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Nintendo Blocks Homebrew Installation
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:55 AM
from the see-how-long-that-lasts dept.
from the see-how-long-that-lasts dept.
ElementC writes "Sometime yesterday Nintendo uploaded the latest Wii system update. This update quietly patches a few bugs that allowed the installation of both homebrew and warez apps. Currently installed apps such as the Homebrew Channel and the video DVD library, DVDX, are reportedly not affected. Those not installing this update are blocked out of the Wii Shop channel and in the future may be blocked out of certain games. Team Twiizers cracked the last update within about eight hours. They're already on the case. Readers familiar with the architecture of the Wii will find the list of currently discovered changes interesting."
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ElementC writes "Team Twiizers, the group behind almost all of the Wii Homebrew scene, has released an update to the Homebrew Channel (and installer) that allows for installation on a Wii with the most recent update installed. While the team still recommends against installing the Nintendo update, those who accidentally updated or purchase games that require the update are no longer left out to dry. This update to the Homebrew Channel also adds SDHC support, a feature Nintendo has not implemented in vanilla Wiis. The community has also created an app that updates just the Wii Shop Channel — allowing users to purchase Wiiware and Virtual Console games without losing their homebrew. It took the team only two days to get the fix out."
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Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahh but what if they had anticipated the fix, pre-emptively beat them, and then feigned ignorance for a few days to make the companies think that they had outsmarted the hackers.
Only to find out that they themselves were victims of a double-cross, but the real joke is that it wasn't even a cross since the hackers were employees that were posing as hackers to lull the homebrew community into installing their code. The result is that the homebrew community has been slowly installing pieces of a much more vast program conceived in the secret vaults underneat the Washington Monument. The true nature of these fixes won't be known until the third high tide past the winter solstice when the tidal forces on the wii controllers motion sensors will signal the code to execute.
There is more, but you will
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Funny)
You know too much.
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Funny)
You know too much.
No, he just read the script to National Treasure 3: The Unix Bible
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Funny)
from the way his post ends, i'd say knew too much...
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Funny)
...press "Submit" prematurely, leaving the entire /crowd in the agony of suspense?
Well played, well played.
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:4, Funny)
This post starts to feel like that too. Or maybe it's just
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Funny)
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Uhm.... (Score:5, Informative)
That's essentially what happens.
The PSP hackers (Dark Alex in particular) pretty much know every trick Sony has in their arsenal. The only unknown is which particular bit Sony is going to try in each time (what the particular decompression keys will be for example). Making a new PSP custom firmware for these guys is really pretty straightforward; they unpack the firmware, doublecheck their CFW code against the new code, doublecheck any newly-appearing functions, and release the patched version that pretty much patches the same bullcrap stuff that's just been in each official firmware release since 2.00.
It's the companies that are reacting - they "patch" for the repairs the "hackers" have made to restore proper function to their Defective-By-Design products. With this latest bit, I fully expect we're going to start to see PSP-style custom firmware installations for the Wii that begin to open the platform up more fully and allow it greater flexibility to be used to its fullest capability.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:5, Interesting)
That's pretty much what happened. We've been sitting on more exploits for ages, and it took us two hours to make one work after the update. Expect public release in, oh, a day or so.
We're several steps ahead. Their code is too buggy.
Parent
Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again (Score:4, Interesting)
There is a LOT of attention and appreciation for these hackers. I think these hackers love that and that they continue to be successful at cracking open basically a 'virtual safe'. They are cracking things that the companies who make the products want none of. If a company is open to user modifications, that hardly qualifies as 'cracking', as a company like that would probably release specifications, etc.
For the individual hacker, it is definitely a feeling of 'I have beat them at their own game'. And for both the hacker and the community, it is that and a statement like 'We will continue cracking until you give us what we want'. What people want is subjective. Some strictly would like to see homebrew allowed legally on all consoles. Some would like to be able to use backups as well as legitimate copies of their games. Regardless, a very high number of the users of homebrew, modchips, and other modifications to consoles enjoy being able to play downloaded games without having to pay for them.
These products are definitely 'defective by design'. The whole scheme of video game selling has always been to screw over a consumer. Today you cannot return a game if you legitimately dislike it after playing (ridiculous considering some are $50+). You also legally cannot make a backup copy and use that to keep the original safe 5 year olds and optical discs? As if. And when they get ruined, does the company give you a new copy when you send in your old one? Very few do. So 90% of the time you are stuck buying a new copy if you want to stay all legal.
To the companies involved: give us at least A) homebrew ability (and free development tools and full access to the console (that means you, Sony) for at the least non-commercial use), and B) backup ability (that includes PC games!).
Parent
Can't win, just go with it (Score:4, Interesting)
8 hours is significant because I believe for that update, Nintendo had something like a three or four month development, testing, release schedule. This is of course not out of the norm for an update that will affect millions of people, but I can't imagine how much money was put into "fixing" the homebrew problem only for it to be cracked again in hours.
Re:Can't win, just go with it (Score:5, Informative)
8 hours is significant because I believe for that update, Nintendo had something like a three or four month development, testing, release schedule.
It was actually a half year cycle. Nintendo released IOS37, and it got a few months of production testing. Then Nintendo released IOS30 and IOS31 with the signing bug fix backported from IOS37, and it also got a few months of production testing. Now we're seeing the signing bug fix in every IOS major version.
Parent
Re:Can't win, just go with it (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is they have a pocketful of known exploits they can use. They only implement one. Months later it's patched out. Then they can just get out their list and see which one they're going to use next. Maybe the update eliminated one of the options, maybe it added a few more that they will discover and add to their list in the next few months. That's the difference - preparedness, turn-around time. They're doing their R&D while they already have a working exploit in place. Then when that one stops working, they've got one waiting in the wing to be polished and rolled out.
That's the difference between when the next salvo gets fired. Own the box, wait 4 months, patch. Take another 8 days, owned again. Another 4 month wait for the next patch maybe? You can't possibly say the hackers aren't ahead of the curve here.
Parent
Re:Can't win, just go with it (Score:5, Interesting)
what on earth are you talking about? so some locksmith who spend 2 years to design a lock that a thief cracks in 2 minutes means that the thief spent 2 years and 8 hours to crack the lock? i'm sorry, but your logic is severely wanting.
crackers don't take credit for the new features that hardware vendors add to firmware updates (if there are any), they're merely credited for bypassing the security/DRM/defective-by-design (pick your favorite) mechanisms the vendor added to prevent users from running homebrew. in the case of PSP, most firmware updates don't add any real value to the PSP. they're merely released to break the forward-compatibility of old/cracked firmwares so that users would have to update to OFW to play newly released games. that's why many people simply continue to run CFW based off of an older firmware version.
if vendors didn't intentionally cripple their devices in firmware then hackers wouldn't have to crack the firmware to enable homebrew development on these platforms. both the vendor and the homebrew developers' time and resources could be better spent on improving the platform rather than participating in this fruitless arms race. and often it's homebrew developers that add more value to a system through CFW than the official firmware updates that just cripple the system.
for instance, the M33 CFW for the PSP allowed early adopters who purchased the PSP-1000 (which Sony has apparently turned their backs on) to actually use VoIP (Furikup) on their PSP--a feature that the Sony update only gave to the PSP-2000. and Furikup actually has more robust features than the Skype add-on of Sony's OFW.
what's silly is someone who obviously has no clue about how homebrew works, or what it is, commenting about homebrew development and the efforts of the hackers who make it possible.
Parent
Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did the update actually do anything to the Wii Shop Channel (other than making it inaccessible without the update)? Or was that simply a ruse to get everybody to apply an update that is really designed for a totally different purpose?
Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel? (Score:5, Informative)
It renamed Wii Points to Nintendo Points, and added clearer warnings about what controllers you have to own in order to play a game before you purchase the game.
Parent
Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel? (Score:5, Informative)
Did the update actually do anything to the Wii Shop Channel (other than making it inaccessible without the update)? Or was that simply a ruse to get everybody to apply an update that is really designed for a totally different purpose?
Many systems that work with an online service have a policy that you must have the latest version and if you don't it'll be upgraded first, even those where there's no such ulterior motive to be found. I think it's mostly a case of ease of testing and support, rather than test a huge range of versions all they need to know is that build 23425 of the client works with build 5435 of the server. If someone calls support and have a problem with the service, everything is where you'd expect things to be in the latest version. Of course to them it's not a downside that things like homebrew are blocked either, but I don't think it's the main reason.
Parent
Upgrade the Internet channel flash player already (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree it's good to have everyone running the same update for service and support purposes, but this update really doesn't seem to do anything important.
Instead of wasting time developing an update to block a handful of people from hacking their Wiis, why doesn't Nintendo put their time and development cycles into upgrading the freaking Internet channel flash player already. It's over a year and a half out of date and more and more flash videos are unplayable on the Wii as websites upgrade to the newest version. At least Youtube still works (mostly).
I know I can just go use my computer, but it's fun to watch Internet videos on my couch (and streaming TV shows) instead of having everyone huddle around the computer monitor.
Parent
Remember when... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Remember when... (Score:5, Insightful)
We should be complaining about the other locked down hardware that we get, like cell phones, where we're paying for the service and the hardware and get to use neither like we'd like. The Wii could be used almost to its fullest potential without installing a single update, but you can't say that about the iphone.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Remember when... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see it as limiting the use of your own hardware.
It's limiting the use of your modified hardware with Nintendo's servers and software. Just because you have the ability to take hardware out of spec does not mean the original manufacturer *has* to continue to interact with your modded hardware.
If the homebrew and various activities of questionable legality offer more value to you than Nintendo's services why even bother with Nintendo updates? Unless you want to eat your cake and have it too by expecting Nintendo to do the extra work necessary to make sure their services play nicely with your out of spec hardware and, more importantly, that your out of spec hardware plays nicely with their services.
Now if the Wii, or any console, was touted as a general purpose computer, restricting its use would be dirty pool. Though when you purchase a console, you know you are buying a device made for a specific purpose. Perhaps you can change it to do other things, but it is rather silly and selfish to expect the manufacturer to welcome this now foreign hardware with open arms.
For some extra disclosure, I run a cycloDS setup on my DS Lite. I got tired of having GBA carts protrude from the case. Not having to carry all the carts along (using roms made from my own carts only) is a big bonus. Now if there came a along a patch that would break compatibility with the cycloDS, I wouldn't install it, unless whatever the patch was for was worth giving up the flash carts OR purchasing a new DS to run the new firmware and whatever game or feature that needed the patch. I am totally aware of the fact that while the DS has the capability to be more of a general purpose platform that is not the way Nintendo intended it to be used and that in using such a way that it is not Nintendo's responsibility to keep their goods compatible with my modified system.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if the Wii, or any console, was touted as a general purpose computer, restricting its use would be dirty pool.
The failure is that since the 8-bit microcomputers of the 1980s, there really hasn't been a general purpose computer that's marketed by its manufacturer for use with a television.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They patched *bugs*. Which we happened to use to run homebrew.
There has never been a way of running homebrew except via bugs.
Homebrew channel - worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Serious question, is it really worth installing the Homebrew channel if you don't plan to do any development and don't have any intention of buying a classic controller?
I took a look at what was offered about 2 months ago and nothing that was developed really made me want to rush out and install the channel. Don't get me wrong, people are doing great things, but I just ended up saying "meh" and went about playing Super Mario Galaxy.
If I want emulators I can get that on the PSP now and the control system is better suited for the task. If I want DVD playback, then I already have a great Philips box which does DivX too.
So ... is there something absolutely fantastic which I'm missing out on?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So ... is there something absolutely fantastic which I'm missing out on?
Well, you can install Ocarina and spam infinite blue shells in MarioKart Wii wifi...
Re:Homebrew channel - worth it? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Homebrew channel - worth it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is format shifting a form of piracy? I bought a whole ton of nintendo and super nintendo games and I still own them. If I could rip the roms from them what is wrong with using the homebrew to play those roms via an emulator?
Parent
Re:Homebrew channel - worth it? (Score:5, Informative)
To the best of my knowlege, there is nothing wrong, legally or morally, with format-shifting games you already own. In order to be strictly legal, you need to do the ROM-dumping yourself rather than downloading ROM images someone else has already dumped. Running an emulator is totally legal -- this was tested in court back in the early 90s when the first console emulators came out.
Parent
What brand of dumper? (Score:4, Interesting)
If I could rip the roms from [my NES and Super NES Game Paks] what is wrong with using the homebrew to play those roms via an emulator?
In countries with case law analogous to Sony v. Universal and RIAA v. Diamond, nothing. But what brand of NES and Super NES cart dumper do you recommend? (The Internet doesn't count, per UMG v. MP3.com.)
Parent
Blocking owners? (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, so let's say Jimmy purchases a Wii, takes it home with his new game and tries to play but it won't let him because the Wii has yet to be updated.
Are you saying that now Wii owners are required to have Internet access in order to update the console to let them play games?
Re:Blocking owners? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Interesting fact: Although the game discs force you to update, the games themselves often don't actually require the update. I don't endorse game piracy, but I did investigate the piracy scene while waiting for Smash Bros. Brawl to be released in Australia and was surprised to discover the pirated version had the update stripped out of the iso, and could still be played with no problems.
Apparently this was also true for every other game that had previously come bundled with an update.
When will they update Flash and Opera? (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, Nintendo ?? wtf? (Score:4, Insightful)
You currently need this update to access the Wii Shop Channel. from http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_System_Updates [wiibrew.org]
Umm.. So what Nintendo is basically saying is "Well, if you don't upgrade you can keep pirating but we REFUSE to let you pay for us for anything" Whoever thought that up should be fired. By doing this update, I'm sure that they're actually losing revenue from people that will not update. Of course, only until the patch gets a workaround again.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Honesty, why bother? I have not seen any Wii homebrew stuff compelling enough to risk bricking my Wii. I am not an expert on this, but here is my take: you can add the following applications:
* Pirated stuff (WiiWare, virtual console, Wii game copies). I am not into piracy at all. I believe in paying for the stuff that I use. Not interested
* Mame. This is interesting. Still "borderline" piracy, but I can at least understand this. Still, I am not that much into old games when there are so many good ne
Re:Account blocking? (Score:5, Informative)
DVD Player. Wow, I can avoid spending $30 on a dedicated DVD player, AND get more wear and tear on the DVD drive motor.
I think the draw of playing DVD-Video and DivX video on the Wii was supposed to be the fact that a DVD player takes shelf space (especially in Japan and other locales with overpriced real estate), and you need an extra set of five cables going into your switch box.
Parent
Sid Meier's Pirates! (Score:5, Insightful)
So if you use the homebrew firmware on the Wii, you can raid ships on the high seas?
Exactly. If you crack your Wii for homebrew and install an NES emulator, you can play an infringing copy of the NES version of Sid Meier's Pirates! (1991) [wikipedia.org]. Just make sure to use Twilight Hack to install the DVD driver and the Homebrew Channel before you put on the new IOS.
Parent
TV system doesn't match; rating systems (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in Australia and many games (especially Nintendo and Capcom titles) take weeks, if not months longer to reach here after their US release.
I can think of two reasons:
For one thing, game consoles are typically used with large displays called "TVs". TVs in New Zealand and Australia run slower than North American TVs. A lot of games' physics are based on a time quantum based on that of the TV's vertical retrace, and developers need to retune the physics, retest all the levels to compensate for this.
Some video games include depictions of violence or sex that the community deems unsuitable for small children. The standards and practices differ from country to country, and rating boards in each country classify each game based on local standards. It takes time to remove depictions that would result in a refusal to classify a game.
Parent
Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems (Score:4, Informative)
Every TV since the rise of consoles, pretty much, has been capable of running NTSC signals, or even PAL signals using a 60Hz refresh rate.
You'd be hard pressed to find a TV that had ports on it for attaching a console that couldn't flip between different systems at will based on the input signal.
The distribution rights tend to be the thing that really slows down the release of games, videos and music in a region - it's almost never a technical problem any more.
Parent
Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems (Score:4, Interesting)
I was talking about in Europe, Aus and any other region of the world where NTSC isn't the primary TV system.
Every single European TV I have seen that has RCA ports on it since the mid 90s or earlier has been able to function with at least PAL and NTSC signals. More modern ones can handle anything you can throw at them.
I have a wide selection of Region 1 and Region 2 DVDs and an unlocked DVD player and I've never come across a TV that I can't play those US DVDs on (and the DVD player doesn't change the disc to PAL, it outputs in NTSC when a region 1 disc is played).
Maybe US TVs are all NTSC only, but here in Europe, they are all multi format.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Stick that wiimote in your assholes, faggot WEE owners!
You should have got a Playstation 3, the TRUE winner :P
What's the point of the anal wiimote installation? To simulate the expense of buying one? Looking for a lil sympathy?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I completely disagree. Sony could just give access for non-commercial use. All Sony has tried to do with PS2/PS3 Linux is prevent decent game development, making Linux for the consoles nearly useless. Instead of making the licence state 'not for commercial development' and suing anyone who does not follow, they block access to basically the 'most important' parts of their systems, the graphics processors. Why bother installing Linux then? Would not it be cool to run some of those free OpenGL games (such as