Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Novel OS Drives the '$100 laptop'

Posted by Zonk on Thu Jan 04, 2007 06:36 PM
from the not-novell dept.
jrwr00 writes with a link to a CNN story about the $100 laptop's unique operating system. We've discussed the OLPC's UI before but the article offers a few new piece of information on the project, which is expected to roll out this year. From the article: "The XO machines are still being tweaked, and [OLPC UI] Sugar isn't expected to be tested by any kids until February. By July or so, several million are expected to reach Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Nigeria, Libya, Pakistan, Thailand and the Palestinian territory. Negroponte said three more African countries might sign on in the next two weeks. The Inter-American Development Bank is trying to get the laptops to multiple Central American countries."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] OLPC Project Interface Revealed 196 comments
BogusToo writes to mention an EE Times article describing the interface for the OLPC project laptop. Using some fairly intuitive UI concepts (like simplified web browsers and a chat client), the Linux-based system attempts to do away with the kludgey parts of computer use. A video demo of the interface has been placed on YouTube. From the article: "Earlier postings around the Internet have also shown how the physical design of the laptop has changed, including the elimination of the much touted on-board hand crank that was supposed to power the cheap, lime green laptop. It's still there, reportedly, but has now been moved to the power adapter. The OLPC's produced earlier this week in Shanghai still need to go through loads of testing, such as knocking them off desks and dropping them in mud, as kids are wont to do. They may also be kicked around, like soccer balls, a popular sport in 99.9 percent of the world."
[+] Technology: A Close(r) Look At OLPC Human Interface Guidelines 152 comments
feranick writes "There have been a lot of articles on Slashdot about the OLPC project, most of them regarding the hardware, the social impact or the cost of the operation itself. However the software development, specifically in the GUI didn't get so far much attention. This blog summarizes some of the OLPC global interface guidelines. You will see that what is really new in the laptop is not the laptop itself, but the completely new idea behind the design, where instead of applications you have activities, documents are now journals, 'application bundles can be signed by whoever works on them — because there is a view source key on the keyboard, anybody can modify an app and distribute it'. It really looks like if this is successfully, we could see a new breakthrough in GUI design also in mainstream PCs: "This UI is quite simply one of the deepest and most interesting redesigns of the desktop user interface ever produced. It makes MacOS look like what it is — boring and unoriginal.""
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Novell OS? Whoops (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dreddnott (555950) <dreddnott@yahoo.com> on Thursday January 04 2007, @06:39PM (#17466914) Homepage
    I read this story on CNN first as well, and my first thought at seeing the headline was nightmares about a Novell operating system.

    In any event, it doesn't really sound particularly novel to me.
    • I read this story on CNN first as well, and my first thought at seeing the headline was nightmares about a Novell operating system.

      Could be worse. I read through the whole article waiting for the point where they'd explain how SuSE was involved. Then I finally looked back at the headline and realized I'd misread it.

    • Re:Novell OS? Whoops (Score:4, Informative)

      by rholliday (754515) on Thursday January 04 2007, @06:47PM (#17467020) Homepage Journal
      Yeah, me too. I don't think "novel" is the best choice of adjectives in the OS world.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:24PM (#17467486)
      Most of Sugar, the OLPC's desktop environment, is written in Python [python.org]. The source is here:
      http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=sugar;a=tree [laptop.org]

      I just tried it out, and I am pleasantly surprised! It's amazing how much faster Python is for desktop applications than Java is. Even when using IBM's SWT for developing Java applications, they still feel far more bloated and slower-responding than OLPC's Python-based GUI applications.

      I would have expected Python to be slower than Java, but apparently that is not the case. It could be that the layers upon layers that make up Swing really slow it down. Maybe it's time for Sun to take a page from OLPC's Sugar project, and develop a UI framework that is fast and easy to use.
      • by Nasarius (593729) on Thursday January 04 2007, @08:06PM (#17467994)
        Sugar apparently uses PyGTK, so all the heavy lifting is done in C. wxPython works the same way, and it's what I write most of my GUI tools with. Even with lots of callbacks into Python code, it still runs fast. It's amazing how much you can do with just a few lines of code and no need to compile.
    • I think I'm tired of all the posts from people who think their own inability to read is extremely funny. And did you bother to (mis)read past the headline? They've invented a new UI metaphor, one that sounds pretty interesting. Novel enough.
      • Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            "it still falls victim to engineered obsolescence"

            How do you know? Have you inspected the hardware?

            I've never understood the concept, really. How does one engineer a product to work properly through the warranty period, but magically fail when it's out of warranty? Certainly, some manufacturers use inexpensive parts when they think they can, and sometimes those parts fail, but it's hard to imagine that's an intended effect.

            Maybe I'm naive.
            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              How does one engineer a product to work properly through the warranty period, but magically fail when it's out of warranty? Certainly, some manufacturers use inexpensive parts when they think they can, and sometimes those parts fail, but it's hard to imagine that's an intended effect.

              What you are describing is not "engineered obsolescence" but "engineered failure," and indeed is hard to imagine manufacturer's doing. Obsolescence != failure.

              Engineered obsolescence means that the manufacturer's product ro

              • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

                So basically, computers should stop getting faster so that you won't feel bad because you bought one?

                Uh, no.

                Computers do not lose capability over time. (Except for Windows machines.)
            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              Forgive me if I use the term 'engineered obsolescence' a bit more broadly than I should have. I don't mean component failure specifically, and certainly not with respect to warranty duration.

              Do you know if this $100 laptop is upgradable? I'm sure that as the lustful fires of consumerism awaken in these nations' loins, they'll want harder, better, faster, stronger laptops that these corporations will be all too happy to *sell* them, as the OLPC simply doesn't meet the gluttonous standards of a modern consume
              • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

                "Do you know if this $100 laptop is upgradable?"

                Do you know that it isn't? Do you know if it needs to be upgradeable? I've got a laptop that's several years old, and I wouldn't even consider upgrading it.

                "I'm sure that as the lustful fires of consumerism awaken in these nations' loins,"

                OK, holy cow. Could we please dial back the rhetoric a little bit?

                "they'll want harder, better, faster, stronger laptops that these corporations will be all too happy to *sell* them"

                Yeah, sell them for $100. And these peo
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                ...they'll want harder, better, faster, stronger laptops that these corporations will be all too happy to *sell* them, as the OLPC simply doesn't meet the gluttonous standards of a modern consumer.

                Oh good God. The point is they can't afford standard consumer electronics as it is. That's what the whole project was about-- provide a low cost computer to people that can't afford current computers. Great insight there. With out a doubt OLPC will soon be trying to sell the latest core 2 duo laptops to the children of Bangladesh. Hell, they'll probably start a new campaign, One Widescreen HD Plasma TV Per Child (OWHDPTVPC), next, just to sucker those unsuspecting s fools in even more.

          • Re:OLPC Sucks (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:35PM (#17467620)
            You and I can do a lot more by donating to charities or 'adopting' a child through a group like World Vision.

            Fuck charity, we need to change the global economy. If you want to help the poor in the third world then don't give them charity unless they are literally starving. If you want to help you should buy what they produce, lobby your government to write off the debt they made them take on and lobby your government to remove trade restrictions. Your country is fucking the third world in the ass and given you live in a democray they are doing it in your name. You need to stop the fucking, not start the giving.

            • Don't you just love posts full of f-words that are 100% right?

              I really hope OLPC project will create a situation when 3rd world countries will be able to produce services that we'll want to buy and won't cost us $0.01 per work hour. I believe OLPC is a huge opportunity.
          • by KlaymenDK (713149) on Friday January 05 2007, @04:05AM (#17470964) Journal

            Personally I think the whole $100 laptop thing is a huge marketing gimmick to prime the populations of third-world countries for consumerism (Linux aside, $100 cost aside, it still falls victim to engineered obsolescence).
            The following would be true for any contraption: the device needs not change if the usage pattern does not. I have a PDA that by current standards are outright archaic, but it fulfills my needs just as perfectly as when it was new. Sure, new products offer more features, but that does not detract from the old product; unless you are made to think the product you have is no longer good enough.

            It is my impression that the whole idea of creating a brand new interface is to escape the eternal upgrade spiral. On the surface, they do away with folders and mainstream OS vendors, but consider how this affects the entire paradigm of computing. In a few years these people will be old enough to work in an office (not saying they will, it's just a possibility), and set me tell you, I think they're not going to *want* to touch Windows, MacOS, or KDE/Gnome with a fire poker -- it's too messy. They won't want to work on their computer, they'll want to work on their *tasks*.

            You and I can do a lot more by donating to charities or 'adopting' a child through a group like World Vision.
            Great! By all means, if you are so inclined, fund and donate all you like! :o) But this is completely separate from the OLPC project. Both are valid options in their own right; it's just that you can't make individual contributions to one of them.

            I used to work for an electronics recycling company, whose business was increasing partially because of SB20 and SB50 and partially because a lot of companies were no longer being allowed to ship their junk computers (many components of which are toxic waste) to third-world countries to be disposed of or scrapped, as opposed to properly recycled stateside, for a fee. We got all kinds of junk, from Dreamworks to Viewsonic, but I couldn't handle the third-world pay anymore.
            I don't know the "SB*0" you mention, but I for one think shipping waste "under the carpet" *should* be regulated, if not avoided altogether.

            I think the "OLPC" is just a first wave in a new corporate strategy to "legitimately" dump difficult-to-dispose-of old hardware and then sell new hardware in developing countries.
            Irrelevant. This has nothing to do with old hardware. The entire concept targets an environment where traditional computer devices would be useless (power, wired networking, harsh conditions, &c).

            As you state in a later post, hardware failures are a different topic; that's mostly a question of build quality and durablity. While it is to a high degree possible for a manufacturer to skimp in this department, and thus encourage more purchases, it's not my impression that the OLPC project has chosen this path -- quite the opposite.
            • In a few years these people will be old enough to work in an office (not saying they will, it's just a possibility), and set me tell you, I think they're not going to *want* to touch Windows, MacOS, or KDE/Gnome with a fire poker -- it's too messy. They won't want to work on their computer, they'll want to work on their *tasks*.

              Given the target audience for OLPC, I predict that long before these kids make it into the workforce, Sugar will be available for Ubuntu, either as an app to run on top of a windowin

      • Then ask Sony to make the batteries for it.
  • by fiannaFailMan (702447) on Thursday January 04 2007, @06:43PM (#17466976) Journal
    From TFA:
    "In fact, one of the saddest but most common conditions in elementary school computer labs (when they exist in the developing world), is the children are being trained to use Word, Excel and PowerPoint," Negroponte wrote in an e-mail interview. "I consider that criminal, because children should be making things, communicating, exploring, sharing, not running office automation tools.
    Go on my son! Kids should be exploring, not training to become the paper-pushers of tomorrow. Computers have so much more to offer than that.
    • Where these kids are, they'll be lucky if they get to be paper pushers. I doubt that kinds in a modern developing third world country have a lot of education that's not vocational.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          Ever been to sub-Saharan Africa? I have. I've seen Massai living in mud-and-cowshit huts out in the middle of the savanna. Everywhere you go, poor kids beg you for pens. Yes, pens, as in Bic. Having simple supplies for writing is a big deal to many people in the world. Maybe his attitude is "Colonial", but it appears to me at least to be based somewhat in reality.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      I agree entirely kids should be using computers to build and develop their imagination, not become fledgling cubicle monkeys

      The $100 laptop hardware may be designed and destined for the 3rd world - but the interface could be put to use anywhere

      Anything which allows kids to explore and extend their imaginations whilst learning should be embraced wholeheartedly.
    • I can agree that it's basically worthless to teach elementary school kids Excel and PowerPoint (or any spreadsheet/slidshow app) ... there's absolutely no reason for an elementary school kid to use either. While there's a small case for PowerPoint (e.g. photo slideshows), the alternatives are far better at fostering creativity.

      Word processing is a different story. I feel that every kid should know how to write, and know the basics for writing in at least one word processing package. I'm not talking we
      • Also, the OLPC has a target audience of 6-16 year olds. Sure, 6 year olds shouldn't be locked in to learning spreadsheets, much less Excel specifically, but, for the upper end of the spectrum, some actual marketable skills for the kids not interested in programming in Scratch or whatever other wonderful things might come out of playing with the OLPC, just might be useful.

  • Quote FTFA (Score:4, Funny)

    by dayid (802168) * <slashdot&dayid,org> on Thursday January 04 2007, @06:45PM (#17467004) Homepage
    "It doesn't feel like Linux. It doesn't feel like Windows. It doesn't feel like Apple," said Vota, who is director of Geekcorps, an organization that facilitates technology volunteers in developing countries. He emphasized that his opinions were his own and not on behalf of Geekcorps. so we have: a) kernel b) operating system c) hardware vendor It doesn't feel like any of those? Wow.
  • Just because I like to repeat myself every time an OLPC story is posted, I'll ask again: Where are the apps for this platform? Can anybody name one app, accessible to end users (e.g., no recompiling required), that is compatible with the Sugar UI, mesh networking, low-end specs, and other unique features?

    A platform exists only to run the apps, not visa-versa. BeOS was a great platform, too. Many excellent gaming platforms have failed, because they lacked apps (i.e., games). Linux desktop is getting now
    • It comes with all the apps kids need to form open and interactive communities, and write applications for their own needs.
    • You're right, but I don't think that this thing was designed to ever do anything beyond what it does out of the box. It's primarily just a chat platform, which is supposed to be useful, somehow...

      I can only imagine that Negropointe envisioned (after his own media attention, of course), that kids on opposing sides of local wars would IM each other and work things out, and that it would later be portrayed in a movie starring Keanu Reeves (playing Negropointe), produced by Jerry Bruckheimer.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Linux desktop is getting nowhere, despite it's technical excellence, because it lacks key apps (i.e., Office).

      Bluh? Is OpenOffice.org that bad on Linux? Admittedly I've only ever used it on Windows and OpenBSD, and can't really compare it to Microsoft Office since I've never actually used that (mostly because I've never had to)...

    • by uwog (707498) on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:19PM (#17467440) Homepage
      AbiWord. We have kicked abiword into a library, with the GUI stripped off. This allows one to build a GUI on top of it in python, like the rest of Sugar is. Seamless integration. This will be the writing Activity the children will use. Then we are working on special import/export filters for abiword to read/write the 'fileformat' of choice of sugar: crossmark. This will allow perfect integration with the Journal. Neat trick is that you can even embed abiword in mozilla to do inline editting.

      Also, a collaboration plugin for abiword is being worked on, that will use the mesh infrastructure and sugar presence framework to find and communicate with other users. This will allow realtime collaboration on documents (for example, 2 or more children working on an assingment simultaneously).

      So there you have an application that takes full use of the offered platform.
    • by Nazgul_Cro (868869) on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:30PM (#17467562) Journal
      OLPC can give kids Internet connection where they would usually have none.
      Web browser is, overall, the killer app. The pure difference in being able to access the Web, and not access it is remarkably huge. By giving children access to Google, Wikipedia, Slashdot, and billions of other sites and web applications it is the single most useful tool a child could have. It also comes with RSS reader, chat, AbiWord and eToys along with several games.

      Mesh networking is the point by itself, as its main function is not only to connect OLPC laptops together, but to also connect them to an Internet gateway, which will be provided by schools... This will have an overall effect of propagating Internet access through OLPC-targeted countries.

      I just don't see what would children "need" Office and Photoshop for.

      In developed countries, a child will have its computing needs satisfied already, by having access to regular computer. OLPC targetted child has no such privilege, and a difference between owning an OLPC laptop and not owning it will be huge.

      Porting software to OLPC is not hard. While Sugar is the interface, it is still founded on X Window System, and it runs Python apps as well... And newer versions of OS will have more apps that are already announced.
      Plus, judging a platform for not having enough software for it when it hasn't actually been released to its end-users yet isn't really fair. I predict it will create a very decent software library of its own, and that we'll see first of it quite soon after it goes fully public. It has happened to pretty much every platform around during the last 50 years.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        By giving children access to [...] Slashdot [...]
        ... you give them one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to learn how to calculate maximum amount of pr0n that fits on any cutting edge storage devices.
        • by DragonWriter (970822) on Thursday January 04 2007, @08:30PM (#17468204)
          This "mesh network" idea is pretty pie-in-the-sky for the technically barren regions the idea is being pushed on. Is someone going to establish transponders or regenerators, bridges, etc for Internet access?


          The point of the mesh networking is to enable certain network applications without a persistent connection to the internet, but yes, a company has developed and will be making available a satellite earthstation designed especially for rural village and donating satellite time to provide internet access to accompany the OLPC project.

          Does anyone even know if the schools are going to participate?


          The purchasers of the laptops in the involved countries are the national ministries of education, who tend to be the people that run the schools. One might surmise, then, that the schools will participate.

          Sometimes I think a bag of rice would be better spent on these areas than air dropping pastel, wind-up computers.


          And, if you want, you are free to send a bag of rice to any region you think needs it. There are even many charities that you can contribute to that will take care of most of the logistics of providing food aid for you, so you just can give them money. OLPC will continue working with interested countries to develope and deliver educational tools that both the people behind OLPC and the countries to whom they are being sold, rather than air-dropped as unilateral gifts, believe will be useful to those countries educational systems. The two kinds of projects are not opposed to each other.
    • by Vellmont (569020) on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:33PM (#17467610)

      Where are the apps for this platform?

      How about a web browser, or an e-book reader? Those certainly sound like important apps for learning. Or how about a scientific graphing calculator? Perhaps some interactive learning software? There's already apps that could be very usefull. Really the hard part isn't really the apps, it's the content and curiculum that're more important.

        Can anybody name one app, accessible to end users (e.g., no recompiling required), that is compatible with the Sugar UI, mesh networking, low-end specs, and other unique features?

      You're asking the wrong crowd here as there's not many people on slashdot develop for, or familiar with this machine. Just because no one has given you an answer means very little.

      Go into a shopping mall and give a random person an OLPC -- what would they do with it?

      Huh? What does a random person in a shopping mall have to do with the needs of someone in a 3rd world country that's never even used a computer have to do with each other? I think you're really missing the point here.

      Hardware has always suffered from a chicken/egg problem. You need interest in the hardware to generate interest in developing software, but you need available software for the hardware to do something.

      My guess is the hope is that more specific apps will be created for the purposes of learning. But using a pre-existing OS will bring enough apps that're already available for Linux to make the thing usefull from the start. Personally I'd be more worried about the curriculum and infra-structure for kids to learn how learn from these things.
      • by QuantumG (50515) * <qg@biodome.org> on Friday January 05 2007, @12:57AM (#17470084) Homepage Journal
        Ya know, back when I was 11 years old, I would have given all my pocket money and done weeks and weeks of chores just to be able to write BASIC on one of these things. These kids, who have never even seen a computer before, will get to code in Python/Smalltalk, browse the web, talk to their neighbours, and write a blog..
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      How about Opera?

      http://people.opera.com/howcome/2006/olpc/ [opera.com]
    • Linux desktop is getting nowhere, despite it's technical excellence,

      1. It's very easy to argue it's getting somewhere because of the variety of distros out there. Just because NetCraft or whatever research name you look to for credibility can't/won't measure or validate the progress means absolutely nothing.

      2. Putting together a coherent desktop is difficult to say the least. Your average Linux desktop won't be competing directly with apple/microsoft, but you will find pragmatic IT people deploying them e
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Go into a shopping mall and give a random person an OLPC -- what would they do with it?

      Last I checked, the target market for the OLPC was not "random people in shopping malls".

      Sure, it has some included apps, but that can't be sufficient to meet the needs of millions of kids with every need and in every environment imaginable.

      Correct. Many things that children might conceivably want out of a computer will not be provided by the OLPC. It will not be a game platform to rival the PS3, for instance.

      Its an educa

    • by wall0159 (881759) on Thursday January 04 2007, @08:10PM (#17468022)
      Where are the apps for this platform?

      The OS is Linux, so it will run anything that runs on Linux (subject to computing power, RAM, etc).

      no recompiling required

      There will (hopefully) be hundreds of millions of these machines. I think someone can make binaries for the kiddies if they want.

      Linux desktop is getting nowhere, despite it's technical excellence, because it lacks key apps (i.e., Office).

      Ahhh! so you really mean commercial applications. I don't see why 'perfect' compatibility with Word documents is so important to children.

      Look - it comes with applications: Broswer, RSS reader, text editor, and others. And it has a compiler, so kids can write their own applications. This computer is about liberating these kids, and giving them computer expertise - it's not about making them consumers of software. Difficult to understand, I know.

      I like to repeat myself every time an OLPC story is posted

      Well, saying the same thing many times doesn't make it more true or relevant.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        And it has a compiler, so kids can write their own applications.
        Perhaps a little ambitious, considering these children are probably seeing a computer for the first time.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Why don't you try [vmware.com] it [tuttlesvc.org] for yourself ?

      Then you can have an opinion.

  • Surely, it must be possible to build the same "Sugar" interface on any full install of a moder Linux OS... Where are the OS packages? Where is the SVN respository?
  • Screenshot (Score:3, Interesting)

    by youngerpants (255314) on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:29PM (#17467552)
    http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_design_review_3/ [laptop.org]

    Lameness filter is a lameness filter
  • OS is Fedora based (Score:3, Informative)

    by GodWasAnAlien (206300) on Thursday January 04 2007, @07:46PM (#17467736)
    The word "OS" is not mentioned in the article.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      If a country buys a lot of OLPCs, say 1M, that's $150M. I think they can throw in another million for i18n.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to get my hands on one of these. Why don't they make them available to the Western world at double the price, $200, and put the profits towards making more of them for the 3rd world?

      Because a major reason for the low price is that they aren't doing the kind of packaging and marketing, etc., they'd need to do for individual sales, the cost would be significantly higher than $100 (or even the $150 that looks like it will be the "early adopter" cost) if it were sold to individ