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Nokia Takes Third Swing at Internet Tablet
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Oct 18, 2007 01:32 PM
from the it-dices-it-slices-look-at-that-tomato dept.
from the it-dices-it-slices-look-at-that-tomato dept.
DeviceGuru writes "It looks like Nokia is intent on scoring success with a Linux-powered Internet tablet. The company has unveiled the N810, its third attempt at hitting a home run with the concept. The new model adds a slide-out hardware keyboard, and also a built-in GPS receiver and FM transmitter (for in-car listening), among a number of other enhancements (such as a faster CPU and more memory). At this point, the device is positioned as an email and browsing tool, a social networking aid, a GPS, a VoIP phone, and a multimedia player (and streamer, thanks to built-in WiFi). Will this prove any more successful than the two previous iterations of this offering?"
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Simple Question (Score:5, Funny)
"Will this prove any more successful than the two previous iterations of this offering?"
No.
At this point we need one of those forms that has all the check boxes as to why it will fail, like the one for SPAM.
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If it came with 16 Gb then it would be a worthy IPod Touch rival. I would love one but at $500 I will probably give it a miss.
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Re:Simple Question (Score:4, Informative)
iPhone/iPod Touch have similar application memory quantities.
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Re:Simple Question (Score:5, Informative)
I installed Gaim on my wife's 770 (which came bundled with OS2006), and she's been off and running with the thing for the past three months. She doesn't even know or care how to install software on it, but it works well for her. Chatting with a stylus isn't as nice as with a keyboard, but it beats the heck out of having no IM access at all in many situations.
Me, I fiddled more. :-) I think it's fun running Firefox on my Warp 4 box via VNC from my web tablet while sitting in my living room. :-)
These tablets don't need that much fiddling to be useful. My wife is happy with the bundled Opera browser in hers. I've installed a few more out of curiousity (Minimo 0.2, MicroB, and Links 1.x), but still use Opera for most stuff as well. It isn't bad, and it's lightweight.
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Re:Simple Question (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Simple Question (Score:4, Interesting)
I dunno, the last couple of iterations seem to have been pretty popular...
Personally a big part of the appeal of the device is that it *isn't* a cellphone - PDA type phones are too big to use comfortably as a phone as my old HTC Universal can attest (and I'm not exactly a small guy either)...
Instead its a nice open platform thats small enough to sling in my bag or a jacket pocket and I can pair it up with any phone I like for mobile internet connectivity away from a Wireless AP. Unlike the iPhone I can install the apps I want on a screen wide enough to view most web pages comfortably without needing to horizontally scroll.
Admittedly I'm biased, I was just about to buy an N800 when the rumors of this one broke so am holding out til the N810 is in the wild before I make a decision which one to go for...
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How much battery life does it have? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
WiFi sucks as an area service, it really does. Here in Toronto they tried rolling out WiFi in the downtown core, I subscribed to it for a week just for kicks and see how cool it would be to be online everywhere, and was sorely disappointed. The limited range of even a boosted WiFi antenna means that they need to have a bajillion WAPs just to maintain some semblance of coverage, and in the end signal strength was piss poor overall.
Even at a slow walking pace, I can probably cross through the range of 6-7 r
OLPC and EEE (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's the price (Score:5, Insightful)
I was at Wal-Mart yesterday, and they had Windows Vista notebooks for $300.
It's the same problem that ALL PDAs have. To make a PDA that has all the functionality you want, they basically have to re-create notebook, but make everything a little slower/suckier to make the device smaller and make the batteries last longer.
It's hard to justify buying any of these devices, as neat as they are. They're just not worth it.
Re:It's the price (Score:4, Funny)
After all, what is a notebook computer? Why, it's just a re-creation of a desktop computer, but slower and suckier. Who would ever buy such a thing?
I confidently predict that notebooks will be phased out in the next three years, due to sheer lack of demand for them.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I love my N800 ($400 when I bought it), which does a lot without having to carry a 3kg laptop.
For instance:
0. Access the web at 800 pixels using Firefox w/Gecko(runs Javascript just like ur other box)
1. SSH into the web servers i manage.
2. 8GB of music (though it can hold 16GB)
3. email, skype
4. write python and mono programs
5. Watch videos
With the 810 (another $100), you get GPS, a new proc etc.
So depending on how you use it - it could be
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or maybe, with the GPS, navigation software, camera, and the fact that it weights roughly 200 grams and fits in your pocket, it could be that the N810 isn't really competing with the Wal-mart notebook at all.
Best Spin Ever (Score:4, Insightful)
-That's- what's wrong with tech today. Our irresponsible focus on miniaturization has removed all the -value-.
Re:Best Spin Ever (Score:5, Informative)
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GAH! (Score:2)
Why is this an important niche? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why is this an important niche? (Score:5, Informative)
It's not about web browsing while traveling. Sure, it does come in handy there (or any number of places around the house).
It's not about a lot of things.
At home, I have more Core 2 Duo with two big LCD screens and all kinds of fun and power. At work, I have a desktop computer that gets the job done. But these are all computers where you have to be seated, paying attention to the device. Even laptops are that way: they're designed for you to be sitting in front of them, looking at the screen.
There's plenty of things I do that involve using a computer, but in a secondary way:
VoIP is one. If I can hook up a headset and drop the unit in my pocket (something the 810 will be better at), that's far better than sitting in front of the computer to take calls, and it's cheaper than a cellphone.
Another is when I'm working with other people on a project. It's useful to have the internet, and a host of stored documents, on hand. If I want to show someone something, I hand them the tablet.
Or yeah, checking slashdot from bed helps.
GPS and the internet in a portable package means I can download Google Maps and Google Satellite tiles, and, when I'm out hiking, call up a satellite photograph of the area, which provides far more information than a standard GPS navigation unit.
For me, the 800 and a keyboard is a good laptop replacement. When I'm traveling, most of my tasks don't require more of a computer now than what I had ten years ago. My last laptop weighed over 10 pounds (with power brick), so every time I go on the road, I am a happy man.
And the 810 supports a bunch of video formats on that 800x480 screen, so I'm sure it's a great porn device as well.
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The role of my Nokia Internet Tablet (Score:3, Interesting)
I have three machines at home: A PC that I almost never use, a dual-boot MacBook and a server for media (and, as it turns out, UPnP music streaming.)
The 770, which is a dated, slow version of the N800 which is now a dated, slower version of the N810 constantly amazes me. I'm not using it as I had intended, but I'm using it a lot.
For starters, because I already had a UPnP server runni
Re:Why is this an important niche? (Score:5, Informative)
I work at Nokia and although I cannot speak on behalf of my employer (i.e. disclaimer applies) I can say that n770 and n800 have been a huge success in the market. These devices have literally been flying from the shelves since we started shipping them. The thing went absolutely viral despite us not spending that much effort on marketing them initially. The people buying these devices are a mixed bag of people but a substantial amount of them appear to be linux enthusiasts who get from Nokia something that they cannot really get from anyone else currently: a hackable, mobile linux based device with a well supported and really broad development community. Sure there's lots of other mobile linux devices on the market but they pretty much all suck because they've been locked down or because they are unstable or because they have very mediocre hardware. This sounds like it is a handful of people but actually world wide we are talking about a quite large group of people.
For example I interact a lot with researchers in the academic world and for them this series of internet tablets is hugely popular due to fact that it so damn easy for them to implement their research prototypes on them (e.g. ubiquitous computing related research). They're ordering them by the dozens. Of course there are also lots of people who are just pretty happy with the included features and don't actually bother to install extra software. And of course, with the right applications installed, it's also a pretty good enterprise device. Installing those is easy, just use apt-get install or the nice packagemanager or just click on the package in the browser.
As for quality and battery life. I've been using this N800 for several months now. If you use it non stop, it will last you only 4 hours or so. On the other hand unless you use it to watch a movie, you are more likely to just occasionally use it for a few minutes at the time. In that case it can actually last a few days easily. For example, I routinely leave the device on my desk with an open shh connection to it and come back in the morning to find that it is still running fine and has plenty of juice left to make it through another day of testing my software on it. Bottom line is that power management works pretty well on the device. Quality of the software is also pretty good. Major improvements were made to the WLAN in subsequent firmware releases and it is now a lot more stable and power efficient than with earlier releases. Developing on it means I install lots of experimental stuff on the device. Despite this, I can't actually recall the thing resetting or kernel panicking.
To get back to why this niche is important. I can't say why but obviously a lot of companies besides Nokia have become interested in developing n800 like tablets. For example intel seems to bet on this with their maemo derived linux platform. Also the openmoko people are sharing a lot of code with maemo. Apple seems interested in pushing this formfactor a bit further and MS has been pushing pda like phones for years now. There's plenty of tablet like products headed for the market and N810 is some of the better ones currently available.
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number keys (Score:2)
I really like separate number buttons. On a computer, where one uses numbers frequently... especially a phone-type device which involves dates.... hitting the fn button all the time is silly!
Bonus points for the sidekick designers, who even had a separate key for t
no thanks, I'll take an eee..... (Score:3, Insightful)
more power, more traditional format, proper keyboard/mouse, ok its bigger but its much smaller then a real laptop - and you can work on office documents and actually do something approaching tasks on it. now thats a toy I'm really thinking of getting....
http://www.itweek.co.uk/personal-computer-world/news/2192000/199-asus-ultra-mobile-uk-soon [itweek.co.uk]
Nice (Score:5, Interesting)
This new device looks like a larger version of my cell phone, the Nokia 9300 [wikipedia.org]. The problem with the 9300 is that it doesn't run Linux. The N810 does.
There are a lot of people who want an affordably-priced UMPC. I think Nokia is going in the right direction with this. Eventually, they will market it (or the a later version) as a UMPC, but they are adding features incrementally, and not pretending that it is anything special... yet.
why is it SMALLER??? (Score:3, Insightful)
full size tablet notebooks fail because they are too large. PDA "tablets" fail because they're too small..
This N810 device has REALLY NICE specs considering.. It's a handy tool for folks like me who already have 3 notebooks, like to have [access to] one wherever I go, but it's not practical to take a notebook everywhere [without looking like a tool]. The N800 has always been attractive, because of it's swissarmyknife like features, but it was impractical to me without a keyboard and some size [ssh anyone?].. now the N810 is coming, and it's got a KEYBOARD, and even BETTER features, but it's !@$#%@#$% SMALLER!??!?!?!
I hate you Nokia; you've invented a wonderful, very attractvive information tool that does nearly everything I could think to ask for in a tablet (except maybe some nice USB master ports) and you've wrapped it complete fail!
It's N800 plus. Not faster. (Score:5, Insightful)
Same CPU, not a faster one, so the post is flawed.
It's N800 + GPS + smaller form factor + slideable backlit QWERTY keyboard + better positioned camera and new version of the debian-based OS.
It's NOT a phone. Phones that big would suck anyway. You use WLAN in cities, in public places, you use your existing phone with GPRS/edge/3G via bluetooth elsewhere. This was one of the wisest decisions Nokia made: I have gone through 3 phones in my 8 months of N800 use.
Compromises are compromises. Phones must be cheap, small, handy, with LONG battery time. Anything with a big screen won't do. Anything with a big form factor won't do. The iPhone is far too large.
I don't have N810 yet, I'll just sum up what the N800 (similar machine) is good for: irc (xterm, irssi, etc), movies (mplayer), remote use (SSH, telnet, VNC, RDP), plain old surfing, car GPS.
On top of that N810 has optimized flash that supposedly runs youtube vids at acceptable speed. OS2007 version failed at this, youtube worked, but too slowly.
iPhone runs on proprietary OS, with a real SDK coming out next year. The Maemo platform is now 2-3 years old, well understood and readily available. N800/N810 even have python bindings for most things :-)
Re:It's N800 plus. Not faster. (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html [nseries.com]
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Re:It's N800 plus. Not faster. (Score:5, Informative)
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My prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
One neat thing that will happen is early-adopters will start to do more cool home-automation stuff. Once all the devices in your home have built-in web-based control panels, every iPhone and iPod touch will become the ultimate universal remote. I'm not saying I'll pick it up every time I want to change the channel, but there are lots of other cool things I have in mind--lighting, security, etc. I'm in the midst of hooking up a security camera system at home that will feed into a Mac mini which will serve out the cameras' pictures like a webcam--so with my iPhone, I'll be able to check on my house at any time from anywhere. I'm hardly the first person to do this, but the main reason I am doing it is because I now have with me a small device that I can see the pics with at any time--at work, on the road, on vacation, with or without WiFi access.
* note to Nokia fans,anyone who thinks a 320x480 screen is too small, and anyone else who doesn't like the iPhone--I'm not saying it'll be the best web tablet, just the most common. My personal belief is that the iPhone's shrink-zoom-pan mode of web browsing is an inelegant workaround and I'd love more pixels. That said, it does do the job OK. And when looking at sites optimized for the small screen, it's great to have a device that is so physically small.
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1) check the link in my
Social networking aid? (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdot reaction (Score:5, Insightful)
Here you have a device that is built on the Linux kernel, X.org server, GTK toolkit, GStreamer media framework, supports both open SIP and closed Skype, has a browser derived from Firefox 3.0 that can actually use Firefox plugins and includes Flash 9... if your only reaction is "what's the use?" you must have absolutely no imagination or be totally burned out on tech. The GPS + included Wayfinder software alone makes this device a no-brainer over any TomTom or Garmin in my book, as not only do you get the navigator and the car mount in the box, you also get a kick-ass hackable, pocketable device.
The reception at Engadget/Gizmondo seems to have been positive across the board. Are they wrong, or is Slashdot just full of bitter and cynical people these days?
my n800 (Score:5, Funny)
Almost perfect. (Score:3, Informative)
I can say this about mine though:
1. It's small enough to fit in my car's glove box (title & registration box...)
2. I can use it to check news, email, SSH into my servers in an emergency...
3. It's quite easy to read web pages on the screen.
4. The on-screen keyboard is relatively easy to use for what it is.
and
5. It's almost perfect for leaving in my car or throwing into my backpack for the times
when I *must* get back online, when I don't really want to lug a notebook computer.
Presumably the new model is faster ans more capable, and it supports Flash video, so I'll buy
one when the current one finally fails. (So far, it's been pretty rugged.)
Re:Knock Knock. Who's there? 2002 (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone has a 320×480 resolution screen. The 810 has 800x480. Anything less than 800 wide is not enough resolution to surf normal pages comfortably, so the iPhone is not even a contender.
And I like that it's not a phone, it means you're not locked into anything.
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Re:Knock Knock. Who's there? 2002 (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Knock Knock. Who's there? 2002 (Score:5, Insightful)
Beyond that, though, there's a healthy open source community and a steady stream of apps. While the overlal interface is indisputably worse than the iPhone's (what isn't?), the form factor is much better for web browsing and other high-resolution widescreen activities. Mine is largely a portable O'Reilly Safari reader at work.
The market for this is the bleeding edge techies that will appreciate the flexibility of a Debian-based system with aptget as the installer. It's not your mom, so yeah, it won't be successful in that sense. As a flagship device for Nokia, though, it's pretty kick-ass.
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Re:Knock Knock. Who's there? 2002 (Score:5, Informative)
An iPhone to me is as good as a paperweight, as I am not an American nor does AT&T offer its service to Canadians. In order for it to even function at all I would need to subscribe to Rogers wireless (the only service in the country with an iPhone-compatible network) then hack the iPhone to get *most* of the functionality--the kind of thing Apple likes to litigate over.
I already HAVE a phone and don't WANT another phone. I don't need a fancy GPS and don't want one. I don't really care if someone thinks I "look like a clown" if I can actually visit web pages and SEE them properly (not on some tiny low-res screen). It isn't supposed to replace a phone and a phone will never replace what it does.
And you also seem to mention that it runs Linux as if that is a bad thing. Who cares if it is Linux? My girlfriend's cellphone is Linux powered and she doesn't even care and didn't even know it was until I told her. what matters more is how it acutally functions, and the iPhone seems to be much more about form than function (it has not buttons with tactile feedback, is locked into one carrier's system, severely restricts third-party apps, is over-priced...not much that seems appealing to me).
There is no way this device will sell as big as a popular cellphone because it isn't filling that need. There is a substantial-enough market, however, for a device equipped with a REAL browser and readable display and a vendor that isn't a control freak. Users from warehouse order selectors and couriers to gadget-crazy hobbyists and hackers could appreciate this thing.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't try to force a triangular peg into a square hole.
bluetooth to your cellphone (Score:3, Informative)
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Re:My assesment (Score:4, Insightful)
Realistically, I don't see how they could have pumped out new models a lot faster. They've done regular and impressive software updates as well, about 2-3 major ones per year, adding google talk, Skype, SIP, etc.
True, the N810 doesn't have a phone. Or multitouch. And the iPhone doesn't have GPS. Or expandable cards. Or openness (yet). Or the resolution. And I'd bet the N810's screen has less color depth. Isn't the iPhone 20 bit, not 16bit?
The two are aimed at different niches. No question, if I wanted the best video or audio player going, I'd get an iPhone. If I wanted a browser or book reader or GPS device, I'd get the Nokia. If I wanted a phone I'd get an iPhone. If I wanted an open computer I'd get the Nokia. etc.
For many of us, the fact that the Nokia isn't a $500 phone tied to a $2000 contract is a big plus. It's exactly what we want. For others, the fact that the iPhone is a nice seamless device is what they want.
I think Nokia's a little premature in talking about going head-to-head with Apple. The N-series is still a bit more hobbyist in my mind. But it's incredibly powerful, open and flexible.
-Holmwood.
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