DARPA Planning Liquid Robots

moon_monkey writes "According to New Scientist, Darpa is soliciting proposals for so-called Chemical Robots (ChemBots) that would be soft, flexible and could manoeuvre through openings smaller than their static structural dimensions. They suggest that it could be made from shape-memory materials, electro- or magneto-rheological materials or even folding components."

Have You Seen This Boy?

[igotmybfg]

*Holds up picture of John Connor*

Re:Have You Seen This Boy?

[croddy]

Wolfy's fine, honey. Where are you?

Re:Have You Seen This Boy?

[HangingChad]

Yeah, it's all fun and games until your liquid robot reshapes its hand into a poker and someone loses an eye.

Re:

[llamaxing]

and then it's mitosis! (haha, cell division. I crack myself up!)

Re:

[EricTheO]

I'm thinking Vibrating penis implants. Better for her, no chemical side effects for you. Ouch!

But but

[ady1]

But do they spill linux?

Re:But but

[The_Wilschon]

I can almost imagine a Beowulf gallon of these!

Re:

[zCyl]

In Soviet Russia, vodka drinks your robot?

Re:

[Barryke]

1) I for one welcome our liquid overlords.
2) ..
3) Profit!

Re:

[SnarfQuest]

And to think, it all started with a broken cursor...

Liquid Metal

[rlp]

And don't forget the requisite interface to SkyNet.

Re:

[louisadkins]

Not likely, as SkyNet [bbc.co.uk] is part of the British Military. Though, I guess there could be a connection via "allied forces." RunAway!

Artificial muscle required

[LiquidCoooled]

The small creatures discussed can only get through places where their bone structure allows.
Its inpractical for a mouse to get through somewhere that involves breaking its own bones (unless a mouse is chasing it!).
Make boney robots with flubber muscles and batteries and you are onto a winner.
No flex required in the skeleton.

Re:

[LiquidCoooled]

unless a mouse is chasing it

of course I meant cat and please ignore the other cockups and errors.

Re:

[Torvaun]

Why should it be a mouse? If we compare it to a shark, we've got much more flexible cartilage. Such a robot might be capable of passing through spaces smaller than the smallest dimension of the largest structural member. Even better would be if we went with an amoeba or something similar, where there are no bones at all, merely controlled motive forces. Are there any engineering specialists around to tell me if there's any good way to do something like that?

Re:Artificial muscle required

[Elemenope]

Even better would be if we went with an amoeba or something similar, where there are no bones at all, merely controlled motive forces. Are there any engineering specialists around to tell me if there's any good way to do something like that?

Yes. Hire an amoeba.

Re:

[Torvaun]

Yes. Hire an amoeba.
Ok, are there any programmers around to tell me the best language to use to program an amoeba?

Re:

[amRadioHed]

I believe DNA is the preferred programming language. But be warned the amoeba specs are more complicated than C++, they have the largest known genome of any creature.

Re:

[iminplaya]

I would, but his lawyer is a real parasite.

Usage

[Chris whatever]

I would by a door made out of this material and it would slap solicitors whenever they knock at my door.

When someone asks what crawled up your ass.....

[Chineseyes]

Now when someone asks what crawled up your ass they might be very serious.

Re:

[Tablizer]

Now when someone asks what crawled up your ass they might be very serious.

Might be better than the way the doctor or airport security does it.
         

T-1000?

[ZirbMonkey]

Sounds to me like they want something out of the Terminator 2 movie. I'm not exactly sure what they want with a robotic slug though. The design request seems pretty weird to me.

You're not thinking like a woman

[MarkByers]

> I'm not exactly sure what they want with a robotic slug though. The design request seems pretty weird to me.

It's not meant for men.

Call the Governator

[roman_mir]

The Governator Arnold must be notified immediately, his presence in our world was not in vain. He will still have his fight before he is 120.

NO YOU FOOLS!

[Geekfather]

YOU'VE KILLED US ALL!!!

They could look real good

[Ruvim]

...while blending to the tiled floor

The BLOB!

[throatmonster]

What, it only takes 40 years for the DoD to pick up on cheesy B-grade sci fi movies?

I always really liked the skit about the "Snit" - scientists supposedly create an organism that is comprised of the perfect form of protein.

Interviewer: "What does it look like?"
Scientist: "Kind of like guacamole, with eyes."

and a bit later on...

Scientist: "The only problem is we haven't figured out how to kill it."
Interviewer: "Have you tried grinding it up?"
Scientist: "Yes, we just get more snits.

and at the end...

Scientist

Re:

[ben0207]

No, they were funny.

Obligatory...

[jeevesbond]

Just getting the obligatory stuff over with ...

I for one welcome our new chemical-robotic, payload-carrying overlords.

In UK you watch 'Robot Wars',
In Soviet US robot watches YOU!

Re:

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

In UK you watch 'Robot Wars',

Nah, in UK you beg Iran to release the illegally captured liquid robots, please please pretty please.

Liquid robots

[chanrobi]

I think most of us here have 'hands-on' experience with this already...

Gah

[RichMan]

Variable, flexible and soft is not liquid.
    - liquid implies no strong bonding between neighboring particals, the particals are free to change their relationships with each other.

Remote control is not robot.
    - robot is autonomous.

This was a rant.

Re:Gah - not really liquid

[rubycodez]

a mimetic polyalloy

Re:

[khallow]

Incorrect. Water for example has strong bonding between neighboring water molecules. Instead groups of water molecules are free to change their relations with each other. Then there's silly putty [wikipedia.org], which is solid at small time scales (it'll bounce for example). But it flows as a liquid on a time scale of hours. And you can knead silly putty.

Basically, it is liquid if you have the properties you mention at some distance and time scale. My take is that this chemical robot need not have the properties of a li

I, for one

[WetCat]

I, for one, welcome our grey-goo making liquid overlords!

No different from many other breakthroughs . . .

[mmell]

Somebody says "hey, this remarkable thing might be possible." DARPA says "Hey, we should investigate and see if that's useful."

Remember the inter-net? "Connect multiple computers with disparate architectures manufactured and designed by multiple manufacturers into a single integrated network architecture with seamless sharing of data, regardless of native format." I was vaguely associated with the development work DARPA did on this back in the early 80's - I was sure they were chasing a pipe-dream. DARPA often does, you know.

Yup - if only one pipe-dream in a hundred ever makes it, the internet sure shows that the other ninety-nine pipes weren't wasted; we can use 'em as tubes for the intarweb. So even if we don't come up with a Cyberdyne T-1000, let's see if something useful does come out of this research. Remember, the Nautilus, space travel, powered flight, even travel in excess of fifty to sixty miles per hour were all once ridiculous ideas - all theoretically impossible for many good scientific reasons. Now, we have nuclear submarines, (arguably) reusable spacecraft, jet travel and teenagers who can't seem to drive at less than seventy to eighty miles per hour!

Re:No different from many other breakthroughs . .

[nekopa]

The Internet is a DARPA pipe-dream? So I guess it really IS a series of tubes...

Forget Chembots

[Anonymous Coward]

I want Fem-Bots! Groovy, baby...

Kind of like Tooms

[rd]

but wouldn't eat the livers... hopefully.

April's fools

[blind biker]

Remember: it's not funny if it's so obvious.

When these things become popular...

[mi]

Will we see UN, other foreigners, and some Americans push for the conrol over them to become international in 30 years? Because, you know, the big and evil US will be abusing them left and right...

Teen Band...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't there some of teen band named My Chemical Robot?

How 'bout colloidial von Neumman devices

[karlandtanya]

Smart enough to develop the liquid robots.

A Fundamental Problem with Robotics

[LifesABeach]

The designs for Robots of various types, and uses have been around for years. Hollywood is by no means a bastion of creativity. But the main problem that seems to be overlooked by most Wanna-Be Robot Inventors is the POWER SUPPLY. I would think that the DARPA folks would first want do some fundamental research, and solve the problem that is the choke point for all Robotics projects.

RE: Solving the power problem

[loimprevisto]

Don't you get it? This is DARPA we're talking about, they already have...

Re:

[susano_otter]

Have you checked your List of Things DARPA Isn't Researching? It's probably on your bookshelf, right next to your List of RC Cars That Never Went To Market Because of Power Supply Problems.

What I hear in the back of my mind:

[Lost Penguin]

This will end well.

T-1000 anyone?

Oh cool!

[Gilmoure]

A robot composed of hot grits, in the shape of a female. Female octopus that is.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[Dachannien]

No, we wouldn't want a robot that could squeeze through rubble to find survivors of a building collapse. No sirree.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[$RANDOMLUSER]

While you're right that that would be an ideal use for such a device, that's not what they're asking for:

PROGRAM GOALS AND MILESTONES
The goal of this program is to develop a payload-carrying soft robotics platform that can be used in military operations to access denied territory through small openings and perform functions.

Sure sounds more like covert ops (sneak in and blow them up) to me.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[peragrin]

you do realise the entire internet was designed as a hardened system to help communication in face of a massive nuclear strike.

What starts with an expensive cold military purpose becomes a tool for every day use.

There are very few things the military does that won't have practical everyday applications in 20 years.

Re:

[Ambitwistor]

you do realise the entire internet was designed as a hardened system to help communication in face of a massive nuclear strike.

An urban legend. It was actually designed to allow ARPA contractors to efficiently share resources. See here [wikipedia.org] and here [ibiblio.org].

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

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[Ambitwistor]

While I haven't read that book, I have read several reviews which cite it as debunking the notion that ARPANET was originally created to produce a nuclear-resistant network. So I am curious about you citing it in the opposite context. As far as I can tell from Googling on that book and other sources, Paul Baran came up with the idea of packet switching to make a nuclear-strike resistant network, but that wasn't why ARPA decided to fund ARPANET.

In addition, I know an ex-DARPA program manager who asked one

Re:

[Ambitwistor]

Incidentally, the Publishers Weekly review in the very Amazon link cited states,

"And while the book attempts to debunk the conventional notion that ARPANET was devised primarily as a communications link that could survive nuclear war (essentially it was not), pioneer developers like Paul Baran (who, along, with British Scientist Donald Davies devised the Internet's innovative packet-switching message technology) recognized the importance of an indestructible message medium in an age edgy over the prospects

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

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[Ambitwistor]

Of course DARPA wants something with military applications — that's what the "D" in DARPA is for. But that doesn't mean that military technology can't have large civilian payoffs, either. (Need I remind anyone here of the Internet? That was back in the days of ARPA, but that organization has always been oriented towards the technological support of national security.)

Of course nothing good comes from military tech...

[CasperIV]

You have to have been smoking a little too much weed to think that a military goal does not drive and benefit peace time technology. You might want to scroll through some of the biggest and most widely applied technological breakthroughs of the last century and see how many were related to military research...

Re:

[BFaucet]

I'm sure we could invest in something that would save far more lives with much less money. Like cancer or heart disease research. Or maybe more flexible building materials. Oh wait... that doesn't mean $$$ for military corporations.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[qwijibo]

The way the request is written, there could be some non-killing applications for these kinds of robots. Search and rescue operations frequently require getting into small spaces to find out what's going on. Collecting information from an unaccessible location has many practical applications. If the espionage applications are the ones that will pay for the research, so be it. The majority of research funding goes into finding new and creative ways to eradicate the human race, but this one could also have up sides.

The timelines are consistent with current project management methodologies - if you have no intention of completing the project, you may as well fail on an aggressive timeline. At least they haven't yet reached the point where the start date is expected to be after the completion date.

Re:

[billcopc]

"espionage operations" don't pay for anything, trigger-happy right-wingers pay for everything! You don't profit from espionage unless you're casing a bank.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[jimbolauski]

Lots of money goes towards protecting soldiers, light body armor for example. When the Chinese decide to invade the US I'll be glad we have fancy killing weapons. The best way to protect our soldiers is to eliminate the enemy. It would be nice to think everyone can play together but thats not the case, I would rather have laser guns that collect dust than old m16s that can't penetrate the enemy's new body armor.

Re:

[Atlantis-Rising]

When the Chinese invade the US? With what sea/airlift capability, exactly?

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[cheater512]

Human bridge over the Atlantic.

MOD PARENT UP

[icedcool]

Mod Parent Up. That is funny stuff.

Re:

[Xentor]

I can't...

+1 Funny
-1 Wrong Ocean

Re:

[Chmcginn]

-1 Wrong Ocean

Not really. Why would they go for the U.S. first? Regardless of who you are, it's easier to conquer your neighbors before trying to cross a rather large ocean.

Re:

[Xentor]

Hmm, true... Especially since you could use THEIR bodies to build the bridge instead of your own people.

Re:

[KingKaneOfNod]

Not really. Why would they go for the U.S. first? Regardless of who you are, it's easier to conquer your neighbors before trying to cross a rather large ocean.

Someone should have told this to the makers of Red Alert 2.

Re:

[Chmcginn]

Well, I can understand an attempt to decapitate your biggest competition... but, to try to cross a non-trivial ocean & invade a well-entreched country, when you still have resources literally next door you could grab just seems silly.

Then again, Yuri was pretty much completely insane, yah?

Re:

[Squalish]

Furthermore, why? They could easily just sell all their US debt and send the US into hyperinflation. They don't desire to do this right now - but as soon as they have a domestic economy anywhere near our size and we present any sort of threat, they can easily cripple us in that regard without firing a shot or harming themselves in any way.

Re:

[nomadic]

In the year 2190? China will not have a suitably strong domestic economy for decades, if ever.

Economic analysis from Uranus

[The Monster]

They could easily just sell all their US debt and send the US into hyperinflation.

How do you figure? First they'd have to find buyers for the debt, which belies your 'easily'. But let's suppose they do find those buyers. Now instead of China holding the debt, someone else does, and China holds some assets that the others had before.

How does changing to whom we owe money from 'China' to some other name cause inflation, much less hyperinflation?

Re:

[Gilmoure]

I thought Britain owned the largest amount of U.S. properties and presidents?

Re:

[Retric]

If China sells off US debt they increase the supply of US security's which reduces their value. For the US to keep borrowing money they would need to increase the interest rate to counter this which increases the cost to the US of borrowing money.

The problem with this is US securities are revolving debt so we need to find someone else to buy that debt when it comes due or pay it off by dumping the value of our currency.

Re:

[CheeseTroll]

The problem would actually be if it *wasn't* easy for China to find other buyers for the debt.

Re:

[iminplaya]

With what sea/airlift capability, exactly?

What do you think those "Walmart" factories are for? Remember, just like us, they have a "GE" that makes toasters and military hardware also.

Re:

[billcopc]

Why the hell would China invade the US ? We already buy all their horrible electronics and bootleg movies. It's not like Americans make good slaves, and they have everything to lose by killing their #1 customers.

Here's my proposal: Do away with all weaponry and defense research, it's all a waste of time, money and life. Just sort all people by their intelligence and trustworthiness, then starting from the center of the country, start spreading them out in concentric rings from smartest to dumbest until

Re:

[drooling-dog]

Someone at the DoD needs to hire slightly less movies and think more about how old fashioned "hearts and minds" would be a better thing to pour money into.

Pretty much everyone in the research community knows that DARPA has become a bastion of junk and pseudo-science in recent years. I'm sure they're working (i.e., spending lots of money) on perpetual motion and anti-gravity machines even as we speak. So don't jump to the conclusion that earth-shaking advances right out of SciFi are just around the corner because somebody says that DARPA is on it...

Oblig Python ref

[Bearhouse]

And so, apart from the amazing advances in medical treatment, jet engines, the internet and the first electronic computers, WHAT has military-requested government funding ever done for us! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/quotes [imdb.com]

Re:

[drooling-dog]

Not knocking military-sponsored research per se, just saying that DARPA has gone a little off the deep end. I'm sure there are solidly-grounded projects there too. Well, pretty sure.

Re:Idea management by Blockbuster

[c6gunner]

Since when has giving people things ever worked to win "hearts and minds" in the long run? Todays breed of anti-government anarchists, hippies, and malcontents are amongst the richest and most privileged human beings in history. They have attained that status through the rights and opportunities afforded to them by their governments. Yet their "hearts and minds" seem to be planted firmly in the camp of those who would not only give them nothing, but take away everything.

"Free Shit" generally leads only to resentment and antipathy. It is by providing people with the freedom and opportunity to decide their own future that the US has become the great nation it is today, while communist nations which attempt to provide everything for everyone while asking nothing of anyone have blown away like dust on the winds of history.

Re:

[billcopc]

correlation, causation, blah blah blah. The government has CREATED these so-called anarchists because gov't has repeatedly shown its citizens that it is completely incapable of serving their interests. It used to be, when your government went berserk and stopped listening to its people, you'd build up a militia and storm the capital to "take back your country" by force. We haven't really needed to do that in a long time so people have gotten out of shape when it comes to defending their rights. There ar

Re:

[Henneshoe]

I am fairly confident that the government satisfies most of the people in our country. If the majority of American citizens were fed up with the government things would change, and new parties would be put in power. However, most people are content with their day-to-day life and choose not to put any effort into changing things. In short, the government will never be able to satisfy everyone, so there will always be a segment of "so-called anarchists" who want things changed, and if enough of these peopl

Re:

[billcopc]

There can be no revolution because the people are too complacent. The government could piss every single person off, including their own staff, and people still would just sit at home and bitch in front of their TV over the 6 o'clock news. It's always someone else's job to take care of it or "I don't do politics"... well politics are sadly what shapes our lives. We live in society, maybe we should pay attention to what that society is doing for us, not TO us.

Re:

[Lord Ender]

It is by providing people with the freedom and opportunity to decide their own future that the US has become the great nation it is today,

Well, that and not getting our infrastructure blown-to-hell in WWII, like the rest of the industrialized world. Oh, and having lots of natural resources.

There were many reasons why our economy did well in the last half of the last century. It's hard to say exactly how much should be attributed to any one factor.

Personally, I think a more socialist economic stance could bo

MOD PARENT UP

[Paul Fernhout]

This is a big reason the USA is losing its competitive edge.

Re:

[c6gunner]

Incentives for small-business aren't really socialist, unless they come in the form of actual "wealth redistribution". If the government provides large tax breaks for small businesses, that tends to encourage entrepreneurship, which increases economic growth. I deffinitely wouldn't call it socialist. And you're right about the rest too - having lots of natural resources certainly helped with the growth, as did not getting "blown to hell". On the other hand, Canada also didn't get blown to hell, and has

Re:

[Lord Ender]

State-sponsored medical care and significant retirement pensions aren't "socialist?"

Re:

[c6gunner]

That would be why I didn't mention socialized medicine and pensions. The government should stick to laws and taxes.

Re:

[Lord Ender]

Giving tax breaks for businesses does NOT allow independent inventors to innovate. Innovative businesses need the time to develop a product before there is any revenue. When there is no revenue, tax breaks can't pay for drugs and surgeries.

Tax breaks may encourage people to open their own drywall subcontracting business, but they don't help people come up with anything actually new. In a service/knowledge driven economy, new innovations are much more important.

Re:

[c6gunner]

That's why we have these wonderful people called "speculative investors", and "venture capitalists", who will give you money if you can convince them that you have a good idea. If your product sucks, or you're a shitty salesman, well, sucks to be you.

Re:

[Lord Ender]

Since I've never, in my life, even met such a person, the system isn't working very well.

Re:

[Andy Gardner]

They have attained that status through the rights and opportunities afforded to them by their governments.

Just one critical flaw in your argument. Typically those with power never freely decide to relinquish it. The rights and freedoms we currently enjoy weren't gifted to us from on high. They were attained through centuries of struggle and activism.

Re:

[GundamFan]

People wonder why America is producing less and less Scientists and Engineers. It's because we have no imagination any more. We need to get our heads out of the sand and find something to reach for or learn to accept not being important in the world.

Re:

[freezin fat guy]

We need to get our heads out of the sand and find something to reach for or learn to accept not being important in the world.

Not important? I would mention from a foreigner's perspective we believe you will likely remain the cornerstone of the free world for quite some time. It is for that reason we are concerned about a number of your present actions and attitudes.

Re:

[Oligonicella]

Then, mayhap the rest of the free world (sans Au) might begin to act like freedom from tyranny is a shared concept instead of kowtowing each time a despot rattles a sabre?

Re:

[WhiteWolf666]

As an employee at a chemical firm who likes to research this sort of "cutting edge" stuff, I took this over to our engineers, just for kicks.

Their primary complaint wasn't that you couldn't make a flexible robot (albeit perhaps a much slower one that described in the RFP). Their complaint was that the robot wouldn't have a CPU, or a brain, because we weren't yet at the capability of doing that kind of thing.

I responded that (excluding the exotic stuff like using a mouse brain) my cursory review of the RFP s

Re:

[JensenDied]

someone already did one this page (its up more, but I have not checked post times)