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The Home Server Cometh
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:58 AM
from the where-you-keep-your-treasure dept.
from the where-you-keep-your-treasure dept.
narramissic writes "Apart from Apple's 'I'm cooler than you' ad campaign, you don't hear much about the Windows versus Mac battle these days. The reason: Today's battle isn't about 'what brand of computer sits on the desk in your spare room, or even what operating system it runs, it's going to be about who gets to dominate the market for home servers that will control your entertainment, television, telephony, and your home automation system,' argues Dan Blacharski in a recent article."
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Entertainment: Windows Home Server Details 234 comments
phorest writes "Perhaps Microsoft read the comments from the Slashdot community on Windows Home Server? In any event Microsoft is opening up WHS for users to construct their own system after all; though I'd like to see the price of this OS release before making the jump. From the review: "At the 2007 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week... Microsoft previewed its long-awaited Windows Home Server product, a Windows Server 2003 R2-based server for consumers that dispenses with the complexities of most Windows Server versions and provides the core storage, sharing, and remote access functionality that digital media and home networking enthusiasts require... Microsoft will make WHS available in two ways: Bundled with new WHS hardware and software-only, the latter so that enthusiasts can install the system on the hardware of their choice... If you're building your own home server, Microsoft requires a 1 GHz processor or better, 512 MB of RAM or more, and as many disks as you think you need. The company will support multiple home servers on the same network, but it's still murky how that will work."
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Cooler than me? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cooler than me? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Cooler than me? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yet, you remember their name, and repeat it in your post. Sounds like the campaign might be working after all.
With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft has Windows Media Center which, in its Vista iteration will provide support for HDTV recording, CableCard support, and downloadable content (much like iTunes). Then add in Xbox 360 which can do much of the same along with IPTV (just announced), extend Windows Media Center, and also play games. The online part (Xbox Live) is a great addition to all that.
Apple's AppleTV product is kind of lame, and I was rather disappointed in it. It only plays items from iTunes and locks you in further. Doesn't play Divx, doesn't record anything -- it's more of an 'extender' than anything else. And if the sales Linksys shows anything in regards to how well extenders do, we know we can write it off for the die-hard Mac fans.
That said... I love Apple and the way they innovate. Some products are hits (iPhone) and some are misses (AppleTV). Time will tell either way, but Microsoft is definitely gearing up to be the dominant force in the living room.
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Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is like a happy MythTV user stating that he doesn't need a big fat backend box. He might not see the value in it to begin with but he will eventually. It's like the lure of those big fat upgrade disks at Weaknees.
The living room media hub isn't the best place to put even a DVD jukebox or two, nevermind a bunch of 750GB sata drives.
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Apple URLS (Score:3, Interesting)
When will people get it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I am not a bit fan of Apple, but I must admit this product has some serious potential. The question is - are the people ready for it?
-Em
Parent
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Insightful)
rant warning...
What I don't get is why these devices have to "like" a certain media at all. The AppleTV likes Apple-friendly MP4. The Xbox 360 likes WMV. Or you need third party software to transcode. Processing power required for any modern codec isn't an issue. Is it licensing costs that limit the amount of codec support? Pressure to include/account for DRM?
I really hate to keep beating the topic to death, but where is the XBMC work-alike? I don't fucking care what codec is used, I just want to play it. All the set top box by my TV needs to do is decode the media and put it on my TV. All the source server needs to do is serve the damn file from a Samba/Windows share (or NFS mount, I wish). That setup is half as complex as any of these other systems. The entire world was shown the exact device that would do that with XBMC.
How expensive would it be to make a little set top box with computer guts, 512MB of flash storage, and a DVD drive? With economies of scale, I'd bet that it could be done for a cost of under 50 $USD. I don't have the background to engineer a device like that, but I know from seeing XMBC on an original Xbox that it would be stupid simple on today's hardware. Hell, the Xbox with XBMC can do 720 by 480, and it wasn't even designed for it! Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo each had a chance with their consoles to strike a major blow to the others with this unencumbered capability and each of them missed it.
I have a feeling that while Microsoft, Apple, Sony, and media companies are all squabbling over how to play protected content or leveraging another type of business, a Chinese, Korean, or Taiwanese company will deliver a cheap little codec-agnostic device that does all this, and all other crippled devices and services will be made irrelevant.
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Still, DivX is MPEG4. With XviD, at least, all you have to do is change the fourcc and Quicktime can play it. AppleTV might need it to be in a quicktime container, though. I have no idea.
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm thinking of getting an AppleTV and an EyeTV product [elgato.com] (in my case a EyeTV Hybrid) instead of spending $800 on an HD TiVo. The EyeTV will act as a DVR (except for the "live tv" features), saving my recordings into iTunes for viewing on the AppleTV. Also, I hear that you can rip DVDs and add them to iTunes also (just like any other video file).
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Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the AppleTV tech Specs page: Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile
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I'm not saying it's a bad or worthless device but it's not versatile for todays and upcoming market.
I want the device that will record component or DVI or even HDMI for that matter. No such thing exists yet.
I want to record content I want to record and stream to different devices of my choosing.
Everything so far is vendor lockin.
Tivo requires a cablecard which doesn't work for everyone - mainly satellite subscribers.
Satellite
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Insightful)
AppleTV is a still-born idea. For $300 more, you can get a fully functional mini that can do everything the AppleTV can do(ok...it can't do component video out, but it has a DVI port...you add the DVI-HDMI cable), and is still a functional computer. Add a an Eyetv 250, and it's a DVR. Granted, this all costs money, but about the same as a "comparable" Windows Media box.
The products, so far, a little more than attempts to enter the market. Most home users don't want things that connect to other things, wirelessly or otherwise, they just want one thing they can sit down in front of, plug in their video camera/digital camera, have it suck out the content, and put it one the screen. Also, they can put in a DVD/CD, have it rip the media, and be able to watch the movie. Finally, they want something that they don't need to pay for TV content they can get free(or have already paid for from the cable/satellite company), and record on their DVR. They want it in HD(if that was the original resolution), not "near" the resolution.
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Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:5, Insightful)
I kind of think that is where Apple TV is a start (just a small piece). There will have to be a "media server" with a LOT of storage in the background. then on the one hand the interface to the large components - the TV and big speakers - that is Apple TV, on the other hand an interface to handheld devices - which the iphone is the start. That is where a tablet or really a good reading device would come in - the new newspaper - wirelessly attached at home or away - with stories and video. The computer kind of dissappears in this - the old "ubiquitous" computing stuff from long ago finally realized (forget the phone and look at the other features of that Apple product). That might be part of the reason for "Apple Inc" now with Apple Computer gone..
I talked Apple, but Microsoft could be coming at this from the angle with the Xbox and Zune front end, back end Vista server. Its just that a large part of their earnings are from business software - which is really a different market altogether that right now happens to use the same equipment.
Parent
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well Microsoft is the only one of the two that has a true product in this market so far. However, I know of many people who are using MacMinis and MacBooks with FrontRow in the living room.
One problem MS has is the same problem it had with MP3 players. MS only makes the software. It has to rely on hardware makers. The 360 is a step into leveraging both hardware and software. For people who don't want a game console, MS itself has no hardware option.
Another problem is form factor. All MS Media Center PCs from HP or Dell are PCs that have with media center functions. They are not HTPCs. Setting up a true Media Center is still in the realm of computer hobbyists. Your average consumer has no idea the complexity involved. AppleTV is Apple's proposed solution to this problem. Your average consumer needs little knowledge is setting one up.
Microsoft and Apple are taking two different approaches to this market. Microsoft approach has been to leverage Windows into new markets. Much like with PDAs and smart phones. With Media Center, they take the PC and try to conform it to the requirements of the market. In the first iteration, throw everything into it and work out the kinks in later iterations. That's why the first Media Center editions sucked.
Apple has taken the other way. Add functionality to existing devices that sorta fulfills a purpose. Then make a device specifically designed for the purpose. Later add functions in subsequent iterations. Look at the AppleTV. It's not a computer. You can't use it as such.
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Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:4, Insightful)
Their iDisk backup is ludicrous: 1GB of storage. I have 38GB just of MP3s. Of course even if they offered 100GB of storage space (or more) that's a lot of data to push out through a cable modem/dsl, etc. Even with incremental back ups.
I'd be much more impressed if Apple were to come out with a simple Home Server than with this iTV. I need a Mac-Mini style device (headless, small, lower-end hardware, althogh obviously with more space for extra drives) that look beautiful and serves as the center for my home network.
MS, to their credit, is responding with exactly such a device. The HP MediaSmart (http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-2
In the rush to get the PC to your living room we have seen a proliferation of computer devices (Ipods, consoles, laptops, desktops, printers, etc.) with no way to tie those things together. Before we add yet another extension of the home network, we need a decent commodity server.
Apple, are you listening?
-stormin
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But only 1 USB port. So if you really need to purchase an additional USB hub to use with it.
And that gigabit ethernet will be awfully useful since you're going to be using it as a fileserver for assumedly 1-5 people in your house. With all that traffic - videos and music and whatnot (throw 2 kids plus you plus s/o or friend(s) on the lan, irc, watching movies from the share, plus a bittorrent or two, ichat/aim/jabber, Tivo/ReplayTV video download from the devices, web and
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Look, for $1,000 I can get a home file server that also functions as a very decent PC. I'm talking everything: nice case, power supply, motherboard, RAM, core duo, etc. Including 3 hard drives, two 320GB and a 10K 74GB drive. That's $1,000 and I'm done. I know I can do this because I'm doing it right now.
Can I do that with Mac? It's possible. I could get a MacMini and eat up all the peripherals with USB drives and software RAID. So that's close to the same cos
Re:With the introduction of AppleTV... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Maybe too much (Score:3, Interesting)
> television, telephony, and your home automation system
My goodness. This strikes me as being a little out of touch. Most folks I know don't have a home automation system and they use whatever the phone company brings in for their phone lines, with maybe a little Skype. And that's a small maybe.
I think a more interesting battle is to secure and improve communications within and around the current stuff. So while I still have email accounts and mailing lists and such, I use indi to share pictures [getindi.com] with my relatives. It's our one spam-free and ad-free comms mechanism...
Re:Maybe too much (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, geeks and very high end users will be looking into all of this, however most people (aka most of the market) is still jsut looking at their desktop (or possibly a laptop) as the computer for the house. It is true, it is becoming more frequent for each person in a house to have a computer, but still, we are not looking as homse servers dealign with A/V, telephony, home automation or ANYTHING for a while yet in my books.
On a side note: the reason why is that there is not a cheap and easy soloution yet. You can buy a good soloution, but it costs a good chunk of change. Or you can roll your own, but that requires a decent amount of knowledge (hey, a modded XBox makes a great media center, but most people wouldn't know how to make a XBox gameport to USB adapter, or even that you could).
Parent
you don't hear much about the Windows versus Mac.. (Score:5, Funny)
These guys must not read slashdot... wait...
Interoperability and market dominance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interoperability and market dominance (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the free market is just that - people acting freely and spending their money however they want. 'It' has no free will, nor does it act in any certain way. People acting freely will make good and bad choices (btw, who defines what is good and bad?) - some people will buy Hondas and Toyotas, others will buy *some bad car*.
The trouble starts when someone says "oh my, people are spending their money on X, which is clearly bad. Let us regulate these imbeciles."
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I want to be able to buy different components from different vendors. I don't want to have to buy a new computer just because I want to buy a new set-top box that only works with Windows. Giv
There is... another... (Score:5, Interesting)
TFA is written from a world in which there are two OSes: Windows and Mac. In an ideal world - and I'm fully aware we don't live in an ideal world, but let's move on for now - the rise of the home server would be a boost to Linux, as people finally twigged they were being asked to pay for the same product over and over again when they use Windows, say, and decided to use something else for their home server (which can be more of a "workhorse" than a desktop system, thus circumventing some of the remaining usability issues for desktop Linux).
If Ubuntu have their wits about them, a home server edition of Ubuntu would be their next plan: a single CD which you can drop into an old, spare PC to turn it into a home server without paying the Windows Tax all over again.
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My two year old test... (Score:3, Interesting)
Using that criteria, Linux is absolutely simple. My son could use Ubuntu just fine at the age of 1. Now, being his father, I would love to believe that he is the smartest human being to ever be born, but even if that
Microsoft Home Server (Score:2)
Someone in their marketing department needs to find a better produce name. "Home Server" isn't going to catch on.
Then Sony is well positioned? Or Charter's cable? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then Sony is well positioned? Or Charter's cable offerings?
For the past few decades, I'd say the trend has been to bring toy/home systems into the business. For example, desktop PCs of the '82 vintage eventually became mission-critical servers and the Linux you played Doom on in '93 eventually became a viable business OS. If this keeps up, will we see Nintendo rack-mounts in the server room in 10 years?
Re:Then Sony is well positioned? Or Charter's cabl (Score:5, Funny)
Network Administrator, BOFH, is monitoring the networking from his Nintendo console. The screen gleefully displays the Mii's of all of the network users. LameUser253 tries for the 3rd time to post his personal information on a phishing site despite the warnings.
The Administrator locks onto LameUser253's Mii with the Wii-mote and administers a fierce wacking with the nunchuck.
This
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what in the world... (Score:3, Funny)
"what in the world do I want a server in my home for?"
Newb User: Pretend I'm happenin' (calls his neighbor)
Average user: Check this out (calls Geek Squad)
Super user: I'll be the hit of the party now! (wastes 3 weeks trying to stream a video to his fashionable 98 box)
IT Guy: But will it run Linux?
Home server a commodity? (Score:4, Insightful)
To diagnose problems with a PC, back up user data, reinstall everything, restore user data is still quite a time consuming task. Usually the cost of this task is greater than the worth of a PC.
Will people sign service agreements, such as with HVAC ( heating/AC ) units, or will they die from slow neglect like many PC's. Are people selling their home going to "brag" about the cool server their house comes with, or will they take their server with them when they move?
If the bandwidth to the home ever reaches a critical level, will people even want a server in the home? Would a simple router/switch/local non-hd based cache appliance be all they need?
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Paging Dr. Forbin.. (Score:4, Funny)
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Notnooz (Score:5, Insightful)
I call fluff piece. Weren't we supposed to be vacationing on the moon by now?
could be a win (Score:2)
I built my own (Score:3, Informative)
But then again I'm a geek who does this for a living and wouldn't expect your average home user to do anything even remotely similar.
I think the real truth is the PC manufacturers are scared because the market is saturated and they're trying to come up with new ways to get consumers to buy their shit.
I think I want this to fail.... (Score:3, Funny)
Keep servers out of the home, dammit!
Typical myopia (Score:3, Insightful)
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Microsoct doesn't agree with you. I've been keeping up with the internal information on the Microsoft Home Server product for months now and am exited its finally public.
Based on what I've read, and what anecdotes suggest, the market segment exists.
Think about how many people in the US have more than one computer at home. How many people have wireless at home, or have multiple computer users in their family,
Re:Errr.... (Score:4, Insightful)
It sounds like a made up name I gave to the cops in Mexico once while looking at a black car.
On Topic, I just read the article (it's less than two pages)... Oddly enough, the
I'm really not so sure. You can't even download DVD quality movies off the internet yet, and with ('unrippable') HDDVD or BluRay being the next big thing, it seems even less likely that a computer will be the center of media. Then there's TV shows, which look better ripped off analog cable into a TiVo (which is cheaper than an Apple TV) than bought and paid for from iTMS.
The future of media has already been decided: TiVo and high-resolution optical, not the Media PC.
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You've touched about a topic that isn't covered too well in the article. There are a lot of players, here, and Apple and Microsoft may no