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Canadian Nuke Bunker To Be Converted Into Data Fortress
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Dec 16, 2008 01:02 PM
from the canada-has-nukes? dept.
from the canada-has-nukes? dept.
miller60 writes "A hosting firm has purchased a nuke-resistant bunker in Novia Scotia, and plans to convert it into a data fortress for financial firms. Bastionhost hopes to attract European financial firms wary of housing sensitive data in the US due to the USA Patriot Act. The facility is one of a series of 'Diefenbunkers' built during the tenure of Prime Minister John Diefenbaker to keep the Canadian government running in the event of a nuclear attack. While not all of these underground data bunker projects work out, a similar nuke-proof bunker in Stockholm, Sweden was recently converted into a stylish high-tech data lair for an ISP."
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I remember our planning in DND (Score:5, Informative)
Basically, when we ran the numbers for nuclear war beyond a single missile, we realized the resulting nuclear winter would result in all Canadian forces and almost all of the population dying within months, and stopped wasting time on nuclear weapons, as the cost for security was higher than the deliverables of conventional weapons which were not subject to the constraints.
Basically, being in Vancouver BC at the time, you knew you had at least 10 nukes coming down, and even if intercepted, the EMP blast would take out all commercial systems and the radiation and fire storms would destroy all urban centers beyond useful measure.
So the two bunkers were a total waste of time, only there so the politicos could say they had a plan, and served no useful part, from any of our strategic war games planning.
Re:I remember our planning in DND (Score:5, Funny)
Since when did Dungeons and Dragons have nuclear missles? Is that a 4th edition thing?
Parent
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Department of National Defense, also goes by the French acronym.
At one point, after remuster, I was Chief Clerk for Pacific Region.
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Since when did Dungeons and Dragons have nuclear missles? Is that a 4th edition thing?
Yeah, it's called otiluke's flaming nuclear hellball. But it can only be used by lawful evil.
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"Since when did Dungeons and Dragons have nuclear missles? Is that a 4th edition thing?"
We call it a magic missile. Present in DNDv2 and nerfed in v3, creating the present magic missile.
Casting magic missile meant wiping out the entire dungeon. Good times, good times.
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Isn't that just a fireball? Back when I played, we used to refer to them as nukes.
Re:I remember our planning in DND (Score:4, Funny)
It looks as sturdy as Windows XP's default wallpaper, they might as well paint a big bullseye on it, its inhabitants should hope that the neighbor's kid dosen't own a BB gun or that the tree dosen't come crashing down on it, etc. etc.
Parent
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Furthermore, there were more than just two bunkers, in fact there were seven. The one in Alberta was sold to a farmer, and was subsequently repurchased at a much higher price by the government when they realised that he was going to resell it to a chapter of the Hell Angels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diefenbunker
Re:I remember our planning in DND (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems to be you're trying to make yourself into something you're not: interesting.
The best way to not volunteer information would have been to never post in the first place, especially if you didn't want the inaccuracies in your posts pointed out.
Cheers
Parent
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And get picked up by all the underwater listening stations?
I know of at least a couple on the BC coast, but I won't say where they are, as the drug smugglers don't need that knowledge. They've been known to damage them in the past.
I must say I'm rather impressed by the secrets the Forces have been able to maintain. There is a lot of stuff that isn't public knowledge.
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don't work. missile defense (for a brief part I worked in Boeing Military side) is pretty much a waste of time and money.
interception of long range missiles is not a solution.
Re:I remember our planning in DND (Score:5, Funny)
I'm just amazed that they thought someone would bother nuking Canada. The only people I can think of who would bother are Boston Bruins fans but they would just hit Montreal.
Parent
Re:I remember our planning in DND (Score:5, Informative)
And, even the Bruins fans will recall the Christmas trees we've been sending down for the last 90 years in gratitude for help after the Halifax Explosion. [wikipedia.org]. There's actually a fairly strong bond between Atlantic Canada and the New England states -- a lot of Empire Loyalists left that area to come to Canada after the Civil war. Some of my ancestors included.
But, on a more serious note, Halifax is a sheltered, deep harbour with a Navy base and an air base. Growing up there during the last bits of the cold war, we were all aware of the fact that we were on the list. It was kind of a depressing fact when we were kids and there was more saber rattling. :(
Cheers
Parent
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a lot of Empire Loyalists left that area to come to Canada after the Civil war. Some of my ancestors included.
Were they hiding in the time between the Revolutionary war and the Civil war?
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Looking to where I live, the bunker in BC is in the illogical location of Nanaimo. The government and the entire Canadian fleet is in Victoria (100km away), and the financial centre is in Vancouver (
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'... would destroy all urban centers beyond useful measure.'
So, it's not all bad, then.
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It's Nova Scotia (Score:5, Informative)
Then why Canada? (Score:4, Interesting)
If they are worried about the USA Patriot Act, then why Cananda?
I recently returned from Mexico to the US and there was some policy they stated saying if you are a US or Canadian citizen, you don't have to fill out an I-94. Ok, I didn't know they were the same country?
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My thoughts exactly. Doesn't that just mean the NSA then intercepts data via the traditional satellites, listening posts, and cable taps? After all, one of their original mandates is collecting foreign intelligence. They don't need the Patriot Act for that...it's their jobs.
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Re:Then why Canada? (Score:4, Informative)
You're assuming that the Russkies are good shots.
Hell, I worked for the U.S. Air Force, and I wouldn't assume WE were good shots.
If you're living on an extended patch of ground between two nuclear adversaries, you'd have to be pretty cavalier about living to not have some kind of protection against "short rounds".
Parent
Re:Then why Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
The real question is what is Canada doing with nuclear bunkers? Like anyone's going to bother bombing them. :P
You're catching on. These buildings actually have a different primary purpose. They're designed like bunkers so no one could devine their real reason for existence: they're some of the few places in Canada where one can seek refuge from Céline Dion.
Parent
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Canadians crossing the border into the United States are almost always covered by alternate legislation than the Rest of The World. Since I was a child the only identification a Canadian needed was a birth certificate. Since 9/11 the Americans have been trying to require passports for land crossings but it keeps being pushed back, although it is required for air travel by Canadians into the USA now.
I didn't know they were the same country?
No, just good friends.
Barbarians at the gate! (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope they realize that no amount of thick doors and walls or even burying the whole thing underground is going to stop 99.99999% of the attacks on this place, assuming of course that they actually intend to connect it to the Internet. While this is pretty cool I can't really see the point in it. The facility won't be easy to fit cooling, power and connectivity too and because it's underground there is a significant and on going risk of flooding. I would have thought a purpose built above ground facility with soild 5m razor wire topped walls and lots of hungry dogs would have been better.
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But this bunker was built to house a government. It has power, backup power and a backup for the backup power and all kinds of good redundant data connectivity. I've not seen this bunker but the few I've seen are designed to be very robust with multiple backups for everything and then if all else fails there are water, food, tools, parts and equipment stored in closets distributed throughout the facility. Don't assume it's a hole in the ground with just bare concrete walls
a bit spendy? (Score:5, Insightful)
I propose a different plan: Encrypt and decentralize. It's cheaper, you can put your servers most anywhere, and they'll survive anything short of global thermonuclear warfare. But of course, if that does happen... Chances are good you won't care. At least, not for long. It's great to have datacenters that can survive a nuclear fallout, but machines surviving has never been the problem... it's the people that generally don't make it. And good luck running your business without them.
Thebunker.net data center in UK (Score:5, Interesting)
A decade or so ago, thebunker.net bought a UK nuclear bunker to set up a data center. It had good connectivity to power grids, generators, and cheap cooling because it was underground. It also sounded cool, and they were able to sell to lots of London banks concerned about natural disasters and civil disturbances. They were able to get it relatively cheaply, and the savings in cooling costs were really valuable financially during years when other data centers were having trouble making money; I think they've acquired a second bunker by now.
Patriot Act? (Score:2, Interesting)
I hope they realize that a significant amount of Internet traffic goes through the States. I doubt they could 100% guarantee protection from the Patriot Act.
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Good for data warehousing (Score:2)
Plus, extra good when the hungry mobs with pitchforks and torches start looking for people to blame for the current financial situation.
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Novia Scotia??? (Score:2)
"A hosting firm has purchased a nuke-resistant bunker in Novia Scotia..."
Not supposed to be NOVA Scotia?
from the canada-has-nukes? dept...? (Score:2)
Ok, not trying to be overly critical here, but the bunker was intended to protect people from nukes, not to store nukes. What's with the canada-has-nukes business?
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Always good to have a nuclear bunker if your neighbor even has a slight chance to be part of a nuclear conflict.
Reading the link posted in this comment, I just learned that a secret Canada-US agreement has been signed in my city, Quebec.
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So tag it:
!nukes
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Well, we have one of the few nuclear reactors which is used to make medical isotopes for the world supply. We also have some nuclear power plants.
But, you're right. We don't have those kinds of weapons, and don't want them. Our military has largely had peace-keeping and aid missions for the last few decades.
Cheers
The last fallout shelter I was in.. (Score:2)
Nukes-shmukes (Score:4, Funny)
Bahnhof in Sweden already did this (Score:5, Interesting)
Swedish ISP Bahnhof [bahnhof.se] already did this [bahnhof.se]. Still cool though...
/Mikael
I worked in one of these bunkers for 6 months (Score:5, Interesting)
when I was in the Reserves (Communications) I worked down in one of these facilities in Penhold Alberta. Bank vault style doors, a complete hospital, TV studio, a massive number of Government offices etc (If there is a nuclear war going on, why exactly do we need offices for the Unemployment Department?), all built under many feet of steel and concrete buried 30 ft underground and standing on massive springs to reduce shock. They were pretty impressive. They are several stories tall inside and no doubt about as secure a facility as you could ever want to store your servers in :)
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'(If there is a nuclear war going on, why exactly do we need offices for the Unemployment Department?)'
Who is going to be employed following a nuclear war?
Test It Before Buying It (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to work in a converted "nuke-proof" bunker right outside Toronto that Northern Telecom operated as a datacenter. Buried underground and under thousands of tons of concrete. Through a series of Get Smart type security/airlocks. Down the hatch, among the servers, I used to feel more secure than anywhere else I'd ever been.
Until my pager went off.
There's no way that bunker was "nuke proof", if puny radio signals for a pager could get through. And no, they didn't have a repeater or anything - in fact, when I asked if my pager would work down there, they laughed, and told me no, but I'd have to leave mine topside if I had one (or a cell phone, though those weren't common yet) because there wasn't supposed to be any equipment operating in that range down there (even just receiving), as part of the "shielding protocol".
Clearly, the prohibition of them was just a way to hide the fact that they'd work, showing the bunker was "leaky". And then, to prove it, I brought my cellphone down there to use whenever I wanted, despite their protocols.
Seriously? (Score:4, Funny)
My first though as a Canadian was "We have a nuke-resistant bunker?"
My second thought as a Nova Scotian was "WTF? Pass me a Keiths!"
Seriously though, how bizarre. Kinda surprised that we had any (outside of the women packed mine shafts of Carlton U. Everyone knows its not a real university anyway).
Though I suppose if I were going to waste a nuke on Canada I would probably hit Vancouver and Halifax (and maybe Ottawa because of the dirty politicians, and perhaps Toronto, well just because its Toronto, smug bastards...) due to the ports and the possibility the USA using them.
So the bunker is probably in Halifax.
Then again I already have a nuke-resistant bunker in Nova Scotia. Its called my parents place who I will be visiting for Christmas in Kentville. No one in there right mind is going to hit Kentville.
Alternative punchline would be any house in Sask. except maybe Moosejaw (Air force base with jets and everything!).
That said, I think its cool that they are turning it into an IT data center. Fun times.
Re:what (Score:5, Funny)
Parent