Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Samsung Announces Fastest 64-GB SSD

Posted by kdawson on Wed Nov 07, 2007 02:23 AM
from the want-to-see-it-again dept.
XueCast writes "The new solid-state drive from Samsung can write data at 100 MB/s and read at 120 MB/s. This handily outperforms other SSDs now on the market, which typically feature only 50-80 MB/s read/write rates. Samsung's SSD will come in two form factors, 1.8" and 2.5", and will be running on the SATA II standard. It will only consume 50% of the power of current SSDs. There is no information yet about price."
+ -
story

Related Stories

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by webplay (903555) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @02:40AM (#21264265)
    This drive doesn't outperform MTRON (http://www.mtron.net/english/ [mtron.net]). They announced 120 MB/s read, 90 MB/s write drives and they are shipping 100 MB/s read, 80 MB/s write drives already. The SSD-based Fusion IO card (http://www.fusionio.com/ [fusionio.com]) at the claimed 800 MB/s read and 600 MB/s write speed would beat both them handily. Still, it's good to see a major manufacturer up its speeds.
    • Keep in mind that the FusionIO card is a card, not an SSD. SSD is used to refer to "solid-state drives" (where "solid-state" is slowly becoming synonymous with "flash", but that wasn't always the case...).

      It's pretty clear that the FusionIO card isn't a drive, because there aren't any drive interfaces on the market today that can do 600 MB/s...

      Not that I have anything against FusionIO -- on the contrary, I'd love to have one to play with -- but it's not a drive.

    • I just had to go look at the Fusion IO page and their FAQ and... well, let's just say, does anyone have an URL for marketting-bullshit-bingo to English babelfish please?

      By the half of the page I had developped an extreme allergy to the word "leverage". Two sentences out of three were just saying that the lever some (supposedly awesome) proprietary technology. And more importantly, I was none the wiser. There wasn't a single sentence that even said what it _does_. What makes that technology so awesome? What'
      • Re:What speeds? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by JoelKatz (46478) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @08:01AM (#21265563)
        First, you mean MBps. We're talking bytes, not bits.

        Second, your hard drive can sustain 60MB/s on the fastest part of the drive. Its average is probably much less than that (due to different linear speeds on the inside and outside of the platters).

        That speed drops catastrophically in many real-world scenarios. Small random reads, for example, become dominated by seek time and rotational latency and the high transfer rate doesn't help very much. Small random writes are only slightly better.

        It is really not "only double". It has a real-world speed that is about twice a high-end hard drive's theoretical maximum speed.
      • Re:What speeds? (Score:5, Informative)

        by vadim_t (324782) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @01:00PM (#21269771) Homepage
        That 60 MB/s is almost never attainable in practice.

        SATA drives have a seek latency of about 9ms. This means that the drive can perform 111 seeks per second. Assume a very pessimistic scenario of reading a 2KB cluster. Your drive's performance is now about 200KB/s.

        For an expensive and low capacity SCSI drive, you can get 3.3ms, with about 600KB/s worst case scenario.

        This is assuming you're actually reading data you're interested in. Some of that will involve reading filesystem metadata, which from the user's POV isn't what you're actually interested in. For a directory with lots of small files I imagine you could get maybe half of that performance.

        I've seen SSD latency being quoted to be around 0.01ms. The same calculation above gives 195MB/s, assuming reading takes no extra time (which is false)

        From this you can see that a hard disk is highly limited by seek latency, while a SSD is much more limited by read/write speed.
  • Outperforms? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This handily outperforms other SSDs now on the market,

    Texas Memory Systems http://www.superssd.com/benefits.htm [superssd.com] says can saturate Fibre Channel (GBs/sec) and this one caps out at 100s of MB/s. Perhaps not quite so unequivocally outperforms as this statement makes it out to be.

    How about outperforms other flash based SATA SSDs now on the market???? What is surprising is that more of the SSDs don't max out the SATA pipe.

    yeah they are in different price classes but it isn't like SSDs haven't been

  • by polar red (215081) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @02:47AM (#21264293)
    In what price range are we talking ?
    • by leuk_he (194174) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @03:52AM (#21264543) Homepage
      A small google shows that current generation of 32 GB ssd cost about $599-$1500 [dvnation.com] (depending on speed)

      the new version has double the capacity, do the math yourself.
      • Wouldn't it cost more than double? But a lot depends on WHEN I guess.
      • Yes, but... (Score:4, Funny)

        by amake (673443) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @05:48AM (#21264995) Homepage
        ...what does a large google show?
      • the new version has double the capacity, do the math yourself.

        If you mean to multiply by two, that's not how it works in mooremathics (yes, I just made that up). I've been paying a little attention to the development on memory sticks over 4 doublings from 512MB to 8GB now at the same price point. Every time process tech has evolved to give double capacity, it has doubled and the price stayed the same. So if the last generation cost 600-1500$ for 32GB, I predict this generation will also cost 600-1500$ for 64GB, with 32GBs for half that.

    • http://www.cio-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=130008HEVRPI

      They cost $920 when added to a Dell laptop. The 64-GB SSD is available initially on Dell's XPS M1330 ultraportable notebook Relevant Products/Services, and, later this year, on other models in the XPS line, as well as on Latitude corporate notebooks and Dell mobile workstations. For Alienware, users can choose dual 64-GB SSDs in RAID 1 or RAID 0 configuration, or a 64-GB SSD in combination with a magnetic drive for the Area-51 m9750 high-performance gaming notebook. Prices start over $1,000 for the SSD additions.

      As far as price is concerned. I would rather get this. http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/21/toshibas-320gb-2-5-inch-hard-drive-a-worlds-best-for-laptops/
      And if battery life really concerns you probably getting external battery from electrovaya or batterygeek may eliminate that worries.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 07 2007, @02:48AM (#21264295)
    Savior of the Universe!
  • by colonslashslash (762464) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @02:54AM (#21264315) Homepage
    Cheap, fast, good - pick two.

    "write data at 100 MB/s and read at 120 MB/s."

    Hey cool, that's pretty fast.

    "64GB .... will only consume 50% of the power of current SSDs"

    Good, good.

    "There is no information yet about price."

    .... Ah, shit!
    • Cheap and fast are not good?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Why would you buy a SSD?

      1) Power consumption
      2) Battery life
      3) Power. Consumption.

      I'm looking right now at the data sheet of the latest Seagate SATA hard drive models, that tout a 3 Gb/s data rate (325 MB/s, if you are too lazy to divide by 8), and I haven't even started talking about RAID 0 algorithms yet. Yes, the Samsung SSD is fast - the caveat here is that it is fast when compared with other SSD's. The good news is that this is a relatively new technology, with great potential for improvement IMHO. But
      • by Kjella (173770) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @07:02AM (#21265259) Homepage

        I'm looking right now at the data sheet of the latest Seagate SATA hard drive models, that tout a 3 Gb/s data rate (325 MB/s, if you are too lazy to divide by 8), and I haven't even started talking about RAID 0 algorithms yet. Yes, the Samsung SSD is fast - the caveat here is that it is fast when compared with other SSD's. The good news is that this is a relatively new technology, with great potential for improvement IMHO. But if you don't have a laptop and a need for 4-6 hrs/battery, don't. And even if you do, you'd be probably better off just buying a spare battery.
        LOL, you're looking at the wrong specs. 3GBit/s is the SATA2 interface speed, which by the way also has two bits error correction for every byte so divide by ten for 300MB/s maximum actual throughput. In reality even the fastest WD Raptor 10k SATA drives have a sustained read/write around 80MB/s with minimums around 60MB/s. The MTRON and these Seagate disks are already faster than non-RAID HDDs, in addition to near-instant access time, lower power, lower weight, no noise, shock resistant and in smaller form factors like 1.8" and 2.5" compared to the top-of-the-line 3.5" performance I'm comparing with. Or you can compare to a mobile HDD, but then it certainly gets severely beaten in performance. Oh and RAID0 - take the most unreliable component in the system, make it twice as big, powerhungry, noisy and errorprone...

        In other words, it's more like why are you not buying SSDs:
        1. Price
        2. Price
        3. Price
      • > Seagate SATA hard drive models, that tout a 3 Gb/s data rate (325 MB/s

        Name just one of Seagates drives that can do anywhere NEAR 325MB/s for more than a few milliseconds. I think you must have mis-read the datasheet or something. That simply can't be true. Maybe as burst rate for tiny files which reside entirely in the cache and have previously already been read.
  • Old news (Score:5, Informative)

    by rrohbeck (944847) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @03:04AM (#21264353)
    The announcement was in March [samsung.com], mass production in June [samsung.com] and availability in September [samsung.com].

    I haven't seen a price yet but it's going to be at least close to a grand.
  • Double Dupe? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is this what you call something that has been duped twice?

    Today, plus...

    Oct 28: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/28/1337207 [slashdot.org]
    Oct 25: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/25/149202 [slashdot.org]
  • SSD (Score:5, Funny)

    by Remnant44 (866124) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @03:38AM (#21264483)
    I shall make this SSD my flagship.. and I will call it the Executor.
  • This is how it works (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 07 2007, @04:30AM (#21264707)
    1. Get sixteen, 4 GB SDHC, Class 6 or 8 innards

    2. Strap the lot in parallel, giving 64 GB

    3. 6|8 MB/sec/innard x 16 innards begets 100 MB/sec

    4. Profit !!

    Each 4GB innard is $20 currently, so 16 by 20 is 320. Figure $10 for plumbing. 1% margin for OEM (335), 50% markup by distributor (500), and another 50% by retailer (750), and there you have it $750 for 64 GB.

    Thank you !! Come again !!

    • by SharpFang (651121) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @05:31AM (#21264931) Homepage Journal
      Don't get the innards of the cards. Place slots on your board.
      4 USB controllers, 16 readers, 1 PCI controller, support electronics. the device would cost some $30 to produce. Sell it empty, without the cards.
      And provide a good supply of bulk amount of the cards.

      The user can replace a faulty card without scrapping the whole device. They can add or remove cards depending on the needs. They can replace cards with bigger ones when they want more space. They can physically write-protect chosen partitions of the drive.

      If you don't worry about the speed much, you can use USB hubs instead of the controllers. Then the device plugs into USB.
      • If you're talking about putting SD card readers (or similar) on the motherboard and have the ability for users to replace the cards as they wear out or need increased capacity, I think its an awesome idea.

        I'd love to get a small form factor system. Using SD memory in place of hard drives is a great solution to reducing the space, noise and heat issues. Obviously, I'd like to see speed and size increases and cost decreases. But this is a natural move for the market which will happen over time anyways.
  • First they require a GPU accelaration for Vista(Aero), and now you can use much faster swap file(majority use big gigabyte-size pagefile).Windows is pushing the computer technology further ahead.
  • I think the folks at STEC [stec-inc.com] might be a bit surprised by these claims. Especially considering that their product has been shipping for months already.

    Of course, they might be quite a bit less expensive than the Zeus SSDs, which are quite pricey...

    For some folks, high performance is the requirement and cost is no object. Those folks get their solid-state drives from folks like STEC, Texas Memory Systems [texmemsys.com], or (soon) Violin Scalable Memory [violin-memory.com]. I'd love to be able to afford this stuff. Buy maybe Samsung w

  • $24 for 4GB SD card at newegg.
    *16
    ----
    $384

    Upper limit on the price...
    • Is your $24 card a high speed one?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Speed doesn't matter. With 16 low-speed cards, you can make one really high-speed one. It just takes a smart controller.

        In any event, even if they are slow, the speed limit doesn't come from the flash chips themselves. The speed limit comes from the controller.

        This drive has a controller and some flash chips. The cost of the controller is, maybe, $50 tops. The question is -- how much do the flash chips cost? If you can get 4GB flash cards for $24, that means the flash chips inside there must cost at most $2
  • I think you can only write to flash memory about 1000 times before it "wears out".

    ( Sorry, no thread on flash drives is complete without it... )

    This will be frighteningly expensive. I'd go for a cheaper 16Gb version - big enough for the system partition + swap file.

    • by HateBreeder (656491) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @02:49AM (#21264303)
      Thanks to algorithms that spread written data across the chip, MTBF's of SSD are much higher than those of regular HDDs with similar usuage patterns.

      Furthermore, A simple buffering scheme sounds likely to solve most of the problems you're talking about (Assuming it's constantly many small writes done by the OS... for say, log file keeping or file access-time updating).
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Thanks to algorithms that spread written data across the chip, MTBF's of SSD are much higher than those of regular HDDs with similar usuage patterns.

        MTBF doesn't mean [wikipedia.org] what most people think it means, and is less useful [wikipedia.org] than most people treat it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Does anyone around here know of any numbers backing up the claimed high values for MTBF? I'm not unwilling to accept that the values are indeed high, but I'm looking for something closer to reality than the Wikipedia article arriving at an expected lifetime of 26,600 years.

        The flash memory modules I've encountered have guaranteed a minimum of 100.000 write cycles per data memory byte before failure (NDAs prohibit me from listing the specific devices, but I suspect that this number is nothing out of the

        • by skelly33 (891182) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @12:02PM (#21268809)
          "let's for a moment assume that you're able to max out the drive, writing at the rated speed of 100MB/s. With a page size of 1024 bytes, that's 100.000 page updates every second, so failure will set in after 64,000,000 seconds = 2 years."

          2 years seems pretty impressive to me for beating the virtual snot out of your test subject testing in a completely unrealistic scenario. I would be surprised if my car's engine survived 2 years of running non-stop at 7,000 RPM.
          • Airplane mechanics actually do keep track of flying hours as a maintenance target, but cars lifetimes usually get counted by miles. However, suppose you do look at times - my experience with Chevy engines has been that they last about 120,000 miles, so at an average speed of 30mph, that would be 4000 hours, or about half a year (other cars should of course run longer :-) While 7000 RPM is obviously not a good speed to run the engine at, running it continuously for long periods of time is likely to be much
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          Samsung claims an mtbf of 2,000,000 hours, which is only ~200 years, not 26,000.
          I've seen some specs listing 300,000 program/erase cycles, minimum, which would boost your 2 years to 6, and note that that's their minimum guarantee, the average lifetimes are expected to be considerably (as much as 10x) higher. Presumably these devices just write off a page if it goes bad.
          • by torkus (1133985) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @01:38PM (#21270283)
            More than 10x higher. No one sustains 10MB/sec of writes 24/7 or even averages that on an individual's computer/laptop.

            The only situation you might find to push that is a dedicated high-use AV workstation in a 24/7 media company. Oh, and never mind that workstation would be using arrayed drives for additional speed and redundancy isntead of a single drive...which would of course increase the expeted overall lifetime.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          Where are you getting your numbers? Block erase is 128K or 256K on NAND flash that I've looked at, and erase time is about 1500 usec. The large flash drives measure sequential I/O across multiple chips to get their meaningless performance numbers. Random writes are still painfully slow. The controller keeps an erase count for each block to do load leveling, and when a page gets used too many times it has to swap the whole page with one that isn't used much. The article claims 8GB per chip, which seems
                • by torkus (1133985) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @01:28PM (#21270153)
                  How often do you feed a disk (not in a server) at 100MB/sec for any sustained period of time? Heck, how often do you feed a disk 100MB/sec for one minute much less an hour much less 2 years straight.

                  I suggest two things:

                  1) those so paranoid about drive life return to their handy array of 9.1GB disks in raid 50 and leave the thread

                  2) run perfmon (or the linux equiv.) and look at your overall disk writes for an average day, triple it and then calculate the number of years the drive will last and cut it in half for the hell of it. I'd guess the computer and storge of the drive will be long obsolete before the expected lifetime.

                  If you need to handle writing 100MB/sec of data at a constant rate for weeks/months/years then you don't need a 1.8" SSD. You need a couple pentabyte san. These drives are *perfect* for normal users, power users, heavy users. I'd gladly put one in each of our developer's PCs for doing coding and builds. Our AV guys would love them too.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      distributors are definately in the process of getting io down. So is Linus himself. quote from http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/8/5/171 [lkml.org] : "change relatime updates to be performed once per day." It's not only the livetime of flash memory that benefits from this. also power consumption and noise goes down for hdds. and overall io performance benefits fromsuch improvements,too. About the swap: just keep it big enough so the Kernel can free the ram of some unused data, but not a lot bigger. Twice the size of the ram
    • by JoelKatz (46478) on Wednesday November 07 2007, @08:13AM (#21265653)
      There is no read limit. The write limit is about 100,000 writes (really erasures) per cell.

      These devices will have wear leveling. That means that if a cell is close to running out of erase cycles, the drive will move data that has not changed in a very long time into that cell. A few cells will be kept as spares in case some cells don't last as long as they are predicted to.

      If you do the math, and figure a typical use scenario as a laptop's primary drive, you get that these drives should outlast mechanical hard drives by many years. For example, a 64GB hard drive with an endurance of 100,000 writes should be able to tolerate about 5 million GB of writes before it fails due to wear.

      How long it will take you to run that out depends on your average write rate. But with a reasonable rate (10MB/s) that works out to about 15 years.