Columbia Holds Wake For Historic Cyclotron

Pickens writes "They called it leviathan, behemoth, Big Bertha. At 12 feet wide, rising 7 feet above the cement floor and weighing an estimated 65 tons, the Columbia cyclotron, the particle accelerator built in the late 1930s by Columbia physicist John Dunning, played a crucial role in the dawn of the nuclear era. Dunning's experiments verified fission, established many of its properties, and, most significantly, demonstrated that the rare isotope Uranium 235, and not the more common U-238, was the more fissionable form of the element. 'In a week or two, they will dismantle it, and they will sell it for scrap,' says George Hamawy, Columbia University's director of radiation safety. 'This is the last chance to see it,' Hamawy added as students held a wake and contractors arrived to remove the cyclotron. 'We're going to make two-thousand-pound sections,' said one contractor before taking the cyclotron's measurements. 'We'll start slicing on Monday.'"

a piece of history

[aleph42 (1082389)]

A piece of history has never been so heavy.

Mod parent down

[aleph42 (1082389)]

Mod parent down; he's unapropriate (think of the Godwin laws!), completly fails to nail that pathetic pun he might have been aiming for ("owning a piece of history..." would have definitly been better), is unfunny, and most of all he STOLE MY FIRST POST!

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[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

Oops. Forgot to click the [X] Post Anonymously box, huh?

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[aleph42 (1082389)]

I think you missed the joke.

Anyways, I was assamed of that lame first post, so I tried to make it better with some recursive humor. I guess that will be my "I've got karma to burn" day.

He, I also removed my sig to see how many people will not notice I made the "mod parent down" post, and mod it down.

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slow day.

Other possibilities

[wasted (94866)]

I was expecting an IT department joke, saying something along the lines of the contractors beating the IT students and faculty at being the first to hack their cyclotron.

Or maybe a force joke, talking about how a portion of its magnet would be an attractive momento.

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[aleph42 (1082389)]

To the guy who modded the parent as troll:

Congrat, you've one upped me in reccursiv humor! Seriously, that was really funny. Now it's up to the meta-mods to sort our mess ;)

Deeznutz!

[BadAnalogyGuy (945258)]

With a little elbow grease, you can build a cyclotron at home. The concept is pretty simple. Two D-shaped conductors separated by a short gap.

Reviled editor michael reported on it back in 2002.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/20/1626204&tid=134&tid=14 [slashdot.org]

Definitely worth trying out once.
Once.

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[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

And why would you want to build a cyclotron in your basement, huh? You must be a terrorist.

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[Ambitwistor (1041236)]

Yeah, with a little elbow grease and a 4600 pound, 4 kilowatt magnet [rutgers.edu]. Which most of us have lying around at home.

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[wattrlz (1162603)]

Yeah, with a little elbow grease and a 4600 pound, 4 kilowatt magnet [rutgers.edu]. Which most of us have lying around at home.

Beat your SUV into a core and wrap all the cable from your speaker system around it, and there you go, two tonne multi-kilowatt magnet.

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[dintech (998802)]

All sounds plausible except I don't think he has enough speaker cable.

Can it not be preserved?

[LLKrisJ (1021777)]

Givin it's importance in the development of nuclear science, it might be nice to preserve it somehow I would think...

Re:Can it not be preserved?

[hcdejong (561314)]

Some of its parts have been sent to the Smithsonian years ago. All that's left is the magnet.

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[WgT2 (591074)]

Magnet, eh?

Note to self: leave hard drive at home.

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[Dr. Cody (554864)]

Could one consider those early devices for electromagnetic enrichment of uranium to be cyclotrons? Is this one of them?

Re:Can it not be preserved?

[spongeworthy (552283)]

No and no. This is (was) not an enrichment device. It is a research device. You might be thinking of a calutron, which was a primitive enrichment device.

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[Dr. Cody (554864)]

Thanks!

I heard an interesting anecdote about the picture you occasionally see of its operators (a dozen young women, sitting on stools, in front of analogue instrument panels). Apparently, they were completely in the dark about what this facility was doing, but sat there all shift staring at gauges and what-not with instructions to inform a supervisor if something exceeded a given limit.

Re:Can it not be preserved?

[Dun Malg (230075)]

Givin it's importance in the development of nuclear science, it might be nice to preserve it somehow I would think...

Look, we can't be expected to save every damn thing that ever played an important role in history. Things have a limited useful life. Who's ever going to go see the remains of a 70+ year old cyclotron. Were you p[lanning on seeing it, only to be disappointed to hear it was being scrapped? I doubt it. It's not like they're filling in the grand canyon. It's a giant lump of scrap metal. Let it go.

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[spongeworthy (552283)]

I'm sure somebody figured out it's worth a lot more to sell for scrap (plus there's the advantage of reclaiming the disused real estate) than any possible sentimental value it may have.

Cyclotron in Berkeley that you can climb on

[Cliff Stoll (242915)]

One of the first Cyclotrons is on display, outside in the weather, at the Lawrence Hall of Science in Berkeley, California. The 37 inch Cyclotron is big -- you can climb on it, although you'll get pretty rusty. (In fact, only the magnet's core is on display; the Cyclotron's Dees are missing). For a photo with seven Nobel Laureats standing in front of the ol' beast, see http://dsd.lbl.gov/Seaborg.talks/65th-anniv/27.html [lbl.gov]

It was always disposable

[jotok (728554)]

No matter how large, complex, or beautiful anything we make is, it is all essentially disposable. We inevitably attach sentiment to things like cars or houses or boats or gigantic cyclotrons but they are just...things.

Look, the Navy has all this romantic imagery associated with plying the seas in deadly warships (read "Choosers of the Slain" by Kipling) but almost all ships end up as razor blades or sunk for target practice. Likewise a lot of us have fun tinkering with computers...but over the past 5 years haven't we all broken down and rebuilt assorted Frankenboxes for this project or that project a hundred times over?

It's the adventure of DOING stuff with the things that is important, not the things themselves. As impressive as the cyclotron is, it's the science and discovery that are really meaningful.

Re:It was always disposable

[blincoln (592401)]

It's the adventure of DOING stuff with the things that is important, not the things themselves.

The things are important because they provide a tangible link between the events they represent and people who weren't present for them. I wasn't even born when the XB-70 program was underway, but when I visited the Air Force Museum and saw the one remaining prototype, it made all of the things I'd read about it more real to me. None of us (other than the vampires) were alive when the ancient trading routes in the Black Sea were in use, but the artifacts discovered there by Robert Ballard help us understand more about them.
Obviously some things aren't practical to keep around - fleets of obsolete aircraft carriers, for example. But a single cyclotron? What's so important that they need to put in its place?

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[hairyfeet (841228)]

You know,I felt the same when I saw the Razorback [about.com],but I think location is the problem.If it is stuffed in some basement somewhere with little chance of getting it out of there(I read TFA and couldn't really find anything about exact locale) then saving it would be kind of pointless as nobody would see it. For something like this to be of value it needs to be where the public can easily view it,like a museum,or like in the case of the Razorback in a lovely riverfront park where many come to spend a sunny aft

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[hcdejong (561314)]

Yes and no. It's disposable in the sense that the science done on this cyclotron won't be lost when the hardware is scrapped. But I find it does help to be able to see and experience the hardware even if it's not useful anymore. I've visited a number of science and technology museums over the years, and even if I'm familiar with the ideas behind the artefacts shown, they never fail to shed new light on the knowledge I already have.

We inevitably attach sentiment to things like cars or houses or boats or gigantic cyclotrons but they are just...things.

There's a large gap between preserving nothing and preserving everything. Th

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[AbsoluteXyro (1048620)]

Hmmm... Perhaps they should have built it out of Styrofoam!

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[Jeff DeMaagd (2015)]

I wouldn't junk the most notable stuff. What would we know about the ancient Egyptians if they dismantled everything? Most ships are scrapped, but enough are saved so we have a vivid reminder of what things were like in the day.

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[icegreentea (974342)]

Ironically the single biggest Egyptian boat ever discovered was a funeral boat that had been completely dismantled for easy storage to the after life. They even left instructions on the pieces on how to put it back together. Imagine the Enterprise (CVN not NCC) taken apart and left as lego in a ditch.

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[RomulusNR (29439)]

That doesn't mean we should dismantle every last piece of old technology just because it's lost its original usefulness. Having history present, available for us to see, imagine, learn from, is where innovation and progress comes from.

They shouldn't dismantle it. They should build a Museum of Nuclear Physics around it and sell tours to high school field trips.

But I'm sure there's a perfectly wonderful Allen Institute for Public Policy or something slated for the site.

Field strength?

[hcdejong (561314)]

I wonder how strong that magnet is.

Re:Field strength?

[moosesocks (264553)]

Unless it's a superconducting electromagnet, it's probably not all that strong, especially in comparison to the NMR equipment that's likely being used elsewhere in the building.

The largest [wikipedia.org] Cyclotron ever built has a main magnet with a field strength of 0.46 T.

The magnets in your speakers have a field strength of about 1T. Your hard drive probably contains a 1.5T magnet as well.

An NMR (MRI) machine will range from anywhere from 1.5T to 7T (although experimental setups can go a good bit higher [wm.edu]).

The strongest continuous magnetic field produced in a laboratory is 45T.

The strongest pulsed magnetic field ever created was by the Russians at 2,800T (they cheated and used explosives).

The reason the magnet is so "huge" is that the field needs to cover a large area.

They could make more money...

[effigiate (1057610)]

I bet they could bring in more money if they didn't scrap the whole thing, but instead sold small slices of it. No way they could sell ~65 tons worth of slices, but they could get a lot more if they sold off some of the historic piece of equipment. I'd buy a slice.

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[Dun Malg (230075)]

I bet they could bring in more money if they didn't scrap the whole thing, but instead sold small slices of it.

And after they sold 12 slices to all the cyclotron groupies, they'd have to scrap the remaining 99.5% of it. It's not the Berlin Wall, it's a lump of copper and iron. Given the scrap prices for both, the sale of souvenir pieces would be chump change in comparison.

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[spongeworthy (552283)]

I doubt it. You might and maybe a couple hundred others might, but not enough would to make more than the scrap value, especially counting the labor cost of cutting it up in slices people would want to buy.

Time to start the orbital cyclotron

[Thanshin (1188877)]

1 - Dismantled cyclotron.
2 - Catapult.
3 - Orbital assembly robot.
4 - More catapult.
5 - ???
6 - Profit!!!

Proving once more that if your problem can't be solved by extensive use of catapults, it probably doesn't deserve being solved at all.

Auction?

[scubamage (727538)]

Think they'd let us purchase a small chunk for esoteric value? The machine itself isn't leaking radiation and I know there's a ton of nuclear physicists out there that would love a small chunk. Plus it'd prolly be worth more than selling it for scrap if they opened it to the scientific community.

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[hairykrishna (740240)]

I've got some bits of the Nuffield cyclotron in my lab. Old physics equipment rarely dies; it's recycled into the next generations of experiments.

hardhack?!

[stokessd (89903)]

The story is tagged as "hardhack" I suppose that's right, as in "hacked to pieces"

Still seems an inappropriate use of the tag...

Sheldon

Get The Lead Out

[DustyCase (619304)]

Even if the post doesn't say so, I'd bet that this unit is shielded with a LOT of lead. If you have been tracking metals prices lately then you know how valuable this kind of "scrap" has become. At roughly $3k per ton, there is a lot of cash potential here. To quote a wise man: "It's the economy, stupid."

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[swschrad (312009)]

the ROOM may be, but the CYCLOTRON wouldn't be.

assuming you get the beam focussed after filament replacement, etc, the only danger to anything except credit cards, people standing between loose steel and the moosey magnet, etc. is behind the target window in the chamber casting.

and they probably had an old cardboard sign, faded, near that point.

this is why stuff like this is built underground with no easy access. Mother Earth is your shield, suffering those protons and (later) neutrons for you.

!battlestargalactica

[Hognoxious (631665)]

The bovine vulva (without even a dash of chilli sauce) munching bastards have taken away my tagging rights, so can anybody explain to me WTF this has to do with Battlestar Galactica?

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[alta (1263)]

The story is about the cyclotron... Battlestar (which I don't watch) has cyclons for the bad guy.

Fun

[The Dobber (576407)]

Spencer R. Weart, director of the Center for History of Physics at the American Institute of Physics, a private group in College Park, Md., said the only cyclotron that rivaled Columbia's in importance was at the University of California, Berkeley. There, he said, the school put one of the great magnets outdoors on permanent display.

That must make for some fun times, little cars suddenly veering off the road.

News travels slow

[solamentedoug (1262002)]

I work on the 12th floor of Pupin and I'm just now hearing about this. Perhaps I could sneak a chunk of debris. The larger cyclotron at Irvington has been dismantled and the concrete shielding is just sitting outside, rusting away. You can see it strewn about: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=nevis+laboratory&sll=40.855949,-73.927085&sspn=0.009186,0.023367&ie=UTF8&ll=41.02768,-73.873587&spn=0.000573,0.00146&t=h&z=20&iwloc=B [google.com]

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[by Anonymous Coward]

and the concrete shielding is just sitting outside, rusting away.

Wow! That must be some wicked concrete if it's rusting away.

(Posting anonymously due to having moderated this thread)

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[Govno (779519)]

Just because I'm curious, how exactly is a concrete shield rusting?

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[solamentedoug (1262002)]

Like most large items made of concrete, its reinforced with steel, like rebar. The parking lot is stained a lovely brown from it. In summer, the whole lot of them are covered in vines. Very Logan's Run.

Big Bertha? 12 feet?

[mmontour (2208)]

<dundee>That's not a cyclotron. That's [triumf.info] a cyclotron.</dundee>

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[quarrel (194077)]

.. they DID send the good bits to the Smithsonian ..

--Q

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[unapersson (38207)]

I thought the propaganda this week was that nuclear is clean, green and the energy of the future. So why wouldn't everyone want a piece of that action?

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[SatanicPuppy (611928)]

Nah. Typical hawkish fud. Iran may float on oil, but they import most of their gasoline and are forced to subsidize the cost of it so their citizens can afford to fill up their cars...In short, crude oil isn't much use if you can't refine it, and why the hell would they want to pay a premium to get their own oil back after we refine it for them?

Anyway, there are scarier people out there with nukes already. Anyone who focuses on the middle east is doing it because all that oil is giving them a stiffy.