Slashdot Log In
US Data Centers Wary of Sharing Energy Data With Feds
Posted by
timothy
on Thu May 22, 2008 08:50 AM
from the wouldn't-you-be dept.
from the wouldn't-you-be dept.
1sockchuck writes "The EPA has been seeking at least 100 data center operators willing to share data about their energy usage to help the government develop an Energy Star program for data centers. Thus far, only 54 data centers have signed up, which suggests that few data center operators are eager to tell the government exactly how much energy they are using. The EPA issued a report to Congress last year on data center power usage, and is already developing an Energy Star program to rate servers. Can a program designed to rank the energy efficiency of appliances and computer monitors be a useful tool in addressing the enormous energy consumption of data centers?"
Related Stories
[+]
EPA Sends Data Center Power Study to Congress 127 comments
BDPrime writes "We've all been hearing ad nauseum about power and cooling issues in the data center. Now the EPA has issued a final report to Congress detailing the problem and what might be done to fix it. Most likely what will happen is the EPA will add servers and data centers into its Energy Star program. If you don't feel like reading the entire 133-page report, the 14-page executive summary is a little easier to get through."
[+]
IT: EPA Reaches Goal On Data Center Study 75 comments
1sockchuck writes "After initially struggling in its effort to find data center operators willing to share data about their energy usage, the EPA extended the program by a month and has managed to recruit 215 facilities to participate in its program to help the government develop an Energy Star program for data centers. An EPA official says there are no plans to regulate the data center industry."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
!evil, just no trust (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:!evil, just no trust (Score:4, Insightful)
To some degree, but some possible improvements would require a standardization mandate. For instance, I was reading here a few years ago that Google can make (or get made) hardware to their own specifications, and they save an awful lot of power by using strictly 12V DC to the motherboards, if not the whole boxes. They were advocating for the rest of the industry to do that, but if you run a data center and can't buy the hardware to do that, you're out of luck.
Parent
Few? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems a reasonable fear to me.
Re:Few? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Few? (Score:5, Informative)
They are seeking "at least 100 data centers" to participate.
It DOES NOT SAY that they asked 100. They have put out a general request for datacenters of 1000 square feet or more.
So, out of all the data centers in the US that are over 1000 square feet, only 54 have agreed to participate. That is NOT 54/100 or 54%, it is a drop in the bucket, and it does seem to indicate a reluctance to participate. Although it could just as easily be apathy.
Parent
Re:Few? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Few? (Score:4, Informative)
However, even RTFA-ing twice didn't give you a complete grasp. The article never mentions querying any data centers, just that they want them. They may have called/emailed/mailed to some, or they may have just put it up on the web and hoped.
Additionally, it says that the participants will begin collecting 12 consecutive months of data at the start of the program, "and submit the data by June 1, 2009." That's next year.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
After filing his taxes for the year,
Re:Few? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Transportation energy use is the key (Score:3, Interesting)
But it is a completely different story when it comes to the energy consumed in transportation. There is no viable alternative to gasoline for cars, diesel for trucks and kerosene for the airplanes in the near future. Nothing. And all the crude oil we import goes to transportation.
The politicians are clueless dumb idiots who go through the motions of doing something, on the crazy logic, "we must do something, it is something so we are doing it".
Re:Transportation energy use is the key (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, you're right for now. While we're starting to develop alternative fuels...let's try to get past the ECO-freaks out there, that won't let us drill for our own oil, in our country!! China is drilling in cuban waters just o
Re:Transportation energy use is the key (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a long term strategy.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you subscribe to the theory that oil is a finite resource then you are better off consuming everyone else's before you tap your own.
Might not have anything to share (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Might not have anything to share (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Might not have anything to share (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Might not have anything to share (Score:5, Insightful)
Data centers have to know how much they're using as they have to have sufficient UPS backup to keep their systems running in the event of street power outage.
Groups that maintain these data centers also wind up paying the electric bills, so even if they don't know how much is actually in use at ant single point in time, it's pretty easy to look at a few bills and see what the usage over the past 30 days were.
Parent
Yeah, that would be nice (Score:4, Interesting)
In any case, our data center is part of a larger facility and while it's easy to report on overall power use for the facility, it's mixed in with so much else that it's hard to get a good estimate for power use by the data center alone. As we found out the hard way, the UPS wasn't adequate for downtimes longer than 15 minutes. We've since made a big push to improve the UPS and reduce the number of physical servers in the data center (switching to virtual whenever possible).
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Might I suggest you replace your Engineering Staff as well? If your "operators" didn't notice their generator wasn't online and that you were on batteries, they have no business being anywhere near a data center.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I can see the headlines now.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Plus, data center managers are generally busy enough to avoid yet another stack of forms to fill.
Finally, some DC managers barely know where the power is going. They see the power bill, they seem some automated power meter reading at key points such as power distribution units, but they cannot really tell you how much a machine, or even a rack, is consuming.
The problem with manufacturers' plates is that the power rating on the plates is ridiculous overkill. A rack-moounted server rated for 600 W on
Re: (Score:3)
This way I know exactly how much the rack as a whole is pulling. More importantly, I know that each of the PDU's in the rack is under 50% so that in case a power supply causes a short, I dont loose the entire rack due to a cascading failure. (I've seen it happen w
Which party ran the House and Senate? (Score:3, Insightful)
Those are the people in charge of writing legislation.
There is a healthy impulse to create gridlock in DC. A R president often means a D congress, and vice versa.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Much of the legislation you mention was either inevitable, the work of their predecessors, or had little to no impact.
That said, even though I don't particularly like Bush at all, he has had a small number of bright moments. His most recent Veto of the $288 billion farm bill was absolutely the right thing to do, even thoug
Google is large, but efficient energy user (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Data Centers use a LOT of power! (Score:5, Insightful)
One company was building a fan control system to reduce the power used by cooling fans in the racks. We just had a Slashdot article about being more selective about load distribution and shutting down systems not being utilized for the load.
Data centers use redundant power which is more expensive than line power because UPS system are never 100% efficient.
To top it off, servers put out a LOT of heat. That is two types of load: The power draw of the server and the power draw of the data center cooling system.
Data centers are a prime target for green work, and I bet with a little development work you could EASILY cut the power utilization by 30%. Upgrading and replacing four older machines with two newer machines will cut power usage.
Maybe software efficiency is important again as doing more with less power is greener.
Re: (Score:2)
We just got over the case of what to do with companies who allowed the government to spy on their customers and
Is. new MS one in Northlake IL that .. sub station (Score:2)
There should of looked at a way to get some power off the 70 mph + traffic on I-294 right next to it.
Re: (Score:2)
The part by the data center is wide open.
Total = Sum of the Parts (Score:3, Interesting)
The total energy used in a data center is just the sum of the energy used in the various component parts. The components include the various boxes of electronics, the power supplies, the lighting, and the cooling.
Every data center operator is intensely interested in power consumption. The power and cooling cost real, serious money. Any reduction in that cost goes straight to the bottom line. And, we have finite power and cooling for the building, so if/when the needs of the various boxes exceed those limits, we have to do expensive and disruptive upgrades.
If every component part (computer, network switch, ups, monitor, etc.) were labeled with its power and cooling requirements, data center operators would use that information to select equipment that costs less to operate. In the life cycle of a piece of equipment, the electricity to operate it is a big part of the cost. When we go to buy new equipment, we usually have to choose from among several different units that could fit the purpose. The numbers that determine the operating cost absolutely would be used during that selection process.
A publicity campaign, like "Energy Star" could help us to paint the business "Green". But the numbers are what we really need to make rational business decisions.
The new 32 nanometer processors use less power. (Score:3, Insightful)
That is one of the few world problems that is already being solved. Intel and AMD and others are working on the next generation of processors, that use less power: Intel Says Chips Will Run Faster, Using Less Power [nytimes.com]. Intel is currently delivering processors built on 45 nanometer rules. (At that size, there are perhaps 1000 transistors in the width of a human hair.)
They are working on a 32 nanometer process [wikipedia.org], which has already been demonstrated. The next after that is 22 nanometers [wikipedia.org] and then 16 nanometers [wikipedia.org] and 11 nanometers [wikipedia.org] as the Wikipedia articles say. The smaller conductor width rules use smaller transistors which use less power.
At the same time, they will make processors with wider silicon wafers, 18 inches wide [zdnet.co.uk] rather than the 12 inch wide wafers they use now. The smaller devices and larger wafers mean that there will be many more processors per wafer, making the costs go down.
What these companies are doing is VERY impressive.
The companies have not been as good at proposing new uses for the greater processing power. Data centers need the greater processing power as well as use of smaller amounts of energy, but where else is more processing power needed? Will grandma's octo-core cell phone of the future not just report the weather, but calculate it? Will games use full ray-tracing?
I suspect that the greater processing power is needed, but all the needs haven't yet been discovered. To me, that's a very interesting problem.
"60 degrees Centigrade" (Score:2)
That slowed my reading until I realized that it means "60 degrees Centigrade".
Wary, or Don't Care? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Hi, we'd like you to generously share some internal data and in return we'd like to give you responsibilities and guidelines about how we'll let you give your data to us! Sweet deal, right?"
Presumably they are paying their power bills and thus have some incentive to take "reasonable" steps toward conservation. The government will need to use a carrot or a stick to coax this information from a busy business. I'm surprised simply announcing an interest in the information has netted as many responses as they've gotten.
Goverment intrusion? Spyware? (Score:2, Interesting)
In other news (Score:4, Funny)
Ignored like a credit card application (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not just take the data (Score:2)
Also, it's not clear this is the biggest problem (Score:4, Insightful)
So the EPA likes it because it's tractable. But in many organizations, most IT-related energy use is actually at the edge - factoring in thousands of computers, monitors, printers, edge switches, wireless access points, VOIP phones or digital handsets (a simple analog phone on-hook uses almost no power), etc. Dozens of computers in an open office area adds a significant amount of heat that has to be removed. And as more and more equipment runs uses Ethernet and TCP/IP, you need more and more network switch ports, often delivering PoE. I think a lot of organizations are going to end up pointing fingers at their IT departments because they can identify the cost, and it's easier to blame one group in one location than to face the fact that everyone's incremental usage adds up to significant numbers.
Here's Your Chance (Score:3, Interesting)
OK /.ers, how would YOU categorize or classify data centers to provide a little more sanity|classification|taxonomy to this generic study? For example:
Transaction Processing Center
High Performance Computing Center
Corporate Support Data Center
Web Host or ISP Data Center
Search Engine Data Center
Have at it.
Re:is this really necessary? (Score:4, Insightful)
While setting monitors to sleep mode and powering things off do help, data centers have a lot of power use in a small space. It's clearly in everyone's interest to reduce that power since it results in a lot of savings across the board.
Users can put in more systems per square foot, data center managers can rely on fewer UPS systems and fewer tons of AC, and the resulting lower utility bills is just icing on the cake.
Parent