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Robotics United States

UAVs Will Study Californian Smog 79

Roland Piquepaille writes "The California Energy Commission is funding a research effort named CAPPS, short for California AUAV Air Pollution Profiling Study. CAPPS will use autonomous unmanned aerial vehicles (AUAVs) to gather meteorological data as the aircraft fly through clouds over Southern California. The goal is to study smog and its consequences as well as better understand the sources of air pollution. The first flights started in April 2008 and data collection will continue until January 2009. But read more for additional references and photos of these autonomous unmanned aircraft."
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UAVs Will Study Californian Smog

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  • Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)

    by Fear the Clam ( 230933 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:01PM (#23327124)
    The goal is to study smog and its consequences as well as better understand the sources of air pollution.

    Airplanes?
    • If you've ever been around the LA area, you know that it's mostly CARS. There are a LOT of cars out there, sitting idle in traffic frequently.
      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        If you've ever been around the LA area, you know that it's mostly CARS. There are a LOT of cars out there, sitting idle in traffic frequently.

        Cars are remarkably clean these days - only the order of 1/10000th of the emissions as the pre-cat days when LA had it bad, smog-wise.

        Two-stroke engines, on the other hand, are still basically unregulated, and in many cities exceed passenger-vehicle tailpipe emissions as a pollution source. You can easily produce more emissions in 1 hour of mowing your yard than in 10 hours of driving!

        Not even the easy, cheap changes that would give a 99% reduction to two-stroke emissions are being considered, while peopl

  • Although I must say, the nested acronyms just about blew my mind.
  • And why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    Are UAVs better for this job then conventional manned aircraft?

    UAVs make sense where the flight is into harms way, but this?
    • Re:And why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:17PM (#23327382) Homepage

      I assume it's primarily a cost type thing. Flying 4 small automated UAVs is probably cheaper than even 1 manned craft.

      There are other possible reasons too. At their size, it's relatively easy to fly the UAVs at low alititudes (like 1 or 2k feet). They are going to be quiet (unlike a small Cessna) when close to the ground. They could be run 'round the clock, and if they can hold a charge (or they put solar panels on 'em) they could stay up for 12+ hours at a time.

      I can see some real good points for why you may want a UAV.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by EchaniDrgn ( 1039374 )

        They could be run 'round the clock, and if they can hold a charge (or they put solar panels on 'em) they could stay up for 12+ hours at a time.

        I'm not so sure Solar panels would work well in this scheme. Especially since the AUAVs will be flying through the Smog. :-)
      • by RKBA ( 622932 )
        And they undoubtedly take incredibly detailed photos of the people and things "of interest" to the "authorities" as well.
    • Re:And why? (Score:5, Informative)

      by evanbd ( 210358 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:17PM (#23327384)
      They're cheaper to operate, they can stay aloft longer, and they pollute less. What's not to like?
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        I'll grant they can stay aloft longer. But I question the "cheaper to operate" if you figure totally amortized costs for the plane, the maintenance, the bunker for the pilot, the satellite, etc.

        And a plane with a pilot in it has better awareness of other planes, and can fly outside of military airspace.
        • by evanbd ( 210358 )
          Huh? What bunker and satellite? Look at these pictures: we're talking about medium-sized RC planes, except with a camera on board and computers and such. Surely you don't think maintenence and such are free on a large plane?
        • I'll grant they can stay aloft longer. But I question the "cheaper to operate" if you figure totally amortized costs for the plane, the maintenance, the bunker for the pilot, the satellite, etc.

          A pilot in a bunker is a pilot not in the vehicle. So subtract the weight of the safety equipment and the weight of the pilot you should see quite a reduction in fuel costs.
    • These UAVs are too small to be piloted by anyone taller than a GI Joe doll^h^h action figure. Therefore, they are vastly cheaper to own and operate than conventional aircraft. UAVs in general can stay aloft much longer than conventionaly piloted aircraft, although I didn't see airtime figures for these particular ones as I skimmed TFA.
    • I for one welcome our new SkyNet overlords...
    • "When all you have is a hammer all problems look like a nail"
      The UAV's are cheaper to maintain, don't require 100's of hours to learn to fly, don't waste as much, safer (that is if it crashes it won't kill the pilot and probably wont cause as much ground damage) etc etc. The better question is why not?
  • "goals" (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ferzerp ( 83619 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:09PM (#23327246)
    "The goal is to study smog and its consequences as well as better understand the sources of air pollution"
    <tinfoilhat>
    Oh, that's what they say...  But let's just see if they don't get used for citizen surveillance as well...  If they're already flying there, you know someone in power will ask for it.
    </tinfoilhat>
  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:15PM (#23327332) Homepage
    The irony is heavier than the air: UAVs have small, high intensity [low bypass] jet-turbine engines which create a fair bit of NOx [smog] themselves.

  • by Nate Fox ( 1271 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:16PM (#23327356)
    more crazies seeing UFOs
  • ...So why not study the air pollution in a place where there's more of it?

    You have plenty of options.
  • by yoyhed ( 651244 )
    Our UAV is online!
  • Air pollution has been largely eliminated in the US. Our air has been getting cleaner for 40-50 years now and is now extremely clean, despite what you might hear from activist groups and the news media.

    Here's a report [joelschwartz.com] on the subject.

    If UAVs are needed, it's because we've surpassed the point where the air is adequately clean and we need to take ridiculous measures to try to attain perfection. Perfectly clean air is not needed, is not possible, and is certainly not cost-effective for the public.
    • by CorSci81 ( 1007499 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:27PM (#23327548) Journal
      You must not live in LA. Yes, most days are ok here (at least a vast improvement over the 70s), but there are still days you can see a visible brown haze. Improvements have been made but the problem is definitely not "solved".
      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by Kohath ( 38547 )
        No, I don't live in LA. If the problem isn't "solved" (or almost solved) in LA, then LA is an outlier. Almost all of the cities in the rest of the US have clean air.
        • You may notice they are studying air pollution in California where it is a problem? That other cities in the US have "clean" air is a happy circumstance of their location. California has the some of the strictest emissions standards of anywhere in the US, but because of quirks of local geography and weather, some of the worst air pollution. The other US cities aren't for the most part any cleaner, they just don't have as many people and the wind tends to blow the pollution downstream so it can be Somebod
          • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

            by Kohath ( 38547 )
            You are right about LA and CA.

            But all the cites are much, much cleaner than any time in the last 40-50 years. Especially LA. Efforts to clean up emissions have succeeded.
            • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

              by Anonymous Coward
              Succeeded? I don't think so. The sky is brown. The sky is not supposed to be brown. Maybe you have gotten used to it gradually, and you think it is okay. It is not. The smog in LA is awful, I'm changing jobs to get out of it.
        • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Not all US cities have clean air. Ozone is higher than the EPA's air quality standard in many areas. Here's a map of areas that don't meet the 1-hour criterion:

          http://www.epa.gov/air/oaqps/greenbook/mapo3n.html

          and here's one for the 8-hour criterion:

          http://www.epa.gov/air/oaqps/greenbook/map8hrnm.html

          California suffers from the double whammy of having large cities, plus a range of mountains that traps large masses of air in the valleys where the pollutants build up, but you can see that any largely popula

          • by Kohath ( 38547 )
            They keep making the standards harder and harder to meet as the air gets cleaner. The purpose is to make sure enough areas continue to fail.

            That way, the EPA still needs more funding even if the air is clean.

            By moving the goalposts, they ensure their efforts are always "needed".

            If the standards had not changed, almost every one of these places would pass easily.
      • Los Angeles has it good compared to the entire San Joaquin Valley, Fresno in particular.

        Walking out of the house at 5:30 in the morning (exercise to beat the heat), one notices that the air smells like someone just lit a firecracker. During the day, the haze is orange-brown and often so dense there is no visibility after half a mile.

        The air is so bad, one asthmatic friend of mine who teaches at Fresno State had to move to Santa Cruz. He now commutes twice a week (2.5 hours one way). After his bike rides

    • Air pollution has been largely eliminated in the US. Our air has been getting cleaner for 40-50 years now and is now extremely clean, despite what you might hear from activist groups and the news media.

      Better than it was 50 years ago is nice, but fly into an LA area airport on many days, and your will actually descend through a yellowish-brown layer. Good enough? Not in my book.

      Perfectly clean air is not needed, is not possible, and is certainly not cost-effective for the public.

      Perfect isn't the goal. Paying for illnesses that are caused or aggravated by smog isn't cost effective either, both in terms of economic and human impact.

      I think you are missing the point of the research, which is geared to understanding how pollution moves around the globe, and how far-flung its effects can be.

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by Kohath ( 38547 )

        ...t fly into an LA area airport on many days, and your will actually descend through a yellowish-brown layer...

        The actual number of days in "many days" is in the 20-30 range now. That's down from 200+ days in the past.

        Paying for illnesses that are caused or aggravated by smog isn't cost effective either, both in terms of economic and human impact.

        Asthma is negatively correlated with air pollution. See this report [johnlocke.org], page 10.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          ...t fly into an LA area airport on many days, and your will actually descend through a yellowish-brown layer...

          The actual number of days in "many days" is in the 20-30 range now. That's down from 200+ days in the past.

          I live in the Inland Empire which gets the smog from LA. Lately, I've been in the habit of taking a morning walk at a park in the foothills of the mountain range that forms a northern border of the greater LA area. That puts me at about the same elevation as the smog layer.

          About half the time there's too much haze (white fogginess) to see the smog layer. On days without haze, the smog layer (brown fogginess) is usually visible. Some days it's hard to ignore, other days you have to look for it - but it's r

        • I normally enjoy differences of opinion between people; it gives the opportunity for intersting conversation. However, when you start fudging data and call it fact, I have a problem with that.

          The actual number of days in "many days" is in the 20-30 range now. That's down from 200+ days in the past.

          I don't live in LA, but I travel there frequently, and speak daily people who live there. Better is still not good enough. You don't give a source here, but if it's as reliable as your next one, it's not worth much.

          Asthma is negatively correlated with air pollution. See this report [johnlocke.org], page 10.

          No. Wrong. The graph in Joel Schwartz's report you cite attempts to correlate ozone (not overall

          • by Kohath ( 38547 )
            Those certainly are a lot of links to agencies with a vested interest in maintaining their funding by hyping the air pollution/disease connection.

            You sound like a lawyer, BTW. What does asthma caused by pets have to do with air pollution? Are there fewer pets on high pollution days? I'm not sure why you'd want to muddy the waters with irrelevancies.

            --

            My main point was that the air is cleaner. It's so clean that it's no longer a problem in most places in the US. There are anti-freedom agencies and activ
            • You sound like a lawyer, BTW.

              Hmm. I'm not sure whether I should feel insulted. I think I'll take it as a compliment, although I generally have a dim view of most lawyers. ;)
              FWIW, IANAL. I work with computers.

              What does asthma caused by pets have to do with air pollution? Are there fewer pets on high pollution days?

              Asthma has different triggers. The report compares urban and rural environments, but does not explore the differences between them. The report assumes that all asthma cases reported relate directly and only to ozone. Attributing all these cases to ozone is erroneous.

              For example, since urban locations have more restricti

      • by dbcad7 ( 771464 )
        If there is useful information "that we don't already know" to be gained, I don't have a problem with it.. but I really don't see much use in doing this myself. As this is limited to Southern CA, it has nothing to do with movement of pollution around the globe.

        Southern Ca also has the San Bernardino mountains, you could just as easily drive up at various elevations and take samples.. but again, I don't think there is going to be anything learned we don't already know. Another thing to consider is this.. Wh

  • Good ol' slashdot, always first with the scoop! What month is it again?
  • by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2008 @02:24PM (#23327504)
    Pay no attention to the government aircraft constantly above your heads. They are only there to study smog.
  • UAVs Will Study Californians [slashdot.org].

    For more, see my post here [slashdot.org].
  • Why UAVs? (Score:2, Interesting)

    IANAM(Meteorologist), but why do they need UAVs? Couldn't they just rig up a series of regular weather balloons?
    • and how do you limit the height of a weather ballon?

      you either tie it to the ground, or remotely operate it like a blimp.

      Planes can cover a larger area which is more useful for taking a variety of air samples with a smaller number of craft.
      • by e2d2 ( 115622 )
        Kind of hard to steer a balloon too. Maybe a blimp?

        But you don't see many blimps flying in wind above a few knots. For instance, flying into a 20 kt headwind (not uncommon at even low altitudes), a blimp would be standing still if not moving backwards over the ground.

        There may be some more novel approaches to come, but a winged UAV is a practical unmanned vehicle that is cheap and doesn't require a trained pilot to fly. They aren't trying to invent a novel UAV, they are trying to study an ocean of air.
    • Weather balloons go where the wind goes - whether or not the weather of interest is in that direction.
  • Big Brother gets it's foot, er wings, in the door yet again with a plausible reason which moves towards totalitarianism. I can't believe that you American's keep falling for that over and over and over again. The next thing you know all your home electronics such as butt plugs will have cameras, microphones, tracking devices along with dna sampling redundantly built in along with mesh wifi to report the data to their google powered data warehouses for full 7x24x366xLifeTime information awareness about you a
  • That's good, so they can mount the sensors ahead of the engine. Otherwise they might collect data on their own emissions rather than what they are flying thru.
  • After 5 years, and $10 million dollars invested on advanced UAV research, it has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that the smog levels in LA are.... Really Bad.
  • Armed? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Will they be packing Hellfire missiles to deal with "gross polluters"?

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