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Review of Ergonomic Evoluent VerticalMouse 3

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Jun 25, 2007 09:15 AM
from the good-timing-my-wrist-is-throbbing-again dept.
Input Devices
JJJumper writes "CoolTechZone.com reviews Evoluent's VerticalMouse 3 mouse that's touted to be the world's most health conscious, ergonomics friendly mouse in the world. And it's vertical, too, instead of horizontal. The review states, "Unlike other mice, Evoluent's VerticalMouse 3 stands vertical to locate your hand in a handshake position, or where the arm is in 90-degrees form from the tabletop. It even has a small lip at the bottom to prevent your little finger from touching the desk. According to the company, this is the most natural position for the hand to be in and it reduces a magnitude of stress from your hand, wrist and arm. Apparently traditional mice with horizontal statures twist your lower arm and put unnecessary stress on its vital areas. We must admit that getting used to the mouse didn't take too long, even though it was slightly awkward to get used to in the beginning. After all, old habits die hard."
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  • You can pick it up at Amazon [amazon.com] for $60.23. About 20 bucks below retail - not a bad deal.

    That is an affiliate link- if you consider that to be a problem, you don't want to click on it.

    • Re:Looks Nice (Score:4, Informative)

      by Bieeanda (961632) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:23AM (#19635495)
      There's a left-handed version too, for us southpaws, but Amazon's got it for eighty bucks, where the right-handed one is going for sixty. Discrimination, I say!

      • Re:Looks Nice (Score:4, Interesting)

        by stoolpigeon (454276) * <bittercode@gmail> on Monday June 25 2007, @09:36AM (#19635709) Homepage Journal
        Being a lefty is just hard - The Human Solution [thehumansolution.com] has it for less. I am not familiar with them, their level of service, etc. but it looks like they've got the left handed versions for about $70.
         
        I'm fortunate - I write and eat left handed but do just about everything else right handed.
      • Hurray for being a 'bastard' southpaw.

        Left Handed:
        Writing
        Tennis
        Soldering
        Knives
        Spoons

        Right Handed:
        Mice
        Throwing
        Kicking

        Either:
        Forks

        The really weird exception to the rule is FPS... back in my FPS days I would always use my left hand. I think it's because I don't like moving my left hand as much as my left fingers, and FPS I only need minute control over the mouse as I do all movement with the keypad.

        Who knows.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by jimstapleton (999106)
      As another alternative, newegg has one for slightly cheaper ($1 cheaper), but some people might like to know that as well.

    • Looks Nice, but UK buyers get stiffed again (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      > You can pick it up at Amazon for $60.23.

      Whereas on amazon.co.uk, it's 76 *pounds*, or roughly $150.

      Ye flippin' gods...

  • The review seems only to be touting the health benefits of using the mouse, but if it really reduced stress on key parts of your wrist and arm I expect it would be a lot more comfortable, too. The only problem I can forsee is that it wouldn't fit on those roll-out trays that a lot of desks have for your keyboard and mouse, and that's a pretty serious drawback.

    • Seat Position (Score:5, Interesting)

      by OctoberSky (888619) on Monday June 25 2007, @10:00AM (#19636007)
      I, like many office workers, sit in an non-OSHA approved seating position while at work. My chair is at it's lowest height, leaned back as far as it will go, and my arm is not near a 90 degree angle. But I'm damn comfortable. My mouse is pointed at "11:00" because that's how my wrist like it. My brain is trained to understand that forward towards the monitor will lead the mouse pointer diaganol towards the top right of the screen. Moving the mouse diagonaly left/forward, moves the pointer vertically on the screen.

      To compensate for the fact that I don't have a "natural" or "ergonomic" keyboard I have changed my finger position from the standard "asd fjkl;" line up to "cdsa nkl;" my fingers make the "ergonomic" shape.

      They make these things for people who sit "properly" the only problem is that most people don't sit "properly"

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Odin_Tiger (585113)
        I hear ya. Low chair, leaned back, and my mouse sits more like 10:00, tho, and my comfortable finger placement is "a-w-e-f j-i-o-;". I also keep my keyboard far out in front of me, because it lets me rest nearly my entire forearm on the desk, and the mousepad is a little to the right, partway in front of the keyboard (it comes about as far in as the left side of the numpad), so my elbow sits on my chair's armrest and my hand is at the natural height and position it would sit at anyways when I use the mouse
  • I have never experienced any pain or stress, even if I sit at my computer for extended ("unhealthy") periods. Why would you pay an extra buck to get a sketchy guarantee for a healthier wrist? The health effect on your wrist from a regular mouse is probably very minute.

    • Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)

      by LullySing (164221) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:31AM (#19635611) Homepage
      Wait till you get older. People tend to think they're invincible until they get injured ( a past self included) and then suddenly realise just how humanly frail we can be.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Odin_Tiger (585113)
        Fortunately, I'm young but I still know better. Any time I even think my wrist(s) might be getting vaguely kinda-sorta sore, I take it easy on the computer use for a few weeks, switch to mousing left-handed and / or using a trackball (actually easy except for games), change keyboard angle, etc. You don't need extreme solutions like a vertical mouse to keep healthy, you just need to pay attention to your body and take preventative measures as needed.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by louks (1075763)
      IANA Ergonomics Expert, but from a computing standpoint, this is not the best idea for a mouse. With a standard mouse, finer motion control of the mouse is done with the fingertips and wrist, not the hand and arm. With a vertical mouse, you are controlling the cursor by moving the entire arm, including the shoulder. Sure, you eliminate finger arthritis pain, but muscles used for gross motor control are not optimal for pointing to the nearest pixel. I can forsee more shoulder problems and tennis elbow af
    • Your argument sounds like "It's never affected me so therefore it's pointless".

      Bullshit.

      The problem with a normal mouse is that it encourages you to do a lot of sideways movement from your wrist, whereas the correct technique is supposed to be "move your entire forearm to move the mouse".

      I had intense pain in the wrists, but a trackball solved that by changing the joints which do the moving to the fingers - which are designed to move around all day in many more directions than the wrist is. I'd expect that
    • He doesn't experience much pain or discomfort, but then it hits him. Your wrist/hand may not be complaining now, but may in time, eventually have some problems.
      A mouse tends to keep a wrist at its full pronation (hand down) - which is not a normal thing. Anything that stresses a joint at its limit is morelikely to cause problems.

  • Perific (Score:4, Interesting)

    by richie2000 (159732) <rickard.olsson@gmail.com> on Monday June 25 2007, @09:29AM (#19635581) Homepage Journal
    The Evoluent looks good, but it's still only usable in one single position as far as I can tell from the write-up. Even though this is a better and more natural position than regular mice, I'd rather use a mouse that promotes changes in posture, like this one: http://www.perific.com/products/ [perific.com]

  • ExtremeTech has a review as well... (Score:5, Informative)

    by puppetman (131489) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:29AM (#19635583) Homepage
    right here. [extremetech.com]

    They seemed to like it as well.

    • This Mouse is not good it made my problem worse (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2007, @09:53AM (#19635915)
      This Mouse is not good it made my problem worse.

      I have problems with my right hand and I have tried every ergonomic mouse that I could get my hands on. The best mouse I have found is the 3M Ergonomic Mouse
      http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergono mics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/ [3m.com]

      I do a lot of cad work and my wrist started hurting even though I was using a Logitech ergonomic mouse. I knew I needed to get a mouse that was vertical. I tried many mice and ended up using the Evoluent Vertical Mouse. My wrist stopped hurting but after two weeks the tendons on the back of my hand started hurting. I think it was because the scroll wheel on the Evoluent Vertical Mouse is too close and you end up bending your fingers a lot to use it. Before the Evoluent mouse my hand tendons were fine and after they started hurting. The tendon problem is worse then the original wrist problem and it still plagues me so I am pretty annoyed about that.
      The mouse I use now is the 3M Ergonomic Mouse and it is really nice. The only problem is that it has no scroll wheel (that is why I didn't use it in the first place). I will gladly give up the scroll wheel for no pain in my hand.

      Wish I didn't have this problem.
      • You can get a keyboard with a scroll wheel on the left side.
      • i had an easier solution - just switched to a digitizer. added bonus is that the colleagues stopped to use my workstation when i was away.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Half-pint HAL (718102)

        Scroll-wheels are bad for you. Full stop.

        Basically, wherever it is, you have to lift your finger and bend it. Your fingers are only controlled by two main muscles -- one bends, one straightens. To lift your finger you need to use the "straighten" muscle (extensor), and to bend you're using the opposing muscle (flexor). this means you're fighting with yourself and putting more tension on the tendons.

        People keep trying to fix problems by making more fancy mice, but in the end, a decent keyboard interface ca

  • Link (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mockylock (1087585) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:32AM (#19635623) Homepage
    Link seems to be getting crushed at the moment. Here's an alternate.

    http://www.evoluent.com/

  • no wireless = no VM (Score:3, Informative)

    by illegalcortex (1007791) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:34AM (#19635665)
    I used to use the VM2, but their failure to produce a wireless model has kept my Logitech G7 firmly in hand. I've found that using the Kinesis keyboard has been sufficient to reduce all of my hand pain.
  • it seems to me that a lot of the problem it the whole scoot scoot scoot scoot factor so a properly calibrated joystick would fix that (since everything turns to absolute positions)
    but nobody has done a Joystick as a mouse driver (okay it would blow the pacman factor into hyperspace but...) heck your emacs fans could work the airplane pedals in.
    • The 3-M ergonomic mouse [amazon.com] looks like a joystick - but isn't. You still have to move it around like a regular mouse. I think the thing is, they are trying to keep the wrist as immobile as possible and have the motion come from the arm. A joystick doesn't accomplish that goal.
    • I was thinking about this during a spell of RSI years ago and came up with this (weegie) [sourceforge.net]. It's almost usable, at least to the kind of person who'd consider learning Dvorak or a Twiddler. I'd love it if someone could figure out something better than our current keyboard/mouse arrangement.

  • Shouldn't be too hard... (Score:5, Funny)

    by niceone (992278) * on Monday June 25 2007, @09:39AM (#19635749) Journal
    Shouldn't be too hard to convert a regular optical mouse to do this. I think all you'd need was a hammer and some duct tape. But you could say that about most things I suppose.

  • EM500 from 3M (Score:3, Informative)

    by bmw (115903) * on Monday June 25 2007, @09:40AM (#19635765)
    I recently discovered this other ergonomic mouse from 3M that has really saved my wrists. It's not the greatest mouse in the world (wish Logitech would buy the design) but the benefit to my health has been amazing. I was beginning to have lots of wrist pain when using a normal mouse and switching to one of these permanently alleviated any pain I was having. I highly recommend either this or the mouse featured in the posted article. This "handshake position" is really how we should have been using mice all along.

    http://www.airtech.net/3mermousnewv.html [airtech.net]
    • Yep, I mine saved me too, along with the 60-day transition to DVORAK key mapping.

      The main benefit that I see is that all the motion comes from your upper arm and shoulder, not from your wrist.

      http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergono mics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/ [3m.com]

      • The main benefit that I see is that all the motion comes from your upper arm and shoulder, not from your wrist.

        Yeah, that definitely helps. I also found that a large part of it (for me) was just the position of my wrist. Even without movement I found that if I held my hand/wrist in the position you would use for a normal mouse then I would feel quite a bit of tension in my wrist. If I turned my wrist to the handshake position I found that the tension would go away. For most people this is probably not somet

  • The 9 word CmdrTaco review... (Score:4, Funny)

    by WIAKywbfatw (307557) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:42AM (#19635791) Journal
    "No wireless. Fewer buttons than a Logitech MX610. Lame."
  • I have one. Chevron recommends them to their employees. Personally I like it; however I have to be very careful with it or the edge of my hand will rest on the table as I move the mouse around. I do not have very big hands and I suspect that people that do would have a problem. Basically it needs to be a little taller

  • YANVM: Yet Another Vertical Mouse (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Drogo007 (923906) on Monday June 25 2007, @09:57AM (#19635959)
    Like these:

    http://www.ergo-items.com/3m_ergonomic_mouse.htm [ergo-items.com]

    http://www.ergo-items.com/quillMouse.htm [ergo-items.com]

    http://www.ergo-items.com/zero_tension_mouse.htm [ergo-items.com]

    Not to mention the mouse we used to call "Richard Mouse" back in the day (about 10 years ago) when I was just getting my start in the gaming industry and the place I worked bought an "ergonomic" mouse that operated on these principles so we could test it with our game.
  • I knew a guy who had a similar mouse called the "quill mouse" (I think). He found it comfortable, and I tried it a few times, but the problem I has was that the mouse would move to the left as you pressed the buttons. Hard to be really accurate when you're pushing the mouse to the left just to click a button.
  • I remember trying out a foot-pedal mouse a few years back at Comdex. IIRC, the left foot tilt forward and backwards was left and right click, and the right foot on a 360 rocker was the mouse control. It was extremely easy and accurate, although probably not fast enough for gaming. But paired with a regular handheld mouse, was highly useful. Without the handheld, it meant you could operate the interface without taking your hands off the keyboard. I don't remember who made it.
  • ... and I love the thing. I use (the left-hand model) with my Kinesis keyboard [kinesis-ergo.com], and for the first time in my life i haven't had those annoying pains when at the computer for long time.

    Kinesis (I think) will actually let you try the mouse for a while and then return it (money-back satisfaction guarantee) although there's a possibility that it's just for thei keyboards (although I thought it included the mouse also) -- might be worth paying the little extra than you can get it for elsewhere. J&R [jr.com] was the

  • I just tested it! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rehtonAesoohC (954490) on Monday June 25 2007, @10:03AM (#19636037) Journal
    Well, ok, it was only in my mind, but that counts, right?

    Actually, I just turned my normal mouse on its side and started moving it around seeing how it would feel if it actually worked that way... To be honest, it was a bit more comfortable on my wrist, but I realized that I would lose an important function of the traditional orientation.

    How many people use their fingers to move the mouse around? I know I do on occasion... When I'm making fine adjustments to my pointer, I don't move my whole wrist, I move my fingers only, and that reason alone keeps me from buying the vertical mouse. With your hand in the handshake position, you won't be able to move the mouse with your fingers, and won't get the same fine-grained control as you would with fingers.

    Also, their "expert opinions" note on the article seems a bit flaky:

    Some doctors who specialize in ergonomics consider the vertical position preferable.


    Some doctors? It just seems like some doctor with a degree held one and said, "Yeah that feels a bit better." They made no mention of a medical reason to use one over any other mouse, they simply said, "It might feel a little better."

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by sewiv (171989)
      I use my thumb and pinky to move my evoluent most of the time, actually. It's very easy to do, and very precise.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by vux984 (928602)
      Some doctors? It just seems like some doctor with a degree held one and said, "Yeah that feels a bit better." They made no mention of a medical reason to use one over any other mouse, they simply said, "It might feel a little better."

      I completely agree with your post overall. However, you implied a question about why the vertical vs horizontal has a medical basis:

      http://www.evoluent.com/vm3.html [evoluent.com]

      The skeletal picture illustrates the idea fairly well.

      Or stand up, and let your arms fall to your sides, the natur
  • Note that the only supported drivers for this mouse (and its predecessor) are for 32-bit XP and Vista. (See the driver download page at http://www.evoluent.com/download.htm [evoluent.com].) The site links to a "freeware" driver provided by somebody else, but it had enough issues that I had to uninstall it.

    I own an Evoluent VerticalMouse 2, which became an $80 paperweight after my work OS became WinXP x64. Evoluent's support told me that no 64-bit driver was forthcoming.

  • The VM3 is two-toned, with the palm side of the mouse coated with a rubber-like substance for a better grip, and the other half sporting a glossy, almost grainy surface.

    Put a racing stripe on that baby and I'm sold!

  • A work college of mine had a similar thing, was basically a broken joystick that slid around the table. It was infuriating to use, but whatever gets you off I guess... This thing looks like a poor rip off.
  • No matter what you do, there is no part of the human body that doesn't suffer when repetitive activity occurs for any amount of time. It mystifies me that people believe that changing positions or movements will change anything over the long term. Even if we could "think" at our computers to operate them, we'd still end up with some form of stress disorder. It has been shown that people who use voice recognition systems ALSO suffer from "RSD." How ridiculous is that? And I don't think it would be a str
    • A few years ago, I had exactly this problem.

      This is the UK, where we supposedly have strong health and safety legislation. My employer's compliance department looked carefully at their legal requirements, concluded that all they had to do was "recommend I see my doctor" and they were off the hook. Even if my doctor said "I can't help you, you'll have to speak to on a private basis" - tough.

      Fortunately, my line manager (and his line manager) had rather more sense than that. They were nice enough to pay f

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by CastrTroy (595695)
      I find it odd that after such a long time you could not get used to the devices. I have been using trackballs for the last 5 years. I remember when I got my first one, it took a few days, maybe a week to get used to, and then I was done. Since I've had a couple different trackballs, and don't have any problem using them. I find trackballs are the best, because you can put them in the right position, and they stay there. Also, I find it a lot easier to just move my thumb or fingers (depending on the tra
      • Fully second this.

        The Logitech TrackMan Wheel was single best thing I've bought in the last 5 years or so.

        While the new vertical mouse looks like a good idea, it doesn't look that revolutionary if you compare it with a normal trackball. Two more buttons, a taller design and well the "two-handed mode", which I can't think of using too often. In most cases I hate to move one hand to the trackball and therefore away from the keyboard. So I can't think of too many situations where I will like to move *both* han

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