be nice. The Aspire One would do nicely but there is a huge range of options, and since the goal there is solely maximum portability, performance isn't the goal. For a netbook I will accept compromises for style.

    A computer is a tool, not an accessory. When it comes to tools I try to be practical.

    $.02

  • Long memory is better than short memory. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mwvdlee (775178) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:55AM (#27966705) Homepage

    From TFA, from the author of the book:

    "If the netbook is great for using the Internet and has a long memory, that would really be about helping netbook buyers get stuff done while they waited at the airport -- not because they want to check diet sites," she said.

    Seriously... a LONG memory? She's basically proving that Dell was right to leave out technical details for women.
    Reminds me of a Mark Twain quote: "It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt.".

  • What women want in a laptop (Score:5, Insightful)

    by beadfulthings (975812) on Friday May 15 2009, @09:56AM (#27966731) Journal

    Well, I can state what I want in a laptop:

    1) It has to be configured for whatever application I want to use it for (games, office, netbook, class).
    2) IT HAS TO WORK.
    3) It has to be associated with reliable service.

    Under those three requirements, Dell breaks down rather badly, and all the recipes and shopping tips they want to throw at me will fall on deaf ears.

    This reminds me of trying to buy a car twenty years ago as a woman. If I happened to drag along my husband, the salesman always made the pitch to him--despite the fact that I was paying for the car and would be driving it. This was fairly common and always infuriating. At some point car salesmen realized that, yes, women do drive, and that they care about more than the coordination of the upholstery. There are even car saleswomen now.

    Dell should take a page from the automobile sales book and pitch their laptops to everyone on the basis of quality, reliability, suitability, and service. Unfortunately they can't really do that and be truthful.

  • Whatever (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Greg_D (138979) on Friday May 15 2009, @10:04AM (#27966847)

    'Some brands go too far with the girlie stuff,' Learned says. 'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'

    Oh really? And why is it that when we're talking about laptops, the kind of language used is evil and demeaning, but when it comes to overpriced sacks, it's fine? Seems to me that Learned's argument is that women are either irrational or just plain dumb regarding things important to women, but if it's important to guys too, then they suddenly get a giant increase in mental capacity.

    Here's what most women want to know about their computers:

    • Can it load myspace and facebook quickly?
    • Can it run my work productivity software?
    • Can I get my email?
    • Can I compose documents?
    • Can I organize my documents?
    • Can it play solitare?

    Only geeks and gamers focus on raw metrics. The rest of the world? They just want to be able to do the things they need a computer for, quicker. And many are even willing to trade speed for portability. Hence, netbooks.

    People who get pissed at marketers for doing what marketers do are just being dishonest for themselves. Marketers don't create ads out of personal satisfaction, they create them because they want to reach the largest possible audience and convince them to buy or do something. That's how they get paid.

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