OLPC to Run Windows, Come to the US

An anonymous reader writes "'Yesterday Nicholas Negroponte, former director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab and current head of the nonprofit One Laptop Per Child project, gave analysts and journalists an update on the OLPC project. Two big changes were announced — the $100 OLPC is now the $175 OLPC, and it will be able to run Windows. Even in a market where there are alternatives to using Windows and Office, there's a huge demand for Microsoft software. The OLPC was seen as a way for open source Linux distributions to achieve massive exposure in developing countries, but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux. Details are sketchy but Negroponte did confirm that the XO's developers have been working with Microsoft to get the OLPC up to spec for Windows.' We also find out that the OLPC gets a price hike and will officially come to the US. Could this be tied into Microsoft's new $3 Windows XP Starter and Office 2007 bundle? Now that the OLPC and Intel's Classmate PC can both run Windows, is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"

Bill Gates' criticism

[MarkByers (770551)]

I guess Bill Gates is going to stop criticizing the project now that it supports Windows...

Re:

[goombah99 (560566)]

Bill will love the market share. But he may not like the rampant virus incubator that is created. 30 million unpatched copies of Windows are going to be 15 million more bots. Windows might get a black eye.

Re:

[Zaiff Urgulbunger (591514)]

as long as they don't run Linux, Bill will be happy.

Re:AND Slashdot's Criticism...

[mackyrae (999347)]

I've used one. It is a real computer,though the keyboard's not clicky (it's actually very squishy and very rubber, not even hard keycaps, but it's also probably waterproof which is good) and is extremely tiny (perfect for child fingers). I was a bit confused by the UI, but then I grew up on Windows and then switched go GNOME. It's an entirely different way of thinking about UI and how you interact with it. There are 3 touchpads. One controls the mouse, though I forget what the other two do. I do agree that they need food and water, but I think this is aimed more at areas where there are a lot of not-too-poor-for-school (you can be too poor for free school if the opportunity cost of school is a bunch of money you need to make at a job to feed your family) but still not rich enough to have a computer at home families. There are a lot of families here in the US which don't have computers. They have to use the ones at libraries. That can be a problem with research papers depending on the library. The one at home closes at 6 on Fridays and stays closed on weekends (may have added 10-2 on Saturdays). My school has a 24hr library, which gets used quite a bit. If your area doesn't have a 24hr library though, you have a very limited amount of time during which you can do research considering that you're in school more than half of the hours during which the library is open. For people who have a trailer-park-quality life, the OLPC would be perfect.

Price of Dollar and System upgrades

[Marcion (876801)]

Now the system has 256MB of Ram and a slightly better processor, so yes it could now run Windows in theory. However as they always say, this is an educational project not a laptop project, and they are of course going to go with the stunning Sugar interface.

The dollar has fallen in value quite a lot, next month we'll no doubt see $250 OLPC if it keeps slipping.

Why 256Mb?

[mangu (126918)]

I still have a 1999 vintage Sony Vaio laptop with 64Mb RAM and 333MHz Pentium II running Linux with Kde version 2. It runs fine, at about 1kg weight it's an excellent machine for its original purpose. I also have a 1996 model Acer laptop with 16Mb RAM and a 166MHz Pentium CPU running Slackware with a fvwm GUI.

Unless they can offer those 256Mb of RAM at a lower price than a smaller memory, it's a waste of resources. Better make an effort to lower that price than try to make it run windows. What next, the $999 OLPC to run a $300 Vista Starter Edition?

Re:Why 256Mb?

[Marcion (876801)]

Until last year I had 64MB and 200MHz Pentium I, however I used the command line and Emacs/Lynx/Mutt/Mplayer/Python etc which are all written in C and optimised for that, I was also running Gentoo (compiled by a bigger machine over the network) to squeeze out all the unneeded compile options etc.

The OLPC are using GTK+ and want to be able to run a Mozilla based browser and Java and so on and have a high quality, child-focused, graphical experience, so 128MB is a minimum really, plus there is no graphics chip so you will need a certain extra amount to draw X etc. My new Macbook has a similar setup and does not take more than 80MB, at least on Linux.

Re:Why 256Mb?

[dhasenan (758719)]

The OLPC interface was optimized for the machine. From the screenshots I saw, it didn't take up much space with textures and such; just about everything could be drawn with a minimal amount of SVG, which means you can spend slightly more CPU time and save on RAM.

Also most of the applications are more or less custom, designed or modified to save on RAM and CPU time. Windows XP...could be, but I somehow doubt it would be that easy. If they said it was based on Windows Mobile, I'd be less skeptical.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd (2015)]

OEMs do not pay anything close to the retail price for Windows. The Starter Edition might not cost $50 each, though a system powerful enough to run Vista acceptably should be left to the existing market.

256MB may be the new minimum memory module for mass production. Which is fine, if the marginal cost is low enough. Usually, at the low end, there is a minimum where going below that isn't worth it because you make massive sacrifices to save a tiny percentage of money. There's little point in saving a pal

Re:Why 256Mb?

[evilviper (135110)]

I still have a 1999 vintage Sony Vaio laptop with 64Mb RAM and 333MHz Pentium II running Linux with Kde version 2.

Yes, but you, no doubt, have a swap partition when RAM gets full. If you were running off of a small amount of Flash storage instead, you'd have real problems.

Not to mention that the power requirements for your laptop is more than an order of magnitude higher than the OLPC, and yet you probably don't have a WiFi router card in your notebook.

Re:

[mangu (126918)]

Why doesn't the OLPC run a sister project based purely on old hardware donations from across the world?

This question has been asked and answered in their wiki [laptop.org].

I have been asking this myself. Why not? I once met someone who did exactly this. He organized a group in his church to collect and recycle old computers and give lessons to school dropouts in poor neighborhoods.

However, as the wiki I linked above says, it doesn't scale well. To organize a large scale effort in this way you would need a network of pe

Re:Why 256Mb?

[evilviper (135110)]

Microsoft was the first company to really get the PDA right - the original Palm OS sucked because the interface was annoying,

PalmOS was a panacea compared to the horrific WinCE, which was the competition at the time.

However, Windows was not the first, by a hell of a long shot. Psion was there in the earliest days, with an operating system that Windows Mobile still can't match, to this day. Hell, I would be willing to use Psion's operating system on my desktop if I could... Palm and Microsoft are both still putting out crap that needs a desktop system to accomplish anything... A decade ago, it was even worse. Yet back then on my handheld Psion, I was doing research via the web, typing entire research papers, inserting graphics, spreadsheets, charts/tables/graphs, and printing it out directly to any available printer via IR, etc.

It worked wonderfully, despite the fact that it had over a month of battery life on 2AA batteries (rechargeables in my case), and with a mere 25MHz CPU it was still far more responsive than any of the 200MHz+ systems with WinCE (or later PalmOS machines).

Wow, what a setback

[tomstdenis (446163)]

You know what's next ... the XO's in the real field [e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.

Yeah, MSFT won again!

I wonder how much it cost MSFT to buy them off....

Tom

No BIOS so how are you going to boot windows?

[Marcion (876801)]

>[e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.

Well since the laptop is built with a custom OpenFirmware and a LinuxBios (kernel on the firmware), how are they going to boot Windows exactly?

Don't underestimate Microsoft's warchest

[DrYak (748999)]

Why would you even bother?

Maybe you wouldn't bother. But Microsoft would.
If they have enough money to laugh at EU's face and keep paying their fine instead of opening their standards, they can afford paying for the whole development, then paying for the rights on the BIOS and the drivers, and then bundle them together with the Windows Starter+Office package for a couple of dollars.

They can even pay some people in their R&D department to make sure that the whole thing can actually work (won't be too much

Re:Not News

[QuantumG (50515)]

The news is that Microsoft couldn't get Windows to run on it without getting the OLPC project to increase their hardware specs, and instead of just telling Microsoft to go jump, they compromised and now the laptop is going to cost more.

I said 'the news' there.. I guess I really should say 'the spin'.

Re:Not News

[by Anonymous Coward]

The price has gone up because the memory and drive space have mysteriously doubled from 128MB to 256MB and 512MB to 1GB, respectively.

Re:Not News

[pallmall1 (882819)]

that increase in memory will also be very useful on the linux side.

How useful is the corresponding price increase?

Negroponte has screwed open source by nearly doubling the OLPC price so it can run Windows. He's just back-stabbed all the people who donated a lot of time and effort into putting together a low cost laptop and the free as in speech software to run it.

The OLPC project is now dead, just like every other venture that capitulates with Microsoft.

Re:Not News

[Dhalka226 (559740)]

Wow. Imagine my surprise to find slashdotters who think the most important part of making a semi-affordable laptop for poor children living in third world countries is that it promotes open source.

I don't really buy the "wow, 128 extra megs of RAM and 512MB more hard disk space--THEY'RE SLEEPING WITH MICROSOFT!" nonsense. I could buy the parts for that RETAIL and not pay an extra $75, with the exception that probably nobody bothers to sell that kind of super-low-end hardware anymore.

More likely, they had a goal of $100 laptop and have realized that manufacturing isn't cheap. Costs run up all the time in projects of any scope. They've said all along that they expect the price to come down each year; that's an effect of manufacturing, not a magical "Microsoft tax" that apparently would only apply for one year.

Re:Not News

[shish (588640)]

"wow, 128 extra megs of RAM and 512MB more hard disk space--THEY'RE SLEEPING WITH MICROSOFT!" nonsense

Links to microsoft aren't being drawn simply because they've upped the hardware, but because they've upped the hardware from "enough to give the kids a functional laptop" to "enough to run windows"

Re:Not News

[niiler (716140)]

Wired.com has the update here [wired.com]:

OLPC spokesman Kyle Austin says the wire services got it wrong. In response to a request from Microsoft, the project gave Redmond some early demo models of the XO to play with -- but that was over a year ago. "Their developers are toying with it," Austin told Wired News editor Kevin Poulsen.

OLPC hasn't changed the XO's design to support Windows, and has no formal partnership with Microsoft, he says.

So as often happens, the story is more sensationalist than anything else.

Re:What was said, what you know, where it goes.

[Locutus (9039)]

There's a couple of decades of evidence as to how Microsoft "works" and this person seems to be aware of this. He/she knows that what is said publicly by Microsoft or associates is NOT related to reality since it is ALL PR and marketing-speak. BTW, the OLPC people have already said that they have increased the cost of the OLPC device by adding the SD lot AT MICROSOFTS REQUEST. Therefore, there is already evidence that they are adapting the system for Microsoft without an official partnership with them. The latest moves stating that they've increased the CPU performance, doubled both system memory and storage ALONG WITH stating support for Microsoft Windows makes it easy to put together the picture of what is going on and to fear the end of the OLPC project.

BTW, I agree 100% with the comments stated. Microsoft must see OLPC fail if it is not running Microsoft Windows. Microsoft is not out to save the world or educate the world and their only purpose on this earth is to sell Microsoft software. Negroponte and group are fools if they think Microsoft has ANY OTHER MOTIVE. Like I said, there are a couple of decades of evidence which shows how Microsoft 'works'.

LoB

An offer he couldn't refuse

[BillGatesLoveChild (1046184)]

> but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux.

Not surprising that Negroponte changed his mind. Waking up and finding that chair in his bed must have really rattled him.

Anti competitive move?

[nietsch (112711)]

If MS can charge $3 for their software, but in other venues charge more then 300 for nearly the same, can that be considered as anti-competitive dumping?
Let's just hope that the next US government will break up Bills empire and throw the upper management in jail.

If the price rises $75, that can be considered a $75 windos tax, that is 42%!

The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated

[HerbieStone (64244)]

From here [laptop.org] and here [laptop.org]

True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.

Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat

[pla (258480)]

The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated

I think you missed the bigger implication here...

None of us care if Billy G sells a crippled, OLPC-specific version of XP dirt-cheap, in a desperate bid to promote Windows adoption in the 3rd world. Exposing people to "Starter Edition" would most likely do more to promote Linux use than compete with it.

Given the price and specs change, and Microsoft's announcement of "embracing" the OLPC, some of us can't help but but 2 and 2 together and get 4. A decent Linux system doesn't need 256MB, while XP can barely run its own Explorer interface, much less any additional programs (and I wouldn't even want to try any of the Office apps such as Word) on anything less.



As the biggest issue here, you need to look at this from two perspectives - Ours, as (most likely) middle-class geeks posting from a Western nation viewing this as a really cool (and still exceedingly cheap) compromise between a palmheld and a laptop and cheap enough to consider nearly disposeable; And a third-world school looking at a total budget of $150 per year, trying to decide if they should buy an OLPC or rebuild the school that washed away in the annual spring mudslide.

Cheap toys vs still-expensive tools.



And lest you take that as baseless speculation, "However, Negroponte disclosed that XO's developers have been working with Microsoft Corp. so a version of Windows can run on the machines as well". No, not a "side effect". Boost the specs and boost the price just so Microsoft can play along.

I wonder how much Nick Negroponte's soul cost Mr. Gates...

Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat

[Jeremy_Bee (1064620)]

From here [laptop.org] and here [laptop.org]

True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.

This statement makes no sense, (and the whole adoption of Windows argument Negroponte is using), in the context of the fact that Apple offered to give them a version of OS-X for the thing for FREE at the very beginning.

Apple was turned down on the basis that the laptop was all about the special open sourced based software. Now all of a sudden it's about that, but it's okay if it costs 75% more and runs a cut-rate version of Vista.

On the surface, it seems like Negroponte was certainly co-opted by Microsoft.

Twelve Hundred Children

[Etherwalk (681268)]

> is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"

Twelve hundred children an hour die, largely in said world, and mostly preventable deaths. (Source: UNICEF). That's things like malnutrition, lack of access to clean water, etc...

No offense meant, but can you imagine how much we shouldn't care what kind of operating system these countries are using? There are bigger problems to worry about.

Re:Twelve Hundred Children

[dbIII (701233)]

The one that makes it easier for them to read about how to purify water obviously - so the cheaper one since web browsers work just about everywhere.

Congratulations

[Vexorian (959249)]

I'd like to congratulate this project for becoming a total failure.

I live in a third world country, let me say this: 175 $us is too expensive, that 75% more actually means a reduction in possible buyers by 90% (Although this statistic is totally made up, I am pretty sure this is the case, let's say 85%~95%), as a matter of fact, here it is possible to get a 'real' computer (Pentium I, which is enough for a child's computer, did you know?) for 150$us.

And all of this so it can run windows...

That would be hysterical

[gelfling (6534)]

If MS came out and said there's now a way to run Windows on the cheapest lowest powered laptop you can find. Sorry about that massive investment you wasted.

This is VERY VERY bad news

[Wonderkid (541329)]

The brilliance of the OLPC project is the almost crash proof simplicity of the product. A fresh start. For anyone who has used a (now defunct) Psion Organiser, one of the easiest to use and reliable (albiet unconnected) PDAs ever launched anywhere in the world, a user friendly stable GUI is what empowers people to focus on the task at hand, not the device. Think Toaster, Microwave or iPod. As a Mac user who has just spent two weeks playing with Vista, I wish to state as a software designer that MS products are a hindrance, not a tool for productivity. The majority of the world's greatest structures (Pyramids, Empire State Building, every (old) cathedral and church) ever build were designed and constructed before computers using intuitive tools - paper and pen(cil). Windows, and even OSX is a barrier to true creativity and expression. The unique GUI of the OLPC was a fantastic opportunity to start afresh and empower people who have never touched a computer before. Now all these people will do is send emails and run spreadsheets. How exciting. How original. How inspiring. Not. A sad sad day. I think it's time I got back together with my industrial designer and created an OLPC that meets the original vision of NN at MiT. Watch this space. (www.owonder.com)

Wait a second...

[hhcv (1094593)]

I though Bill Gates wanted to stop the spread of viruses in the third world?

Wow... No OS X?

[toQDuj (806112)]

They might as well have gone with Mac OS X then. I remember Jobs offering to give Mac OS X for free for installation on the OLPC's. At least that'd have been a proper OS.

I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..

B.

Re:Wow... No OS X?

[TeknoHog (164938)]

I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..

In the great Slashdot tradition, I didn't read the article, but I got the impression that the OLPC will still be preinstalled with the tailor-made Linux distro. The ability to install Windows or whatever OS doesn't preclude this.

Why demonize companies...

[arse maker (1058608)]

Slashdot contributers are mostly above average people but this same topic keeps cropping up. No company is a single faceted thing, if someone does something it not for a good or bad purpose soley, such a single sided idea from even an individual is hard to come by. If I want pizza tonight, is it soley a hommage to my love of Italy? Because I like take away food? Because its good value food? Because I feel like oily food? Because I saw Nicole Richie and figured if I can still see my penis when I look down maybe im too thin too? You can argue any number of them and they could all be true, even I wouldnt know the one reason why. Just because Microsoft dominates the market with aggressive tactics doesn't mean its not partially a good will thing. You can hardly say bill gates doesn't give back to the community, I don't know any other billionaire that's so altruistic, how much does jobs donate? If its a move to secure Microsoft's position as the most popular OS world wide, then of course that what they should do, that's what any company would do. Isn't the Linux community looking at the OLPC project as a platform to spread Linux? The one upside to Windows is that it will allow them to run software 90-95% of desktop users can run, having Linux on most the developing worlds computers but not on the developed is almost like a barrier they are trying to remove. But in fairness MS should do more to make a cut down version to run, god knows my VM Ware win2k machine boots so fast it makes me wonder what the hell XP and Vista is loading. Dual booted OLPC would be the best middle ground as choice should be something everyone has. Its what I feel the cornerstone of open source software is.

OLPC just lost my good will

[pembo13 (770295)]

whatever it was worth... I am from a "3rd world country" a, but a price RAM to increase specs... for Windows?? the fact that this is at least a rumor is a bad side for what was once a purely open initiative - I guess I still wish them luck, but I won't be cheering for them anymore.

$175 is TOO much for anything in 3rd world

[unity100 (970058)]

Typing in from a country that is stuck amidst 1st world and 3rd world neighbors, and cant decide which category itself falls into, im saying that $175 price tag for OLPC means labeling it as "DEAD" with colorfully lettered stickers.

even in turkey $175 for such a device is way too much that any family wanting to buy one might ask the supplier whether they will let them pay in installments spreading over 12 or better, 24 months.

Needless to say that in countries that fall in southern and southeastern directions from turkey, which encompass most of the 3rd world countries, $175 will just make olpc a no gamer.

evidently someone sold their soul to some bastards. sad to see, as this olpc thing actually had a chance.

this $175 deal thing is apparently something to enable microsoft to push windows crap on them to third (and second) world so that they will create a userbase and a future upgrade market. if this shit goes through like this,i got to say that, as an it world participant and employee, i will consult anyone and any institution in my area against olpc and ensure i have a hand in its failure. despite i want it to happen very much, better not to happen, than to happen foul.

maybe everything is not over yet. If olpc contributors reassess the situation and pressurize the leaders, sold souls might be reclaimed, if it is not too late.

What does RedHat think about this?

[feranick (858651)]

I'd like to see what RedHat thinks about this. They invest so much in the new interface, and overall OS, with the hope to create something new, and more appropriate for kids, with very innovative features nowhere to be found in conventional PCs (mesh networking, real collaborative activities). Now the OLPC leadership is basically saying: "Sugar is nice, but let's put the old Windows as an alternative, regardless its feasibility in the use in a school environment, after all nobody was ever fired when buying MS products". To me that seems a slap in the faces to RedHat, and ultimately to the kids. This was supposed to be an educational project. As time goes by, it looks more as a business effort to sell dumb computers in developing countries. Nobody talks about content, how to use these things in schools.

Re:

[Varun Soundararajan (744929)]

with puny 256MB Ram I m sure it wont. Vista requires atleast 1 GB of RAM for a "non-sluggish" preformance. Someone joked that you need Google's Infrastructure to run Vista to its full speed.

Obligatory Disclosure: that someone is me :)

Re:

[suv4x4 (956391)]

Anyone know if it will be "Vista Ready"? :)

Right, but your battery power expires while still booting.

Re:Vista ready?

[Timesprout (579035)]

No,you develop a right arm like Arnold Schwarzenegger cranking the generator while its booting.

Technically, no

[DrYak (748999)]

Actually, my Vista boot goes faster than my Ubuntu boot

Several users of both systems (including my own experience) tends to show that Windows comes up with a desktop earlier than Linux. But once there the disk is still trashing for some time. Whereas on Linux, once you're logger, you're logged and everything is ready to run.
The whole stuff is build on windows to give you the impression that it is faster.

Re:

[suv4x4 (956391)]

Make OLPC's CPU non-x86. Windows is portable like... Like... Like... It's not.

Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them).

Don't invent problems where there aren't.

Re:

[the Haldanian (700979)]

Are you really trying to defend Windows portability by saying a defunct OS was once ported to a dead chip?

Re:

[the Hewster (734122)]

Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them). Don't invent problems where there aren't.

The OS might be portable (at great cost) but none of the software that makes Windows a success would be ported (look at your own examples: what software could you get for Alpha and Itanium?) making it pretty useless. On the other hand, most OSS software is ported to pretty much all

Re:Your panties are in a bunch...

[tomstdenis (446163)]

The problem is people like me fear that OLPC was bought off, and that the promise of a really open and accessible laptop for students has died.

You think it's hard to get proper tech support in the 1st world? Try it in a field school somewhere 500 miles away from the nearest large city. Running windows as opposed to the hardened linux they were developing is just inviting every random malware and virus to hop a ride through their laptops rendering them useless.

Also a lot of the innovative features like the grouping and shared sessions [as well as tailor made games/activities] probably won't be ported [or well] to Windows, leaving the kids with a really large lack of useful software.

Tom

Re:Windows is good for education

[Hennell (1005107)]

Windows is designed to cater for the computer illiterate.

How much is this actually true? Every OS needs some getting used to and if you've never used a computer before, using Linux shouldn't be any harder then using windows.
---
If a picture is worth a thousand words my dissertation is going to be a dodle
---

Re:Windows is good for education

[by Anonymous Coward]

Even worse, windows is almost designed to preserve user's computer illiteracy - you don't learn how to use a computer, you rote-learn how to do some tasks using a computer running windows. The OLPC linux OS was designed to encourage exploration of what was underneath, all deliberately written in a simple programming language. The *reason* we have programmers today is because the early 8- and 16- bit platforms they grew up on encouraged exploration. My first computers came with complete schematics and a programming manual.

Re:Windows is good for education

[IchBinEinPenguin (589252)]

I spotted a typo in you post:
... designed by the computer illiterate ...
Windows is designed by lawyers, marketing analysts and people who watch other people using Macs.

lower entry barriers
You're joking, right? Microsoft is nothing but barriers to entry. $$$ for this, $$$ for that, $$$ for the other. And then more $$$ to keep it all safe. And then the same again next year.