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Inexpensive USB LCD With Linux Drivers For LCDproc

Posted by kdawson on Sat Sep 13, 2008 05:25 PM
from the on-the-side dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Windows Vista SideShow technology shows some promise. But what about Linux devices that can present snippets of information independent of the main display? Here's a review of the picoLCD-4x20, a relatively inexpensive USB device ($50) that supports both SideShow on Vista and LCDproc on Linux."
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  • Homebrew angle. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:38PM (#24993979)

    If you are interested in doing this yourself, look into "character LCDs" using the "HD44780" microcontroller. These are easily attached via the serial port...

    Some example character lcd's and pricing [shopeio.com]

    Instructable on doing a character lcd [instructables.com]

    and for the lazy among you,

    Google search for "character lcd hd44780" [google.com]

    Grab your soldering irons and have some homebrew fun! It isn't that hard at all!

    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:49PM (#24994063)

      What's a "serial port"?

    • These are easily attached via the serial port..

      Bad news, I'm already using one serial port for my IR receiver, and the other to set the channel on my Tivax STB-9 Digital TV converter for recording with my PVR.

      So I guess I'm just too geeky for the HD44780 microcontroller. Wow.

      (But seriously, do these work with USB to Serial converters?)

      • Got a parallel port? It's even easier. A 44780 based display won't work with a serial port unless you have a separate micro to do translation.

  • What Linux Device? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kawahee (901497) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:40PM (#24993995) Homepage Journal

    what about Linux devices that can

    What about them? How is this a Linux "device"? It doesn't run Linux, it comes with drivers that make it compatible with LCDproc.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if we're going to set the bar that low I'm going to go out and tell my friends that my Microsoft mouse is a "Linux device" because there's driver support for it on that platform.

      • Your mouse is a device. If it works with Linux, it's a Linux device. That seems fair enough. If it doesn't work with Linux, it's clearly not a Linux device. So off you go, tell your friends.

        I just got one-upped by my friend. While I have a Microsoft "Linux Device" mouse, he has an Intel "Windows Vista Chip" ICH7 Southbridge controller.

  • by compumike (454538) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:40PM (#24994001) Homepage

    It may seem a bit "retro" to be using a character LCD for information display, but from a user interface perspective, there's lots of data that is still textual (e-mail subjects, news, etc) that is nice to have outside of the main work area of our primary monitor displays. Even as resolutions have increased particularly for desktop monitors, the idea that there's a separate device dedicated for a separate stream of information can be a useful notion because it's a "zero-click" way of getting to that knowledge, without dedicating primary monitor real estate there or making annoying popups.

    There's really just a lot of information streams that don't deserve sexy RGB pixels on one's display, and the mental association of looking at a specific gadget to get a specific stream of information is a strong one. Until we have ultra-cheap projectors everywhere and make better use of display surfaces, this is a step in that direction.

    --
    Electronics kits for the digital generation! Microcontroller, LCD, gcc compiler, and more. [nerdkits.com]

    • I could see this in a workplace environment. We use leaderboards to stream data about things like queue information for callers. A manager could have this on their desk and get the same information.
    • by perlchild (582235) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:54PM (#24994099)

      I just wish we'd go back to a bios-based LCD, for when the screen won't work, the ram won't load in, or something similar. A way to indicate a crash without using beeps... Some environments are so noisy it's just not possible to distiguish some combinations.

  • Does anyone out there actually HAVE one of these?

    I wrote them on Friday but they haven't responded yet (which isn't too surprising). I'd love to have one, but the computer I want to use it with uses XP, not Vista or Linux. I've used LCDProc before, but there is no Windows port. I looked at the driver for this thing but it looks like it sends direct USB command (i.e. it doesn't just appear as a serial port). I spend my time in Java (due to my job) so that's what I'd like to program it in, but the main Java-

    • I spend my time in Java (due to my job) so that's what I'd like to program it in, but the main Java->USB API for Windows (jUSB) hasn't updated their page since 2003.

      According to their site, jUSB, despite being dead, never worked on Windows. Have you tried libusbjava [sourceforge.net]? I'm neither a Java nor Windows developer, so this is a suggestion and not a recommendation. I can vouch for libusb on Unix though.

  • !cheap (Score:3, Informative)

    by bradgoodman (964302) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:54PM (#24994095) Homepage
    $50 for a 4x20 Text LCD is not cheap!
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      What I wanted to say as well, $50 at this date for something that shitty is expensive as hell, you get a replacement touchscreen LCD for the DS for like 3.5 dollar or something, and that one is 18 bit 256x192. Who cares about text on LCDs of today? You can probably get that Logitech keyboard with display for that price and use that instead ...

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      Yep! Generic 17" LCD => $75

      This LCD has 4x20x8x5 = 3200 pixels
      That's over $15 per 1k pixels

      Standard color LCD 1024*800 = 819200 pixels
      That's less than $0.1 per 1k pixels

      So you pay x150 more for those pixels without color just to have a few buttons ?

      Not cheap enough for sure !

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Add a USB cable, a few buttons and a plastic shell. With the display and the controller, that's a total of maybe $10 in parts, retail, one-of prices. $50 for the final product is an acceptable price, if you must have the small form factor or the low power consumption, but it is not "inexpensive" or "cheap". You can buy 1024x768 TFTs for $50...

  • too little, too much (Score:5, Informative)

    by frovingslosh (582462) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:56PM (#24994113)
    As far as I can tell, this device is only alpha numeric, no real graphics capabilities.

    While I'm sure that a very small number of people will buy into this, I find it very disappointing and very limited, and pretty damn expensive for what you get. I compare this to my Logictech G15 LCD graphic display device. I paid $60 for mine a little over a year ago, it runs on USB, has similar input buttons near the display, but it does full graphics, and a number of nice aplets are already written for it (although far too few). Oh yea, it also happens to include a full illuminated keyboard, multimedia volume knob and mute button, and 18 user definable macro keys (expandable to 54 or more using the 3 "bank" buttons - but unfortnately the newer version of the Logitech G15 reduces this to just 6 user definable buttons). And they throw in a few extra USB ports too. While some people might not want to use a keyboard with their computer, I kind of suspect that most do, and that mounting a full graphic capable similar sized LCD on a Luminated keyboard is a far better way to go for the vast majority of users, and that a $50 price for just an alpha-numeric display is a bit expensive. Too bad they didn't make it Logitech G15 [wikipedia.org] compatible and put it out at a lower price, but I don't see a likely broad use for this gimic when the G15 is still available, even with it's reduced number of fumction keys in the new version.

    • How's that keyboard work velcroed to a server rack so you can read CPU frequency and server load without firing up a monitor?

      Devices like this are kind of like the Eee PC. If you get it, it's great. If you don't, it makes no sense whatsoever.

      • While you may have identified a very small niche market for this thing, I would suggest that if you have a server farm, there are far better ways to monitor such information remotely from a central point that greatly beat out buying one of these gimmicks for each server. And you should be doing that before playing with this toy. If you actually have to walk up to the server, you very likely do want to be able to see a real monitor (likely a smallish LCM monitor that may not cost much more than this box if
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Or you could just get one of those LCD picture keychains that has something like a 65c02 with a usb interface. 1 or 2 inch graphic lcd that does 20-30 frames per second.

      And you can get them for under $30. Some as low as $15.

      http://spritesmods.com/?art=picframe&page=3&showall=true [spritesmods.com]

      Although last time I checked the software was linux only.

      • The good deal was that it was the first version. The first version is extremely hard to find now, I can't find it for anywhere near that price now (I don't deal with the Evil Bay of Thieves). The newer version can be easily found around $70 with some simple searching, at east it could about a week ago when I last looked). For $20 more than the 4 line text gimmic, I think the illuminated keyboard, graphical LCD display, 2 extra usb ports, and even just 6 extra function keys (and a really handy place to mount
      • I keep seeing the terms SlideShow and LCDProc thrown around, but I'm not clear on the exact applications. It seems curious to me that something that is 4 lines of alphanumeric text can be used by something called SlideShow. Anyway, I can concede that to my knowledge the G15 display doesn't work dierectly with these applications, but the development kit is available and I would expect that if there was a reason to do so someone would build the software (or perhaps already has). Certainly the G15 display can
          • The Linux geeks are not going to miss out on the G15. There's been a G15 linux toolkit [g15tools.com] for several years now. And a search on Google for G15 and Linux gets over 400,000 hits (no, I have not read all of them, yet). Yea, The MSRP is a bit high, but I've seen the keyboard (newer style) for around $70 at several sites in the last week. Picked up mine at $60 on sale when I was looking for a USB keyboard. Those willing to wait and search should likely be able to find a similar sale or some kind of store coupon th
  • While I have been looking for such a device for quite some time, I could build one for $50. For $50, the screen needs to have a higher resolution, and be a bit bigger.
  • There are tons of DYI's for this stuff out there. But what would be interesting, is taking a dead laptop display, and being able to rig it up to my pc, maybe hanging off the wall near the base, being able to display pictures, or data, not like being a second monitor which I have, but as a display of information like weather from my local station, or remote, or pictures or whatever.

    Now that would be interesting...

  • by hack slash (1064002) on Saturday September 13 2008, @07:16PM (#24994517)
    ...4x20 was the screensize of your LAPTOP! [oldcomputers.net]

    I got a working one of those kicking about in my shed, any ideas what I could do with it? besides trying to find replacement rechargable batteries.
  • Logitech G15 anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lattyware (934246) on Saturday September 13 2008, @07:39PM (#24994669) Homepage Journal
    For that price, just buy a Logitech G15. I have one and there are drivers [g15tools.com] and a variety of software [lattyware.co.uk].
  • Save the planet with diskless installation. The device doesn't come with a driver CD, instead when the picoLCD is first connected (self powered USB device) it convinently displays an URL where you can download the latest picoLCD driver!

    Why doesn't every USB device come with its drivers embedded in the device itself, accessible out of the box over the basic USB driver that any OS should come with, which just retrieves the real device driver across the USB, installs it, and then uses it to access the real dev

    • Probably because flash still costs money. Not gigantic amounts, to be sure; but moving up from 8 or 16k embedded in some tichy little controller to 32-64 megs hanging off an expansion bus costs enough that it just isn't really worth it when you can get CDs pressed for approximately nothing in quantity.

      There are also the security issues. Does the world really need even more things that execute blobs of mystery code when you connect them?
      • I don't think these drivers are going to take more than a 64MB Flash ROM, which can't cost more than $1 wholesale. If every USB client chip had "driver Flash" in it, the whole cost couldn't go up much. And saving on the entire process of burning and including a CD would cut into that extra expense, while lowering support costs. USB is more expensive than RS-232, but has taken over because of those kinds of savings and marketable benefits.

        The security issues are exactly the same with the driver embedded in t

        • Of course then we have to decide what kind of driver to put onto the machine. Do we use regular OS-specific drivers? For which OSes? Will there be a convenient way for people to obtain the driver wthout using this feature? Or do we use drivers in some kind of common format? Will drivers using that compatibility layer be performant enough? Which format will we use? Will that format be open? After all, Microsoft is going to invest a lot of money to have the Vista driver model be the standard because that mean
          • We put drivers for the version of Windows, Mac and Linux on the device, if we think those markets justify the cost.

            Why would we need any other way than embedding and a website to get the drivers?

            The only part of the driver model that needs to be standard is the one that gets the real driver off the USB device.

            This problem isn't nearly as complex or hard as you make it out.

        • I agree that driver installation is an unnecessary evil, but I don't see that going away any time soon. Standards bodies for interfaces like USB can only come up with so many standard device classes, so inevitably some new and innovative (or old and unpopular as in this example) product will come out that won't fit into one.

          But I don't think companies will find it practical to use your method. Once you've paid for a flash chip, a micro with enough oomph and extra I/Os to run USB mass-storage and talk to a

    • Re:Or maybe... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kawahee (901497) on Saturday September 13 2008, @05:49PM (#24994067) Homepage Journal

      According to the article you posted, support for *nix is patchy:

      Windows XP (the drivers for Vista were under development at the time of our tests; the support for alternative OSes was not even on the agenda

      Furthermore, using an entire monitor defeats the entire purpose of these devices. These are small, compact devices that are meant to show some vital information at all times with minimum power drain. Running a monitorless server? Put the server load onto one of these things. The server's a spam filter? Put the number of rejected emails per hour on it.

      It doesn't serve as a substitute for performance alerts, but for $40 it's not bad for real-time monitoring when you don't have a monitor or terminal available

      • According to the article you posted, support for *nix is patchy:

        According to the link for the product [mini-box.com] included in the article specs include:

        * Linux drivers and OpenSource SDK

        I'm no expert, but it sounds like at least Linux is supported (though for all I know, the drivers could be next to useless - I've never used them) - the article does a poor job of mentioning this

        The thing that really confuses me about this device is this: USB 2.0 full speed device - if you send USB 2.0 full speed data (at full rate) at a display that only has 80 characters to display, it will b

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          In USB parlance, "full speed" means that the device supports 12Mbps transactions. It has no bearing on the throughput the device must sustain. And the 2.0 part is just marketing fluff: any full speed device is compatible with the 2.0 spec by way of legacy support for 1.1. For the record, "high speed" is the official term for 480Mbps USB, not 2.0.

          Standards organizations are weird.

        • by jmpeax (936370) * on Saturday September 13 2008, @06:00PM (#24994133)

          it's easy enough to spy on the USB port and get the protocol

          Your definition of easy isn't the same as mine!

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              I would probably have gone with USBspy [everstrike.com] because I'm not afraid of commercial software, I just prefer the other kind. I'm sure Sourceforge [sourceforge.net] has something to solve the problem but I'm not actively seeking an answer today so it's better if the grandparent does the rest of this work himself.

        • So even if you happen to be a Computer Science major and reverse engineer your own drivers, you're advocating using an entire monitor to replace a $50 4x20 LCD that runs entirely off a USB port. Why?
          • Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

            Because you could do the same job with a 320x200 USB photo frame for $50, and do it with color images?

            Was that not the answer you were looking for?

            • No, you can't "do the same job" with a $50 photoframe. The $50 USB photo frames you talk about [amazon.com] are not real time displays. The USB link is to transfer photos to/from the memory card. If you want to get real time on a USB photo frame you need one capable of Vista SideShow, and that will set you back $200 [amazon.com].
                • Then recommend a $50 USB frame that supports platform independent real time display instead of USB monitors that require Windows XP. That's the only way to "do the same job".
                    • I read your entire post over three times (just to make sure) but couldn't find a $50 USB frame that supports platform independent real time display.
                    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                      I hope this has been helpful.

                      So helpful was your advice that I travelled back in time and availed myself of Google to make this post [slashdot.org].

                      If you had bothered to Google this you would have seen that cheap, platform independent and real time frames do not exist. They are not real time, they are not platform independent and they are not in the $50 price range.

                      Do not make a recommendation for a platform independent, real time, $50 USB frame when they do not exist

                      Then again, the only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any us

      • Hmm, this could solve the problem with trying to play content with proprietary codecs on Linux systems.

        The solution to this problem is to ignore proprietary codecs. In time they all go away, stranding all the content encoded on them. All the smart people are done converting their data from one proprietary format into another. Once media are encoded in open standards they can remain there forever and you avoid the reencoding work for the rest of forever. If you have the White Album on MP3, you don't ev

        • I see. So when exactly did MP3 go away? I must have missed it.
            • My reading skills seem to be fine, thank you. You wrote:

              > The solution to this problem is to ignore proprietary codecs.

              MP3 is patented in various ways, and still remains an extremely popular, perhaps even the most popular, audio codec. It hasn't 'gone away', and ignoring it will ignore a huge amount of both the available audio material and the available hardware. Simply 'ignoring' it doesn't work.

              And unfortunately, 'ignoring' codecs by converting files from one codec to another can run you afoul of the D

          • Open: Everyone and their grandma's cat has a competing implementation.

                        Alternately, implementing the standard can be treated as a class
                        project for first year CIS undergraduates.

            Whether or not it's "patent encumbered" is another matter.