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The Science of Iron Man

Posted by timothy on Thu May 01, 2008 10:18 AM
from the no-duh-it's-iron-man dept.
holy_calamity writes "New Scientist takes a look at the evidence-base behind the science and technology in the new blockbuster Iron Man, and finds it is pretty solid. From exoskeletons to real-time translation there are at the very least proof-of-concept demonstrations of pretty much all the glitzy tech the hero Tony Stark uses."
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  • It doesn't have hands yet, but it works. You even step into the boots with your feet in the same way Ripley did in Aliens.

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/25/sarcos-military-exoskeleton-becomes-a-frightening-reality/ [engadget.com]
    • Pretty neat, but the PowerLoader didn't have hands either - just clamps. The video you linked does have a hook and while it's not quite the same thing, it does offer a similar utility.
      • Loved the scene with the Power Loader; Cameron set it up fair and square, then managed to make me forget all about it until the critical instant. Nicely done.

        But for the record, a very similar scene was in an Iron Man comic book years before ALIENS. (Issue #19, Tony in the old armor vs a rogue Life Model Decoy android in the new armor.) They'll never use it in an Iron Man sequel now, because everyone would go "Boo, ALIENS rip-off!" and that's really unfair.

  • http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn13815&print=true [newscientist.com]
    Without the ads and other extraneous stuff.
    • Without the ads and other extraneous stuff.
      Thanks, but you do realize the whole article is a promotional advertisement for the movie? One which has gone further viral by getting it on /.

      It's spam really. Spam we like, but nonetheless, spam.
  • by Kamineko (851857) on Thursday May 01 2008, @10:25AM (#23263748)
    All that's left now is to find somebody who looks like Robert Downey Jr. in real life.
  • For once, it looks to be at least within the realm of possible science (i.e. real science-fiction as the term implies, not the usual hollywood acid trip scripts).

    Oh, and none of the "I got bitten by a mutant spider/got exposed to gamma ray/etc" crap that is usually associated with american super-heroes.

    • Sure, now all you have to do is work around the fact that the human body isn't aerodynamic, that there's no space for fuel, and make a rocket engine fast enough to outrace a fighter jet, yet fit into a shoe. Sounds like a SMOP to me.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        And we'll never be able to make a computer small enough to fit in a shirt pocket.

        Science-fiction is fiction based on science. It doesn't require actual, current technology, only theoretically possible technology.

        Just because you think it's not possible with today's technology doesn't mean it'll never exist.

        In any case, a rocket-jet-inside-a-shoe is still at least more believable than some guy being bitten by a spider who can then hold a tramway full of people with his bare hands.
        • In any case, a rocket-jet-inside-a-shoe is still at least more believable than some guy being bitten by a spider who can then hold a tramway full of people with his bare hands.

          No. The rocket in a shoe violates conservation of mass and energy. There is no such thing as a reactionless thruster, and likely never will be unless the laws of physics are much different than we imagine them to be. A physical being the size of spider man holding up a tram full of people is at least physically possible.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              "The whole world is only what we imagine it to be"

              No.

              "So, I think both spider-man and iron-man are equally possible."
              neither are possible.

              Both can be fun.
        • "Science-fiction is fiction based on science. It doesn't require actual, current technology, only theoretically possible technology."

          Then you please can tell us what's the theoretical possibility for some one hundred kilograms mass the form a human body to be pushed from their feet and be able to control it without any control surfaces -on the air? (do you know what happens with a back-traction car on a slipery road? Then think about the same on a 1000 times more slipery "road": the air).

          No to talk about th
      • What they don't show is the fact before he puts on the suit he has beans.
      • Sure, now all you have to do is work around the fact that the human body isn't aerodynamic, that there's no space for fuel, and make a rocket engine fast enough to outrace a fighter jet, yet fit into a shoe. Sounds like a SMOP to me.

        Actually it's not that improbable, just expensive. The human body is actually decently aerodynamic if the air is traveling from the head down to the feet. Yes, the human form won't function as a lifting body on its own but that's easily solved by adding some strategic fins and surfaces to a suit, perhaps ones that can be extended and collapsed at will.

        Honestly though, you don't need to have lifting surfaces to fly, all you need is properly directed thrust. That takes energy and a lot of it. What you ne

    • by jellomizer (103300) on Thursday May 01 2008, @10:36AM (#23263898)
      "I got bitten by a mutant spider/got exposed to gamma ray/etc" crap that is usually associated with american super-heroes

      That is not really the Science Fiction part of the story. It is just a plot forwarding device to explain how the person got the powers. Even Iron Man really isn't Sci-Fi they are more under "Modern Fanticy"

      Good Sci-Fi uses unheard of technology or really advance technology to forward the plot. Bad Sci-Fi uses unheard of technology or really advance technology to resolve the plot (I talking to you Star Trek Fans (Espectially Voyager))
      • Um okay just where does iron man keep his rocket fuel? Positional thrusters?

        Where can i get some boots with engines capable of mach 2? A real life mach 2 engine is much larger than a man.
        • Nuclear Energy. That solves all problems right.
        • A real life mach 2 engine is much larger than a man.
          That is certainly true... But it is also irrelevant.

          If you go back a couple dozen years it was outright impossible to build an engine capable of mach 2. We didn't have the science or technology to make it happen. It was maybe a glimmer in some technician's imagination, but that's it.

          And before that we didn't even have the ability to fly at all.

          Today we have cell phones with more processing power than an entire building full of computers a few years back.

          We've got tiny motors in toys and gizmos that were also flat-out impossible a few years back.

          Sure, by today's standards Iron Man is completely impossible, but that really doesn't mean much. I'm not claiming that such a thing will ever actually be possible... But claiming that our current understanding of science and technology is as good as it is ever going to get is awfully arrogant.
      • Say what you want about ST:Voyager, but at least the Doctor was one of the most entertaining character I ever saw (witty remarks without completely realizing it, etc).

        I'd love to see a Seinfeld-style sitcom with the Doctor (Voyager), Data (Next Generation) and Julian Bashir (DS9).

        Star Trek: The Seinfeld Chronicles.
        • Well The Doctor was a character used to extend the plot, at least in the early seasons having a charactor who had limitations (suck in the sickbay, and 0 people skills). Foricing other people to expand their jobs as Medics, that was a good idea. But Resolving the final plot by the captian from the future giving them High Tech that lets them blast away the borg and armor that borg cant hit them really was just pushing it. The problem was whenever they were pushed in a spot in the plot that they can't poss
    • Oh, and none of the "I got bitten by a mutant spider/got exposed to gamma ray/etc" crap that is usually associated with american super-heroes.
      tell me about it.

      after watching spiderman, i was so psyched.
      I went right home, caught a spider, microwaved it for a few seconds to mutate its DNA a little bit, then I took it out and let it bite me.

      and guess what?

      No superpowers

      spiderman is bullshit.
      this ironman fellow, this is real superhero stuff for sure...
      • after watching spiderman, i was so psyched. I went right home, caught a spider, microwaved it for a few seconds to mutate its DNA a little bit, then I took it out and let it bite me. and guess what? No superpowers
        You think that's bad? I wanted mutant superpowers like my hero, The Tick, but instead I just got Lyme disease.
      • I always found the lesson Spiderman teaches a little weird; if you get bitten by a spider and start stumbling around and seeing everything blurred don't tell a soul, pretend like nothing happened, and go up to your room to sleep.
      • You didn't use the right kind of spider! You need a spider that already has some serious mojo that can be enhanced by the radiation.

        I used a Brown Recluse. After a couple seconds of microwave enhancement, I let it bit me. And damned if I didn't develop a bad-ass super power:

        Necrotic Lesions.

        Sure, sure, doesn't sound like much. But you just have to be creative. Normally I keep them covered up, but when I'm say getting the jump on some bank robbers, I just expose my hideous gaping wounds and dead flesh, and they toss their cookies giving me ample time to shoot them or whatever. It's awesome. Everyone should get super powers like mine.
    • For once, it looks to be at least within the realm of possible science...Oh, and none of the "I got bitten by a mutant spider/got exposed to gamma ray/etc" crap that is usually associated with american super-heroes.

      Of course, there are somewhat realistic aspects of the suit, but there are still problems. Notably, how are you going to generate power, how do you make something that sleek-looking also structurally sound enough to pull off the stunts he pulls, and how are you going to actually fly that suit.

      • The suit is nuclear-powered. Lots of people here have never read the comic, it seems! For shame!
    • Realism aside, there's another good thing about Iron Man. He got his powers on purpose. He wasn't accidently bitten by a spider, and he didn't go into space with crappy shielding. He built his armor. He really IS a self-made superhero.
  • Apart from the science reality, I'm more impressed with how close (at least from what I've seen) Iron Man sticks to the comic. It isn't set in WWII but that was a decision whoever directed/wrote/produced it made to appeal to the audience today. I'm not sure if I'll actually go see it but at least Uwe Boll didn't direct it.
  • Huh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by wile_e_wonka (934864) on Thursday May 01 2008, @10:33AM (#23263854)
    But I thought

    He was turned to steel
    In the great magnetic field
    Where he traveled time
    For the future of mankind
    I must be confused.
    • Hey, no spoilers! The movie isn't even out yet. Next you'll be telling us some other important plot point, something like him rising from his grave to kill the people he once saved. Have some respect.
    • If he's an Iron Man, I get why he would be partially made of steel (since it's an alloy). However ... why does Iron Man have lead boots, in the song? :)
  • It's nice that Stuart Ross thinks he can develop rocketbelts to enable people to fly. However, until someone comes up with a way to store the, apparently, unlimited fuel necessary to power a suit such as Iron Mans, and have it weigh, again, apparently, next to nothing, we will never see flying suits of armor.

    Forget for a moment that a large percentage of people can't safely drive a vehicle on the ground at 65 mph. We now want to develop suits of metal capable of flying hundreds of miles per hour (Iron Man can out run jets and other craft)?

    Then there is all his armament that he carries within the suit. How many rounds of ammunition, not to mention various missiles and such, is he carrying? Yeah, I thought so.

    Yeah, yeah, I realize this is all fantasy and it makes for good enjoyment. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and try to claim that everything developed in a fantasy environment is directly translatable to real life.

    Super-duper computers capable of interacting with humans? Sure. It will take some time but it is feasible and most likely probable. New uber-compounds which can retain their shape or make repairs to themselves? Already happening. Suits of armor capable of flying hundreds of miles per hour? Not gonna happen.

    On a side note, is it just me or do Downey's whoops and hollers sound flat? I realize he wasn't actually flying but his yelling just doesn't seem, to me, to be indicative of someone who's flying in a suit of armor.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      But let's not get ahead of ourselves and try to claim that everything developed in a fantasy environment is directly translatable to real life.

      Nobody is claiming that.

      The "unlimited energy" thing is an extremely obvious impossibility, as are others. This article focuses on those "super power" aspects which do have a plausible amount of reality behind them.
  • Right. He develops a new tiny power source that produces megawatts. Out of scrap.

    If he developed a new power source that good, commercializing it would put the oil states out of business. Success is the best revenge.

    "My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel." Sheikh Rashid Bin Saeed Al Maktoum (Dubai) 1912-1990.

  • The article contains some spoilers. If you want to see how the movie unfolds for yourself, save reading the article until after you've seen it.
  • by plopez (54068) on Thursday May 01 2008, @10:50AM (#23264118)
    I got a kick out of them using the old Black Sabbath song. Since, far from being a savior, Iron Man ends up destroy all humans. I'm not sure if that is what the movie makers intended.
    • Considering what Tony Stark/Ironman did during the retarded "Civil War" series, I'd say the song pretty much sums it up. :-(
  • Glad to hear the science is plausible. Otherwise, I might have had to suspend my disbelief in order to enjoy the movie at all!
  • What's with these thinly-veiled blockbuster release promotions in "legitimate" media? Seems like every time a new blockbuster comes out, science shows start doing their "The science of..." specials on the figments of a comic book writer's imagination.
  • by illegalcortex (1007791) on Thursday May 01 2008, @11:10AM (#23264438)
    For an another opinion:

    Iron Man's Suit Defies Physics -- Mostly [wired.com]

    By James Kakalios

    Tony Stark's amazing suit is a long way from realization, mostly due to practical energy constraints.

    As a comic book fan and physics professor, I am looking forward to the big screen debut of Iron Man. This is due, in part, to the fact that instead of getting belted with gamma rays or being born a demon from hell, industrialist and scientist Tony Stark got his super powers by means of his engineering genius.

    But just how realistic is Stark's amazing suit?

    Sadly, nearly all of the features of the Iron Man suit, with one important exception, are not likely to be realized anytime soon. Let's look at each of the suit's major elements in turn.

    Jet boots

    The reason that we don't fly to work using boot-mounted jets as Iron Man does has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with energy. We know how to achieve thrust and propulsion using personal jet packs, and a person can indeed fly from home to their place of employment like Buck Rogers or Adam Strange -- provided they live 30 seconds from work.

    The problem is that lifting a full-grown person 100 feet into the air considerably increases their potential energy, and that gain in energy must come from the stored chemical energy in the jet pack. Ditto for the energy required to zip around once airborne. You just can't store enough energy to make long flights without making the suit too big to wear. So jet boots alone don't make Iron Man an escapist fantasy, but the idea that Stark could store enough energy in his suit to fly for more than half a minute does.

    Repulsor rays

    Similarly, the directed energy weapons Iron Man uses, such as the "repulsor rays" built into the palms of his gloves, should require that Stark drag along a large power generator whenever he faces off against the Mandarin or Titanium Man. I'm not exactly sure what a "repulsor ray" is, but if it's anything like a high-power laser, then the energy demands are considerable.

    Even assuming that Iron Man can convert any stored energy in his suit into laser light with 100 percent efficiency, then to generate a beam powerful enough to melt a fist-size hole through a half-inch thick steel plate (which any comic book fan can tell you is well within Shellhead's capabilities) would require an energy pulse of more than 2 gigawatts of power, greater than the output of a nuclear power plant.

    Cybernetic helmet

    There is one aspect of Iron Man's armor that is not only scientifically sound, but may be available for our use someday soon: the "cybernetic helmet" Tony Stark uses to control the devices within his armor. When Iron Man wants to discharge his palm-mounted repulsor rays, he does not have to manually release a safety switch, enter a firing sequence code or even pull a trigger -- he just tells the supervillain to "talk to the hand" and fires!

    In fact, Bin He of the Department of Biomedical Engineering at the University of Minnesota [umn.edu] has already created a helmet much like Iron Man's. It works on the principle that neurons' electrical currents create electric and magnetic fields, which can be detected with devices such as the electroencephalograph, or EEG. While the EEG has been around since the 1920s, recent advances in signal processing have enabled scientists to isolate and identify the firing signatures of neurons associated with particular motor-imagery tasks.

    Professor He identified the specific firing pattern that arises when a person, watching images on a computer monitor, tries to mentally move a cursor to the left or right. These detected frequencies can then be amplified and, when suitably modified, can instruct the computer to move the cursor in the same direction.

    Of course, He is not int

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Hydrogen peroxide powered rocket packs fly for around 30 seconds, because they have a specific impulse of around 125, meaning that one pound of propellant can make 125 pound-seconds of thrust, meaning that it takes about two pounds of propellant for every second you are in the air. Mass ratios are low for anything strapped to a human, so the exponential nature of the rocket equation can be safely ignored.

      A pretty hot (both literally and figuratively) bipropellant rocket could manage about twice the specifi
    • Well, I disagree in two ways.

      One is that the current implementations being "sometimes-acceptable" means they don't count as a "proof of concept". Actually I think that's exactly what it means, same as muscle-enhancing exoskeletal body armor is very much in a "proof of concept" stage, and not actually usable in real-world deployments yet.

      Second is that to actually improve the translation to the point where it is accurate requires a hard AI. Surely translation algorithms, enhanced with knowledge of colloqui