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Acoustic Sensors Make Any Surface a Touch Pad

Posted by CmdrTaco on Wed Nov 29, 2006 09:58 AM
from the now-isn't-that-keen dept.
Hardware Hacking Input Devices
An anonymous reader writes "Using cheap acoustic sensors the surface of any 3D object can be instantly made into a touch-sensitive interface capable of tracking two objects at once. Its creators are planning to make hospitals more hygienic — keyboards and mice will be replaced by desks wired to perform as keyboards and touchpads. A video shows it in action [.wmv]."
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  • New PDA Feature? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blaster151 (874280) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:03AM (#17033582)
    Hospitals? Not the first application that would have come to mind, but a little extra hygiene never hurt anyone. (Cue jokes about Slashdotters) I'm more interested in the portable computing applications. Does this mean that we could sit down at Starbucks, whip out a PDA equipped with this device, and have the table surface become a full-sized keyboard/mouse arrangement? That would be sweet!
    • this has been out for two(?) years
      http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ [virtual-la...yboard.com]

      • Strictly speaking, no it has not. While the end result may be similar, TFA concerns the use of a piezo-acoustic system to detect a "keypress"; the URL you provided describes a product which relies upon an optical system.
        • Strictly speaking, no it has not. While the end result may be similar, TFA concerns the use of a piezo-acoustic system to detect a "keypress"; the URL you provided describes a product which relies upon an optical system.
          Stricly speaking, the guy was answering a post about typing on a full-size keyboard on Starbucks tables.
          That could be done with the laser keyboard, more than 5 yearss ago at the prototype level, and some time later as a commercial product.
    • Yeah, but you already can buy a roll keyboard. You would need something to be able to SEE where the keys were. Hence, a LASER keyboard like the one at thinkgeek. Much more "Im Cool , you SUCK" factor from Starbucks types. http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ [virtual-la...yboard.com] Im thinking more Minority report with a BIG piece of tempered glass and a projector.
      • Even simpler, just have a sheet of glass/perspex engraved with the keyboard letters [three-fives.com]. Easy to wipe clean and maintain - no moving parts.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by mikael (484)
            I'll agree with you there - back in the 1980's the first home computers came out. One guy at our electronics club got a ZX80 [seraphin.free.fr] (the white computer with a flat keyboard), while another guy at our computer club had an Atari 400 [vintage-computer.com]. When I had the chance to use these systems, I would end up having pins and needles in my finger tips after less than an hour. Fortunately, my Dad agreed on buying a computer with a full size keyboard to learn touch-typing.

  • vibration (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheSHAD0W (258774) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:04AM (#17033604) Homepage
    I'd be interested in knowing what would happen when someone turned on the radio and they started playing GWAR...

  • Corners? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SpeedBump0619 (324581) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:06AM (#17033626)
    Did anyone else notice that the video doesn't show then using the corners of the touchable region? I'm curious whether the system is reliable when one sensor is very close to the source of the vibrations.

  • Space Invaders (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:07AM (#17033656) Homepage Journal
    "The whole surface of your desk could become your keyboard and mouse-pad."

    The video and descriptions show only a flat surface of a 3D object. All real objects are 3D, but few have empty flat surfaces across their entire working area.

    Will this thing work with the 3D surface of my cluttered desk? I doubt it will track the position of my fingertips on a piece of paper after I've picked it up from the desk, without sensors attached to the paper.

    When these sonar sensors can actually track objects inside a 3D volume, not just across a surface in 3D space, they'll have made a major leap in UI. Until then, I don't see how these sensors are different from the touchscreen bezels mounted on monitors for years, except they've figured out how to discard the frame, and supposedly do without calibration.
    • Let's hope that this thing can be adapted to work on all 3D surfaces. Imagine cybersex where you can have both hands on the keyboard.
      • Shadows are real, but they're not objects. They're an absence of light traveling from an object.

        Now, if you'd tried "all real objects are 4D", you might have something. Though really objects are fractal, as time isn't even an integer dimension.

  • I see a potential problem... (Score:4, Funny)

    by EzraSj (993720) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:08AM (#17033660)
    This is clear discrimination against Ninjas, who obviously don't make a sound even when playing a round of quake.
  • I've already seen laser keyboards that spread over a flat surface for PDAs. I wonder how they sense where you are typing, but now that I think about it, I would like to have a silent keyboard. I just wonder how difficult it is to type when you can't get a physical feel for the keyboard.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Abcd1234 (188840)
      Well, I'd imagine it would be a trivial task to build a small, textured rubber keyboard template that could be placed on a desk, thus providing the necessary tactile feedback. Make it dishwasher safe, and voila, you have a cheap, easy-to-sterilize keyboard.

  • A boost to furniture makers? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by howlatthemoon (718490) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:12AM (#17033702)
    So what happens when these are built into the furniture and the "mouse" goes bad? Will you need to buy a new desk?
  • "We could have a keyboard drawn onto the desks that would work perfectly and could be disinfected much more easily."


    Yeah, or you could have a membrane keyboard, like they do at fast food restaurant cash registers. If the solution already exists, and has existed for decades, why hasn't it been implemented? So some high-dollar high-tech overkill solution can be found instead?
    • So some high-dollar high-tech overkill solution can be found instead?

      "High-dollar"? What part of "cheap acoustic sensors" did you not understand?

      Meanwhile, here's a link for a membrane keyboard [hazardousa...tstore.com] designed to be chemically resistant and easy sterilized. $545 doesn't seem terribly cheap to me.
    • You can't get a plastic keyboard clean enough, often enough, no matter how hard you try. Someone will breathe on it or touch it constantly. But a flat surface, ceramic or steel, can be rubbed down with alcohol in seconds.
      • Maybe because hospitals have more complex data entry needs than "Combo #3 with Fries"? I work for a medical systems vendor, efficiency is vital to these organizations, both for patient care and for their bottom line. There's no way in the world a radiologist would be willing to enter reports on the kind of keyboard you're talking about.

        And they'd be willing to enter reports on an essentially flat surface with even *less* tactile feedback than a membrane board?

        -b.

  • Is it really practical? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Aneirin (701613) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:15AM (#17033756)
    This is not the first keyboard implementation without a physical keyboard. There have been others that use optics which would be a lot more reliable since accoustics change with simple things such as background noise, the shape of the room, and even the surface being used. The big issue is whether people are comfortable using it. When other implementations have come up, people just didnt like the feel of hitting the solid material. Most slashdotters probably spend a bit of time figuring out what keyboard "feels" best to them just as people do with mattresses. However, I highly doubt anyone has an ideal keyboard that gives no tactile response. Although it may seem simple to change this precedence, I would note the USAs insistance on not using metric, and the fact that we still use QWERTY keyboards that were designed to be inefficient so that typewriters would not jam. I just don't see this past a niche market.
    • No, it's not the first, but it's important for a number of reasons. Most importantly, it's cheaper, piezo electric sensors are cheap and other solutions like I-Tech's Virtual Laser Keyboard [virtual-la...yboard.com] are not ($180).
    • 1. Metric sounds like a nice idea, but really isn't in practice. With 12 inches in a foot you can divide it by 2, 3, and 4 without endlessly repeating decimals (and the need to make a 1/3 meter mark on the stick just in case). Base 10 lets you divide by 2 and 5, with not much call to divide things in fifths.

      2. QWERTY was not designed to be inefficient, but it was designed so that typewriters didn't jam. Ultimately, not having to stop to free stuck keys made typists _more_ efficent.

      Hopefully you're fro
      • With 12 inches in a foot you can divide it by 2, 3, and 4 without endlessly repeating decimals
        By that reasoning, maybe we should shift the entire number system to base 12 and have done with it. Or do you think that counting in 10s is a bit easier?

  • Idea (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pubjames (468013) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:19AM (#17033816)
    Couldn't you combine this with a projector to make a wall you can "paint"? Could be great fun.

    Great for kids too - finger painting on the wall without making a mess.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mcrbids (148650)
      Couldn't you combine this with a projector to make a wall you can "paint"? Could be great fun.

      Great for kids too - finger painting on the wall without making a mess.

      Except that you'd be missing a key element to childhood development - the mess!

      People don't think in pure abstracts. Understanding concepts like mass, volume, friction, etc come from a "gut level" understanding that stems from our experiences with these things. The more firmly these ideas are grasped, (through childhood play) the easier these a
      • Wow. What a negative rant to a fun idea.

        Except that you'd be missing a key element to childhood development - the mess!

        Perhaps you are assuming that I meant my "painting light on walls" idea should replace all other childhood activities? I never said that. Perhaps rather than being negative about it you might consider how this might be a different experience for children that they might benefit from in other ways.

  • LCARS (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Combined with a flat monitor as the desk, this is Star Trek LCARS right there. Re-configurable at the touch of a button, your keyboard /mouse can be anything. And this doesn't cost hundreds for OLED keys either.

    Count me in when they have a big keyboard working for this. But if it's acoustics, how do you get a key-repeat?

  • Not exactly new (Score:5, Informative)

    by Pig Hogger (10379) <pig...hogger@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:25AM (#17033898) Homepage Journal
    It's not an exactly new method.

    Some 20 years ago, when electronic daisywheel typewriters were starting to take over, Smith-Corona/Marchant came out with a novel way to keep using their mechanical typewriter tooling. They used a conventional mechanical keyboard, where the keys stuck a bar of steel with a piezoelectric sensor at either end.

    The delay between the time the impulse reached each sensor enabled a microprocessor to pinpoint exactly where the bar was impacted, and thus deduce which key was pressed.

    That's basically the same principle applied, but in three dimensions.

  • A better way to improve keyboard hygiene in hospitals would be for everyone to have his own personal keyboard, operated by the hand that holds it and carried in a pocket, wireless of course. Something like mine at chordite.com :-)

    But what hospitals really need is a way to sterilize hands up to the elbows in about 3 seconds. Think of boxes in the halls with holes you stick your arms into. When you press a foot pedal the boxes somehow magically *poof* and you're clean. Not perfectly clean of course but as c
    • A better way to improve keyboard hygiene in hospitals would be for everyone to have his own personal keyboard, operated by the hand that holds it and carried in a pocket, wireless of course.

      Better yet, speech recognition with disposable mics.

      -b.

        • They already have rules about things like personal sterilization, and they get violated all the time. How do you think staph transfers from patient to patient?

          Fact is, the minute you rely solely on personal habits to solve these kinds of issues, you're in for a world of hurt.
  • 1. Take an existing technology
    2. Adapt it for use in health care.
    3. Profit!

    Seriously, though... any would-be inventors would be wise to keep that in mind. If you think the Pentagon overpays for a toliet seat, wait to you see what a hospital spends on one.

  • Roland patented and employed a suspiciously similar tech years ago for their V-Drum electronic percussion system [rolandus.com]. Perhaps Roland's patents only apply to musical instruments, but the concept of deriving placement and distance from piezo electric sensors is nothing new.

  • Sorry, researchers, but...... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Solder Fumes (797270) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:37AM (#17034160)
    Elo Touchsystems / Tyco already has a product out there that works exactly this way...and a myriad of patents. Acoustic Pulse Recognition: http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/marcom/apr_wp.pdf [elotouch.com]

    It's a relatively new product but it's already way past the research stage and well into production.

  • So what happens... (Score:3, Funny)

    by thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) on Wednesday November 29 2006, @10:53AM (#17034436) Homepage Journal
    when someone bumps my desk?asldku o0q3ueoaufhaslkfhslr8yrlkZDBSKDfjg24kadj fopwea5 948a a;ljkfh ap085u;dIAsdl;h;oduY*()~#)98UWO;ERIUWE;LKJ W;ELRI EW DAMN IT!
  • Seems like I could hide a gadget under a desk that could tell what you were writing on it. Or what keys you were pressing on a keyboard resting on it. Or what they're writing on the whiteboard on the shared wall.

    Of course I'd just use it so I could tell what my employees were IM-ing during the meetings, but my first thought was not cleaner keyboards.
  • It looks interesting, but I wonder if it can be pressure sensetive (i.e. can detect how hard one is pressing on the surface based on the vibrations). I'm thinking of the artistic applications for this as a way to replace expensive Wacom tablets that come in set sizes of just a few inches with a single product that can be set up to simulate a canvas of any size. But in order for that to be a practical replacement for most artists, it would need to be able to sense the force being applied to the surface (for

    • Hospitals are dirty becuase they outsource their cleaning to companies that employ mostly low paid, un(der)trained staff.

      So, according to you, an entity cannot be "low paid" and "clean." Right? But I can assure you that when death is demanding a visit to your household, you will not think of the "cleanliness" you appear to crave.

      On the other hand I have an issue with the headline. Consider:

      A video shows it in action [.wmv].

      When shall we have a video in an Open Source format like .ogg? If slashdot cou

      • When shall we have a video in an Open Source format like .ogg? If slashdot could transform the videos to open source formats before posting the stories, this could be a very welcome development.
        When? Likely never. Why? That video is copyrighted by someone and you can't just legally copy it, transcode it, and serve it up yourself.

        Now if a slashsdot editor went to the trouble of requesting permission to host the video (the benefit to the video owner is to stave off /. effect) with the condition they can transcode into an open source format...then maybe. But when was the last time you saw a /. editor willing to validate, proofread, or desensationalize a story let alone contact someone, ask for permission, download, transcode, and host a video? Back to never again. :)
        • What is that I don't get is why not just publish the thing to Google or Youtube. Not only would that make it easier for everyone to view (except for those old folks who hate flash regardless of the fact it can be run on Win, OS X, and Linux without fighting over Divx, WMV, or Quicktime codecs), but it would also save them an arm and a leg with bandwidth costs.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by OneSmartFellow (716217)
        So, according to you, an entity cannot be "low paid" and "clean."
        That is not what I said.
        please re-read my post.

        But I can assure you that when death is demanding a visit to your household, you will not think of the "cleanliness" you appear to crave.

        I refuse to die in a hospital. Hospitals are full of sick people, and a sizable majority that are admitted, die there. A significant percentage of those that die in hospital would have survived had they stayed at home.

        I eschew drugs unless as an absol

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by SoapDish (971052)
      Because it's much easier to clean a flat surface rather than a keyboard, or even a mouse.
    • While this point may be true in some cases, it's only part of the issue. There is a significant difference between dirty and unsterile. Cleanliness isn't the real problem, it's sterility.

      It is far easier to sterilize a flat durable solid surface than something convuluted and fragile like a keyboard. So, this is a great thing. And of course it has so many many many more applications too.
    • BZZZZZZZT wrong :) Sound needs a medium to propagate. This medium isn't restricted to air, however. Your desk will do fine as a medium to transfer vibrations, and if acoustic sensors are attached to it firmly enough, they will pick up the typing vibrations just fine, even in a vacuum.

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