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$1,000 Spray Makes Gadgets Waterproof
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:34 AM
from the well-thank-god-for-that dept.
from the well-thank-god-for-that dept.
Rio writes "A new $1,000 spray claims to protect notebook computers, iPods, cell phones and other electronic gadgets from liquid, making them completely waterproof, a Local6.com report says. A creator of the technology said it could be used for emergency first-responders, bio-medical devices and historic preservation." This might be a bit of a flashback from last year.
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Submission: $1,000 spray makes gadgets waterproof by Anonymous Coward
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Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
Use it to send an email instead. I wonder if the cell towers down there have 3G or EDGE?
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
Let me introduce you to the sea floor.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
Your lack of relativistic perspective is cute.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Not to spoil a good joke, but why not? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, that big air thingy sticking in my mouth is kind of a hinderance, but go technology!
You can take that out though and talk for a bit (as long as you are breathing out). You can even breathe in if you let the regulator flow directly under your mouth (a required skill to be certified to dive)...
You'd not be very intelligible, but you could speak.
Re:Not to spoil a good joke, but why not? (Score:5, Funny)
I can imagine one good phone call you might make:
"Heblblblblblbp!"
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Re:Not to spoil a good joke, but why not? (Score:5, Informative)
Regulators don't flow air until there is (slight) negative pressure...
normally, yes, however they have a purge button on them that overrides this and forces air to flow, quite useful for clearing them out, or using the regulator to inflate other things, or in case of a malfunction of some form.
During training to become SCUBA certified you remove the regulator from your mouth, hold the purge button, and breathe the air as it passes your mouth. This is a required skill as it will allow you to breathe even if there is some form of equipment failure.
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Re:Not to spoil a good joke, but why not? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes you do. The trick is to position your tongue so that it touches the top of your mouth as you breath in carefully. This stops the water from going straight to the back of your throat and causing a dangerous coughing fit.
You don't breath in too much water, really no worse than the first breath or two from a snorkel you just purged (where you use the same tongue technique to prevent coughing).
You learn this technique so that you can breath from a regulator that is in free flow which can happen when the diaphragm in the regulator fails. Normally you would try to fix the free flow under water (there's a couple of easy tricks you can try) but if that doesn't work you need to know this technique. In addition to sipping air from the regulator you would also theoretically be ascending to the surface as fast as you can safely since you'll quickly run out of air.
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Re:Not to spoil a good joke, but why not? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're right. There's no way a normal, sensitive touch screen would work underwater at pressure (more than 10 feet below the surface).
What would be cool is some sort of underwater keyboard you could use to text each other. While you could theoretically communicate with Morse Code (tapping on your tank) it would be very difficult since it would be based on timing (impossible to hold a tone). Or you could learn sign language which would also be very difficult if you want to have anything like a conversation.
Seriously, any investors out there: if you make something like a waterproof keyboard with a built-in LCD screen (similar to some existing gaming keyboards) that could communicate to other keyboards scuba divers would buy it, probably at significant profit to you.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but what do I do when, after my 19th vente caramel mocchiado, I need to call 911 to have my heart defibrillated and the "cool" people still haven't noticed me conspicuously ignoring my iPhone?
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Re:Awesome. (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget to install the special 1000 ft antenna (the iTenna) on your iPhone since microwaves have a hard time traveling through water.
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Underwater telephony (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Underwater telephony (Score:5, Interesting)
Most people don't realize, a Faraday cage [wikipedia.org] doesn't need to be made of metal, it only needs to be made of a conducting material. Water (especially salt water) is a pretty good conductor. The only RF which can pass transparently through water has wavelengths thousands of km long [wikipedia.org]. So instead most underwater communication is done via cables or acoustically.
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Re:Water is NOT a conductor (Score:5, Funny)
Better take care it's a non-soluble computer then! :-)
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Informative)
Hate to say it but 3G (1900MHz) is microwave.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:4, Informative)
3G isn't tied to any particular frequency. IIRC, AT&T is in the process of moving all of their towers to operate at 850 MHz because the range per mW is better. They've been working on that for some time. That includes 3G coverage.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you kidding, or are you missing the point of a post on purpose, so that you can passionately pursue your favorite off-topic discussion?
It just so happens that I started out as a Physicist, so upon reading the GGP post I found it very amusing that its author did not seem to realize that most of communication devices are on or around the microwave part of the spectrum and would thus have some familiar properties (like water absorption). I do remember that some books tell you microwaves start at 1m, while others at 30cm, but this is totally besides the point. Even if you agree that you are not talking about microwaves, but near-microwave radio waves it is still true that you will find near-microwave properties. You see, in most areas of physics (except quantum) you don't usually find discontinuities.
To go back to your specific problem with my post, I do not consider Wikipedia an authoritative source, and I certainly do not conduct research by reading wikipedia. However, how do you propose I post about a pretty simple fact on slashdot? Do I present my credentials and claim myself an authority? Do I cite (MLS of course) 1st year Physics books from my library? Do I quote a wildly popular web encyclopedia on a simple fact I am sure is correct? What would you do?
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I always wanted to make an iPhone call from 1000 feet deep. Of course, that big air thingy sticking in my mouth is kind of a hinderance, but go technology!
But it won't protect the iPhone from the pressure at that depth...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That is true. The motherboard inside it could crack from pressure, The multi-touchscreen could become inoperable, the screen could warp, and I can 100% guarantee that the speakers would blow out.
Not to mention you would have to prepare yourself for the bends if you ever manage to get that deep ;)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're going that deep, you'll want to take at least 3 iPhones with you.
If you were a tech diver, you'd either find this hilarious or you'd nod your head thinking, "Yes, at least 3, or two iPhones and one of a different brand."
The question is, of course, what they mean by waterproof.
Do they mean it's IP68 rated, submersible at depth for long periods of time, or is is merely IP65, splashable and washable?
Is it just "water resistant"? Have they sent the products out to be tested? Is this just snake oil?
Some of us take "waterproof" very seriously, and want to know exactly what it means. [industrial...osures.com]
Interestingly enough, the two specs that they list, MIL-PRF-38534 [dla.mil] and MIL-PRF-38535 [dla.mil], don't appear to have a damned thing to do with waterproofing. They're about component reliability, and there are several grades under each category.
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Re:Awesome. (Score:5, Informative)
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Not a Spray (Score:5, Informative)
The FAQ for the Golden Shellback [golden-shellback.com] (what they call this stuff) site says:"9. What aspects confuse people most about this process:
a. People get confused and think this is a spray. It is not, the coating needs to be applied in a piece of equipment.
b. People seem to wonder a lot about the contacts and how they are sealed. The contacts are not, the surfaces are sealed. So, water can run in and out.
That right there ought to deal with a lot of the statements and questions that are about to be made in this thread.
But. .. is it a spray? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Not a Spray (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about this logically for a second. If by "surfaces" he means the circuit board itself, then this is called conformal coating and has been around for years. It is also not practical in small consumer electronics. If he means the surface of the device, then this requires sealing the entire device and making it fully waterproof (and not very useful).
By fact, by definition water damages electronics by shorting contacts together. If water is allowed to run in and out of the device, the contacts must be sealed.
I think that faq is a little disingenuous.
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Re:Not a Spray (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Not a Spray (Score:5, Insightful)
The device is not sealed against water (i.e. it's not wrapped in celophane), so water can flow freely throughout the device. At the same time, contacts are not sealed, meaning the water that can flow freely though-out the device can short the contacts that have not been covered (battery, headphone, button, etc...), essentially destroying the device (by burning out components, batteries, etc...).
In otherwords, the coating only keeps water off the surface of a device that by itself isn't prone to water damage to begin with? I.e. all the plastic-coated IC's out there will last just fine under water, as long as you don't apply power to them.
What about moving surfaces, such as the speaker or microphone diaphram? Those devices are sensitive to water (the felt or paper used probably won't stand-up to water), and the high-frequency makes it unlikely that the coating will adhere and stay on.
Can this coating be applied to a thouch-sensitive surface? Can it be applied to the lens of a camera without severely distorting the optics?
I once dropped my phone in a bowl of soup, and the phone told me I had plugged an unrecognized peripheral into the headphone jack. It took a couple hours of carefully disassemling, cleaning, and drying before I got it working again (luckily nothing burned-out), and it sounds like this coating wouldn't have helped (since the contacts within the headphone jack wouldn't have been coated anyway) . Nothing like spending $1000 on absolutely nothing.
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Re:Not a Spray (Score:4, Informative)
Also, according to Gizmodo [gizmodo.com], the coating of your electronic devices will be offered as a service for $50-$75. They also have a nice demo video posted.
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Magically Repeling Water and Not Air (Score:4, Funny)
Son, I would like to see you a part of the Brooklyn Bridge. Not the whole thing, mind you, just a portion as a souvenir. You'll get a certificate that will be filed with a US copyright office documenting its authenticity.
Re:Magically Repeling Water and Not Air (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, water droplets are thicker than water. Go to a mattress store and ask about their mattress covers; buying a waterproof cover is pretty much mandatory for a foam mattress (think *sponge*), and the current level of technology [comforthouse.com] stops water and allergens but not air.
Mattress sellers often have a demo device, basically a closed tube where one end is covered only by their fabric and the tube has a whole bunch of colored mouthwash in it. Air goes through it, but you can't shake the mouthwash out.
This would obviously ding fan efficiency, but fanless laptops already exist...
I would wonder about their claim of "Completely Waterproof" ... does that mean I can drop it in the tub and scrub it clean? There has to be a limit somewhere...
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I am a little skeptical (Score:3, Informative)
In order to waterproof anything electronic, every entry point for water needs to be completely sealed. Does anybody else see the problem here? Yes, that Blackberry might still be powered on. But no, you probably can't depress the keys any more and you almost certainly can't charge it or plug in headphones.
Also, 0.001" thick? I bet it scrapes off on accident rather easily. I also highly doubt that anybody could apply a coating that thin from a hand-held spray can.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Or - rather than sealing off every entry point for water, you take the device apart and seal every surface - which is what they do. It doesn't matter how thin the surface of the coating is - inside the device, unless you make a habit of pulling things apart and scratching them.
Oh - and it's not a spray.
Definitely NOT a spray (Score:4, Informative)
a. People get confused and think this is a spray. It is not, the coating needs to be applied in a piece of equipment.
sooo it's a $$$ conformal coat? (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't cross the streams (Score:5, Funny)
I hear if you dump this stuff in the middle of a swimming pool, the universe ends.
Contract Phones (Score:5, Funny)
Useful for preserving your iPhone for the full length of the 268 million months you're tired to your contract here in the UK.
In other news (Score:5, Interesting)
In other news...
Millions of gadgets have shutdown, or been damaged, due to overheating.
Good one (Score:5, Interesting)
I just don't see how this can work. It has to do one of two things. It either keeps water out, meaning that it covers and seals every opening that leads into the device, or it somehow coats every surface of the device, inside and out, including all circuit boards and components.
So, if it seals the device, how does it know what openings have to be there? Blackberrys (at least my pearl), iPods, etc have power and headphone jacks. So it is only waterproof until I have to plug something into it, rupturing the film? How long will this stuff last before it ruptures on its own due to normal use (like pushing keys on a keyboard). What about battery compartments and other doors on the device? My Blackberry has a door over the MicroSD slot that I open frequently.
The other option is to coat all surfaces inside the device. What about things that have to be left open to the atmosphere to allow humidity to exit, barometric pressure to equalize, etc? I own a Yaesu VX-7R handheld transceiver for amateur radio. This device is fully submersible. One problem they had with the first batch was the waterproofing sealed the inside of the device off from the atmosphere, which would cause a pressure differential against the speaker during barometric changes, which would reduce the amount the diaphragm could travel, resulting in reduced audio output. They fixed it by installing a valve that would equalize pressure. Now that problem occurred in a device designed to be waterproof. Just imagine the problems this would cause with typical gadgets.
Conformal coating?!?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like a conformal coating [wikipedia.org] which is nothing new, you can buy a can of the spray on type at your local electronics store for a few bucks.
I was just researching this same thing. (Score:5, Informative)
Like a month ago we had to make something IP54 Compliant This is part of the IEC 60529 Standard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code [wikipedia.org]
So even though I am the Linux Software GUY, I started to investigate water repellent coatings.
I think they are just using a hydrophobic coating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobic [wikipedia.org]
Hardly worth $1000 a bottle.
Similar to Scotchgard, Rain-X, Aquapel, Jigaloo, RainClear and Magic Sand.
These use Organosilanes like Trimethylsilanol (TMS) (CH3)3SiOH, or perfluorooctanesulfonates (PFOS) C8HF17O3S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFOS [wikipedia.org]
Look at the fluorene chains on this one,
fluorocarbons are the basis for things like Teflon and Fluorinert that don't react with anything and so in Teflon's case make good non-stick surfaces.
Unfortunately Scotchgard has been "reformulated" to make is "safer" PFOS never breaks down, good for electronics, bad for people and the environment. the new Formula (Perfluorobutane sulfonate PFBS ) is designed to break down after a month, so you'd have to keep reapplying.
If you want to research this further see Patents, 3574791, 6676733, and 6994890
Also get on youtube and look up magic sand, some cool videos there.
Prediciton (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But water proof so it will burn under water too.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't a conformal coatings, it's a hydrophobic coating more like Scotch Gard, or Rain-X
Re: (Score:3, Informative)