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Apple Plans To Make Chips For Handhelds
Posted by
Soulskill
on Fri Oct 31, 2008 03:54 PM
from the single-core-multi-core-or-apple-core dept.
from the single-core-multi-core-or-apple-core dept.
Preedit writes "Apple plans to get into the business of designing microprocessors for handheld devices, according to legal papers that are part of a dispute between IBM and one of its top technology executives. IBM is suing Power chip expert Mark Papermaster for allegedly violating a non-compete agreement and accepting a job at Apple. In court papers, IBM claims Apple wants Papermaster 'to design microprocessors for incorporation in a variety of electronic devices, including handheld devices.' The suit, according to Infoweek, also notes that Apple earlier this year bought out P.A. Semi. IBM thinks it knows why."
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[+]
Apple: Former IBM Exec Ordered To Stop Working For Apple 270 comments
tom_guyette writes "ComputerWorld reports a federal judge has ordered former IBM executive Mark Papermaster, recently hired as Apple's vice president of hardware devices engineering, to stop working for Apple. The judge's ruling is based on a motion for preliminary injunction made by IBM, which states Papermaster's new job violates a non-compete agreement he signed in 2006. In response, Papermaster asserted to the court that 'Nothing about his new job will implicate any trade secrets from IBM.'"
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Gosh and I wondered what they'd do with P.A. Semi (Score:5, Insightful)
When you buy a mobile chip designer [forbes.com] what else are you going to do with it?
Re:Gosh and I wondered what they'd do with P.A. Se (Score:5, Interesting)
Chip designing these days is like the child game you used to play called connecting the dots.
People use the term SoC(system on chip) to describe them. It's actually quite modular. Basically you can license a arm core or a mips core and put in all your other blocks(PCI, USB, ethernet) all on the same chip, so if Apple were to license the ppc architecture from IBM I'm sure IBM would be happy. I doubt thats what they are doing since the iPhone is based on ARM.
Not a lot of people design processors from scratch anymore.
Unless he designs the processor from scratch he's really not competing. I can't imagine apple doing something that stupid.
That article alludes to his experience with low power. He probably knows a few tricks on how to reduce power load. This is the expertise they are drawing from. He isn't competing with IBM; MIPS, ARM and intel is.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are several types of licenses one can buy from ARM. The most expensive type, the type Apple is rumored to have acquired, is an architectural license, which allows one to design ones own CPU core. Why would Apple buy this expensive of a license if all they were going to do was "connect-the-dots"?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Gosh and I wondered what they'd do with P.A. Se (Score:4, Informative)
Not quite true. A lot of companies still design microprocessors from scratch.
For example, look at Chinese Longsoon CPUs, nanochip, OpenCores, and so on. I also know that several CPUs are designed from scratch in Russia.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If you want to squirt your friends either get a Zune or buy a sex sling, but leave my Apple stuff alone.
Where is Apple using Power chips currently? (Score:3, Informative)
Apple isn't using Power chips in any of its current computers, is it? The iPod and iPhone are ARM, and they're not making or shipping anything but x86-based Macs.
What am I missing?
Steve's plans for world domination? (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Steve's plans for world domination? (Score:5, Funny)
Steve's more like Henry Ford than Big Brother. Any color you want as long as you don't want page-up and page-down keys.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Huh? My first Mac keyboard (not quite three years old) has page up and page down keys. Never noticed my MacBook doesn't have them because the two-finger-scroll is so easy. They're normally buried in "Fn" hell on PC notebooks anyway.
As for colors, what color do you want [apple.com]?
-Peter
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Fn-Arrow Up Fn-Arrow Down
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
You're right! Now I'm going to forget that and just scroll with two-fingers. ;-)
-Peter
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Option-Arrow Up
Option-Arrow Down
That'll even work on full sized keyboards. :)
Re: (Score:2)
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More like scroll lock and SysRq, whatever the hell they're good for these days. Good riddance.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
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Maybe they want to move back?
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/23/1119241 [slashdot.org]
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That didn't stop them last time.
Actually, the last switch wasn't that bad. Yes there were problems, but considering the size of the effort..um.. I don't know how to finish this sentence.
Re:Where is Apple using Power chips currently? (Score:4, Informative)
Nope. PowerPC is not coming back on the desktop anytime soon for Apple. The P.A. Semi purchase is about SoC likely built around ARM for small devices (aka iPhone).
Parent
Re:Where is Apple using Power chips currently? (Score:4, Interesting)
OS/X is portable. They are still supporting Power based Macs last time I checked.
The next IPod touch could be moved to power if they are low enough power.
The next AppleTV could use a Power CPU.
A netbook could use Power as well. That might be a big win for Apple since they wouldn't takeaway any sales from Macbooks.
Now I am just waiting for Apple to buy AMD and Foxconn :)
I think they have the cash on had for AMD for sure.
Parent
Re:Where is Apple using Power chips CURRENTLY? (Score:2)
But they're not using any now. You don't need *replace* chips you're not using anyway.
I think IBM's smart enough to be able to check the Apple store and notice the complete absence of any obviously Power PC based products, from iPod Shuffle up through the 8 core Xeon-based XServes. So who am I to doubt IBM's word that they're making and selling systems using Power PC? Clearly I'm doing a bad job in my search, and figured someone here could point me to the missing Powermac or Powerbook they're still shipping
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AMD? not going to happen. Too hot, and as poor architecture for hand held devices that need a lot of cycles.
Re: (Score:2)
AMD is going to roll out 45nm CPUs soon. A duel core 45nm version of their latest CPU would make a good laptop cpu.
Add in that there 780g gpu blows away what Intel offers.
Then throw in the ATI line so Apple can have access to the latest and greatest GPUs.
It might not be a bad buy for Apple.
But hay I don't write the checks.
The thing is if Apple did buy AMD and Foxconn they would have complete control from the ground up. I can see Jobs going for that idea.
Re: (Score:2)
OS/X is portable. They are still supporting Power based Macs last time I checked.
As I recall snow leopard or whatever the next version is called is dropping support for Power based Macs. If they were planning to switch back or support the chips on handhelds or something, why drop support on the G5s etc.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Dropping support is not the same as not being portable.
Do they claim support for ARM? I don't think so but the iPhone uses one.
Power on the desktop? No I don't think so.
Power on the iPhone, iPod, and maybe a netbook?
That I can see. But we are all just guessing.
Unless I am right. Then I am brilliant and insightful.
Re: (Score:2)
IIRC, the reason PowerPC was dropped was power consumption/heat on notebooks, so it probably wouldn't go in a laptop.
Re: (Score:2)
Dropping support is not the same as not being portable.
I realize that.
Do they claim support for ARM? I don't think so but the iPhone uses one.
They don't have an officially supported ARM release they are dropping support for either.
Power on the desktop? No I don't think so.
They ALREADY have PowerPPC on the desktop / laptop, and its currently supported.
Power on the iPhone, iPod, and maybe a netbook?
Again, what would be the point of dropping support for the PowerPC if they were planning on using it in the near
Re:Where is Apple using Power chips currently? (Score:4, Insightful)
OS X ran on Intel the entire time it was in development. They didn't mention or release an Intel version until 10.4. I wouldn't put it past Apple Inc. to have an internal version of OS X for PPC, or anyother architecture, ready for the right moment.
Chip supply is a major weakness/obstacle for Apple. Smart business practice will have options should the current supplier have trouble with yields or other issues, not to mention forward looking technology ideas. Apple is not just smart about tech, they're smart about business. They won't risk their whole business on the fortunes of Intel. Let me repeat that, they won't risk their whole business on the fortunes of Intel. And t
Parent
Good luck with that~ (Score:5, Informative)
non compete employment agreement are not viewed very favorably in California.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/08/california-supreme-c-1.html [boingboing.net]
http://www.workforce.com/section/03/feature/25/82/12/index.html [workforce.com]
http://www.employlaw.com/noncompete.htm [employlaw.com]
Re:Good luck with that~ (Score:5, Informative)
Prolly why IBM is filing in NY.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/31/apple_ibm_chipper_lawsuit/ [theregister.co.uk]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Prolly why IBM is filing in NY.
Wait, aren't we the California of the East Coast?
Papermaster? (Score:2)
"Mark Papermaster"? What is it with all the oddball last names in the technology business? There's Faith Popcorn, but wikipedia says her birthname was Faith Plotkin. But "Papermaster" sounds like someone who should be running either a D&D game or Dunder Mifflin (or Wernham Hogg, I guess).
Re: (Score:2)
Well in the olden days many people were named after their occupation. Maybe this guys forefathers were masters of papers?
Re: (Score:2)
Well who knows?
By the way, I like the age rating: May contain bloody violence. I guess bloodless violence is ok then.
IBM has a case (Score:5, Informative)
except non-compete agreements were ruled unconstitutional [capoliticalnews.com]
And rightly so, I shall add. Non-compete agreements are total crap and I hope IBM gets smacked down hard in court over this frivolous lawsuit.
What, you thought I was going to support IBM on this one? Don't believe everything you read in the subject line ;o)
Re:IBM has a case (Score:5, Interesting)
I prefer French law on non compete. If you have one of your employee sign a non compete, three conditions must be respected:
-limited scope on geography
-limited scope on time
and the better one
-while your former employee is unemployable due to the non compete, you must pay him a compensation for his unemployability. I don't remember how much but it's a certain percentage of the salary.
Parent
Re:IBM has a case (Score:5, Informative)
don't know about the first one, but IBM seems to be meeting the last two requirements:
-they're only asking that he refrain from working for Apple or another direct competitor for one year.
-they offered to pay him a year's salary (on top of his default compensation package) in exchange for his abidance with the non-compete clause.
while i think that non-compete clauses definitely have some potential for abuse by employers, i don't think IBM is being that unreasonable in this instance.
Parent
I predict this will be a failure (Score:5, Funny)
Apple chips are bland and only favored by dieters and health nuts. Now if the company was called 'Tortilla,' well, then...that would be delicious!
Perfectly Legal (Score:4, Informative)
I want some of whatever the hell IBM is smoking.
jdb2
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? If you spend 5 years at a company and learn 'the trade' on their dime they should be safe from you running to the next company and spilling everything they worked hard to make, at lest for a short time. It would be massively unfair for me to take your designs for "insert tech here" and run to "insert corp/country of choice" and beat you to market , or, very closely join you.
Re:non-compete == BS (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:non-compete == BS (Score:5, Insightful)
Stealing designs is already illegal in the first place. Non compete agreements prevent you from taking a similar job after your current job has been terminated, even if you have no intention to steal your former employer's trade secrets.
The real aim of non compete agreements is to lower your negotiation power. Take this salary cut, and no you can't go to the competition because of the non compete.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
that may be true in some cases, but given that "IBM offered to pay Mr. Papermaster one year's salary in exchange for Mr. Papermaster to respect his contractual obligation to refrain from working for an IBM competitor for one year," i don't think that's the case.
it seems to me like they just don't want to lose their trade secrets to their competitor. and in a hi-tech field like chip design, a year's lead on the competition would be very significant (or at the very least enough for the trade secrets held by a
Re:non-compete == BS (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? If you spend 5 years at a company and learn 'the trade' on their dime they should be safe from you running to the next company and spilling everything they worked hard to make, at lest for a short time. It would be massively unfair for me to take your designs for "insert tech here" and run to "insert corp/country of choice" and beat you to market , or, very closely join you.
Yea..the keyword there is if. If you do that, then you should suffer the legal consequences (if there are any), but you shouldn't be punished simply because you could do that. In any event, treat your valued professionals like they are valued, otherwise somebody else will. Like it or not, the labor market succumbs to the same market forces that every other market does...
Parent
Re:non-compete == BS (Score:5, Insightful)
If they can't keep you there by treating you well, providing you opportunity to grow or paying you well. Then why does a company deserve to hold a monopoly on your employment?
The other problem with non-competes is that there have been numerous cases where employees are laid-off, but their NC are enforced preventing them from getting jobs in the industry.
Also a company should not be defined by an individual contributor. A company's success depends greatly on the culture and teamwork within that company. Something that is not easy to export (or import, as many merged companies have found out).
Also "trade secrets" and patents are outside of the scope of a non-compete clause. And you are liable for civil damages if you distribute trade secrets. Even if you no longer work for that company.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Why? If you spend 5 years at a company and learn 'the trade' on their dime they should be safe from you running to the next company and spilling everything they worked hard to make, at lest for a short time."
That would be true if they just paid you to hang out and learn. Their "dime" goes to pay you for the work you did to help their company prosper.
You can't take any trade secrets with you, but the general knowledge you gained belongs to you.
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And what was the last company that thought designing their own chips was a good idea. NVidia right?
Um, nVidia has no option but to design their own chips, they're the top GPU designer in the world. A better question would be why Intel bothers designing their own GPUs instead of partnering with nVidia.
That ended in epic fail.
The failure wasn't in the chips, it was in the mounting.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
A better question would be why Intel bothers designing their own GPUs instead of partnering with nVidia.
Might be because nVidia's chips are heavily based on licensed technology, which would restrict what Intel could do with it.
Wasn't there a problem with Microsoft being pissed off because of nVidia's license for the XBox GPU, making them go to ATI for the 360?
Something like that, don't remember where I read it though.