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Intel Viiv vs. AMD LIVE!

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:52 PM
from the boxing-match dept.
AMD Intel Hardware
Searching4Sasquatch writes "Hot Hardware has tested two nearly identical HP systems in an effort to determine the best solution between Intel's Viiv and AMD's LIVE! campaigns. Priced around $999, these general purpose systems are tested straight out of the box with no tweaking or refinement to illustrate how "Joe Consumer" would fare in using one of these platforms."
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Intel Viiv vs. AMD LIVE! 50 Comments More /

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  • pre-load software crap (Score:5, Interesting)

    by networkBoy (774728) on Monday March 12 2007, @12:53PM (#18319191) Homepage Journal
    It's all about the pre-loaded crap. I've wiped and re-installed systems without the pre-installed crap and they are at least 10% faster than factory builds.
    -nB

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tsu Dho Nimh (663417)
      And that's the WHOLE POINT, Network Boy. Joe Consumer doesn't have your l33t hax0r skilz, so he brings it home and turns it on and expects things to work.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        and why wouldn't you think that these OEM's would have an interest in their systems performing better for Joe Consumer?

        I just don't understand this - nobody is asking for slower, less reliable systems yet that is exactly what all the crapware that OEM's install on their systems provide! This isn't restricted to HP; Dell and Gateway do the same damned thing. Worse yet, uninstalling any of this crap is never an option when you call about poorly performing, crashing systems, noooo, the first thing they make yo

        • Re:pre-load software crap (Score:4, Interesting)

          by dal20402 (895630) * <dal20402@mac . c om> on Monday March 12 2007, @02:51PM (#18321357) Journal

          Not true anymore. Now, you get trial versions of all of Pages, Keynote, and MS Office, and no AppleWorks (which never made the transition to Intel). I suppose trial versions are OK, in that Joe Consumer can follow easy instructions to pay more to unlock them, but I agree a consumer machine ought to have word processing -- probably the #2 consumer application for PCs after the series of tubes -- out of the box.

          On a Mac, TextEdit is a surprisingly fast and capable little word processor for stuff like letters, grade-school papers, etc. that might be written in Joe Consumer's household. I'm a power user, and, honestly, the only time I exceed the capabilities of TextEdit in word processing is when I'm doing academic writing or some kind of page-layout-ish stuff. The interface is rather reminiscent, in a good way, of MacWrite in 1984. TextEdit is way more capable as a basic word processor than it is as a text editor.

          Of course, we could always suggest that non-Mac consumer machines really ought to come with the default install of Ubuntu, which has OO.o installed... /ducks

        • Microsoft Works is one of the affore-mentioned applications installed by the OEMs. Not all of them do, but most PCs categorized as 'Home/Personal' come with it in my experience.
          • Can anyone explain to me the reasonable justification for making the file formats used by works and word/excel incompatible? To this day works can't open word docs and word can't open works. If someone starts using works and later finds they need word they effectively lose all their data.
    • That's understating. When my Compaq V2000 arrived it was absolutely fettered with junk that filled nearly 20 gigs of the HD. A smooth reinstallation--careful to update drivers and not actually run vendor installs which often dump on the crapware--had the XP install to around 2 gigs and system performance was much more responsive. Not that the responsiveness of the XP install was the main point. The main point was to take back the HD space for LFS [linuxfromscratch.org] and Debian [debian.org].
    • Hot Hardware doesn't allow linking to the printable version, which you would have known had you checked your link before posting.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510)
        Works for me.

        Perhaps it is because of refcontrol. [stardrifter.org]
        • That would certainly change the situation a bit. Thanks for the link.
        • BTW, if you have the WebDeveloper plugin installed (pretty darn useful) it also lets you disable the referer (in the "Disable" menu). You can also turn of JavaScript temporarily, enable auto-completion when it's disabled, and oh so much more.
  • I don't think these multimedia solutions are being marketed very well by either Intel or AMD. I have heard of Viiv for quite a while, but while I have seen the name in various places, I have only ever seen vague descriptions of its capabilities. As for LIVE!, it must be really new or really obscure - this is the first time I have seen that name. Perhaps the OEMs aren't getting the point across.
  • Or rather, Intel give it to them... at the moment they called their platform Viiv :-/
    That must be the worst product name in history along with Nintendo's Wii (great console but what was smoking the guy who named it)

    • (great console but what was smoking the guy who named it)
      Maybe the intern under the desk?

    • Nintendo's Wii (great console but what was smoking the guy who named it)
      dunno, but it sounds like you suspect it was from Soviet Russia?
    • Wii:
      Your name is Willy. Your Mii's name is Wiilly! (Or anything that is Wi-, -ey, -ee, -i-, etc.)
      Wiimote.
      Wiibrator.
      I wiish I had a Wii.
      The double "i" logo possibilities.

      The variations are endless. The fun never stops. Don't think this is funny? The Wii may not be for you.

      Revolution:
      Stupid marketing name.
      It's not a revolution at all.
      Trying to fit in with the "serious gamer" crowd.

      (Can this post get even more off topic?)

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Kazrael (918535)
      Actually, the simple fact that you pointed out the Wii implies that this marketing tactic has worked. What a cheap way to generate interest than having geeks across the world fighting how to pronounce it if they read it, how to spell it if they hear it, and how dumb of a name it is in general. You may think it is dumb, but I guarantee that was a great choice of a name for the console.

    • Nintendo's Wii (great console but what was smoking the guy who named it)
      Wiid!

  • Quick summary (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chainsaw (2302) <czw@hom e . se> on Monday March 12 2007, @01:04PM (#18319359) Homepage
    Intel Viiv: A multimedia solution.
    AMD LIVE!: A MULTIMEDIA SOLUTION WITH A BROKEN CAPS LOCK ROFL LOL!!!!1!!one!

    And to get around the lameness filter (please ignore) - I fear hedgehogs. The little bastards are everywhere, just waiting to kill med as soon as I set foot outside of the basement that my mother locks me in every evening.
  • GeForce 6150LE is lot better then gma 950 but for $999 you should get a real video card.

  • Summary (Score:4, Informative)

    by bogie (31020) on Monday March 12 2007, @01:05PM (#18319391) Journal
    The AMD system was cheaper, performed better overall and had a more complex set of qualifications in order to receive the "AMD Live" certification. Yawn, this really was not a very interesting comparison. Anyway CableCards, DRM, and cheap cable company DVR's that have room to grow are going to be the death of HTPC's so I wouldn't go spending a bucket load of cash on one right now.

    • The article was a rather long read with very little useful information in the end. The differences highlighted had far more to do with the video subsystem employed by the boxen than it did with CPU, memory, or any other factors that differed between the systems. Despite being "latest generation" hardware, some of the tests would not even run.

      Thumbs down on both for promoting "multimedia" PC capabilities without handling video cadence properly.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Umbrel (1040414)
        Agree, besides they call AMD the winner because the specs are tighter just to go ahead a said than you can get a better Intel system if you don't restrict to the minimun Viiv ask...
        So basically their are saying Intel can do better if you paid more... that is not an impresive review.
        AMD had better performance/price ratio though.
  • Is it just me or do AMD/MS get together and do marketing?

    Windows XP / Athlon XP
    Athlon 64 / Windows XP 64 (to be fair, Alpha/Itanium were 64 bit chips but Windows never sported the name....)

    The newest thing now? Live mail and Live search from Microsoft. So what's AMD gonna call their stuff? AMD Live! That's right kids.
    • AMD simply capitalizes on the marketting microsoft does - and hardly do any of their own. This is nothing new. People attach a buzzword that someone else worked to make popular to their products all the time, think "XTreme".

      Your average schmo just sees "Athlon XP" on the card at best buy, and thinks it "runs windows better". It's smart marketing on AMD's part.
  • The HP a1630n has one interesting feature that wasn't documented -- it has a hardware firewall due to the nVidia chipset on the built in Ethernet port, and it works pretty well, as I've not had any issues with it so far with gaming (MMOs, some RTS games) and other general use. I have read some people have had trouble with it, but so far, its been a great addition.

    One side note. The AMD Live! device works with Windows XP MCE and Vista, but Windows XP Pro doesn't support it.
    • I just put together a dual processor/dual core AMD 64 system that has that chip set. Thursday night the hardware firewall feature decided to disable all net access. It let the box get an IP address from the router, but that was it. Everything else (local network and internet) was completely blocked. I spent a couple of hours messing with it, reinstalling drivers, etc, before giving up and calling a friend that is a Windows expert (it's a dual boot system). He spent a couple of hours messing with it and
        • I couldn't find any option to do that. I could completely enable the nic, or completely disable it. Stupid, yes.
  • ... because the AMD system reviewed here is rather overpriced.

    I just bought an HP m7750n with identical specs and a 5200+ processor (as opposed to 4600+ for the reviewed model) processor for $950. And that's before the mail in rebate and such. And yes, it is "Live" certified (whatever that means).

    After a few aftermarket upgrades, these machines are excellent performers, although they are somewhat limited in terms of expansion oportunities. Great for reformatting and installing linux too... although I haven'
  • It seems that neither AMD nor Intel has done a terribly good job at telling us what exactly LIVE! or Viiv are all about. I mean, most of us know it has something to do with being a HTPC and that there should be some kind of home theater goodies on-board, but what exactly are they? I'm seriously having flashbacks to the MPC spec of 15 years ago that so many PC manufacturers and software publishers passed around without explaining what the heck it meant. Making up new branding like this is pretty much worthl
  • These days, all I hear is stuff about power consumption of various electronic equipment, stand-by mode or not. Not having the power consumption in a Joe Consumer article sounds pretty useless to me.

  • Why? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dreamchaser (49529) on Monday March 12 2007, @04:10PM (#18322577) Homepage Journal
    Why would someone take two relatively low cost media center PC's then proceed to test them using benchmarks designed to test gaming PC's? There were really only two tests that even came close to addressing the purpose of these boxen; the burning speed test and the DVD quality test.

    The methodology behind this review is horrible.
    • It has been quite a while since you have been able to piece together a system for cheaper than a prebuilt one.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Seumas (6865)
        Exactly. Only the total opposite of what you just said.

        Seriously, building your own system to your precise spec and under your complete control with OEM parts will get you a far superior system to anything you can waste your money on from some douchebag pre-built company. I keep checking them out in case things change, but in almost twenty years, I have still never found any cause to buy a pre-built system unless it was a laptop.
        • Where do you get OEM parts in retail quantities?

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Seumas (6865)
            You mean one at a time? You can get single OEM parts everywhere. If you have a non-chain computer store in your town (like Enu, in Portland) you can usually get them there. Or via newegg. Or through outlets on pricewatch.

            Not every part is going to be available as an OEM, but it's certainly possible to get drives, RAM, CPUs, video cards and audio cards. Not to mention, you simply don't get exactly what you want from a pre-built. I put my latest system into a rather awesome Cooler Master 832 chassis. Granted,
        • Sorry but that's completely wrong - at least in the UK. For several years now it's been possible for a shrewd buyer of pre-made systems to get a much better deal than buying the components separately. Sure, if you just buy the first PC you see an advert for you may get a peice of overpriced crap. But take a look around and there are some damn good deals to be had. Maybe you could get cheaper parts if you really take the time to look around second-hand stores and ebay etc. But that adds so much time and addi

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Znork (31774)
            "shrewd buyer of pre-made systems to get a much better deal"

            Take a look around for the cheapest-ass components you can find (the ones you wouldnt actually buy), and you'll find you get about the same price as Dell prebuilts. And they often appear to use those same cheap-ass components in their low-end systems (in fact, look at the low end pre-made systems and often you'll find they include components that arent even sold as parts anymore (motherboards without Gbit lan? Are they buying up RMA returns?)).

            I do
            • Yeah the cheapest PCs use the cheapest parts, of course. But I'm saying that for the most part you can get as good or better pricing at just about any point along the scale. I don't know what Dell do, maybe they cheap out every place they can, personally the pre-made systems I'm talking about are from the smaller companies.

              I don't see how upgrading is any different for pre-built vs. self-built. Obviously you should check out the upgradeability of a system in either case, if you fail to do so it's your own f
        • Exactly. Only the total opposite of what you just said.

          For about the price of the case and power supply that I'd spec out for myself, I can pick up an entire computer with monitor and probably a printer at any number of stores. Yes, for less than $400, you can get a decent computer with monitor and printer. I couldn't bring myself to build anything for that little. Anything I'd spec out for myself would cost about $1500 at the cheapest up to about $5000 (not counting any exotic hardware that is out the
      • I think it will still be a while before I'll be able to get a prebuilt system that has exactly what I'm looking for. I've got "prebuilt" systems before with exactly what I wanted, but it is usually just from small retailers, who let you pick anything from their catalog and they will assemble it for you. I was shopping for a computer last year, and couldn't find what I was looking for with any of the major retailers, so I took this route.
      • The prebuilt ones may cost less but you can piece together a system with better parts for a little bit more.
      • No problem doing that. Now, pieceing together a system and making minimum wage after taxes? No way. There's always some odd kind of connector or new screws or your power supply is blocking your CPU fan or your HDD cables are the wrong length or whatnot. You don't do it nearly often enough and usually end up spending most of the evening doing it. The only reason I built my last machine was that it was a half-upgrade, if my computer spontaniously combusted I'd get a prebuilt one in a heartbeat.
      • Most people *I* know do build their own systems for cheaper. Their's no real magic to it: not all components age evenly. My CD burner is fine, about as fast as anything else and is about 3 or more years old. When I upgrade my system I do it in stages. My main drive is a WD Raptor. It's still about as fast as anything you're going to get, so again I can save a little money until I decide to get a SATA2 drive. You see a pattern? Building a new system from scratch might cost you a little more, but I'd assume i
        • So, as long as you start with a free computer, buying a new computer (counting changing a case screw in the existing computer as "all new") is cheap.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by drinkypoo (153816)
      Except they're both Dual Core systems. It's the AMD Athlon 64 X2.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by hattig (47930)
      The fact is the Intel platform exhibited rendering errors, and didn't even run some games. This is despite being on their recent G965 chipset. It also had poor image quality (although the nVidia chipset didn't do that much better, AMD do have the ATI chipsets which get very good scores in HQV) and Intel really should be chastised for selling a media brand with such abysmal performance. It was also $100 cheaper - you can get a fairly decent graphics card for that money, or a CPU upgrade to make up for the sl

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