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Second Netbook Wave Begins
Posted by
kdawson
on Mon Feb 02, 2009 08:03 PM
from the first-blood-to-asus dept.
from the first-blood-to-asus dept.
nerdyH writes "Asus is taking pre-orders for a netbook based on Intel's second-generation platform, the secret-shrouded N280/GN40 chipset. Early product specs confirm that the second wave of netbooks are likely to offer faster graphics and lower power use, along with room for much, much larger batteries. The N280 apparently integrates the northbridge and CPU, meaning that the GPU moves to 45nm process technology, the FSB gets replaced by an on-chip interconnect, and overall board real-estate drops to a third of what it was previously — hence the ability to stuff an 8,700mAh battery into a 3-lb. device. The right shift key is slightly bigger, too, though still no trackpoint pointer (guess I'll keep waiting)."
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Mobile: Ion Platform For Atom Tested With Games, HD Video 115 comments
J. Dzhugashvili writes "Nvidia has already pulled the curtain off its Ion platform, which couples GeForce 9400 integrated graphics with Intel's Atom processor. But how does it perform? The Tech Report has taken the tiny Ion reference system for a spin in games and video decoding to see if the GeForce GPU really helps. The verdict? 1080p playback is actually smooth, and the whole system only draws 25W during playback. Fast-paced action games are another story—Half-Life 2, Quake Wars, and Call of Duty 4 are all choppy with a single Atom core and single-channel RAM, although they do run. TR concludes that Ion is nevertheless a clear improvement over Intel's 945G chipset, especially since Nvidia doesn't expect Ion-based Atom systems to cost significantly more than all-Intel ones." Update: 02/04 09:14 GMT by T : HotHardware is one of the several other sites offering some performance benchmark numbers on the new chipset.
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No thanks. (Score:5, Funny)
I'll wait for the Apple idea of a NetBook. It will change everything.
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Funny)
Will it change diapers?
Parent
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Funny)
If you're old enough to ask that question and be dreaming of netbooks, I think you can change your own damned diapers, young man!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, it will be the first netbook with a wheel instead of a keyboard.
For those that missed it... Thevideo (Score:3, Funny)
Apple Wheel [youtube.com]
Re:For those that missed it... Thevideo (Score:5, Insightful)
Solution: don't read youtube comments, they rot your brain.
Parent
Re:For those that missed it... Thevideo (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
> Following the pattern they've always followed, that means it will actually sell for $800.
Nope, it is already showing up for preorder at or below the MSRP.
> If Asus had actually followed through on their original plans to deliver
> these things at low prices, we'd be seeing the imminent death of Microsoft.
Don't look to ASUS for that. The origional EEE was a joint venture with Intel and seeing as they are introducing the first product with this new chip they are still bound to em. To really cut the price is going to require ARM based products.
Which means the low end is going to be left to others. Coby was showing product at CES with $139 MSRP but it is believed to be the older MIPS stuff. Be patient, if somebody can get a product designed that doesn't suck, built in quantity and fight the fierce resistance Intel and Microsoft will throw up to block the normal retail channels.... Xmas '09 will redefine what people think of a laptop/netbook. Just don't look for it in Best Buy.
Parent
Re:Mod parent up (Score:5, Interesting)
> I'm sure you're right about the Wintel cohort putting all their collective muscle into
> stopping anything like that from happening though.
Which is why the MIPS based units designed and pushed by Chinese only vendors aren't getting anywhere after almost a year of units being available to buy in bulk. The ARM efforts have several advantages. First they are faster, better tech. They can probably really do HD video and a Flash player is known to exist for ARM so a full browser experience is possible. More important is several Western/US chipmakers see a multi-billion dollar opportunity if they can leverage smartphone chips up a notch to compete in the netbook space. Broadcom, TI, Nokia, etc aren't exactly on the same playing field with Intel and Microsoft but they have enough marketing muscle and existing presence in the retail channels to avoid being locked totally out of the store shelves. Now imagine what happens when these vendors who already have good relationships with the cell carriers pitch bundling deals. Imagine the fireworks should AT&T offer up a free ARM netbook with a service plan.
All that has ever been needed to blow the Windows monopoly to smitheens is for a critical mass of customers to realize they can survive without Windows/Office. Putting tens of millions of ARM+Linux netbooks in the field just might do the trick. No Windows wouldn't vanish but their ability to command monopoly prices would be forever smashed and that would end their cash cow, without which they would lack the ability to cause much mischief.
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Re:Mod parent up (Score:4, Interesting)
>Imagine the fireworks should AT&T offer up a free ARM netbook with a service plan.
Be careful what you wish for. Do you really want people getting "free" computers that are as restrictive as the "free" cell phones they push at people? It would be the *death* of mainstream Linux.
And don't think people wouldn't put up with it. Us Europeans are already amazed you put up with the crippled cell phones just so you can buy them on credit.
Parent
Re:Mod parent up (Score:4, Interesting)
>Imagine the fireworks should AT&T offer up a free ARM netbook with a service plan.
Be careful what you wish for. Do you really want people getting "free" computers that are as restrictive as the "free" cell phones they push at people? It would be the *death* of mainstream Linux.
Why? As long as the machine lets people surf the net and do light office type tasks (which Linux/Firefox/OO) will do just fine, they won't care what OS it runs.
The challenge will be games; and if enough devices can be pushed you'd start to see developers write games for it.
I'd guess that a manufacturer would use BSD rather than Linux if only to better control who can use any changes they make; if they thought the market was big enough.
And don't think people wouldn't put up with it. Us Europeans are already amazed you put up with the crippled cell phones just so you can buy them on credit.
If by crippled you mean carrier locked the reason we put up with it is that it has no impact on most US cell phone users. We have a network that spans a space about the size of Europe where we can use our cell phones anywhere in that space without worrying about roaming charges. We don't need to worry about changing carriers to get good rates; so you pick a provider based on coverage or that has the cool phone you want.
In addition, our "locked" phones aren't that locked, ATT will unlock some phones after you've been with them a few months, including pay as you go phones; not sure about T-Mobile. Sprint and Verizon phones aren't really locked but since each others phone id's don't show up in the others database they can't or won't activate a rival phone; although at one time you could activate Sprint Treos on Verizon. There was talk of allowing non-carrier branded phones to be activated but I'm not sure if that ever happened.
The bigger question is why worry about phone mobility? If you switch carriers you get a new subsidized phone anyway; and it seems many people view phones as a throwaway that gets replaced every 15 months or so anyway. You don't get a price break for a non-subsidized phone, so there is no advantage to buying one. In the US you don't have to worry about roaming charges so you don't need to swap SIMs as you travel. Since a significant percentage of Americans never travel abroad the ability to get a cheap SIM plan overseas is not needed. I do travel abroad and have a cheap pay as you go phone that is unlocked fro use overseas; it cost me a total of $10 for the phone. I unlocked it myself; but had I kept my account active for 3 more months (after the 1st month that was included in the price of the phone) at $10 or so a month ATT would have unlocked it for me for free.
Not having to shell out a few hundred dollars up front increases the penetration of cell phones in the US since more people will pay XX$ per month than $200 up front plus XX$ less the subsidy cost. If you look at European providers they also offer subsidized phones so it seems Europeans like that option as well.
In short, the US and European markets are different because of the nature of the markets. Ours created one large calling area rather than the patchwork of carriers that are legacies of the period prior to the "United Europe." Ours works for us, yours works for you. Both have pluses and minuses, but neither way is inherently better; just different.
Parent
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
What happened to those ultra cheap ARM laptops we were hearing about awhile back, that is what I want to know. While I agree that a $150-$200 x86 laptop would be the hot product, especially in this economy, I just don't see that happening without some competition. After all, both the major laptop manufacturers and Intel would probably like the Netbook market to either die or become like what ASUS is pushing, which is just full priced crappy little laptops.
But seeing as how most of the folks using a Netbook are mainly using it as a "browser in a box" and with an ARM CPU you should be able to get great battery life with decent performance the ARM based Netbooks could take a chunk of the market, especially if they hit the under $150 price point. After all there are already ARM based distros ready to go, there are programs that will let you edit a doc on a ARM based machines, and as long as the browser lets you surf the web and check your webmail most folks I know would be happy little campers. And the ARM processors out there can be had VERY cheaply, and with the scale of making a product like a Netbook the price will only go down. The screens are getting cheaper by the day, ditto for SSD storage, and Linux means no MSFT tax.
So what happened? Where the hell are they? If they get them out in the $125-175 range I would have NO problem selling them to the local college kids as a "browser in a box" which they could throw in their backpack and check their email and IM with. But I haven't heard diddly squat past the original announcements. Being an underdog and not already having established laptops to compete against in house(unlike ASUS) they would have reason to go low on price to capture market share. And in this economy cheap price beats just about anything. So where in the hell are they?
Parent
Re:No thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
I could still live with the slightly higher price, since many other products, like graphics cards, use perfectly acceptable previous generation products for the low end.
What I don't understand is the push for ever bigger screens and storage. The 900-series could be even smaller, but is optimized for an acceptably large keyboard and display, and that's ok. A 10" hd-based laptop however, is not what I would consider a netbook anymore. The whole point is maximum portability. That means 7-9" screen and a flash drive.
Adding insult to injury, they don't even use the size to support a bigger resolution, and have removed the respected ASUS brand in favor of the childish Eee logo. No thanks.
Parent
Re:No thanks. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, so I rushed out and bought an Eee901 for my wife for about $550. I'd say it's about the "sweet spot" for their netbook line. They're about the same size as the 7" models but make better use of the screen real estate, yet smaller than the 10" models, which seem a tad too big and don't offer any extra screen resolution for it.
Anyway, you all remember what fanfare that piece was released with. But a few months later they quietly started selling the stripped-down version of the Eee901 (with 512MB of RAM instead of 1GB and 4GB of SSD instead of 16-20GB) for only $300 at places like Target and Walmart, even in the Linux flavors to boot. And it's ridiculously easy cheap and easy to upgrade the RAM (up to 2GB if you replace the stock OS - I'm liking eeebuntu) and storage (add as a big SD and as many USB drives as you like).
So it seems to me that Asus has a strategy of doing lots of press releases for their high-end models and scalping the rich tech boys to pay off the engineering costs, but then selling the very competitive stripped-down version at the mainstream retail outlets to get volume.
So anyway, keep a lookout for these cheap stripped-down pieces they sell to the "low end market"... I'm already planning my Eeebot army.
Parent
Re:No thanks. (Score:4, Funny)
Try 1/20 or 1/25 of that market which at US$700 (its Apple, remember) equals to roughly US$0.5 Billion (US$420 M and US$525 M respectively).
Parent
A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Insightful)
1.45 kg is just slightly too much in my opinion. I love my 701 weighing in at just over 900 grams, I'd prefer a model weighing 1.3 kg or less.
Yeah... cause lugging around the extra weight equivalent of couple of Mars bars is more than anyone should be forced to endure.
Parent
Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Interesting)
1.45 kg is just slightly too much in my opinion. I love my 701 weighing in at just over 900 grams, I'd prefer a model weighing 1.3 kg or less.
Yeah... cause lugging around the extra weight equivalent of couple of Mars bars is more than anyone should be forced to endure.
It all adds up. I can take my 701 to work on my bike. Carrying a load momentum is the real problem, not weight. For me the 701 belongs with my multimeter and GPS. Its an instrument, just not as specialised as the others.
Parent
Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:4, Insightful)
1.45 kg is just slightly too much in my opinion. I love my 701 weighing in at just over 900 grams, I'd prefer a model weighing 1.3 kg or less.
Yeah... cause lugging around the extra weight equivalent of couple of Mars bars is more than anyone should be forced to endure.
at that weight you might as well buy a fully fledged laptop with some real power. Netbooks are experiencing "power-creep" right back into the laptop fold.
Parent
Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Funny)
If netbooks continue to grow like this, in a mere ten generations they will weigh 158Kg. Clearly the government should intervene and legislate a maximum weight of 100kg.
Parent
Re:A bit too heavy IMHO... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, there are probably more important things to be discussing right now.
Why yes- a measurement in either Snickers or Reese's Cups would be greatly appreciated.
Parent
Glad the Northbridge is Integrated (Score:5, Informative)
It's always been kind-of annoying knowing that in a lot of netbooks, the super-efficient 2W Atom processor was paired with a clunky old 6W 945 chipset [wikipedia.org]. Such a waste of battery life.
Re:Glad the Northbridge is Integrated (Score:4, Informative)
Ive been pretty impressed with the life Ive gotten out of my Eee 900a with the 1.6GHz Atom so far, but this new spec should blow improve that considerably. With nearly double the battery capacity(of my 900a), this thing should get 6 hours of actual use fairly easily.
Parent
Re:Glad the Northbridge is Integrated (Score:5, Funny)
You should get the keyboard replaced before the warranty expires.
Parent
Re:Glad the Northbridge is Integrated (Score:4, Interesting)
Heck, Apple's seen a 7% drop in market share and the blame's solely on netbooks.
Parent
Tag (Score:5, Funny)
Just saying.
Re:Tag (Score:5, Funny)
Obligatory link:
http://xkcd.com/243/ [xkcd.com]
Parent
Re:Tag (Score:4, Funny)
I still think the "joynipple" has a nicer ring to it, and more accurately represents the mechanics and feel of how it actually works.
Parent
What I want to know is (Score:5, Funny)
Who decided to use touch pads in these netbooks. Why not go with the more controllable clit mouse. Much more pleasurable to use - for both the user and the computer. I refuse to purchase a new laptop/netbook unless it has the clit mouse. Also, the touch pad wastes too much realestate.
Re:What I want to know is (Score:4, Funny)
Do you manipulate your clit mouse with your tongue?
Parent
Re:What I want to know is (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:What I want to know is (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:What I want to know is (Score:4, Informative)
I completely agree. I had to use a ThinkPad once, years ago, as a substitute machine, so I experimented with the TrackPoint pointer. I didn't like it at all, and I wouldn't have bought a ThinkPad for myself, but I like to try new things as long as I'm not forced to continue. It took several days of constant use to get used to it, but after I did, I was hooked. I got my own ThinkPad, cranked the sensitivity and acceleration up to the max values, and trained myself to use it. At first it was like my first time on ice skates, but these days, I can rocket the mouse cursor around the screen and stop right where I want just by wanting it to be there, with my fingers still on the keyboard. At that level of sensitivity, and after a lot of practice, you just think about where you want the mouse pointer to be, and it's there. It's just an imperceptible, unconscious twitch or slight pressure. And with my fingers in the home position on the keys/mouse pointer, my thumbs can reach three mouse buttons by merely bending them at the middle thumb joint. Again, just the tiniest twitches combine keys, mouse pointer, and three mouse buttons.
Now, when I'm forced to use a scratchpad, forced to lift my hands off the keyboard and go scratch like a cat in a litterbox to get the mouse to move--jerk, jerk, jerk, slide into place--I feel like I've put down my Nikon to take a picture with a one-button camera. It's unbelievably primitive in comparison. It's not that I can't scratch on a scratchpad--I did it for years and still do when I have to use someone else's machine. Any nitwit can learn to scratch in a few seconds, but for those of us who use computers seriously enough to put time into learning keyboard shortcuts, command line interfaces, scripting for automation, and multiple button / twitch control hardware, nitwit scratchpads don't cut it.
We need that option on netbooks.
Parent
use an eraserhead already! (Score:4, Insightful)
Seeing how annoying some of the teeny trackpads in netbooks are, why on earth aren't some of them using trackpoint/eraserhead/clit/whatever controllers instead?
I get the impression most manufacturers do not do a whole lot of thinking when designing these things...
Netbooks are the future. (Score:5, Insightful)
A five-hundred dollar, three pound netbook with a ten inch screen, over five hours of battery life, and an integrated 3G wireless card would make regular laptops obsolete for most consumers. You can check your e-mail and word process, and edit photos. That is what most people need.
I currently have a Dell Mini 9 I bought for $265. It has a four hour battery life and is really snappy with Ubuntu 8.10. I use it to check my e-mail. The only downside is the weak graphics, but the new Intel chipset supposedly processes HD video on board.
I cannot wait to get one of the second gen netbooks.
Re:Netbooks are the future. (Score:4, Informative)
That new Intel chip isn't actually made by Intel, and because of it linux support is really bad right now.
Beware - don't expect it to be perfect.
Parent
Re:Netbooks are the future. (Score:5, Informative)
It turns out that the graphics in this new Asus Eee 1000HE netbook is based on Intel's GMA 950 core, which is integrated into the new Atom N280 core. The recent news (http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/31/1859200 ) was about the GMA 500, which has been in some recent Dell Netbooks. The 950 seems to be in the GMA 900 family, with good old Intel technology and hopefully reasonable Linux drivers.
Sorry, but that egg was *so* close to being on my face!
Parent
Looking for a netbook, but bigger (Score:3)
Off-topic, but ... does anyone know if there's any such thing as a notebook that has basic netbook specs, but is a bit bigger? Yeah, I know, the smallness is supposed to be the whole point, but ... my second laptop (an IBM-era ThinkPad) is getting a bit long in the tooth and somewhat flaky. All it's ever used for these days is Web surfing and occasional word processing, and I'd love to replace it with a sub-$500 machine ... but my wife watches video on it quite a bit and doesn't particularly want to squint at a 9- or 10-inch screen (the current laptop is 14 inch). I know that LCD prices add some to the final cost, but is there a netbook-quality 13- or 14-inch laptop out there for not too much more than a netbook?
Re:Looking for a netbook, but bigger (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
HDMI and DVI? (Score:3, Interesting)
I know lots of old displays still use DSub VGA but when can I get one with HDMI?
It'd be really cool if I could just hook this up to a digital TV which everyone seems to have these days.
Re:HDMI and DVI? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know lots of old displays still use DSub VGA but when can I get one with HDMI?
It'd be really cool if I could just hook this up to a digital TV which everyone seems to have these days.
Wow. Full circle...from plugging my TRS-80 MC-10 into the television, through several generations of specialized monitors, to the "wonder" of watching TV/video on the computer screen, and now back to plugging the computer into the TV.
Parent
No, it's part of the third wave. (Score:5, Interesting)
Ditch x86? (Score:4, Informative)
Though Intel didn't have spectacular success with 'Itanic', might they now consider designing an ISA specifically for low power?
Attracting a big enough market would be the issue, given the Wintel hegemony. But if Linux netbooks find a niche, perhaps Apple could be persuaded to port to this new 'Proton' CPU for "OS X Netbook Edition"? With intel's backing they wouldn't face the same fabrication problems as they had with PowerPC.
[Insert obligatory beowulf cluster comment].
Re:Ditch x86? (Score:4, Interesting)
I really doubt Intel would branch out with a new architecture - or at least, not a low power one. Remember that 80-core processor they made a while back? They'd probably make a new architecture for processors like that, to improve their dominance in the server/render-farm market.
ARM really has low power and small locked down. An Atom is impressive at 2 watts, but ARM will soon be doing the same at 0.1 watts, and with ARM SoCs everything is in a single chip, so you can also cut out 20 watts from the other components in the netbook.
There's no point really... The Atom(and netbooks in general) are huge cash cows, but x86 will never try to take over the Cellphone/Ultra-Low-Power-Device market.
Parent
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:4, Informative)
IBM doesn't make consumer-level hardware any more.
They sold that part of the business to Lenovo long ago.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well, there is Sony's overpriced and underpowered Vaio P. [pocketables.net]
Re:this is slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
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