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Details of Next Gen Zune Surface

Posted by CmdrTaco on Wed Apr 11, 2007 09:22 AM
from the better-luck-next-time dept.
KMG writes "Zune Scene has got a scoop about the next generation Microsoft Zune. There will be two new models; a flash memory based and a hard drive based. Zune with HDD will be thinner and have larger storage capacity while the flash based will feature Wi-fi, video playback. So will we see another try from Microsoft to beat Apple's iPod or it will be another vain attempt from the Redmond guys."
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  • Yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Trivial_Zeros (1058508) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:25AM (#18688729)
    Will it come in brown?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:26AM (#18688745)
    Someone actually bothered to put up a fan site for it?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      way to notice. Blatant astroturfing.
      • Re:"Zune Scene"? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by geeber (520231) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:15AM (#18689535)
        way to notice. Blatant astroturfing.

        I especially like how the article claims the Zune scene editor just happened to conveniently bump into a MS Zune employee on a business trip and then proceeded to pump him for information...

        Yeah, right. And then monkeys flew out of his butt.
      • Re:"Zune Scene"? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @11:52AM (#18691173)
        I'd venture to say that the astroturfing is about as blatant as that of the infamous Sony PSP Christmas site. Comparisons straight from a marketing handbook (break out one functionality into several bullet points, etc), professional quality product photos (complete with high quality photoshopping of screen quality), completely improbably insider stories (not a single product or marketing manager will divulge info on future products unless that's the plan).... the list goes on.

        Really, really lame. If I want official info, I'd like it without the horrid writing.
    • by ceeam (39911) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @11:06AM (#18690409)
      Gives a new meaning to "when the shit hits the fan", ain't it?
  • More the Merrier (Score:5, Insightful)

    by p0tat03 (985078) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:28AM (#18688785)

    Bring it on I say. MS has shown that they can learn from their mistakes. The difference between the Xbox and 360 being a prime example. MS has the money to burn to keep making mistakes and learning from them. If that means they *eventually* make an iPod killer, so be it. The market needs more competing products, not less.

    • Microsoft has yet to show that they learn from their mistakes. The keep making mistakes only to see someone else get it right then they either:
      a) Buy out the competition
      b) Copy the competition
      c) Throw more money at the mistake and wait until next-gen to re-try A and B
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          "There was no service for MS to copy from "

          Yes there was.
          You are forgetting the DreamCast and SegaNet. (Phantasy Star Online anyone ?)

          But I don't mean it in a copy sort of way.
          SEGA shared its know-how with MS to help them build Xbox Live.
    • Re:More the Merrier (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Luscious868 (679143) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:45AM (#18689053)

      If that means they *eventually* make an iPod killer, so be it. The market needs more competing products, not less.

      There will never be an iPod killer. What you'll see is the iPod's market share steadily eaten away by a large number of other players. The iPod was a once in a decade phenomena like the Walkman before it. There's was and still is a lot of hype surrounding the iPod and it is a great product but other players have caught up in terms of functionality and are able to compete on price. What currently still gives the iPod the edge is the integration with the iTMS.

      Given the recent announcement that EMI will be offering DRM free music and Steve Job's statement that more than half of the music in the iTMS will be DRM free by the end of the year (suggesting that more deals are imminent), I'd argue that it is much more likely that people will begin buying DRM free music that they can use with the player of their choice and that will slowly but surely eat away at the iPod's market share as people chose to replace their iPods with lower cost alternatives without worrying about losing their investment in the music they've already purchased from the iTMS.

      That scenario is a lot easier to envision than some company producing the next big thing and having consumers dumping their iPods in droves for it. What is there really left for a portable mp3 player to do? Current iPods let you watch videos, listen to music, play games, store photo's and contact and the list goes on. I think the iPhone may be more popular than some people think but the concept will take a while to catch on and that's if Apple can deliver on it's promises. I'd love to have my phone and iPod in a single device that also gives me easy access to the web and e-mail. The price and the fact that it's currently tied to a single wireless provider are what will hold it back. Although both of those things will probably change in the future.

      If i was a betting man I'd say the 2nd or 3rd generation iPhone will be the closest thing that comes to an iPod killer provided Apple can increase the storage space, reduce the price and offer versions of the phone that can work with additional providers.

      • by shawnce (146129) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:40AM (#18689907) Homepage

        players have caught up in terms of functionality and are able to compete on price. What currently still gives the iPod the edge is the integration with the iTMS.
        The funny thing is many of the other players on the market, even when the first iPod shipped, had more (in some cases many more) end user features and/or lower pricing then the iPod. For example a couple players on the market at the time of the iPod could already play videos on screen or output to a TV/monitor. The initial thing the iPod had was FireWire (faster syncing and charging), iTunes (good GUI), and good UI (physical and graphical) with no extraneous features. With that Apple drove into the market and started to win almost immediately. When Apple opened the iPod up to Windows users it started to lose FireWire and gain minimal new features over the years.

        Apple was smart to slowly and systematically bring out new capabilities without making existing functionality more complex... this drove a repurchase tread that feed unit volumes and hype which allowed the iPod and Apple to capture mindshare.

        It is mindshare that makes the iPod truly successful and not any integration with iTunes Music Store.
    • no they wont. the DRM is what is killing the Zune. remove ALL DRM and let the user put on it what they want in the format they want (I.E. make it play all video and audio formats) and call it good.

      they can make the thing order pizza and it still will not sell because of the DRM.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I'll never understand why we need [such-and-such] killers. An iPod killer? Why? Whether people like it or not, the iPod is a good product, so why does it need to be killed.

      You're right, the more the merrier, so let's just leave the iPod in the game, but just hope that other people get in the game too. I'm hesitant to root for Microsoft after the abuse I've taken as one of their customers. I guess it's fine as long as they're sticking with MP3s or AACs, but in every instance where they're trying to for

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        360 is still has, by leaps and bounds, a far larger installed base than any of the other next-gen consoles. Discounting the Wii (which services a different market entirely), the 360 is selling like hotcakes in comparison to the other major competing next-gen console.

        Smartphones are far from flops. Blackberry's market share is being eaten away ever so steadily by Win-Mobile devices. It's not an avalanche victory, but it is going well for MS nonetheless.

        For MS's failures, they are getting quite a few thin

        • by SetupWeasel (54062) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:59AM (#18690287) Homepage
          360 is still has, by leaps and bounds, a far larger installed base than any of the other next-gen consoles. Discounting the Wii (which services a different market entirely), the 360 is selling like hotcakes in comparison to the other major competing next-gen console.

          As long as you don't include its toughest competition, the XBOX 360 is doing batshit-awesome !
  • Zune with HDD will be thinner and have larger storage capacity while the flash based will feature Wi-fi, video playback.

    that's a pretty great feature. While I'm not fond [at all] of the zune, that is a welcome addition. I'm just curious how much smaller the flash-based unit will be, if smaller at all. It would be interesting if they offered a smaller capacity, same-size unit with flash for the same price.

    Are there any other flash-based portable devices like this that play video out of the box?

    when is someon
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Why is every new mp3 player hyped as the next "iPod killer" by every hack blog writer and fanboy? Why can't they coexist peacfully? Afterall, more choice is good for the consumer, right?
  • Microsoft has a history of getting things sort of right eventually, usually around version 5.0 of something. Zune 1.0 was like Windows 1.0. Zune 2.0 will be like Windows 2.0

    A viable variant in this line of work will probably hit the market in time for the Christmas shopping season of the year 2012, long rumored to be the next season of the Apocalypse by the tin foil hat types, in cahoots with the Maya calendar freaks. Give my regards to Zule.
    • So at about version 3.0 we'll all be buying Zune's and about 10 years later we'll all be wishing we'd have stuck with iPod?
  • Is it worth it? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by timeOday (582209) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:31AM (#18688843)
    With enough retries, Microsoft usually gets it about right and succeeds in the end. (Deep pockets are a huge advantage). But my crystal ball says portable music will increasingly just be an expected feature of other devices, mainly cell phones. I think Apple may have milked the standalone music player fad dry by the time Microsoft gets out a good product.
    • Re:Is it worth it? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Andy_R (114137) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:51AM (#18689143) Homepage Journal
      Does Microsoft really get things right with enough retries? It's a common misconception that Windows 3 'got it right' and took over the world, but I think that was actually down to luck, when Windows 3.1 for Workgroups cashed in on the coincidental boom in office networking. Recent versions Office and Windows don't seem to be any more 'right' than before, they still sell because they are de-facto standards rather than actually 'good'.
  • by donstenk72 (593985) <slash&incalabria,com> on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:31AM (#18688849) Homepage
    This is a halfarsed attempt to get some hype going in the way Apple does. Hint, hint, hint, but no clear release schedule. Zune Scene editors are very hard to spot in the wild - you are more likely to meet them at Ms campus. What a joke.
  • by glavenoid (636808) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:34AM (#18688893)
    If they can get the Wi-fi to do something, you know, useful, then the Zune 2 might be a neat little device.
  • by thecalster (1081075) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:35AM (#18688907)
    Microsoft Zune may not be quite up to the iPod standard but it's getting there. One of the good things about having microsoft join the mp3 player wars is that it will make iPod come out with better updates to their ipod (the 5.5gen ipod was a little weak in the upgrade features). That and with the music copyprotecting systems getting lifted off itunes there is going to be some big changes happening with mp3 players in the future. The competition will make both of their products better.
  • by rholliday (754515) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:36AM (#18688929) Homepage Journal

    So will we see another try from Microsoft to beat Apple's iPod or it will be another vain attempt from the Redmond guys.
    So will we see snide comments from Apple fanboys or it will be snide comments from Apple fanboys.

    Come on guys, you can do better than that! Poor grammar, incorrect punctuation, and the two options don't contradict each other. It's not even a humorous or ironic "there is one option but we're pretending there are two" setup, it's just confusing. :)

    </troll>
  • I don't really think Zune will stand up to the iPod for a few generations of the device, even if that. But lets pretend that they do come out with a competitive alternative...will it create a price war between MS and Apple? Judging from the pricing of PC's vs Macs I'd say no, it might be a $50-100 drop in prices but there is something about the iPod, call it social acceptance or prestige of owning one, its kind of a status symbol to own an iPod. Unless Zune can get to that level as whatever you want to c
  • Apple Lock-In (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zobeid (314469) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:41AM (#18688983)
    It's about time to replace my ancient (1st gen) iPod, which has given heroic service. What would it take for me to consider another brand, any other brand, beside Apple?

    1. must play MP3 and M4A (AAC)

    2. must play nice with my Power Mac

    3. must sync with iTunes (practically my entire music collection is in iTunes)

    4. must work with the iPod dock connector in my car

    Zune should have no problem with 1, might possibly be okay with 2, but is locked out of 3 & 4 -- along with every other non-Apple player on the market, thus far, to the best of my knowledge. If anyone knows differently, please correct me!

    (And before anyone says anything. . . . No, my 1st gen iPod doesn't have a dock connector. In fact, my car stereo has only an aux input, it doesn't yet have an iPod dock connector either. My next one will. I'm looking to the future here.)
  • by Locutus (9039) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:42AM (#18689003)
    They'll keep at it no matter how bad their device is and eventually, people will accept them. BUT, it'll cost Microsoft 10's of billions and 10's of billions in losses. Does anybody remember the first Microsoft WindowsCE based handhelds over 10 years ago? I think they were clamshell versions and after about 3 years on the market, most of those vendors quit selling the WinCE devices for lack of interest/sales. Microsoft then renamed the product to MS PocketPC after the courts said they could use PalmPC and also allowed vendors to build portrait based versions. Another 7+ years passed and billions in losses but today, people accept the product.

    So it really doesn't matter what they put out, they'll just keep doing it, paying billions in marketing, discounts, and other incentives to vendors to keep pushing the product. The ONLY way this would not happen is if the press( hello /. ) stopped giving them any air time. Atleast make em pay you for it. IMO.

    LoB
  • Look. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Z0mb1eman (629653) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:43AM (#18689025) Homepage
    So will we see another try from Microsoft to beat Apple's iPod or it will be another vain attempt from the Redmond guys.

    Just because you don't put a question mark at the end of your badly phrased attempt to stir up the flames doesn't mean it's any less of an annoying and pointless question.

    PLEASE stop with the inane, pointless, content-free rhetorical questions at the end of submissions. They're annoying, biased, and make Slashdot look like amateur hour. The conversations would flow just as well, if not better, without the obvious "here's what you should think about this story" cues. Too bad the editors keep falling for them.
  • Maybe microsoft is trying to put out the best product it can without having to one-up other companies?

    In all seriousness, perhaps they should wait until apple is forced to open up their drm scheme so that they can compete in the installed market. Everyone knows that ipods have a life span of anywhere between 6 months and 2 years before either being dropped, over used, or just used (anyone remember the battery issue?). If microsoft could come out with a cheaper substitute that worked with itunes, they'd pro
  • WOW! This is IT! Thinner and larger storage capacity both? This is the breakthrough! However did those Microsoft boys do it?

    I'm buying one for my granddaughter. True, she already has two iPods (don't ask), but she won't want them once she hears about this! I sure hope Microsoft can meet the demand. I wonder if any of the stores are taking pre-orders now? I wouldn't want to pay $800 to get one on eBay, but, gosh, when all of her friends have them and are squirting songs to each other, I can't let her be the one to be left out.

    Actually, if she has two iPods I'd better get her two Zunes.

    And just the other day, my wife was saying to me "If Microsoft ever makes a Zune that is thinner and has a larger storage capacity I'd like you to get one for me."

    It really sounds almost perfect, but I wonder... do you suppose... there will be new colors, too? Maybe a triple-shot!

    This certainly puts the lie to all those rumor sites that were saying the next Zune would be thicker and have less storage.

  • by dpbsmith (263124) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:57AM (#18689235) Homepage
    They always get it right by version 3.0.

    They scoffed at Microsoft Bob, but look what happened with Microsoft Bob 3.0.

    They laughed at PlaysForSure, but where are all the skeptics now?

    They winced at WinCE, but can you name a single cell phone that doesn't use it today?

  • by nweaver (113078) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:04AM (#18689323) Homepage
    Salesman: The Zune allows you to wirelessly share songs with friends...

    Customer: That sounds cool.

    Me: But you can only play the shared song 3 times and it deletes itself after 3 days.

    Customer: Thats lame and pointless then.
  • by bahwi (43111) <incoming@@@josephguhlin...com> on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:33AM (#18689803) Homepage
    It's fun for us iPod people to make fun of the Zune *squirt* but after trying it out it's not really that bad. *squirt* Let there be competition *squirt* in the market! That's the whole point. That's why it's ok to have a bunch of linux distros and a couple of BSDs *squirt* and different desktop enviroments *squirt* like KDE and Gnome. Hopefully this will push Apple to innovate even more and release even better products *squirt* like bluetooth or wifi (I'd prefer bluetooth for neighbors but I know it's not the best protocol). Innovation doesn't hurt *squirt* anyone. Oh, you've got some, uhm, on your face.
  • Too early (Score:3, Insightful)

    by UnknowingFool (672806) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:44AM (#18689987)

    I guess my dislike of the Zune wifi features were too early and/or poorly implemented. I'm not going to discuss the details of the shortcomings of the Zune's Wi-Fi feature. Some people may credit them with being the first to offer wi-fi of any sort but did anyone ever think about why no other manufacturer implemented it first? (Apple, Creative, Sandisk, etc) The reason being was that wireless would be (and still is) impratical.

    Sure it would be cool to send songs wirelessly but that is only pratical for a few songs. You cannot transfer whole collections (measure in GBs) in a reasonable amount of time given the current state of wireless technology. 802.11g has a max rate of 54Mbps. 802.11n (540Mbps max) is the only version that can handle the rates required but wasn't in draft status until recently and won't be ratified until 2008. While USB2.0 has 480MBps and Fire400 has 400Mbps now. So if you were a manufacturer comtemplating wireless wouldn't you wait until 802.11n was more mature before implementing wireless?

    Even if wireless had the transfer rates required today, there are issues with battery life and security. I have a large collection and it took over 20 minutes to put into my iPod using USB2.0. Transferring all that data wireless is going to drain the batteries quickly. And then there is security. I can see a lot of ramifications with using wireless transfers. Eventually these can be overcome but it will take time. I think MS was a bit too early. Just my 2cents.

    • by MaestroRC (190789) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @09:31AM (#18688851) Homepage
      Because umm... flash is OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE? Hard drives let manufacturers sell these things for $3-400 with 30-80GB of storage, a 64GB flash drive is still in the $6-800 range in and of itself. Granted, prices will go down, but people want their storage now, and don't care so much about having to replace the thing every couple of years.
      • With music though, I think there is a point well below 64GB where "enough is enough". My entire music library on my computer *MIGHT* reach 12GB tops; it's probably closer to 8GB, and that's with 2000-3000 songs. Now I realize that many people have collections that dwarf that in size, but honestly, do you really need to tote around your ENTIRE collection in your pocket? Just seems like a 2GB flash card holding a couple hundred songs that you feel like listening to at the time would be just fine.\

        Of course
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          In many ways I agree with you - my extensive collection built up over 35 years or so has ~25Gb of music but...

          The lads I play poker with on a Monday night who are not technical are, in the main, the target audience and for them bigger is better. Their phones have to have the latest gadgets and they can tell you the number of pixels in their cameras without having to think about it, despite the fact that I pretty sure none of them would know a pixel if they met one in the street. I'm in a desparate battle t
        • by soft_guy (534437) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @10:23AM (#18689663)

          do you really need to tote around your ENTIRE collection in your pocke
          For the last time .. YES I FUCKING DO!!!!!!

          The reason is that with a larger collection, lets say 12,000 songs, who wants to spend the time to pick which 8,000 song to sync to the device?????

          And when I want to hear something, I want to hear it!

          So, I will not buy an MP3 player that doesn't hold my entire collection of music. I also want TV shows and movies. Eventually I plan to put every movie and TV show I own on DVD onto my computer and sync it to my iPod.

          I like hard drives. I'm not a child - I can carry around an iPod without dropping it.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Okay, I'm tired of this. 260,000 MB of mp3s at approximately 1MB/min of music means you have 180 days worth of music if you ran it constantly without ever repeating. Seriously folks, it would probably take at least 5-10 years for you to realistically listen to 260GB of music. I have a hard time believing that you have a) ever listened to all of the music you own and b) have any reasonable use for carrying it all with you on a portable device. 5 days worth of music on constant play with no repeats is a l
            • I like having a choice from all my music, depending on my mood. It's not about trying to listen to all my music all at once. I also have a 1GB shuffle and it sucks when I want to listen to a song I didn't put on it. I suppose it's the same reason I have several thousand books in my house. Choice is cool!
              • by bberens (965711) on Wednesday April 11 2007, @11:37AM (#18690903)
                Not to beat a dead horse, but that's sort of my point. You could pick 5 different genres and record 24 contiguous hours of music from each genre on an 8GB portable music device. Contrary to the belief of several posters below super high bit-rate or lossless audio is not really appropriate for portable audio. At 128kb/s it's impossible for anyone to tell the difference between that and CD quality in your car stereo with road noise and other background. The same is said for non-noise-canceling headphones in the office. I mean sure, it's your money and your drive space so do what you want with it. People are just kidding themselves though if they think it's magically superior.
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              I have some 800+ CDs that I've been buying over the last ~19 years. No, I don't listen to all of them all the time, but as things come and go I've heard everything there at least 5 times. My MP3 drive has around 200+ GB of files, and that's just the stuff I've kept after listening to everything at least twice. No iPod will ever hold my complete library and I don't expect it to, and since I mainly listen to music at work, not everything in my collection is condusive to working to in an office environment.

              Ta
              • Except in your jump to prove him wrong, you seem to be under the belief that your 250kbps files somehow dwarf his 1mb/min assumption. 250kbps is 1.43MB a minute. That 260gig collection is now 3,100 hours.

                You then add this spin, whereby you somehow suggest that your "50 hours a week" of listening at/to/from work might only be around 2 weeks. You don't actually say it, though, because it looks far better for your so-called "point" to use the figure of two weeks, when even at your 50 hours a week, said collec

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          You're confusing flash memory with flash memory cards (such as SD, MMC, CF, xD, someonepleasestopitwiththeformats). iPod nanos and shuffles as well as many other players have flash memory in them, not hard drives. the iPod video and Zune have hard drives, but it's not feasible because the flash *is* too expensive for these players for the capacity they need (movies take up a lot of space, and replacing a 80GB with an 8GB device isn't feasible, which is why they have different lines of players). Just beca
    • How were you planning to get your harddrive up to 1000 G's? You'd have to launch it at a speeding train.
      • I was curious exactly what you'd have to do to get 1,000 Gs, so here are some back-of-the-envelope numbers for comparison:

        It wouldn't survive being fired out of a handgun (zero to 800fps along a 5" barrel [1] implies an acceleration, assuming I did my math right, of ~468000 m/s^2 or about ~47,000 Gs).

        Still, it's better than your brain inside your head, which can only take about 150-200 Gs before you start doing serious/irreparable damage [2] (the rest of your body is a lot lower, like 8-20 Gs depending on d