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Huge Leap Forward In Robotic Limb Replacement

Posted by kdawson on Sun Jun 01, 2008 04:45 PM
from the arms-and-the-man dept.
BlueshiftVFX sends us to Wired for some video of the impressive, mind-controlled prosthetic robot arm invented by Dean Kamen. "Kamen's arm, dubbed 'Luke' (after Skywalker, I assume), is an incredibly sophisticated bit of engineering that's lightyears ahead of the clamping 'claws' that many amputees are forced to use today. The arm is fully articulated, giving the user the same degrees of movement as a natural arm, and is sensitive enough to pick up a piece of paper, a wineglass, or even a grape without mishap."
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  • Woo... (Score:5, Funny)

    You guys should be excited. Think about what this will do for the pen1s enlarg3m3nt industry.

    Not only would they be "fully articulated" in the bedroom they would also be "sensitive enough" to pick up flowers & wine beforehand.

  • by s4m7 (519684) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:04PM (#23620561) Homepage
    Dean Kamen is Finally Back to Inventing Useful Things
    • by bfl (619363) on Sunday June 01 2008, @07:18PM (#23621575)
      Invented by Dean Kaman is a bit of an exaggeration. The arm is the result of a DARPA project overseen by Deka, and involving a laundry list of partners including the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and the University of New Brunswick. See here [www.unb.ca] for the UNB page about the project.
      • by RsG (809189) on Monday June 02 2008, @01:18AM (#23623701)
        Why would you assume that?

        I mean first up, why the insurance industry? Second, what makes you think anyone has the clout to repress this sort of technology?

        Robot limbs that operate at or near the human level have a multitude of uses beyond just prosthetics. Offhand, I can think of hazardous material handling, remote surgery, bomb disposal, space exploration - basically anywhere you want a human hand, and don't want the mess that comes with having a warm body in the immediate area.

        If you're right, and the potential to build just such a device has existed for years, then everyone from NASA to the nuclear industry would be all over it. Against that, those pissants in insurance don't stand a chance.

        Plus, there's a fairly strong military interest in the prosthetic angle. There are plenty of war-vet amputees who'd benefit, giving DARPA both a practical and a PR benefit if they demonstrated a working model.

        I just don't see it happening yet. Note the "leap forward" phrasing - this is still below the level of a bionic hand that can adequately replace the flesh and blood version. We're nowhere near the star wars/bionic man level. I mean, we'll get there, and probably within my lifetime and yours, but stuff like nerve-computer connections and effective tactile senses are still in their infancy.
  • :-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)

    by lantastik (877247) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:05PM (#23620569)
    I can't tell you how excited I would be if any insurance company on the planet would actually pay for this. I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad...
    • Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 93 Escort Wagon (326346) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:13PM (#23620643)

      I can't tell you how excited I would be if any insurance company on the planet would actually pay for this. I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad...
      Are you in the US? If he was in the military, why is he dealing with insurance carriers at all?

      And are you saying he has triple coverage through three different companies?

      • Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)

        by s4m7 (519684) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:22PM (#23620703) Homepage

        If he was in the military, why is he dealing with insurance carriers at all?

        Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country.

        No seriously the republicans just blocked the expansion of VA benefits.

        • Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)

          by mazarin5 (309432) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:34PM (#23620793) Journal
          Hell, my father is just now getting treatment for problems caused by his stint in Vietnam!
        • Yeah, you just have to look at the top-notch facilities at Walter Ree... oh, wait...
        • Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country.

          I agree with the general sentiment you've expressed; but you don't have the logistics quite correct. The VA system and the military health system are largely separate, somewhat parallel organizations (when my career military father fell ill with a terminal illness, I learned a lot about this). That's part of the problem - the reduncancy of these two hugely bureaucratic systems. The VA is supposed to be there for exactly this situation; but the military also has its own rehab and long-term care programs. In

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      He is entitled to treatment from the Veterans Administration if he was in the U.S. military when he lost it. If he is not being treated, then the best recourse would be to file a complaint with the Veterans Administration and/or to his local Senator (or other political schmuck).

      By default, when you outprocess from active duty, all conditions that were treated while on active duty may be considered for continuing treatment and disability payment.

      There are also lawyers who help veterans get access to these be
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        No, based on experiences I have witnessed, the best first contact is your local American Legion, VFW or DAV representative. He or she knows exactly how the system works and how to get your needs met. They often have an office in the VA Hospital and title something like Service Liaison or something else equally unmemorable.
    • Yeah so much for all of that "support the troops" patriotic nonsense that gets thrown around at so called "unpatriotic" Americans.

      We've got pro ball players playing children's games for a living and a fraction of their salaries combined would help fit our wounded soldiers with things like this, or supply them with whatever special care.

      This country is despicable sometimes. We have the right blaming the left that they're not supporting the troops... We have the government lieing about reasons for war... We h
    • Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)

      by couchslug (175151) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:54PM (#23620935)
      "I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad..."

      I'm a vet and I smell trollage. "name of our country" - WTF?? Branch of service would do for a start.

      No private carrier would even be involved with a combat injury, and actual denial of care would be grounds
      for calling up the VA chain of command with a parallel chat with local and state elected officials. The VA has
      screwed up but there are plenty of folks willing to raise a stink in behalf of a legit claim. Join the DAV (Disabled American Veterans) and the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) for a start.
      • Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)

        by lantastik (877247) on Sunday June 01 2008, @10:43PM (#23622885)

        I'm a vet and I smell trollage. "name of our country" - WTF?? Branch of service would do for a start.
        Marine Corps, honorably discharged in 1992 after the first war in Iraq. My comment had nothing to do with trolling. It's sad that he had to lose his arm performing a completely selfless act for his country.

        The most he ever received from the VA was a limb with a hook on the end. The three insurance carriers are from his three different employers from then until now.

        What makes you think his insurance carriers are not responsible for a pre-existing condition when his prosthetic needs replaced or is damaged? Sure they replace it, but not with anything worth a damn.
  • by empaler (130732) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:05PM (#23620573) Journal
    That snippet really sums up the quality of the linked article.
    In both the linked pages from the Wired article, it is explained in the first paragraph that, yes, this is inspired by Luke's prosthetic hand. All Things Digital article [allthingsd.com], Gizmodo article [gizmodo.com].
  • by Darkness404 (1287218) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:06PM (#23620577)
    How long until the government mandates that these must have HRM on them (Human Rights Management) which would make it impossible to do certain "illegal" things. For example if it doesn't think you are 21 you can't pick up a beer bottle or a wine glass, it wouldn't let you pull a trigger of a gun, nor wield a knife defensively. Now, this technology is still 25-75 years off before it could actually be used, but could it be that in 150 years you would have to have your normal arms either amputated or modified to support Human Rights Management?
  • by HockeyPuck (141947) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:08PM (#23620599)
    Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.

    • by s4m7 (519684) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:19PM (#23620675) Homepage
      I've wondered about this: if the technology improved to the point where you could feel all the sensations with a prosthetic arm as with your original arm, but the materials were stronger, faster and more flexible, why not replace them voluntarily?
      • maintenance costs, and problems with magnets/security scanners probably!
      • by rolfwind (528248) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:39PM (#23620835)
        If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

        (Besides, the technology is just too new.)
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        This reminds me of the Star Trek: TNG episode, "The Measure of a Man"

        Quote taken from: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001459/quotes [imdb.com]

        Capt. Picard: Data, I understand your objections. But I have to consider Star Fleet's interests. What if Commander Maddox is correct - there is a possibility that many more beings like yourself can be constructed?
        Lt. Commander Data: Sir, Lieutenant La Forge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes, true?
        Capt. Picard: Mm-hmm.
        Lt. Commander Data: Then why are not all huma
      • This issue was very thoughtfully covered in Strong Bad Email 47 [homestarrunner.com].
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I've wondered about this: if the technology improved to the point where you could feel all the sensations with a prosthetic arm as with your original arm, but the materials were stronger, faster and more flexible, why not replace them voluntarily?

        I think a good reason would be power requirements. All prosthetics I believe require batteries. I suppose you could have enough batteries that you could just charge your arms and legs overnight. But, quite frankly, I feel powerless enough when I can't see anything when I first wake up. Not having any arms would be even worse.

        If anything, I think that concentrating on either exoskeletons (as has been reported in recent articles) or maybe on strengthening the body itself with implants would be much more prod

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Because body part replacement is a bitch and something you do because you have to, not because you want to. My father recently had his hip replaced because he took an odd fall - his femur broke just below the ball, and the given his relatively young age and activity level, a full Titanium replacement (ball and socket) was deemed to be the best option for him. The bones were in perfect condition, he just landed on it in such a way that it broke.

        He's going to have some degree of limp for the rest of his days
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          You, sir, have it right. Put it on a wireless caterpillar track base, and multiple telescopic arms. There doesn't seem to be too many reasons to attach them to the body.
    • Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.

      The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department.

      • Yeah, with those jerky motions (see in video, assuming final version will be covered with skin and look like normal hand) no one would stare...
      • Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.

        The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department.

        Yeah but I could pick up the other shoppers and throw them hundreds of feet if they stared at me. I AM IRONMAN.

      • by Smidge204 (605297) on Sunday June 01 2008, @06:02PM (#23620993)
        I'm sure most people would just want their old arm back.

        But honestly? If I'm getting an artificial body part I want an upgrade. Artificial arms need "Inspector Gadget" type tools built into them. artificial legs need built-in roller blades or "kangaroo boot" springs. Artificial eyes need video-in jacks, zoom and swappable IR vision filters.

        I'm not sure I'd have a perfectly good body part removed for one - especially at this stage in tech - but if anything happens and I'm getting it anyway...
        =Smidge=
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      With "reinnervation", they graft the nerves that used to lead to the arm/hand/fingers and reattach them to the chest muscles. Electrodes in the base of the prosthesis pick up these electrical signals and use them to move the arm. It would be possible to reassign different signals to different arm movements, but you won't be able to control any more muscles than you had before.

      Maybe with electrodes implanted in the brain this would be possible - people were able to control a cursor with their thoughts. But i
      • by Zarf (5735) on Sunday June 01 2008, @06:08PM (#23621047) Journal

        I imagine it's much harder than you may think to pick up a control scheme for a part of your body that's not only never existed on your body, but never existed in the history of your species.

        But, more to the point, I think they ought to focus on the basics before adding on extra fingers and elbows ;)
        Actually, I'd like to test this hypothesis. I'll bet we'll be shocked to find out that it's actually easy for people who are young enough. I know, that's counter-intuitive, but I suspect that the reason there is a yawning chasm between generations and their use of technology is not that old folks are Luddites but that some folks can't adapt to the mental augmentation that is the exo-cortex of the Internet.

        Notice that we don't see this chasm in older baby-boomers. I think that means we won't see another gaping technology chasm between generations. The computers are here now and brains are adapting to them. Other threads on slashdot have discussed the idea that computer programs become mental extensions just as tools become extensions of people's bodies. Stories of ancient knights speak of warriors fighting until they could not tell their arms from their swords.

        So I'd bet that using that "mental extension into the tool" effect you really could find ways to add on novel new cybernetic body-parts and that the brains of mammals are actually adaptive enough to deal with it. I think this will be true because of the structure of mammal brains and its ability to re-wire itself.

        After all don't you wince when you hit something in your car? Some people even exclaim "ouch" as if they were themselves hurt. I suspect it's an artifact of being able to use tools that enables us to tack on a tool as a "temporary body part"
  • by markk (35828) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:29PM (#23620767)
    So can this be adapted with some work to control real limbs of quadraplegics and paraplegics? Seems like something that could be done with some kind of muscle or nerve stimulation. One could imagine a direct stimulation of nerves in the arm based on this kind of signals. A person could actually "teach" the system to get some kind of use of limbs - even if there is no feeling.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      So can this be adapted with some work to control real limbs of quadraplegics and paraplegics? Seems like something that could be done with some kind of muscle or nerve stimulation. One could imagine a direct stimulation of nerves in the arm based on this kind of signals. A person could actually "teach" the system to get some kind of use of limbs - even if there is no feeling.

      It's not that simple. In the case of a quadriplegic with complete spinal transection, for instance, the spinal reflexes would still

  • luke (Score:4, Funny)

    by rubycodez (864176) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:36PM (#23620809) Homepage
    not named for skywalker, it longs for freedom even as its ordered to dig and fill a hole again and again and wins egg eating contests.
  • Mecha on the moon (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Zarf (5735) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:53PM (#23620927) Journal
    Am I the only one that sees this as an exciting new way to control giant robots and Mecha? One of the demo videos shows an engineer who has not lost an arm controlling the device as a third arm. That could mean the creation of a real-life Doctor Octopus ... or even a way to control real life Mecha or telerobotic space exploration systems for mining the moon!
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Yes you are. When I think of miniaturized wearable prosthetics I don't think about how exciting it would be to control giant robots or "Mecha," whatever that is. Also, had you actually watched the video, they tell you the guy with the 3rd arm had it controlled by someone off camera. Regardless, some actual info about your statement:

      Yeah, that's not new at all. Surgeons have been using remote robotics for YEARS to do micro-surgery. Recently they've even started to do telesurgery, where the surgeon experience
    • As far as extra limbs go, we're only set up in hardware to be able to control two of something. Left brain controls right arm, right brain controls left arm. There's no doubt in my mind that the brain has the capability and plasticity to learn to control a new limb, bit it could very well cost you dexterity or strength in one of your existing arms.

      Upgrading existing limbs would be a whole lot easier on the brain and body than adding new ones. Imagine a 360 degree wrist, for example. Or typing fingers a
  • I'd like to see what what of these arms would look like if they could add an artificial silicone skin that other companies have developed.
  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Sunday June 01 2008, @07:10PM (#23621511)
    Artificial limbs won't truly be kick-ass until they're better than the organic limbs they replace. And they need to make that reverb sproinging sound whenever they do something cool.
      • By mind control yes, but not directly from the mind - it sounded like they said from electrodes in the muscles. Six and half a dozen really, and I'd rather have electrodes in my muscle-stubs than brain surgery anyday!
        • by foniksonik (573572) on Sunday June 01 2008, @05:56PM (#23620957) Homepage Journal
          ahemmmm.... muscles ARE controlled by the mind... voluntary and involuntary. The method they used was to 'train' the prosthetic by asking the guy to do something, seeing how the arm responded to his mental commands/instincts/whatever, then re-calibrated the arm to do the action... with a few days of training you could have the arm responding to a large range of voluntary coordinations.

    • Is the blogger (Dylan Tweney) using the term "lightyears" as a measurement of distance or time?
      Yes, he's using it as a measurement of distance. It's figurative speech - distance is being used as a metaphor for progress.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      In the second video, it was stated that the arm weight was modeled on a womens arm. I think 8.8 pounds was the stated figure, which does not seem like much considering the arm appears to offer the same range of movements as a normal arm.

      I was a bit curious that the nerves were wired to chest muscles ... A bionic ear (cochlea implant) used to use a small rubbery gadget with 64 "needles" that would prick into the aural nerve when the rubber was wraped around it. (which gave 32 channels to excite that bundl