Windows-Based iPhone Rival for Business Users

MsManhattan writes "High Tech Computer Corp. (HTC) has unveiled a touch-screen mobile device that offers many of the same features as the iPhone but with an emphasis on business applications vs. entertainment value. The HTC Touch is based on Microsoft's Windows Mobile 6 Professional OS and features a 2.8-inch touch screen offering access to emails, contacts and appointments. But unlike the iPhone, which will feature large internal flash memory capacity for music and movie storage, the HTC Touch offers a microSD drive, and a 1G-byte microSD card comes with the handset."

Pictures!

[jonnythan (79727)]

No pictures or videos?

Anyone else want to bet that the iPhone from Apple blows away this device from High Tech in the asthetics and user interface categories?

I bet they name it something like "S360-X Pearl 1GB."

Re:

[Pojut (1027544)]

soooo.....what you are saying is they will name it something long and unoriginal, as opposed to something tired and old? Gotcha.

Re:Pictures!

[timeOday (582209)]

What is the logic of positioning this new device as an iPhone competitor, anyways? Everybody and their dog makes a smartphone, and it's not as if Apple is an established leader in the market.

Re:Pictures!

[profplump (309017)]

But it's an established leader in marketing and hype, and it's easier to get people to spread your story about an iPhone competitor than it is to get them to spread the same story without the spin.

Re:Pictures!

[ajanp (1083247)]

Random Pics: HTC Touch [geek.com] iPHONE [gearlog.com]

Re:Pictures!

[p0tat03 (985078)]

They STILL don't get it, do they?

Look at that HTC Touch pic. See those two buttons on the bottom? This is proof conclusive, to me anyway, that these guys just don't get it. You have a touch screen for God's sake, why in the world are you still dealing with the "binary choice" UI of old phones? That is absolutely one thing I despise the most about current cell phone UI - they have all adopted the two-button interface. For every menu you are in, there are only ever two choices (unless you want to risk bringing up yet another menu). Sure, this is a limitation due to hardware, so why are we keeping it now that we have the freedom to allow the user to interact in ANY way with the device?

Re:

[CharlieHedlin (102121)]

They are still constrained by requirements to run Windows Mobile...

Re:

[jimstapleton (999106)]

Many things require a "yes/no" answer, and more options, while nice, are silly. Sometimes it's nice to have a quick option that you can do by reflex.

Example:

"Save this phone number?"
[yes][no]

vs.

"Save this phone number?"
[yes][no][go to the apple website][go to the microsoft website][eat a burrito]

Re:Pictures!

[walt-sjc (145127)]

You are right. There is no need for Yes/No on Windows Mobile where the only REAL option is: "Execute text message as code? Yes / Yes"

Re:Pictures!

[zhenya00 (972438)]

Well, for anyone who has actually ever tried to use a touch screen in cold weather, with wet or dirty hands, or while driving, there are a TON of reasons why physical buttons (or at least the option of a stylus) are better than a touch screen. This is one aspect of the iphone that I'm really interested to see shake out in the real world.

Physical buttons much better

[swb (14022)]

I hate touch-sensative surfaces. While they're nice in theory and in some limited situations, they are nearly impossible to use without looking at them, there's no tactile feedback and they often promote mistouching.

Its the one thing (besides the built-in obsolescence) that would totally keep me away from an iPhone. I want my buttons.
 

Re:

[toleraen (831634)]

So what's your solution? How would you design the interface? The 'binary choice' UI is designed that way to conserve precious screen space. After you've added 7 (large) touch screen buttons, where are you going to put the content? Or would the 7 touch screen buttons show up when you activate them? How would you activate them, via a soft key? Many apps make use of the "tap and hold" context menu if you are using the touch screen, so you're not always forced to the two button UI.

The 'common option' | '

Interface, not features

[virgil_disgr4ce (909068)]

I'm going to reiterate what I said yesterday about the iPhone:

It's not features that will make or break a smartphone device as the iPhone comes out, it's the ingenuity of the interface. Just because this has a touch-screen doesn't mean it's going to be a fraction as intuitive or usable for the average person. Windows Mobile is not a platform based on new ideas. --Ted

Re:For working geeks as opposed to gadget crazed

[Reaperducer (871695)]

Call me a hater

OK, you're a hater. Or more accurately, as someone entrenched in a dying platform ("Palm software engineer") you don't understand that the world is moving on without you.

you'd be crazy to buy a phone now that doesn't have 3G.

Why? Most phones in people's hands right now aren't 3G. Most of the United States, where the iPhone will be released later this month doesn't have 3G service. Jobs has already said in front of hundreds of people that the 3G version will be next. It makes sense that it will coincide with the release of the European iPhone which (IIRC) is set for this fall. If 3G is such a necessity for you, wait six months and import one. Problem solved.

if I want to make an mp3 into my ringtones, the 8525 says "go right ahead!" On the Iphone, you have to buy ringtones from ITMS.

You must have gone from Palm engineer to Microsoft engineer, because this is pure FUD. Please provide documentation that shows that iPhone ringtones must be purchased from iTunes. The phone's not out, so you have no idea what it requires. Since the iPhone syncs with iTunes and iTunes handles non-ITMS music just fine, it's only logical to assume that I can use my already-ripped-from-CD-into-iTunes music as a ringtone. You have provided no convincing evidence to the contrary. You're just so used to a culture of vendor lock-in that you don't understand the Mac biosphere. Yes, there is a certain amount of lock-in with the hardware, but Apple is all about pioneering and implementation of standards. It's Verizon and the other legacy telcos that lock people out of the features of their phones (like Bluetooth) in order to extract money from them, not Apple.

Find someone who has a 3G phone, and try using google maps for mobile with a super highspeed connection.

Like the built-in WiFi that the iPhone has? We've all seen Jobs and others demoing Google Maps on the iPhone and it's slick. And the Google integration is specialized for the iPhone. Remember the location thingy? If you haven't watched the demo video, you should.

SSH over 3G is pretty damn good.

I SSH over GPRS every day. It's pretty damn good, too. You don't need broadband for text applications.

I wanted to sync my address book and calendar from my device with my gmail account. Both WM5 and Google are open APIs! So I'm writing it (which means it will suck, but still). Apple does not to seem to want you to be able to do that.

Again, the phone's not out. How do you know it can't? More accurately, how do you know that a month from now someone won't write an iSync plug-in that enables what you want? There are entire companies that specialize in this (The Missing Sync comes to mind). I'm not sure how you "seem" to know what Apple wants. Referencing my above point, Google appears to be interested in the iPhone. Maybe that interest expands beyond maps. I don't know. And neither do you.

Windows Mobile Platform is MUCH more open than the IPhone.

According to the New York Times, Apple is working on a way to allow developers to port their applications to the iPhone. I don't see how Windows is MUCH more open, other than the fact that it's had a five year head start.

When I worked at Palm we worked HARD to court independent developers, who cranked out great apps for the Palm platform.

Good for you. Do you want a cookie? Palm is worse than dead. It's a zombie that doesn't even know it's dead. I loved my original US Robotics Palm 1000. I loved my IIIe. I bought my wife an M100. But Palm stagnated. It's over. Get over it.

when I think of the IPhone I think NO CARRIER.

90% of the world doesn't know what "NO CARRIER" means anymore. We've all gone broadband. Most were born after the modem market shriveled up. You're just demonstrating that you're another Microsoft dinosaur that doesn't get it.

Picture

[pubjames (468013)]

Here you go [geek.com]

It's GSM, you know...

[name_already_taken (540581)]

A better question is if it will work at all in Paris ... or anywhere. The image is an obvious fake for all the reasons you mention and the incompatibility of US / EU phone systems. How about a picture of a real phone?

It's a GSM [wikipedia.org] phone. You know, GSM, the so-called Global System for Mobile communications... the main system in Europe, and on a number of US providers. As long as there is service on one of the GSM bands supported by the phone, it will work. My boss uses his Cingular (GSM) Treo 650 all over th

Re:

[dedazo (737510)]

what would a US citizen be doing with a GSM phone besides travelling? Despit the Global name, they don't work in the US now do they?

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/technology/g sm-gprs.jsp [att.com]

You're welcome.

Actual product link:

[EnglishTim (9662)]

http://www.htctouch.com/ [htctouch.com]

To be honest, you might as well say all Windows Mobile based phones are iPhone rivals. I would prefer to say it's just a competitor in the smartphone space, as iPhone will be when it arrives.

I own an earlier HTC WM5 smartphone model, and I'm guessing that despite having a new swish frontend, it'll still be not quite as nice to use as the iPhone will be. However, the big draw is that being Windows Mobile based, you'll be able to run any software you want on it without having to go through Apple, unlike the iPhone.

iPhone and expandability

[timeOday (582209)]

The summary implies that the iPhone won't have a memory slot for expansion, which would be a huge mistake. In the 1.5 years since I bought my digital camera, 1GB cards have gone from high-end to almost disposable (which is fantastic!), and I now have a cheap 4GB card for my PocketPC which wasn't even available when the PocketPC was manufactured.

Is the iPhone memory not expandable?

C'mon

[u-bend (1095729)]

You know, it's pretty easy to get tired of the direction that some here always try pushing a conversation that has anything to do with Apple. Yes, I like Apple machines. But that's because the accomplish for me what I want them to do, with ease. If they looked (and here's where the style-over-substance folks get it wrong) like a pile of dump, I'd still use them. If the reverse were true (they look as they do, but don't deliver the goods that I need), I'd never have bought my last one just to have a brushed-metal two grand doorstop. And yes, I do use non-mac stuff too. In fact I have a highly useful Linux box at home, that looks, from the outside, well, like a pile of beige dump.

I guess what I'm saying, is that it's not too useful to immediately start making fun of the iPhone with the substance argument, in a discussion that's about a different product. We've seen the picture now, thanks to a previous poster. Let's talk about that--looks pretty nice, wouldn't buy it for personal use, wouldn't buy an iPhone either. /rant

One question

[Aqua_boy17 (962670)]

Is it available in brown?

Talk about life imitating art...

[Basilius (184226)]

...this plays straight into the whole "Hi, I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC" ads. In fact, it fits so well it smells like a joke.

"iPhone is to much fun to get work done. We must have a windows-based 'business' equivalent."

Please. Enough already.

Rival?

[Scrameustache (459504)]

You misspelled "iPhone Killer"...

And since it isn't even out yet, I guess that would be an iPhone Aborter.

HTC : bad software impl on top of good hardware ?

[testman123 (1111753)]

HTC have tremendous hardware. Those guys are brilliant, really.

But, there is a really huge problem with HTC. Those guys have crappy software : bad piggy translation, NDA Legacy APIs, little Java support (almost no JSR supported !), little upgrade program.

Translation is not acceptable, I know it is not blocking stuff. But when you pay high price for some high end phone you expect it to be "high quality" as well and this include your ability to use it in your native language. One example : In french, th

Patent application diagram...

[frank_adrian314159 (469671)]

... is here. [dsokids.com]

Just Wondering

[Nom du Keyboard (633989)]

Can you assemble a grid of them into a coffee table?

QVGA!

[ricklow (124377)]

The screen resolution of the HTC device is only QVGA: 320 x 240. The iPhone is 320 x 480 (half VGA). This is a major difference in usability.

After trying to switch from a Palm TX (320 x 480) to a Windows Mobile QVGA PDA, one thing that stopped me was the beautiful screen on the Palm vs. the QVGA on the WM5 device.

HTC Universal

[Animaether (411575)]

so why didn't you go to the HTC Universal? Full VGA (640x480)

seriously, there's so many non-arguments about the iPhone vs everything else based on individual aspects. the iPhone will kick ass because of the overall package. It will still have its shortcomings (i.e. resolution, no buttons (it's a feature!), etc.) but overall it will be a better package than most everything out there. There'll always be people who need something that the iPhone can't offer, and they will go with something else... or deal

Still no "iPhone killer"

[carpe_noctem (457178)]

From TFA:

"..device designed with one-touch screen.."

Not exactly the same as the iPhone. At least I can finally give microsoft "the finger", literally.

This device isn't multi-touch

[arsheive (609065)]

So how is it going to rival the iPhone? From htc.com: "Building on its rich ten year history of mobile phone innovations, the HTC Touch(TM) represents extensive research and development and the conviction that fingertip control will enable more efficient, natural and intuitive touch screen navigation. The groundbreaking HTC Touch(TM) offers a new and unique way of controlling touch screen-based devices by recognising and responding to the sweep of a finger across the screen. It is even intelligent enough to distinguish between finger and stylus input and then respond accordingly." So it has some nice features allowing the user to use single-touch more effectively. This does not come close to the wow factor and the _crazy_ levels of input freedom provided by a multi-touch interface.

Touch or Multitouch?

[Myopic (18616)]

Is it touch or multitouch? Because those are not nearly the same thing. Multitouch is a much much more complicated (to implement) yet intuitive (to use) interface, and really is the whole reason for the iPhone brouhaha.

One look

[Tom (822)]

One look at a picture is enough to convince me that this is no competitor because they (MS, and the MS Mobile devision) simply still don't get it.

Why? There's the "Start" bar right up on the screen. Aside from the 12-year-old nonsense of the start menu itself, the bar takes up precious screen estate all the time. On a desktop screen, that's a nuissance. On a mobile screen where every pixel counts, it plain out sucks.

More importantly: It's a brilliant indicator for the mindset. MS insists on cluttering the screen with its logo and a couple status icons. Apple builds as if they wanted to actually use the thing.

Re:One look

[SEMW (967629)]

Absolutely. I can't think why someone could possibly want to have battery level, connectivity level, and a clock all available at-a-glance in a consistent place, together with window management tools and a button to bring down a menu of commonly used applications; along with a programming interface that allows applications to hide it and take the full screen if they really need it. Incredibly stupid idea, isn't it. Quite ridiculous.

The perfect hardware crippled by stupid software

[wikinerd (809585)]

HTC makes perfect hardware, but the software it runs sucks big time. Yes, I talk about Windows Mobile. I am an owner of an HTC Universal [wikipedia.org], also known as Qtek 9000, which looks like a small laptop. The first problem I had with the device was that although the TFT screen is capable of displaying 640x480 resolution, Windows Mobile limit the output to 320x240, making the device unsuitable for the original reason I bought it (Slashdot, eh..., Internet surfing over 3G cellular networks, later also Python [awaretek.com] hacking and SSHing [pocketputty.net] while on the road). Thanks to a little Russian hack, OzVga [sciox.org], I have an easy interface to switch between 640x480 and 320x240 anytime I want (ie never, as I only use 640x480). I really can't understand why MS stupidly sets 320x240 as th default resolution, without offering any interface to change it except through the registry. Windows Mobile crash very frequently, are very slow (even on Universal's 520MHz ARM CPU), have the most user-unfriendly and stupid interface I have ever seen since Spectrum's keyboard, and makes my life as a user very difficult. There is a project to port Linux on Universal but it is still in its infancy. I would really describe HTC's Universal as a device combining the perfect hardware with the most unusable software you could ever imagine. HTC really destroys its reputation by cooperating with MS. I am sure HTC could exponentially increase its sales by loading a non-MS OS, preferably open-source like Linux, on all its new PDAs. The best thing HTC can do is to open its hardware platform documentation and let Linux hackers create a Linux port on Universal or future similar device, then sponsor the effort and make Linux the default OS.

Re:Charge!

[nametaken (610866)]

I'll start. My HTC (cingular 8525) is a sliding-keyboard touchscreen phone on WM5. The biggest drawback is that they're monsters, and they're too delicate. For both those reasons, I never put my phone in my pocket, I have to carry it around.

It's so bad, I actually unlocked my old Razr so I'd have something to take out with me at night.

Re:

[CharlieHedlin (102121)]

My 8525 took one heck of a crash to a tile floor and the keypad lifted up and the casing seemed bent. I pulled out at the casing (metal) and the keypad popped back into place and the case returned to its normal shape. The phone still works great (except of the occasional glitch (the phone occasionally won't repaint unless I slide the keypad to change the orientation) that seems like software, but the crash happened when the phone was way too new for me to know...)

Its hard to call this device fragile.

I do

Re:

[Amouth (879122)]

i have the 8525 .. i jsut got a nice belt clip for it.. and i don't have to worry about it..

for what it does it is one of the best devices i have bought.. well worth the money

although it is completly point less without the data plan.. the data plan is what makes it shine

Re:

[espressojim (224775)]

QFT!

I have an 8525 as well, and am pretty happy with it, especially with the data plan.

That said, I'd love to have a bit more resolution than 320x240. 320x480 sounds damn nice.

(As AT&T users, we at least can trade up though, I hope!)

Re:

[chewedtoothpick (564184)]

My T-Mobile MDA has been dropped more times than I can count and stepped on a couple times. Aside from having to replace the cover for the antenna / camera lens, it has only minor scratches. It works as perfect as the day I bought it.

Either you got a bad phone, or you are performing tasks on the order of attempting to make a call from 100 ft under water without a waterproof cover. A friend's 8525 was recently cracked open while he was in Iraq. He replaced the casing and screen and it worked perfect as

Re:

[nietsch (112711)]

Ok, let's see. The logic for the charging process (it features a Lithium-polymer battery) is offloaded to the CPU, so when the inevitable crash comes that leaves the unit hung and the user leaves it in that state, the battery will drain past the safe threshold, ruining its capacity. One bug (and one user mistake)leaves the device unusable...

(this is offcourse pure speculation for those who love that kind of stuff)

Re:

[jwthompson2 (749521)]

I have a HTC 8125 (Cingular branded) that I hate. The problems I have aren't so much with the device, although the hardware obviously plays a part, but the God awful software. Windows Mobile just sucks. Maybe Windows Mobile 6 will be better than version 5 on my handset but I am skeptical. I am planning to buy the iPhone sometime after it hits the market if it meets my needs, which my current HTC/Windows Mobile does not. Namely the things that suck worst are the following:

1. Dialing with the on-screen keypad

Re:

[jwthompson2 (749521)]

I'm the IT guy for the little marketing company I work at and one of the owner's had a 700w, replaced a 650, that had all kinds of problems, replaced three times before I convinced her to insist on getting a new in box 700wx from Verizon. The 700wx has fixed the problem of not ringing on an incoming call and most of the other really annoying problems relating to email.

If you are with Verizon and having issues with the 700w I'd suggest badgering tech support to give you and your coworkers new, not refurbed,

Re:

[M-G (44998)]

They say that the manufacturer didn't provide pricing, but say they're currently on sale in the UK. OK, so how about telling us what the UK price is? Some fine reporting there.

Re:Price ?

[by Anonymous Coward]

It costs 354.95 GBP SIM-free, or nothing with a 12 month / 45 GBP contract. As per www.expansys.com

Re:Buyer beware...

[DWIM (547700)]

This is not informative unless you can link to evidence that shows there is a general problem with the product. Your post alone is an anecdote. If, say, 10% of these phones suffer the same problem as yours did, that would be informative. Otherwise, there is no useful information here.

Re:

[XXeR (447912)]

My MDA (HTC Wizard) has been dropped (HARD once or twice) several times and the worst that happened was one of the tabs for the battery cover snapped off.

Not to mention the awesome support [xda-developers.com] for messing with it.

I LOVE my HTC, but I suppose YMMV.

Re:

[GweeDo (127172)]

I had a HTC 6700 (Alltel) and my screen broke because I took it out of my coat pocket. It hadn't had any pressure applied to it, it just broke for no good reason. Thankfully my insurance with Alltel got me a Treo 700wx where I can enjoy real battery life again too.

Re:

[uradu (10768)]

Whatever, most people consider HTC one of the best OEMs period. I've loved most of the hardware that has come from HTC--most of the faults were with Microsoft's crappy OS. But considering the alternatives so far, what can you do?!

Re:iPhone not out yet...

[svendsen (1029716)]

"prestige"

Your kidding me right? Nobel laureates have prestige. Having an apple product which anyone can buy does not give you prestige. In fact I can't think of any generic tech consumer item which would give you any prestige. You know what I think when I see someone with a windows machine, apple, linux, etc. They have a computer good for them how nice.

Re:iPhone not out yet...

[MatchbooksAndSarcasm (1111757)]

Windows Mobile, because who ever said that only desktop devices should have to be hard-rebooted on a daily basis?