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Intel Set To Demo PRAM
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Apr 17, 2007 04:17 AM
from the flashier dept.
from the flashier dept.
xavatarx writes "Intel's chief technology officer Justin Rattner is set to give the first public demonstration of the company's PRAM (phase-change RAM) technology at this week's Intel Developer Forum conference. 'Intel and other companies are counting on PRAM to replace both NOR and NAND flash memory to generate the demand required to produce the new memory chips in volume, and drive down costs,' the article says."
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Intel to Sample Flash-killer PRAM This Year 78 comments
Station writes "Intel's new phase-change memory technology (PRAM) will begin sampling this year. Samsung, IBM, and Hitachi are all working on phase-change memory as a successor to flash as it has a lower (~20ns) read latency than flash (50-90ns). 'Intel says they plan to ship the first PRAM modules as a straight-ahead NOR flash replacement so that they can work the kinks out of the design before trying to move it up the memory hierarchy. The company claims a much higher number of read-write cycles (100 million) than flash, as well as a potential 10 years' worth of data retention. NOR flash is typically used as program storage memory for mobile devices like cell phones, while more durable but slower NAND flash is used for mass storage in devices like the iPod nano.'"
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Quite the demo (Score:5, Funny)
Hope it is better than Intel's other memory push (Score:3, Insightful)
AMD set to reply (Score:3, Funny)
PRAM is new? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:PRAM is new? (Score:5, Informative)
Apple PRAM == Parameter RAM
Intel PRAM == Phase-change RAM
While:
Parameter RAM == Any kind of conventional (probably non volatile) RAM
Phase-change RAM == New kind of non volatile RAM using a new phase change technology
Thus:
Apple PRAM != Phase-change RAM
QUED.
Parent
Question on how PRAM works and is manufactured (Score:5, Interesting)
How are Intel and others managing this chalcogenide glass manufacturing in their usual silicon DRAM process? Is this glass fused/bonded to silicon or something? Or is it an alloy.. and if so, is it a non-silicon alloy (silicon is a non-metal)?
I tried the wikipedia entry on this subject (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_memory
a. How it really works in an electronic circuit and in a microprocessor (how do you control the heating/cooling at the chip level so that phase change occurs)?
b. How it is supposed to be volume manufactured? Would they require a new fab entirely to manufacture PRAM (if they do decide to commercialize this technology), or can an existing fab be retro-fitted to support this manufacturing process?
Appreciate any insights on this subject. At a high level, this does sound like a very exciting new technology.
Parent
Re:Question on how PRAM works and is manufactured (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.ovonyx.com/tech_html.html [ovonyx.com]
It sounds like the chalcogenide is deposited as a thin film. Mind you they talk about transistors, so it must be an extra processing stage on a normal chip.
This seems to confirm it
http://www.eetimes.com/in_focus/silicon_engineeri
Chalcogenide RAM is nonvolatile, boasts access speed comparable to that of DRAM and possesses advantages in scalability, high sensing margin, low energy consumption and endurance to cycling. The structure and processing of chalcogenide memory are much simpler than in other next-generation memories such as MRAM and ferroelectric RAM. In a chalcogenide memory cell, the data is stored in a flat chalcogenide layer that can be deposited near the end of the CMOS interconnect process. Therefore, disturbance of the CMOS process is minimal, making it ideal for systems-on-chip.
So I guess they add an extra step to the end of the process and deposit a layer of chalcogenide glass.
These things sound really cool BTW, they're writable at a byte granularity in tens of nanoseconds just like a regular SDRAM, but they are non volatile. It looks like they can flip bits individually either way too.
Whereas flash memory is much slower - tens of microseconds per byte, and you need to erase 16K-128Kbyte block at a time. And PRAM is supposed to be denser and allow unlimited erase cycles.
Plus Intel is backing it so it's not like it will fail because the vendor can't afford to scale the production process to make chips with a high capacity.
Parent
Re:Question on how PRAM works and is manufactured (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
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Eh? We just want to beat out hard disks because they are mechanical, slow spinning up, slow reading, slow seeking, noisy, energy hogging, big, untrustworthy SOB's. Most of us couldn't care less on the number of write cycles, as long as the filesystem and OS portions of it can be written over many times within the life time of the equipment
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/ 10122.pdf [st.com]
and this one
http://newslab.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~johnson/public_fil es/R-FLO436_Chang.pdf [ntu.edu.tw]
Because I wouldn't mind getting a flash drive. I'm just a bit skeptical.
Well it wouldn't surprise me if some flash disks get this disasterously wrong to be honest. Some of the lifetimes on page 6 of the Chang paper look a bit low for comfort - around 4 years for NFTL.
Re:Question on how to pronounce that word (Score:3)
chal-ko-gen'-ide ?
chal-cog'-en-ide ?
sh-alko'-gen-ide ?
fawstuh-grhants-dhaling ?
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Re:Question on how to pronounce that word (Score:4, Funny)
Chris Mattern
Parent
Re:Question on how PRAM works and is manufactured (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Question on how PRAM works and is manufactured (Score:5, Funny)
What!? Don't tell me you're scared of fringe effects on leakage current, non-linear C-V models, and photo mask correction factors! Sheesh! Nerds these days...
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:PRAM is new? (Score:4, Funny)
I suggest you add him to a list of humans that use humour, and ensure your emotion emulator is powered up before replying to posts by humans on that list in future. It is very important that the humans here do not realise that we are not like them.
Parent
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Re:PRAM is new? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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QUED = ?
Phase Change? (Score:2)
Re:PRAM is new? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Obligatory Monty Python... (Score:1, Funny)
On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. (It is a silly place.)
Again? (Score:5, Interesting)
BTW, is there anywhere a concise table comparing the characteristics of different RAM technologies?
Re:Again? (Score:5, Informative)
The only thing not mentioned is cost, but if it scales (Intel thinks it does), and the special glass just adds only one step to manufacturing (which the original developer claims), it doesn't look like there are too many roadblocks to success. Now, claiming it will replace DRAM may be a little premature, however there's a good hope they can replace flash at least.
Parent
Re:Again? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
How? Intel is a supermassive chip company w/FABS. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are 2 ways they can win assuming they have the capacity for massive scale manufacturing, which they seem to.
1 - They can undercut the cost of NOR/NAND chips in the market place.
2 - they can sell at price parity with NOR/NAND but solve the serious technical problems with both designs. TBH neither is terribly nice to interface to and both are very slow compared to DRAM. Beating the technical problems are explained to PHB's as Instant Boot (suspend to RAM - except its PRAM, not battery backed DRAM). Quietness. The G shocks required to actually damage the stuff as compared to a spinning HD. etc etc...
Actually there's a lot of reasons to go for it. Not least of all that HD sizes on consumer products (cheapo laptops etc) seem to be stuck at 80 gig. It's cheap and most (not all - I've a terabyte+ of storage and still run out) users will never fill it anyway. Instant boot is a real serious seller - 2 minutes of boot time feels a lot longer as you can't do anything for 2 minutes.
But, personally, I think Intel's massive production capability and their endless search to find something to do with all those billions of transistors is where they'll "win".
Parent
Re:How? Intel is a supermassive chip company w/FAB (Score:2)
AFAIK Intel has spun their flash FABs off under their memory devision, and only produce flash at these FABs, presumably they will do PRAM there as well.
-nB
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-nB
Well, why not. (Score:2)
Oh, wait...
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Clarification (Score:5, Informative)
I'm generally more a software person than hardware, but there's a lot to be excited about with this. It's apparently got a r/w time only 2-3 times the time of DRAM, and holds a lot of potential for things like paging files and storing frequently used software since there doesn't seem to be a limitation on the number of writes that can be applied. Once things develop, the technology might even be a ludicrous-speed replacement for hard-drives, as the storage mechanism is quite stable (more so than flash). I can definitely see this taking off in the future, if it delivers what it promises (and nothing else supercedes it in the meantime).
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Here's the issue (Score:5, Insightful)
A interesting example is the IBM 2301 drum memory device. Originally used as main memory, 2301's were later converted to paging devices. They had great transfer rates, but they became obsolete as soon as RAM sizes increased enough to cache a reasonable number of pages.
The reason is that even though "slow RAM" like drum memory seems intuitively useful as a "third stage" paging device, if you do the math versus the two-stage combination of very fast RAM and very much slower disk, you find that the RAM/disk combo performs almost as well. The conclusion therefore has been that it makes little sense to throw away your money on medium-speed RAM, because you'd have gotten more bang for the buck by spending it either on (a) more fast main memory, or (b) bigger/better disks.
Finally, if you look at history, the rotating storage industry continues to confound all of these "fast RAM" technologies by increasing performance and dropping $/bit at an amazing rate. Nothing is more primitive, to my mind, than spinning a disk platter in 2007 -- but there's still nothing better, and the technology shows no sign of dying.
Parent
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In working with large numbers of computers over the years, here are my informal statistics for failure. 1) hard drives 2) power supplies 3) other, almost at the noise level
And look at what the industry adds redundancy for in computers. 1) hard drives and 2) power supplies.
Sure, anyone that thinks about it will agree that spinning disk platters in 2007 i
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Seriously.
Maybe 20 years, but not much more.
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Seriously.
Maybe 20 years, but not much more.
Sure, I could be wrong, but there is no technology beyond tapes/disks that can store massive amounts of data _without power_.
Personal computers are now typically in the hundreds of gigabytes today. "Enterprise" computing is commonly in the terabyte range. Research/scientific computing is commonly in the petabyte and beyond.
It was only recently that tapes and disks replac
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I would love to see the hard drive industry start incorporating more read heads in to drives.
Imagine a single drive with two armatures, servo's and read/write heads. You could effectively double the throughput, reduce seek times, and improve latency. It wou
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This is essentially what a drum storage unit did... it had a cylinder that rotated very quickly it's outer surface was coated with magnetic material that was manipulated by a bar of read/write heads. The only reason these are not still in use today is that the number of tracks have become so high that a head/track is f
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Besides the reliability improvement another poster mentioned, PRAM also should have lower power draw, and less heat, than an equivalent HDD or hybrid setup. Also, HDDs aren't ramping up their performance like they once were (but if PRAM gave them an incentiv
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As far as capacity is concerned, enough is never enough, and folks who've made statements like that have lived to regret th
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-- Capacity: In the long term, I agree enough is never enough. For a particular system, I don't think it applies: even an 8GB hard drive connected to an original 8088 IBM PC is wasted (if you could make it work at all). *If* PRAM can scale well enough to stay ahead of "the curve", it will work out. O
Of course they have a demo... (Score:2)
Power consumption info (Score:2, Informative)
I was able to find a reference here:
http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/051213.html [hitachi.com]
And for comparison to flash memory, here is the 512Mb 1.8v part from ST Micro:
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/ 10058/nand512r3a.pdf [st.com]
The specs do not line up exactly.
PRAM: 100uA at 1.5V for programming each bit cell
FLASH: 8ma at 1.8V for programing one page (256 bytes), internally rebuffered in SRAM
Should be Purchasable RAM (Score:2, Funny)
And the nominee for "most obscure joke" is.... (Score:2)
Will this be part of the new Camelot architecture?....thought by some to be the "Holy Grail" of computing?
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