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Seagate to Drop IDE Drives by Year End

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Jul 25, 2007 09:47 PM
from the you-are-finished dept.
Data Storage Hardware
ianare writes "Seagate plans to cease manufacturing IDE hard drives by the end of the year and will focus exclusively on SATA-based products. Seagate is the first major hard drive manufacturer to announce such plans, though others will likely follow suit. That's not to say support for the 21-year-old PATA standard is going to vanish overnight; similar to how ISA slots were available long after most of us had ditched our old ISA peripherals."
+ -
story

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[+] Politics: Lenovo Looking to Buy Seagate, May Raise Political Concerns 255 comments
andy1307 writes "According to an article in the New York Times, Lenovo has expressed an interest in buying Seagate. This has raised concerns among American government officials about the risks to national security in transferring high technology to China. From the article: 'In recent years, modern disk drives, used to store vast quantities of digital information securely, have become complex computing systems, complete with hundreds of thousands of lines of software that are used to ensure the integrity of data and to offer data encryption.'"
[+] Seagate Releases Hybrid Hard Drive 218 comments
An anonymous reader writes to tell us Seagate has released a new hybrid hard drive. This new drive adds the speed of a solid state drive to the conventional hard drive. Originally designed for laptops this new drive comes in 80, 120, and 160 GB flavors and features 256MB of flash memory.
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  • Gone missing? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Burdell (228580) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @09:48PM (#19991741)

    Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
    I didn't know Slashdot was stored on IDE drives!

      • Re:What about osdev? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by larry bagina (561269) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:11PM (#19991969) Journal
        As a consumer, I'd rather get rid of the legacy shit (ATA, ps2 keyboards, bios, DOS/Windows :-). But for hardware hacking/os writing, a USB stack, firewire stack, etc are more work (and don't provide the immediate feedback like 100 lines of assembly to read the raw keystrokes).

        You an still have fun with an ARM breadboard kit, though :-)

        • PS2 keyboards (Score:4, Funny)

          by Joce640k (829181) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:11PM (#19992447) Homepage
          You can have my Model M keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead fingers....

          • Re:PS2 keyboards (Score:5, Funny)

            by ozmanjusri (601766) <aussie_bob@hotmail. c o m> on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:26PM (#19992579) Journal
            You can have my Model M keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead fingers....

            Your proposal is acceptable.

            • Re:PS2 keyboards (Score:4, Funny)

              by pomerol (1008421) on Thursday July 26 2007, @08:04AM (#19995303)

              I have a very old Fujitsu keyboard with excellent key layout and feel. It has an AT connector which I now plug into an AT-to-PS2 adapter which plugs into a PS2-to-USB adapter which finally plugs into my new Shuttle XPC that does not have a PS2 port. The absence of legacy ports on the Shuttle was one of the many reasons I bought it.

              I expect that someone will have to pry my old Fujitsu keyboard from my cold dead fingers, and by then the list of adapters will be longer.

              And finally, yes, all my storage devices in the Shuttle use SATA connectors.

            • Re:PS2 keyboards (Score:5, Funny)

              by British (51765) <british1500@gmail.com> on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:43PM (#19992685) Homepage Journal
              The PS/2 ports are to make it so you can accidentally put the mouse in the keyboard port, and the keyboard in the mouse port(wow, great design there guys).

              Having USB ports for the mouse & keyboard would take the fun out of that!

              Huh, the numlock light is on, but nothing's working.

            • Re:PS2 keyboards (Score:5, Informative)

              by afidel (530433) on Thursday July 26 2007, @07:12AM (#19994857)
              The reason to drop PS/2 is that then you can remove the ISA emulation logic from the Southbridge. On most modern designs the PS/2 controller is the only component still using that part of the chip so you can drop it if you drop the ports.

              • Re:PS2 keyboards (Score:4, Interesting)

                by walt-sjc (145127) on Thursday July 26 2007, @05:45AM (#19994427)
                Went down to the local OfficeMax the other day... No SATA optical drives at all. Ditto for Staples. The industry needs a big kick in the nuts to dump old legacy shit. Seagate dumping IDE is a kick in the nuts to OfficeMax and other retailers to wake the fuck up, and start carrying modern accessories. Even buying a DVI cable is a painful process - you are lucky if you have ONE to choose from (there are 8325 flavors of the frickin pinout, with monitors and cards keyed so only ONE cable type works...)

                If you have a legacy IDE system, you can always get IDE to sata converters. Ditto for PS/2 to USB.

                Really old legacy PC's just are not worth the trouble. If you have need for a low-end firewall box (always the stated use for an ancient box) you are better off with an embedded device running openWRT or something similar. A big old Pentium 133 that can't boot off a CD just needs to be retired already.

                I'm just blown away that nearly every modern motherboard still has IDE, parallel, serial, and PS/2 ports. Hard to find ones that don't. I don't want the interrupts wasted! I don't want the board real estate wasted! I want more USB and ESATA ports on the back panel instead... Heck, if you feel you REALLY need the ports on the motherboard, put them on a header that I can extend to a few jacks on a PCI slot bracket, but I would prefer that they not be there at all.

          • Re:What about osdev? (Score:5, Informative)

            by AnyoneEB (574727) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:25PM (#19992575)
            Yes, that is why Apple computers use EFI [wikipedia.org] instead. Linux has had EFI support for a while, and Windows has it in some versions, although that page says Vista currently does not support it. According to that article, some x86 computers already ship with EFI using a BIOS legacy compatibility layer (including Macs for Boot Camp to work), and it links to an Intel page [intel.com] saying that they are in the process of switching over to EFI (once again with BIOS compatibility for now) for their motherboards. I suspect EFI will mostly replace BIOS on new hardware within a few years.

            • Re:What about osdev? (Score:4, Informative)

              by Hal_Porter (817932) on Thursday July 26 2007, @02:31AM (#19993565)
              Why would you change though? Bioses are only used for booting these days

              http://www.missl.cs.umd.edu/winint/index2.html [umd.edu]

              A few equipment query functions and a lot of INT 13 calls to read sectors off the disk. And INT 13 supports 64 bit LBAs which will last essentially forever - drives of upto 8 Zetabytes ( 8*(2^70) bytes ) are possible.

              The original reason for EFI was because Itaniums needed a firmware standard because the Bios is x86 only. Macs use it mostly to stop people booting OSX on normal PC hardware as far as I can see.

              There's a good reason for not using EFI too. EFI graphics cards need to have EFI byte code in Flash along with a normal x86 Bios unless they want to only work on EFI systems. That means more flash memory. Or the installation utility could copy the EFI driver into a FAT formatted EFI system partition, but that means if something corrupts it the card will stop working on a legacy free EFI system.

              Actually, come to think of it, video bioses are a special case. On Windows XP, the driver can use Int 10 to call the video bios.

              Hmm, it seems that this is disabled on Vista -

              http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:URuKNsrXQDAJ:d ownload.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017 -4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/WDDM_BIOS.doc+int+10+windo ws+vista+driver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us [72.14.235.104]

              So it seems like the Bios is used so little and is so futureproof that it doesn't do any harm to keep it. It's also small and simple and can run purely from Rom, whereas EFI needs a special partition which could be corrupted.

                • Re:What about osdev? (Score:5, Interesting)

                  by Xiph1980 (944189) on Thursday July 26 2007, @08:57AM (#19995939)
                  By jonwil (467024) [slashdot.org]

                  The #1 reason I want something like EFI is to eliminate the world of proprietary bootloaders/selection mechanisms for good. Essentially the BIOS would be the one that displays the list of boot options.

                  Unfortunatly no vendor that supports EFI (including all Linux distros I have seen) gets it totally right (where any boot time configuration options are handled through EFI and not through another bootloader)

                  Well, EFI may not be the best way to get away from proprietary stuff. It seems that EFI explicitly vacilitates such behaviour by hardware manufacturers:

                  Interview with Ronald G. Minnich [fosdem.org] (Google cache) [209.85.135.104]

                  What are your thoughts on the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) [wikipedia.org]?

                  I have spoken with the EFI authors at length. They make no secret of the fact that a "core value" of EFI is the preservation of intellectual property related to chipset programming and internal architecture. To put it another way, EFI is dedicated to the preservation of "Hard" hardware (as defined above), and the provision of binary interfaces and subsystems to BIOS vendors and others.
                  It is not really possible to build a full open-source BIOS if EFI is involved. The Tiano [tianocore.org] system, which Intel claims is an open source BIOS, can not be used to build a BIOS unless it is attached to proprietary, binary-only BIOS code provided by a vendor.

                  Another important thing to realize about EFI is that it also contemplates enabling chipset features that will trap certain OS operations to an EFI-based control system running in System Management Mode. In other words, under EFI, there is no guarantee that the OS owns the platform.
                  Accesses to IDE I/O addresses, or certain memory addresses, can be trapped to EFI code and potentially examined and modified or aborted. Many see this as an effort to build a "DRM BIOS".
                  I am not sure what the real intent of this design is, but is is a real concern in secure environments (such as those found in governments, banks, and large search engine companies). A number of vendors and users have told me that they are not sure they can ship an EFI system they are willing to trust in a secure environment.

          • Re:What about osdev? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by cortana (588495) <samNO@SPAMrobots.org.uk> on Thursday July 26 2007, @03:35AM (#19993841) Homepage
            The ghastly PC partitioning system and the horrible kludges that we have to perform to get our PCs to boot are a weight around our necks. But things have been this way for so long that some of us seem to accept it as the natural order of things and question why we should ever strive for something better.

          • Re:What about osdev? (Score:4, Informative)

            by OrangeTide (124937) on Thursday July 26 2007, @02:34AM (#19993579) Homepage Journal
            We call the oldest simplest IDE controller a WD IDE controller, this is why some BSD's have /dev/wd* for the block device name. Western Digital created the original spec for IDE. Some people mention Compaq creating the controllers, I don't know where they get their information from. The simplest IDE controller for ISA can be made from off the shelf components. You pretty much just need a few 74LSxx series components. AND or NAND gates, address decoder and a tristate line driver. Assuming you have a 16-bit ISA bus, for 8-bit ISA you need a couple more chips. I have some of those very old controllers (no DMA support, PIO only!), they are amazingly simple. All the complicated bits are on the harddrive itself, which needs some complicated bits anyways to control the heads and decode the tracks.

  • You'd think they'd know better (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2007, @09:48PM (#19991749)
    Dropping hard drives can really damage them.
    • Lucky the Seagate consumer drives have a five-year warranty ;)
        • shit. I must escape the lt's

          and employees get six. &lt---joke
                                                                ^
                                                                |
                                                            joke
                 

          • well, shit. (Score:5, Funny)

            by thegnu (557446) <thegnuNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:24PM (#19992561) Homepage Journal
            shit. can I get a hand? what the hell are you all doing sitting around letting me make myself look stupid?

            bastards.

            • Re:well, shit. (Score:5, Funny)

              by Short Circuit (52384) <mikemol@gmail.com> on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:59PM (#19992785) Homepage Journal

              can I get a hand?

              0 . ^ .0 0
              0.l l l l0 0
              l l l l 1/^0
              0\ . . . ./0
              0 \ . . ./0
               
              000101010000
              011010101000
              101010101110
              0 10000000010
              001000000100
              There ya go. Pretty easy, once you get through the blasted lameness filter. I'd use lorem ipsum, but I don't Slashdotters would appreciate it much. So far, in the time it's taken me to get this past the lameness filter, your post went from a "2 Funny" to a "3 Funny". I wonder how many other people are attempting to craft a response as well. Let's see if using 'l's will get me past the "Too many junk characters" filter. Yup. Now I see that Slashdot doesn't support <pre>, and <tt> is broken. How about <ecode<? Nope. Gotta find something for those spaces. Ah! How about alternating periods and asterisks for a dark background? Ah! Too many junk characters again. Let's alternate the asterisks with spaces. Nope...Replacing the asterisks with zeros works, but now you can't really see the hand. Ah, heck. Let's make a 0/1 bitmap. That's funny...it added a space in the middle of one of the (short!) lines. Let's append spaces to each line...Didn't work. Ah hell, now your post is at "4 Funny". I'll leave both hands up.

              Long story short, don't bother with the ascii art.

  • Good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Espectr0 (577637) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @09:54PM (#19991785) Journal
    At the least, this will drive the price of SATA drive down. Maybe it will be the same like RAM, where DDR2 is actually cheaper than the old DDR memory standard.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CastrTroy (595695)
      All of us with DDR RAM are pretty bitter about that. I was pretty bitter about a year ago when I tried to buy SDRAM. That stuff is expensive. Still, I can hope that we can go back to the good old days (march 2001???) when SDRAM was $CDN 30 for 512 megs. That was when RAM was the cheapest it has ever been, at least considering how much you could do with 512 MB back then. Now that's that won't even get you the shiny desktop on windows vista.

  • Oh fuck. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by r00t (33219) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @09:55PM (#19991795) Journal
    What will I do when my drive dies again?

    I happen to like my computer. Being fanless and well-built, it is quite reliable except for the damn hard drive.

  • but the motherboards! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doppler00 (534739) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:02PM (#19991857) Homepage Journal
    Poor motherboard manufactures still have to support all the existing legacy devices, even though new devices uses new I/O standards. I always find it amusing to see serial, parallel ports, and floppy connectors on new motherboards. Of course, until DVD drive manufacturers switch to SATA, we'll still see IDE connectors on mothboards. Do the SATA controllers really cost that much more?

    • Re:but the motherboards! (Score:5, Informative)

      by CastrTroy (595695) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:11PM (#19991957) Homepage
      I remember about a year back reading about state of the art motherboards that got rid of all this crap we don't need. I seriously think that more manufacturers should do this. I have no use for a serial, parallel, ps2, floppy connectors, IDE connectors, and all the other legacy junk they insist on putting on motherboards. Every one of those ports takes away 1 (or several in the case of parallel/ide) ports that could be something useful, such as USB, FireWire, SATA, or something that people will actually use. If people want to hook up ancient hardware, let them use PCI adapter cards and port replecators.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by karnal (22275)
        Serial ports are useful. Not so much in the home, but they're still useful.

        Of course, a little USB-Serial dongle solved that issue for me when I had a thinkpad t42 at work a while ago...

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by corychristison (951993)
          I use a Belkin USB-Serial adapter at work nearly every week. In all honestly, I think it's actually gotten faster since we moved to the USB adapter, but maybe that's just me. ;-)
          P.S. - I work for an Advertising firm in my city. We run a few big digital (LED) billboards. One of which is pretty old and requires a serial port. The others are Ethernet.

        • Re:How nice for you. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Bottlemaster (449635) on Thursday July 26 2007, @02:55AM (#19993681)

          But those of us who use computers beyond the confines of gaming and parent's basement often use serial ports and parallel ports and all the other useless legacy junk you so 1337ly disdain.
          Amen. I'm surprised that on Slashdot, a site that supports software freedom to a great extent, there is so much anti-free-hardware sentiment. All this "junk" is still useful, but serial and parallel ports are essential. They were once widely-supported for a good reason, and it wasn't just so that you could hook up a serial mouse and printer to your computer. They are now disappearing, even they have not been replaced by a viable alternative.

      • Re:but the motherboards! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Blkdeath (530393) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:24PM (#19992565) Homepage

        The floppy and ps2 ports are unlikely to die any time soon.

        I recently purchased a couple new Dell computers for my company and couldn't justify paying extra for a floppy drive or hunting the site for a model with PS/2 ports. Instead I got 6 USB2.0 ports.

        ISA ports, serial/paralell ports, PS/2 ports, floppy drives, PATA; it's all old technology. Let it go already. Much like cars gave up on carburetors, houses gave up wood-based heating, etc. so must computers give up the antique technologies we cling to so dearly.

  • PATA won a ribbon cable (Score:5, Funny)

    by leek (579908) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:29PM (#19992113)
    Seagate SATA long time on this.


    They're a bunch of SASies.

    PC Joe won't understand SCSI isn't old enough.

  • ISA... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gringer (252588) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:33PM (#19992143)

    ISA slots were available long after most of us had ditched our old ISA peripherals.
    You Insensitive Clod! I still have an ISA modem. Works much better than those silly winmodems, too.

  • When will old PCI die? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Michael Woodhams (112247) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:45PM (#19992237) Journal
    My motherboard has great big old PCI slots, and tiny little 1xPCI-e slots which are just as capable. PCI-e has taken over for graphics cards, but I've never even seen a 1xPCI-e expansion card. (The motherboard manufacturers don't believe they'll be used either - they put them next to the 16x slot where double-width graphics cards will make them inaccessable.)

    When will old PCI die? Perhaps very small format motherboards and laptops will eventually drive demand for 1xPCI-e cards?

    For that matter - is there any reason for low-end PCI-e graphics cards to be 16x, rather than 8x or even 4x? (They'd still fit in a 16x slot.) I suppose there is no demand - any PCI-e motherboard has a 16x slot, and there isn't anything you'd want to put in it except a GPU. About the only use I can think of is if you wanted one computer to run many low-performance displays - e.g. 8 monitors off four GPUs, each using a 4x slot.

  • IDE graveyard (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Vskye (9079) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:48PM (#19992255)
    This really kinda sucks. I have a computer that needs a few legacy items like IDE, Serial and a parallel port. Why? Well, serial port(s) for my ham radio stuff and a parallel port for my perfectly good HP 6L printer. (might be an unknown issue with the IDE side)
     
    I also like to go back and play with a older OS sometimes which doesn't even see a SATA drive. Guess it's time to stock up on a few IDE drives.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by martijnd (148684)
      Come on, you have to keep those Taiwanese manufacturers busy!

      USB to Serial dongle
      USB to Parallel dongle

      Quite nice actually, one little USB hub on the right spot, and just one tiny cable to the PC.

      And yes, I am buy my laser printers second hand; the LaserJet 6MP is perfectly fine for most
      purposes, and good, low page count second hands go for little money.

  • It's a bad idea (Score:5, Funny)

    by Weaselmancer (533834) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @10:52PM (#19992287)

    Hardware: Seagate to Drop IDE Drives by Year End

    They don't work so well after dropping them. I, for one, will not buy one of these dropped drives at any price.

  • What about USB enclosures? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by baeksu (715271) on Wednesday July 25 2007, @11:46PM (#19992711)

    As far as I've seen, most USB enclosures have IDE harddisks inside them. The same is probably true for firewire as well. So there's still a lot of IDE harddisks on the market, and people do want bigger capacities as well.

    Of course as a private company, Seagate are welcome to do as they please. There's still a few other manufacturers out there.

    For desktop PCs, I think it would be silly to buy IDE-to-SATA converters. At least the ones in Korea cost close to 30 bucks. Most of the IDE harddisks people have are probably around 100-250 GB size, and you can already get that size SATA drives for less than 50 bucks. So the converter is not much of an investment really.

  • Why are so many complaining? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by muffen (321442) on Thursday July 26 2007, @05:12AM (#19994301)
    Don't understand why so many people are complaining about this, I doubt it will make any difference to the majority of people complaining.

    If you want to connect your old IDE drive to a new computer, just buy a converter [addonics.com], if you can afford the computer, I'm sure you can find the extra $20 somewhere.

    If your old IDE drive breaks and you need a new one, get a SATA card [cooldrives.com], it costs less than $30, so if you can afford the new drive, I doubt you will have a problem paying the extra $30.

    If you want to add storage space to your existing computer and all your PCI slots are gone or you don't know how to open a computer, get a USB drive. Since you don't have a SATA connection, I doubt speed is your main concern.

    Finally, if you don't have USB connections, get something like the NSLU2 [linksys.com], you can even run Linux [nslu2-linux.org] on it (I'm running two of those at home with Debian Etch, works really well).

    I'm sure you could come up with some scenario where the IDE drive would be useful and there really isn't any other option, but for the vast majority of people complaining, there are solutions already out there that will solve the problem.

  • Windows has a minor problem with SATA (Score:4, Informative)

    by master_p (608214) on Thursday July 26 2007, @07:35AM (#19995021)
    Windows has a problem with SATA: if the data on the SATA disk exceed 137 GB, the message 'write delayed failed' appears, and the data are lost.

    Searching around to see who's got the same problem on Windows XP + SP4, I found out that it's a common problem for Windows not yet solved by Microsoft.

    IDE disks do not have such a problem. I was thinking of buying IDE disks instead of SATA, but seeing that companies will drop IDE, it's not a very good long term investment.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Enderandrew (866215)
      When I worked for HP, we bought Maxtor, Seagate, Hitachi and WD drives. However, easily 90% of our HDD failures were due to Maxtor drives. Of all the hardware we had from all the vendors, the Maxtor HDDs were the items we replaced the most in warranty. I'd never touch them with a ten-foot pole. I wouldn't use one if it were free. I hate losing data to HDD crashes.

      I generally only buy Seagate or WD.

      • Re:It's sour. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by garett_spencley (193892) on Thursday July 26 2007, @12:51AM (#19993079) Journal
        I'm glad it wasn't forced on the market within a year like the AGP to PCIe seemed to be. Sure, you could get AGP cards but the standard was relegated to second class treatment almost immediately.

        Indeed. I was one of the poor unfortunate clods who went and upgraded his video card during the transition from AGP to PCI-e. I could have gotten a PCI-e version of my card but I only wanted to upgrade my video card, not my mother board etc. so I went AGP. I guess by now (about 2 years later) I got some good use out of it. But I'm the type of guy who likes to upgrade one component at a time as priority demands. Problem now is, in the last 2 - 3 years so many standards have changed so quickly. Much faster than I remember them changing (though that could just be due to aging). My current PC is pretty ok for my needs. But I'm starting to feel obsolete. It's single-core. 2Ghz. 1GB Ram. AGP card. IDE drives. When I upgrade I'm going to have to ditch this PC entirely and go BTX, dual or quad core, SATA, PCI-e etc. It will be an investment of a grand or two when I'm used to just investing a hundred or two here or there to upgrade what needs it.

        I strongly believe that the main reason so many people are stuck with ancient old PCs from the mid - late 90's is price above anything else. Yes computer prices have come down dramatically. You can buy a PC for a couple hundred now. But a lot of people have WAY more important things to spend a couple hundred on. Like bills and food etc. And if their PCs fulfill their basic requirements then there's no reason to go brand spanking new. Right now we seem to be at a point where it's brand new or nothing. Simply because so many standards have been ditched for new ones in such a short period of time (ATX to BTX, 32-bit to 64-bit, single core to multi, IDE to SATA, DDR to DDR2 just off the top of my head).

        Even if most of the standards have existed for some time, it's the manufacturers who, all of a sudden, decided to force the new ones all at once. That's how it feels from a budget conscious consumer.

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