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Linux MPX Multi-touch Alternative to MS Surface

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:02 AM
from the touch-me-there-no-lower-no-a-little-lower dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Gizmodo has published an article (with video) on the Linux-based free alternative to MS Surface along with a quite interesting interview with its creator, Peter Hutterer. "It may not be as fancy-schmancy as Microsoft Surface or Jeff Han's demos but this video of a Linux-based MPX multi-touch table shows that things are moving full speed ahead in the land of the free penguins. We talked with developer Peter Hutterer, who gave us his insight on the project, the iPhone and the ongoing multi-touch craze." He talks about Jeff Han's work, MS Surface and defines the iPhone as "not the first in what it's doing, but definitely a huge impact" in the field."
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  • MultiMeh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by pohl (872) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:05AM (#19876435) Homepage
    Meh. All this multitouch hype is such a fad. Sure, it's great eye candy, but it's totally impractical. Do you really think that shit is going to scale down to the size of a phone!? Oh, wait...
    • Re:MultiMeh... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pasamio (737659) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:11AM (#19876517) Homepage
      To be honest I use the multitouch trackpad on my Macbookpro all of the time. Two finger tap for right click, two finger drag for scrolling with the usual single finger tap for left click and single finger drag for normal drag. Multitouch in a small sense is something that I miss when I go to another laptop because I instinctively two finger tap trackpads to try to right click. No need to scroll in a special part of the track pad, no need to press a special part for left and right click. Just the gesture anywhere on the trackpad. Thats multitouch for me in action and working.
    • Fingers, schmingers. What I want to know, is when those Linux guys will come up with a table that can read Hollerith cards.

      -jcr

    • Multitouch is a lot more than you may at first think. This video [youtube.com] has a really good demonstration of how this can revolutionize the user interface.
      Multitouch is not about dragging around multiple legacy apps at the same time; that is just to keep supporting old software in a seamless matter. What MPX does is it provides an interface which integrates the physical world and a computer far more seamlessly than is possible with a mouse and keyboard.
      That is going to be the big push in IT for some time now, I beli
    • Cool, the hugeasstable [wordpress.com] can now run Linux? Count me in! :)
  • by icepick72 (834363) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:06AM (#19876441)
    It may not be as fancy-schmancy as Microsoft Surface

    I love how the community words stuff, sounds like a child being envious of big brother syndrome. I don't consider Microsoft offerings superior to others, just pointing out the wording and what is sounds like. I hear that kind of stuff way too often. Linux should be comfortable in what it is and not feel the need to compare.

    • by CaptainPatent (1087643) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:20AM (#19876601) Journal

      I love how the community words stuff, sounds like a child being envious of big brother syndrome. I don't consider Microsoft offerings superior to others...
      So would I be correct in assuming you're saying: "Microsoft Shmicrosoft?"
    • Linux should be comfortable in what it is and not feel the need to compare.

      Linux isn't comfortable or not as it's an OS but I disagree with your assertion that the community should be comfortable with the state the OS is in as it's no where near good enough to compete with more polished systems.

      Until the day that Linux is just as easy to use as Windows/OS X and the professional application base is the same, the community will need to continue the push towards greatness. While that day may never come, I can
      • The year 2000 called it wants its slashdot post back..

        Linux isn't comfortable or not as it's an OS

        Linux is NOT an Operating System it is a Kernel. An operating system is Gentoo, Red Hat, etc..

        Until the day that Linux is just as easy to use as Windows/OS X and the professional application base is the same, the community will need to continue the push towards greatness.

        Just because your personal opinion is that Windows or OSX is "better" doesn't make it true. Just as the opposite is true but based on your lac

        • by nagora (177841) on Monday July 16 2007, @11:35AM (#19877531)
          Linux is NOT an Operating System it is a Kernel. An operating system is Gentoo, Red Hat, etc..

          An operating system controls access to the hardware. Linux is an example.

          Gentoo, Red Hat etc are application suites. Bash is not part of an operating system, it is an application, just like Inkscape or Word, or Emacs

          TWW

    • Besides the fact that the "fancy-schmancy" MS Surface looked a lot more functional than this MPX thing. Although the MPX demo was probably in an early stage with a normal PC.
      The MPX vides just didn't seem to track the motion as well as the MS Surface video demonstrated. If "fancy-schmancy" means "more responsive", then give me fancy-schmancy any day.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Besides the fact that the "fancy-schmancy" MS Surface looked a lot more functional than this MPX thing.

        Except the most compelling feature of the Surface, the ability to recognize objects placed on it, was faked for the purpose of demonstration. All the objects placed on the surface had large barcode stickers (called "domioes" [arstechnica.com]) placed on the side facing toward the Surface (and conveniently away from the camera.)

        One also hastens to add that the Surface ran no form of operating system Microsoft sells (or wo

    • He's simply pointing out that Microsoft Surface appears much more polished. I think saying "polished" would have sounded more... professional. But remember Gizmodo's audience is far wider than the Linux community and I don't think people consider them to be so much a part of the Linux community (as in speaking for it).

      Even without comparison to Microsoft there are various things that don't appear polished with this MPX and Linux in general. While I do agree it's often taken too far, I think some level of
    • I read that as

      fancy-schmancy == Ready for the public.

      sorry, but thats the first thought I had...
      • Gizmodo defiantly does not represent the community. Once I saw them call themselves the slashdot for people who actually have touched a woman or something like that.
        I guess that explains their enthusiasm about being able to use more than one finger at a time.
      • by Otter (3800) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:51AM (#19876973) Journal
        Once I saw them call themselves the slashdot for people who actually have touched a woman or something like that.

        Sure, until now. But with vi running on my coffee table, things are going to change around here!

  • by jcr (53032) <jcr@ma c . c om> on Monday July 16 2007, @10:10AM (#19876497) Journal
    ...that someday soon, we can run Linux on a big-ass table? [youtube.com]

    -jcr

  • Ke? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MrBandersnatch (544818) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:14AM (#19876549)
    Im was trying to work out what the big deal is here....there have been multi-touch drivers around for quite a while now and that video on the table looks rather primative compared to what a lot of DIY enthusiasts have running (e.g. overhead projector). Then I realised that the big deal is having multiple input devices for one X session and that the multitouch table is actually getting in the way of that and has the potential to be quite interesting. Anyone up for missile command? :)
    • Right. From the article:

      MPX or Multi-Pointer X is a modification of the X Windows Server that allows multiple input devices to be used at the same time. You only need a normal computer plus any number of keyboards and mice attached to use it. The system lets multiple users to interact with one or various applications simultaneously.

      So this means I can hook up two usb touchpads and do the two-handed flipping thing/finger-paint with both hands at the same time, it seems. To me, this is more interesting than

  • Why not... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by virgil_disgr4ce (909068) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:21AM (#19876623) Homepage
    Build your own multi-touch sensitive display device? It's surprisingly easy:

    http://www.instructables.com/id/EJIXKOEF3ER7VN5/?A LLSTEPS [instructables.com]
  • by ArcherB (796902) * on Monday July 16 2007, @10:23AM (#19876655) Journal
    I felt it would have been better had they used an actual flat-screen touch monitor. The shadows from the projector kinda killed it. Put a decent touch-screen monitor down there and we may have something.

    Also, I don't think it would have taken much to add Beryl for that extra bling that MS can't offer.

    • A traditional touch-screen monitor can only read one touch at a time.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        A traditional touch-screen monitor can only read one touch at a time.

        Then we should break from tradition. [multi-touchscreen.com]

        I'm sure cash is a limiting factor at this point, however.
  • by Penguinisto (415985) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:31AM (#19876719) Journal
    It's kind of neat and all, but aside from the Star Trek TNG factor, what practical uses could anyone really put this to? If it's on a flat horizontal surface, it's sort of wasted space (after all, I can store stuff on a tabletop!) If it's on a vertical surface, then typing becomes a raging PITA (unless typing will become obsolete/replace with something else to express thoughts and work?)

    Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing any widespread practical use for this critter outside of some extreme niches (e.g. kiosk or limited industrial or medical machine interfaces).

    /P

    • Storage? How often do you store things on the surface where you use your computer?
      • Storage? How often do you store things on the surface where you use your computer?

        Easily... I can jam paper items that need attention under the monitor (e.g. bills), the bucket o' caffeine (say, a 20 oz. bottle of soda or cup of coffee) sits somewhere next to the keyboard, blank CDs/DVDs, geek sticks, etc etc etc... clutter items all, but in the current setup, none of it blocks my view of the screen, or hinders my typing on the keyboard.

        Stuff like that.

        /P

    • by Tabernaque86 (1046808) on Monday July 16 2007, @11:24AM (#19877413)
      Any company that has a drafting department should love it. Just develop a CAD program so you can work on a drawing on an actual "page" that could be displayed at 24"x36".

      Also, save the CAD file to a PDF, e-mail it to the client, and he can view the drawing package in full on their table, "Red Line" it/mark it up, save it, and e-mail it back.

      Considering a package can run from ten to a hundred drawings, this potentially saves a ton of paper and other resources.
      • This technology will be soon implemented in such unheard of places as conference rooms, executive boardrooms, public kiosks and convention displays.

        Kiosks I could see - an interactive "you are here" sorta map/info center... the expense might limit how many get used, though I like the idea...

        Board/conference rooms? Good idea. We're still at a place where everyone brings their own PDA's or laptops to show off the latest Powerpoint-built labor-of-love, so that'll have to be factored in. I suppose that some sort of driver could be plugged into to translate not only outbound video, but mouse inputs (then again, don't they have similar rigs already, at

  • by kebes (861706) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:34AM (#19876761) Journal
    You know what makes the video demo in TFA more impressive that the Microsoft Surface demos I've seen?

    This demo uses real applications! It's easy for MS (or whoever) to throw together a video of someone using a neat interface. You see all kinds of slick animations of photo-libraries and data being automatically uploaded to cellphones. The problem is it's probably all fake--the visual equivalent of a mockup. Basically they are showing you the way they *hope* it will look at work. If you look at some of the older Vista demos (before it was released) you'll see alot of mockup video that was never realized into actual code.

    In this demo, they actually start by using Google Earth and scrolling through webpages. The fact that they are using real applications is much more impressive. It makes me believe that they may have something functional in a reasonable amount of time. It also shows that they are thinking about it as an extensible platform that can run generic software, rather than something locked-down that will only run approved code (i.e. just a really big PDA interface, rather than a novel way to interface with existing computer hardware and software).

    • I can finally touch my pr0n.
    • by dave420 (699308) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:59AM (#19877089)
      How is it impressive? The microsoft demo showed a mobile phone being put on the table, it being recognised, and files being sent to/from the device. That's not been done before in such a fashion. Having google maps on a touch-screen isn't new in the slightest. It's not integrating anything new. The MS device had a whole different bunch of applications shown on it. As it can be so much more than just a desktop - a new way of interacting with a computer - showing it acting as a desktop is a bit short-sighted and uninspired :)

      Or do you think MS were somehow incapable of getting google earth to run on a computer? Because that's the only assertion you've made that, if true, would make this offering "more impressive" than that from MS. Or, maybe, these guys didn't have the ability to make new applications, and had no choice but to use some really basic stuff somoene else had made, that's been knocking around for years?
    • Aye.

      1. It shows the power of X.
      2. It works within and "extends" existing frameworks.

      This makes it way cooler than .

      With MPX, you're starting from all of the tools of "legacy" X, and all your "legacy" applications work.

      X development is getting very exciting; and MPX and/or Compiz are just two examples of this.
    • There is variety of tools to record such demos and replay them and no-one would notice the difference. I've done some demos myself because I really didn't want to make live demos everytime some customer visited our website :) We even did one demo where we were supposed to show how files move through IPSEC tunnel and how system is able to roam between LAN/WLAN/Dialup at the same time. Well, everything worked for about minute or so, then the system crashed and had to be rebooted. Our clever marketing droid bl

  • by LoudMusic (199347) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:51AM (#19876965)
    Are these table displays going to be the first need for arbitrary window rotation? We'll be having people sitting on all sides of the display - eventually someone will want a window squared to them, but they won't be squared to the table. Does this cause difficulties with rendering the content?

    Everything should be vector drawn, so theoretically it shouldn't be a problem. But it will require pretty high resolution to keep from getting too fuzzy of text. At least that's how it seems to me.
      • by tourvil (103765) on Monday July 16 2007, @03:08PM (#19880297)

        what if 4 philosophers are sitting around a display and each one needs 2 windows but the display resolution only supports rendering 6 windows at a time?

        what then?

        The one without any windows can pick up his chopsticks and eat.
  • I wish everyone would STOP acting like Microsoft owns multi touch technology. Microsoft has just come out with a WORSE implementation of it then Microsoft and others have done. Cameras? Not a MULTI TOUCH screen?? Yeah if you had actually read the Surface announcement, it actually uses a camera technology versus having a actual multi touch surface liek the iPhone uses.

    On the other hand, I think this has to be a record with a new technology getting Linux support. It used to be you'd have to wait a while
    • MS uses cameras because it does a lot more than just recognise people touching the screen. It can recognise mobile phones being put on it, different materials/objects/etc. That can't be done with a touch-sensitive screen at the moment, but it can be done with cameras. Using cameras and not an integrated solution has meant the MS offering does stuff no other has done yet. The iPhone needs a person's hand to operate, whereas the MS demo can do everything the iPhone's input device can (and, indeed MPX), an
    • Of course not. Everyone on Slashdot knows Apple invented multitouch for the iPhone.
  • by djupedal (584558) on Monday July 16 2007, @10:58AM (#19877083)
    MS 'Surface' is an array of cameras that motion-detect. The cameras are below the surface and they are responsible for all proxy work done between user and the system.

    There is no interaction with the 'surface' other than to prescribe a boundary layer (zone) for the cameras to baseline.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Apparently there is more than one group at Microsoft developing multi-touch capabilities using different techniques.
      Here is one without cameras: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwA3n8AYM0 [youtube.com]
    • by east coast (590680) on Monday July 16 2007, @11:26AM (#19877437)
      While this may be true it's like saying that a mouse is just a couple of wheels that need to be moved on an X-Y axis basis to move a cursor. It's trickery on a certain level, sure. I guess that's why it's called an interface.

      I don't understand all the sour grapes associated with this. While I have no use for the interface it's not to say something worthwhile can't be produced.
  • by edxwelch (600979) on Monday July 16 2007, @11:02AM (#19877131)
    Did anyone notice in that video that he had to click couple times to get some of the widgets to activate?
    Maybe the mouse still has some advantage?
  • by JustNiz (692889) on Monday July 16 2007, @11:53AM (#19877765)
    is that you're hunched over them. If used for extended periods of time, the result is terrible back problems.
  • by streak (23336) on Monday July 16 2007, @01:58PM (#19879533) Journal
    Everyone keeps forgetting that TouchTable, Inc. [touchtable.com] already sells a 'multi-touch' table with a real application (that is actually being used!).
    • Software! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mrchaotica (681592) * on Monday July 16 2007, @10:40AM (#19876841)

      You know, Microsoft didn't invent this multi-touch stuff, and neither did Apple. Its been around as research projects for years. So why is the MS version such a big deal?

      Software!

      See, the real hard part about all this is the fact that you need to come up with a completely new set of UI conventions and implement a completely new set of applications in order to make it a useable product. Until now with MS, nobody's done that.

      From the article, this MPX thing seems to consist of nothing more than a modified X server, running "normal" (i.e., designed for a single cursor) applications. Therefore, it is not nearly as impressive as the MS Surface.

      • From the article, this MPX thing seems to consist of nothing more than a modified X server, running "normal" (i.e., designed for a single cursor) applications. Therefore, it is not nearly as impressive as the MS Surface.

        Forget "impressive" - let's talk "practical". (warning: impending car analogy...)

        One of these two I might or might not see in the indeterminate future; sort of like looking at a "concept car". The other I can likely put to use right now, with only the matter of getting my mitts on the right parts to do it; sort of like looking at a "custom car".

        One of these two uses parts that haven't been invented yet, and may or may not even work. The other uses common parts that anyone can put to use.

        /P

    • Check out NUI Group [nuigroup.com] for a good place to start. There are lots of DIY tutorials for building multitouch tables, and the community there is excellent.

      Microsoft Surface uses Diffused Illumination, which is so far the easiest and most effective way to do these.

      The iPhone uses a capacitive touch screen to do its magic. Slightly less fun since is not an easy do-it-yourself thing and it costs significantly more money the bigger your screen gets...

      Surface and other (big) multitouch tables tend to use "optical touch
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      When will Microsoft do something original?

      funny coming in with an article praising linux for ripping of ms.

      but then again what can we expect from people who also think that ripping off unix is innovation?