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Verizon Wireless To Open Network

Posted by kdawson on Tue Nov 27, 2007 02:10 PM
from the bring-your-own dept.
Cellphones Handhelds Wireless Networking Hardware
A number of readers are letting us know about Verizon's plans, announced today, to open their nationwide wireless network to devices that they don't sell. A NYTimes blog posting puts VZW's announcement in industry context. From the press release: "In early 2008, the company will publish the technical standards the development community will need to design products to interface with the Verizon Wireless network. Any device that meets the minimum technical standard will be activated on the network. Devices will be tested and approved in a $20 million state-of-the-art testing lab which received an additional investment this year to gear up for the anticipated new demand. Any application the customer chooses will be allowed on these devices."
+ -
story

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Submission: Verizon Wireless To Introduce 'Any Apps, Any Devic by staticsage (889437)
[+] Mobile: Verizon Embraces Google's Android 148 comments
An anonymous reader writes "BusinessWeek has up an article on Verizon's decision to fully support Android. After passing on the iPhone, the company says they're going to open their network to more devices, move their network to GSM-based radio technology (LTE), and now support Android. 'In an open-access model, though, Verizon Wireless won't offer the same level of customer service as it does for the roughly 50 phone models featured in its handset lineup. Though the company will insist on testing all phones developed to run on its network in the open-access program, Verizon plans only to ensure the wireless connection is working for customers who buy those devices.'"
[+] AT&T Wireless Network Is Open Too 122 comments
narramissic writes "Following last week's much-heralded announcement that Verizon Wireless would open up its network, AT&T is making it known that its wireless network is also open to outside devices. 'By its nature, GSM technology is open,' said Michael Coe, an AT&T spokesman. 'Customers could always use GSM phones not sold by AT&T on our network. We can't guarantee the performance of the device, of course.' AT&T will start to publicize that information through salespeople at AT&T stores, Ralph de la Vega, CEO of the company's wireless business, told USA Today."
[+] Technology: Why US Wireless Isn't Wide Open 70 comments
Geoffery B tips a story in Business Week about why the US cellular carriers' talk about opening up their networks rings hollow. "Even as the wireless industry chants a new gospel about opening mobile phone networks to outside devices and applications, some of the biggest US carriers are quietly blocking new services that would compete with their own. Would-be mobile-service providers, ranging from startups to major banks to eBay's PayPal, have encountered these roadblocks, erected by the likes of AT&T and Verizon Wireless. In some cases, cellular carriers have backed down, but only after inflicting costly delays on the new services."
[+] Mobile: Verizon Reveals Plans For "C Block" Airwaves 54 comments
eldavojohn writes "Now that Verizon has beaten Google in the 'block C' spectrum auction, what are they going to do with it? Well, as of today they've revealed their plans for world domination: they plan to speed up wireless internet connections. It may come as no surprise that they'll also be making this available for other manufacturer's devices. AT&T plans to do the same with their auction winnings, 'AT&T was second to Verizon, winning $6 billion in spectrum licenses, which it also plans to use for high-speed Internet service. But its executives said they didn't bid for the portion subject to the open-access rules. The parts it did land cost AT&T nearly three times as much per unit of spectrum than the portion Verizon bought.'"
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Verizon Wireless To Open Network 50 Comments More /

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  • Google pressure (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It looks like they feel the heat from the big G.

  • No (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jonesy69 (904924) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:12PM (#21495479) Homepage
    No, the iPhone wont work. Lets just clear that up right now.

    • How do you know?

      • Re:No (Score:5, Informative)

        by BecomingLumberg (949374) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:28PM (#21495717)
        Because a GSM phone won't work on a CDMA network.

        • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

          by davester666 (731373) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @04:02PM (#21497123) Journal
          It might just be me, but Verizon could totally kick start this by NOT CRIPPLING THE PHONES THEY SELL. Stop removing features the manufacturers already developed, that end-users might actually want and use, just so they have to download a ringtone from Verizon.com...

          • Re:No (Score:4, Informative)

            by Stonent1 (594886) <stonentNO@SPAMstonent.pointclark.net> on Tuesday November 27 2007, @04:51PM (#21497765) Journal
            Verizon's biggest problem is themselves. They have the best coverage in my experience by far, but everything else about them drives customers away. They disable features on the phones, they customize the OS on the phones to ensure Verizon lock-in. They are the cellular version of the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld. "What you want extra butter for your bread?! NO SOUP FOR YOU!"

            I've never been to Europe so I don't know how Vodafone treats their customers (Vodafone is part owner of Verizon Wireless) so I don't know who's influencing these decisions.

      • Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)

        by timbck2 (233967) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <2kcbmit>> on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:35PM (#21495817) Homepage
        For the iPhone to work on Verizon's network, one of two things has to happen:

        (1) Apple releases a CDMA version of the iPhone

        (2) Verizon changes their network over to GSM nationwide.

        (2) isn't going to happen. (1) might, but not until AT&T's exclusive on the iPhone has expired (2012?)
          • That would require AT&T to be as stupid as Apple was smart. I doubt they'd leave such a gaping hole in an exclusivity agreement.

      • Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)

        by DECS (891519) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:45PM (#21495971) Homepage Journal
        Well Verizon Wireless is almost entirely CDMA2000+ EVDO, while the iPhone uses GSM + EDGE. Unless Verizon rolls out a huge WiFi network, the iPhone won't be able to use Verizon's network. On the other hand, it appears that the move was pushed by the popularity of the iPhone, and the threat of Google. With Verizon locked out of 27% of the US mobile phone market within just a few months of iPhone sales*, it wants/needs as much telephony tied to CDMA2000 as possible as a counterbalance. If Google can buy up and deploy open networks on the old analog TV spectrum within a few years, that would leave Verizon's ~$5 billion new CDMA2000/EVDO networks a vast, unsalable investment that can't be monetized in the subsidy lock model of the 90s.

        *iPhone Grabs 27% of US Smartphone Market [roughlydrafted.com]

        • Re:No (Score:4, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:14PM (#21496397)
          That's 27% of the *smartphone* market, which is not even close to 27% of the mobile phone market. Same article later talks about Apple having 3% marektshare overall, which is not nerely as impressive.

  • This seems very much unlike Verizon (Score:5, Interesting)

    by yincrash (854885) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:12PM (#21495483)
    I'm in shock. Verizon is fairly well known for locking down every phone they offer. What spurred the sudden change of heart? Google Android?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by geekoid (135745)
      Verizon has been becoming more friendly towards there customers over the last few years.
      No, not perfect.
      Any company that lowers the price of their product, even to people in a contract for a higher amount, is pretty good in my book.

      • Re:This seems very much unlike Verizon (Score:5, Insightful)

        by a_nonamiss (743253) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:19PM (#21495587)
        IMHO, that's untrue. My company has used Verizon for years, and they are NOT becoming more friendly towards us. They have better PR people now, but they are just as much on the lookout for "revenue leak" as they've always been. Any company that treats their customer as opponents in some sort of battle for cash is not customer friendly. A good business deal should benefit both parties involved. That's not done by screwing your customers.

        • Re:This seems very much unlike Verizon (Score:5, Funny)

          by 2PAIRofACES (302747) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:55PM (#21496105)

          A good business deal should benefit both parties involved. That's not done by screwing your customers.
          Unless of course you're business is prostitution.

          Holy Crap!!! I just realized I figured out the mythical step 2.

          Step 1. Screw your customers!
          Step 2. Make sure you're a prostitute!
          Step 3. Profit!
          • Shouldn't steps 1 and 2 be switched?

            Hmmm, step 1, accomplished! Now let's see about step 2... ... .... Crap. I'm not a prostitute. No Profit!!! for me after all.

    • Re:This seems very much unlike Verizon (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jtara (133429) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:16PM (#21495541)
      I wonder how much the Amazon Kindle has to do with this? (The Kindle uses EVDO through Sprint to download books, and Amazon picks up the tab for the airtime.)

      It seems to me like this is more oriented toward that type of specialized device, rather than simply a "bring your own phone" option.

      I think Verizon may have realized that there is potentially a huge new market to be tapped, which could go to WiFi or other carriers if they don't provide the ability to use these type of devices on their network.

    • I fully expected to see the "haha" tag on this story.

      I'm shocked to not see it.

    • Re:This seems very much unlike Verizon (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Isao (153092) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:48PM (#21496861)
      What spurred the sudden change of heart?

      Sprint [nwsource.com]. They were the first to lose the class-action lawsuit [sprintlockinglawsuit.com].

  • Unprecedented doesn't begin to describe it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jeffmeden (135043) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:12PM (#21495487) Homepage Journal
    What might Verizon have up their sleeve on this one? They have traditionally been a VERY closed, clandestine network that offers no support for third party anything, and a very aggressive attitude against any efforts to open up (bluetooth lockout is one example). To see them changing their attitude is great, but what is the catch?

    • Re:Unprecedented doesn't begin to describe it (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kackle (910159) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:27PM (#21495695)
      Undoubtedly it was in response to Google's bidding to make an "open spectrum".

      As a person who has explored making a device for use on Ver*izon's network (job related), I tell you that there is a substantial certification fee for such devices; 2 years ago anyway I was told it was roughly a couple of hundred thousand dollars for a design. I wonder whether they are changing that too...

      • Interesting timing on that (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Solandri (704621) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:43PM (#21496787)
        The 700 MHz spectrum auction is supposed to happen before Jan 28, 2008. Verizon's announcement says the technical specifications will be released in "early 2008". Sounds to me like it's to discourage any further mandates by the FCC on the bidding process, and to provide a disincentive for any other bit players thinking of lining up behind Google. "Oh, there's no need to mandate any more openness requirements, we're already going to do it. See, look at this announcement we made. What? Of course we're going to follow through on it. Trust us." It's pretty pathetic that I'm this cynical of Verizon's motives, but that cynicism comes from 3 years experience as a customer.

    • Bait and Switch (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mpapet (761907) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:52PM (#21496067) Homepage
      The tiger can't change its stripes and I don't expect Verizon to either.

      from the summary: "Devices will be tested and approved"

      This is the classic strategy whereby they get bragging rights "It's wide open!!!" and yet mysteriously few, if anything will ever get on because of the details conspicuously absent from the announcement.

      1. How much does testing cost?
      2. How much does approval cost?
      3. Once it's approved, how much is the daily/weekly/monthly tax the device/app builder pays to Verizon?

      This is Extreme Marketing 101. All the hot oil you can dream up and no popcorn.

  • Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shoeler (180797) * on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:14PM (#21495507)
    The most evil of evil cellular companies, the company that replaces perfectly unacceptable, already crippled stock phone operating systems with COMPLETELY UTTERLY crippled operating systems, the same one who if you buy their Motorola RAZR and try to use MOTOROLA's OWN MOBILE PHONE TOOLS, will not allow said use. The same one who requires a USB CHARGER PURCHASED FROM THEM, when any charger will suffice, is now opening their network???!!!

    'Scuse me - that sizzling sound was hell freezing over.
    • is that this has a LOT to do with Google's latest bid on the 700mhz spectrum. If not the reason, this latest action by Google certainly is on the top list of reasons why Verizon probably did this abrupt change. It reminds me of the kind of paradigm Gmail set with its massive space offerings. Suddenly, Hotmail went from a puny 2 megabytes of space to a whopping 200mb+ in a few months. Yahoo, and practically all the major email companies have massive storage because of the shift. My hunch is we are going to b
  • Any application the customer chooses will be allowed on these devices.

    We know Google won't sign any exclusive contracts and we want a piece of their mobile action when the time comes and people bring us the device...

  • Any device? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by a_nonamiss (743253) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:16PM (#21495535)

    Any device that meets the minimum technical standard will be activated on the network
    That's a helluva loophole. It's possible that they just want to protect their network from rogue devices, but I think they could use that clause to deny a lot of devices. Also, the article mentions fees associated with testing. Are those fees geared towards the individual consumer or phone manufacturers? Hundreds or millions of dollars?

    I'd like to be optimistic, but I've (unwillingly) been a Verizon customer for years, and I'd be surprised to see a leopard change its spots...

    • I'd like to be optimistic, but I've (unwillingly) been a Verizon customer for years, and I'd be surprised to see a leopard change its spots...

      Yeah, this is such a non-announcement it's not even funny. Verizon can pretend to be open, when in truth their network uses a proprietary version of CDMA which is not even compatible with any of the GSM hardware out there. So basically, nobody will ever become certified, unless they really want them to be, and the only companies with the money and time to apply are

    • Re:Any device? -Pretty much! (Score:4, Informative)

      by appleguru (1030562) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:45PM (#21495967) Homepage Journal
      No official word on pricing, etc, but as of now anyways it looks like it will be both affordable and not too difficult to meet the "minimum technical standard"

      From ars [arstechnica.com] (Emphasis mine):

      All applications, operating systems, and runtime environments are supported so long as the devices connect properly to Verizon's CDMA network (they can make use of either the company's cellular and PCS bandwidth). The fee for certification of devices will be "surprisingly reasonable," we're told, and the program will be open to anyone. One Verizon exec went so far as to say that if someone builds a device in their basement on a breadboard, Verizon will test it and activate it. Smaller players will definitely be able to get in on the action, something that hasn't previously been possible.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by moosesocks (264553)
        Translation:
        "Nobody wants to build decent phones for our proprietary network, because we've completely destroyed our reputation among the manufacturers by intentionally crippling their phones."

        Now Verizon wants smaller players to get in on the action, and hopefully fix their reputation by coming up with something innovative. I'd imagine that they're not only jealous of the iPhone, but also the amazing GSM phones that Europe's had for quite some time now. Let's face it -- the current selection of CDMA ph

  • This is non-news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by lstellar (1047264) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:17PM (#21495551) Homepage
    ...until Verizon defines "technical standards," fleshes out billing methods and joins the Google alliance (along with Sprint/Nextel and T-Mobile). Until then, this just sounds like evil Verizon trying to up their Karma modifier.

  • Peachy.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by wowbagger (69688) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:17PM (#21495559) Homepage Journal
    Peachy. So I can now get mobile devices by a wide range of vendors, and pay Verizon large amounts of money every month to use those devices. What great altruists are Verizon.

    Verizon charges US$60 a month to access their data service from my computer via my phone.

    I tried calling a modem under my control as a data call - while modem speeds aren't great, they are better than nothing, and I'd gladly spend minutes I wouldn't otherwise use for those rare occasions I want data access but have no WiFi.

    It didn't work.

    I verified that I could call the modem with a normal phone - thus the only variable left was Verizon. I contacted them, and asked them about this. I was VERY CLEAR that I was not trying to access their data service, but rather my own modem.

    Their response? "Oh, you need the US$60 plan to do that." I need to pay them US$60 a month to access my own damn modem.

    Sorry, but being able to access Verizon with other people's devices doesn't really thrill me - especially since every one of those devices will still have to license the CDMA patents form Qualcomm - the Microsoft of the phone industry.

    • Re:Peachy.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by LunaticTippy (872397) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:30PM (#21495757)
      I am not trying to defend Verizon, a company I actively hate, but I'd like to explain why this didn't work.

      Most digital voice service uses lossy compression, like the mp3 format. If you lossily compress the analog modem noise you won't have a stable signal. You would find the same problem with pretty much any cellular service and most VOIP services. Even with lossless compression you would probably have problems and end up with a low data rate.
      • Mod parent up. Between lossy compression, generally crappy audio quality, latency and jitter, todays modems just can't handle it. If they could, they would most likely rate down to a speed so slow, you wouldn't use it anyway. Sorry dude. POTS with a guaranteed spectrum is what you need for modems.
      • Have you actually tried doing it? I'd be interested to find out what actually happens and what connection speeds are possible. I understand the compression issues, but the modem sends pretty clear tones. I guess it depends on the compression. If it compresses with an eye towards human voice ( non exact frequencies, remove anything not noticeable), rather than just doing some blind frequency filtering then I guess it makes sense. Still, I'd expect at least 900 baud ( if you can find a modem that goes that lo
          • Yes it is. I used to work with modems extensively. I had to simulate line noise and what not to test the reliability of our custom x/z modem implementations. I spent a lot of time talking into the the line on a connected phone. I tried connecting many many times, it only happened once that actually connected. Still, one of my proudest accomplishments.

      • Re:Peachy.... (Score:4, Informative)

        by wowbagger (69688) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:41PM (#21495911) Homepage Journal
        No, a data call initiated by Bluetooth DUN does NOT go through the vocoder - rather, it is encapsulated on a 1xRTT channel and transmitted instead of voice data. At the far end the system then takes the data out of the 1xRTT data stream, digitally modulates it into modem signaling, and injects that into the PSTN as standard PCM data.

        This doesn't even tie up a "modem", as all that is happening is that the base equipment is just using a time slot on the PSTN trunk, just like a voice call.

        So, this is UNLIKE using their US$60 service, as this is using a single 1xRTT voice slot (thus burdening the system no more than a voice call), instead of taking up a chunk of the EVDO channels available.

        Moreover, Verizon *used* to offer exactly this sort of service: you could do a normal 1xRTT data call to their system and access the Internet at the relatively slow speeds of 1xRTT for only the cost of the minutes used..

        • Re:technically not possible (Score:4, Informative)

          by m2943 (1140797) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:43PM (#21496783)
          You misunderstood. You're using your phone as a modem: your phone pretends to be a serial modem and uses your data plan. I do that all the time myself.

          What the GP seemed to want was to use his phone to connect to a remote analog modem without using a data plan. It's not unreasonable, but basically, it doesn't work.
  • Is this an attempt to lure iPhone users to their network? Pretty interesting considering they had the first opportunity at being the exclusive network for the iPhone.
    • Nope. iPhone is currently a GSM phone - a fundamentally different and incompatible technology.

  • Ok cool, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by aztektum (170569) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:31PM (#21495769)
    Competition is a good thing

    However...

    While most Verizon Wireless customers prefer the convenience of full service, the company is listening through today's announcement to a small but growing number of customers who want another choice without full service.
    Would they mind defining what "without full service" means? Also, how much more are they going to gouge "bring your own" customers? There's always a catch/hook/rub/premium for have it your way.

    I never understood why the obsession with mobile companies locked phones/formats? Right, lockin so you can only buy their ringtones and use their premium services. But I worked at Sprint for a couple years and at that time they lost their asses on phone swaps. Wouldn't it be easier if they simply sold service, supported open standards and reduced operating costs by not stocking a giant cache of crappy phones they cover under replacement. That has to chew into those premium service profits really fast.

    Offer a solid damn service and let people fight Motorola, Samsung, Sanyo, etc over device issues. It's like expecting the gas station attendant to fix your tranny after he tops you off.

  • I think we can all agree (Score:5, Funny)

    by rehtonAesoohC (954490) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:41PM (#21495913) Journal
    I think we can all agree that this is definitely not Verizon lifting her skirt for us.

    This is more like Verizon bringing us to her front doorstep with promises of gratification, only to slap us and call us names for even implying something might happen.

    The whore.

  • This is what we've had in the UK for years... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DamonHD (794830) <d@hd.org> on Tuesday November 27 2007, @02:42PM (#21495941) Homepage
    ...from most carriers anyway (some like Orange have a fee to get phones on or off their network).

    Ie, if you have a GSM or 3G phone and a SIM card then you can just use it in the UK.

    You'll have to pay the carrier for the SIM and traffic of course, but from any reasonable device you want.

    Rgds

    Damon

    PS. I think most Europeans, used to being behind on technology, are baffled by the US phone 'notwork'...

    • Re:This is what we've had in the UK for years... (Score:4, Informative)

      by RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:34PM (#21496661)

      Ie, if you have a GSM or 3G phone and a SIM card then you can just use it in the UK.


      This is exactly the way it works in the US with AT&T and T-Mobile, the two national GSM carriers in the US. AT&T offers UMTS (GSM 3G) and HSDPA, too (T-Mobile is waiting for the spectrum they purchased to become available).

      PS. I think most Europeans, used to being behind on technology, are baffled by the US phone 'notwork'...


      I'm not sure I'd describe Europe as 'behind on technology', but I would recommend that they learn more about the mobile phone situation in the US before judging. There are five national mobile phone networks, using three different technologies (GSM/UMTS, IDEN, CDMA2000) on four different bands (850/1900/1700/FMR). That's not even considering the hundreds of local and regional players, many of whom have more subscribers than major European carriers.

      This seems typical of the "standard European comment about US mobile phone networks". The US has over 100 million GSM subscribers. You could at least bother to scan the Wikipedia article about Verizon Wireless before talking about how "poor" our mobile service is here. Yes, things are billed differently here (we pay for incoming calls but typically pay less per minute). Some things are better (unlimited EDGE/UMTS/HSDPA for $20/mo, "free" nights/weekends/in-network calling), some things are worse ($0.15 per SMS - send AND receive). But we're not some kind of mobile backwater. Evil providers notwithstanding.

  • CDMA vs GSM (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chiller2 (35804) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:18PM (#21496445) Homepage
    I think the real story here is that CDMA is loosing market share to GSM. The latter is cheaper and globally widespread so Verizon are trying to bolster CDMA device usage.

  • VZW is gearing up for a fight. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Alcoholic Dali (1024937) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:29PM (#21496599)
    Verizon is opening it's network up as a response to the likely chance that Google is going to win the FCC run auction for the highly discussed 700MHz spectrum.

    Google is going to open up that spectrum and forcibly alter how the cell phone industry works in the United States. Verizon, not wanting to be outdone, is sort of pre-empting this by saying they will now open up their own network.

    The cell phone industry in this country is going to get shaken real soon, and it's going to be nothing short of awesome.

  • Should we thank google? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DTemp (1086779) on Tuesday November 27 2007, @03:55PM (#21497017)
    Based on this article over at ars [arstechnica.com], it seems like Google had a big part in this. Pushing for open access rules in the FCC frequency auction (that Verizon originally SUED OVER but relented), and creating the Android platform that Verizon KNEW it had to somehow get a piece of, after viewing AT&T laughing all the way to the bank with the iPhone deal... yeah I think this wouldn't be happening without Google.
    • No, they don't "get it." They want to new spectrum to remain closed (the opposite of what Google is pushing for) so that when the FCC finally does agree to let it remain closed, VZW will nix their open access shortly after.
    • Are they starting to get it, as you suggest, or are they getting something else -- that the FCC might soon ban them from locking down their network & sold hardware?

      T-Mobile, AT&T, and Apple are already getting sued for this...

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