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Thailand Government Cancels OLPC Participation
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:45 AM
from the roll-a-hard-six dept.
from the roll-a-hard-six dept.
patiwat writes "Thailand's new junta-appointed Education Minister has cancelled Thailand's participation in the One Laptop Per Child project and scrapped a plan to give a 2B1 laptop to every primary school student. He has also cancelled plans to roll out computers and a broadband connection to every single school in Thailand. The cancellation of half a million scholarships for needy students is being studied. He cited the lack of readiness of teachers and the need to focus on basic education standards. 'We will not focus too much on technology and materials. We will focus on substance,' he said. This comes on the heels of the cancellation of the Thai government's open source policy."
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This story selected and edited by LinuxWorld editor for the day Saied Pinto.
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IT: Thai IT Minister Slams Open Source 520 comments
patiwat writes "Thailand's newly appointed Information and Communications Technology Minister has slammed open source software as useless and full of bugs: 'With open source, there is no intellectual property. Anyone can use it and all your ideas become public domain. If nobody can make money from it, there will be no development and open source software quickly becomes outdated... As a programmer, if I can write good code, why should I give it away? Thailand can do good source code without open source.' This marks a sharp u-turn in policy from that of the previous government."
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More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy needs to manage my Data Center. It is a well known thought (from a sysadmin point of view) that throwing hardware at an undefined problem may mask the issue for a time, but it does not 'usually' solve the problem.
High technology CAN be a liability if it isn't managed correctly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Funny)
Sometimes you've got to have your priorities straight.
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if the technology is managed perfectly, most of the kids are still going to look at these laptops as new toys and expensive nightlights...
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:5, Informative)
I do think Thailand is aware of the benefits of technology. They are having quite the political upheaval, though, and this is probably closely related to the Southern militants [wikipedia.org]. The southern part is where all the violence around schools is happening. (This post [slashdot.org] links to the BBC [bbc.co.uk] and ABC [abc.net.au])
There is definitely a battle for the identity and control of Thailand. I think it's incredible how little blood has been shed in the recent coup. I hope that the government moves back toward democracy, but it looks like Thailand is becoming more of a Communist state.
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
(Metaphorically) killing off great opportunities for better education, and trying to reach some stage of technological autarchy, all from a man with a military background... sounds like a mix of the Khmer Rouge agenda with the North Korean Juche system, without all the suppression and genocide, of course...
No, I don't think that his goals will do his country any good.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope you don't mean to suggest that communism is the opposite of democracy, communism is totalitarianism, or similar nonsense.
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, "communist government" is a funny phrase, because communism was originally defined as a state where everyone is equal and there is no government, making "communist government" a contradiction in terms. Secondly, the governments you refer to weren't communist. They may have been called that in the west, or in popular usage, but if you look at the official terminology, they would be called "people's republic", "soviet republic", etc. In practice, these governments may have been autocratic, aristocratic, sort of democratic, or totalitarian, but certainly not communist.
The larger point is that communism is not a system of government, but more an economic system. You can have a "communist" the-community-owns-everything-no-single-person-ow
Parent
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
The scary thing is the same is happening with "liberal", it's almost an insult to be called liberal these days.
As for NewSpeak, it's doubleplusgood!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This semms to be the case only in the US. In Europe, there is a very wide range of very diverse views about communism in general, and about each of the ex-communist states in particular.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Owning your own land and making your own living decentralizes
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What the GP is also saying is that other ideologies can be subjected to the same treatment as Communism. Orwell warned us against tota
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:More hardware = More infrastructure (Score:4, Insightful)
You're being generous. A cynic might suggest that this guy is trading away the technological future of his country's children at the behest of a well heeled international corporation.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, after a military Coup a major education project under way is canceled along with a reform of the countries IT policies, and teachers in the south of the country start to spontaneously grow bullet holes.
Call me crazy, but somehow I don't really think this new regime is honestly out to create the best education they can.
Relatively Expensive Solution (Score:2)
$500 is not expensive but also is not cheap. There are better uses for that money.
As well, how much can an elementary-school kid get out of a laptop besides playing some games and doing e-mail? Playing games and sending e-mail can be learned in a day. They do not require the kid to own a laptop. He can
Oh Well... (Score:2, Funny)
not an Open Source failure (Score:4, Interesting)
Hopefully, /.'ers and others won't look upon this as an
Open Source failure, it isn't. It's (in my opinion) more of a
triumph somewhere of sanity... Technology has it's place, but a
laptop for every child smacks of the program's hubris and less of
a sane approach to helping poor countries.
I think they show real insight when fearing little return on the effort because teachers are poorly trained. Heck, even in wealthy countries teachers consistently have no computer smarts (my sister is a teacher, she hasn't a clue!). Compound that with a techie-Linux platform (I love Linux, but for the mass public, with minimal background and training?) and this program was running off the rails from the beginning.
There are excellent examples of schools in the United States where huge investments in technology for schools showed no tangible gains in students' profieciencies and at the same time examples of poor schools shifting emphasis to basics, discipline, and community with strong academic results.
Technology for technology's sake is just that, but not much of a salve for third world economies, at least not by giving a laptop to every child. I think this is actually a positive development because it has (had) so many ways it could have gone wrong allowing companies like Microsoft down the road to point fingers at Open Source as the culprit, and if only Microsoft had been chosen to save the world.
(For the record, this whole OLPC effort would be just as much of a train wreck with Windows, just a whole heck of a lot more expensive.)
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:5, Insightful)
It hasn't even started yet. It may be a failure, but to declare it a failure is like declaring who has won the 2010 World Cup today.
The OLPC may go to more places than developing countries. There are a number of places that are doing a trial of the system.
With Libya's order going through they have enough to get serious volumes being made. Once they show that then other countries, including richer developed countries may be interested. OLPCs may work well as text book readers. How much does the average school system in a US spend on textbooks per student per year? Who can say now whether some of these uses will take off.
The OLPC may fail, but it hasn't failed yet and it is silly to describe it as having failed before it's even been tried.
Parent
Re:not an Open Source failure - not a failure (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't believe it? Go look for yourself. The OLPC FAQ page [laptop.org] brings us such disarmingly trite generalities as:
That's right! Little Juan, Choudary, and Byung-Sun need a "tool" with which to think -- and I thought it was called a "brain". No, they need a window into the world, and a way to learn learning through independent interaction and exploration! Never mind that all of that can be accomplished *without* a $100 laptop in the hands of each child. Want a window into the world? Get them a good library with a few current events publications, and a computer lab with a few internet connected computers. You can build a heck of a good public school library (or 2 or 3) for $50 million dollars
But wait -- there's more in the FAQ [laptop.org]!
Where to begin?? To compare a $100 dollar laptop with a pencil that literally costs pennies is ridiculous. And the final argument, that warm-fuzzy-hot-chocolate-lump-in-your-throat claim... "It's important that the kids OWN something to maintain through love... and care." Awwwww.... how can we say NO to that?! Once again, footballs, dolls, and books don't cost $100 per child.
Your final claim: Makes my mind boggle. By this same logic, anything that hasn't been tried, no matter how stupid, far-fetched, or wrong-headed, should be tried. After all, if it hasn't been tried, it's silly to predict that it will fail, right? Might as well just spend the 50 million dollars and see what happens!
50 million dollars (500,000 laptops * $100) is a LOT of money to gamble with in a developing nation. I'd much rather see them spend that money on projects that have been shown to have a significant positive impact on educational quality -- smaller class sizes; basic health care so that kids don't miss weeks of school; upgrading school facilities with good lights, good water, and a reasonable amount of climate control -- good roofs to keep the rain out, ventilation to keep things cooler in summer, heaters to keep things cooler in winter. Save the OLPC project until it's actually shown that a laptop in the hands of each child will benefit them, rather than wasting money, wasting time, and putting yet another cement block around the neck of developing countries.
Parent
Steel ones (Score:2)
Not that I necessarily disagree with him. If those schools are worried about their power bills, giving the kids laptops and high speed internet is NOT the solution. Maybe the cuts necessary to pay the power bills could have come from some other crazy scheme, though.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
More likely, he is canceling this because the last thing a military dictatorship wants is informed citizens.
Parent
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It occurs to me that one of the stories told about widespread internet use is that people would be able to do things like "look up how to fix their irrigation systems on the web". Well, I've been using the web since Mosaic 2.0, and I'm much less able to fix a truck, repair an irrigation system, care for a garden, or do a whole bunch of other things that I know a lot of other people who aren't using the net know how to do. If I want to learn how to fix a truck, I might use my laptop to find a school or a place to do it - but then I'm just replacing the yellow pages. I'm more likely to find someone in my own personal social network who has the skills I want to acquire, and hang out with them.
The one practical thing that net connectivity has given me is access to recipes for cooking that I didn't have before. If the OLPC enables children in the developing world to cook eggplant parmigiana, I guess that's a good thing, but it's probably a lot less ambitious than what the creators had in mind.
The early zeal of the project isn't even a matter of "having a hammer and seeing every problem as a nail," it's more like "having a cantaloupe and thinking it's a hammer, and then throwing your cantaloupe at vaguely nail-shaped kittens."
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
There are a few more:
But outside of that I guess you are right. I don't cook, so I can't say much about your recipe theory. I would only add news to the list, but that's hardly necessary, and all that matters will eventually propagate through traditional means anyway.
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the person.
Some people aren't into DIY, so they use the web to look for someone to buy from.
Some people are into DIY and use the web for things other than shopping.
In my case, some of the things I have used the web for are:
Probably not the things a person in a developing country might look for, but that is because I don't live in a developing country. It does demonstrate that the web is a useful reference library, and I contend that the web contains information that is useful to a person in a developing country, that they would otherwise miss out on.
For example I've heard of villagers using the web to monitor world prices for various crops they grow, placing them in a stronger bargaining position when the people they sell to try to understate prices.
I don't think there is any question that the developing world needs the Internet. The question is how to best get it to them. Many people seem to view the Internet as a luxury, which it is if used for entertainment or amusement. The flip side of the Internet is textbooks, meteorological reports, market prices and the like, which are necessities for anything but a subsistence life style. Maybe people in developed countries take these necessities for granted, so don't notice the Internet's role in providing them?
If not OLPC what then? Information can be distributed on paper but as the volume and timeliness of information picks up the Internet is cheaper. OLPC seems like a cute misnomer for "Internet without infrastructure".
Parent
Re:Steel ones (Score:5, Informative)
It is not permitted to fail in a Thai school. So, the teachers either keep testing and testing until a pass is obtained, or they simply make the lowest grade a pass, and distribute the rest of the marks accordingly. I know, because I was forced to do this. The Thais need to focus on sham. And as far as I know, the Thai university system is not accredited.
In the provinces, things are the same, except not nearly as wired.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
No bravery. He cut projects of the PREVIOUS government. They had a coup a few months ago, the army appointed the current government. It's traditional to cut the previous administration's pork barrel projects to make room for your own.
That would have been a real coup (Score:2)
Cancellation is extreme (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Good Decision (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A representative of the Junta will be happy to appoint your candidate as soon as they have assumed power.
And who said Juntas were all bad?
Poll says Thai citizens ... (Score:2)
There was no poll -- who is asking the citizens? It doesn't matter what a poll says or what the citizens want. Unless, of course, the generals decide it matters.
Makes sense (Score:2)
-matthew
Understandable... (Score:2)
Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Interesting)
High levels of government corruption in participating countries is not a coincidence either. Someone will make a lot of money on this, and you can bet it won't be teachers.
Re:Glad to see that rationalism is not dead yet (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Some contextual links deleted by the editors (Score:3, Informative)
The "junta" being referred to is the Council for National Security [wikipedia.org], a clique of the Thai army that seized power in the 19 September coup [wikipedia.org].
The Education Minister is Wijit Srisa-arn [wikipedia.org], a former Opposition member of parliament.
http://en.wikipedia/wiki/ [en.wikipedia]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
With respect, I disagree: I don't feel that children in developing nations need a chance to learn about computers nearly as much as they need encouragement to dream of and plan for ways to improve their society using their ideas and their heritage.
Perhaps the "Great White Hunter" metaphor isn't the best choice, but no matter how it's expressed, the fact remains that computers are a product of, and therefore cursed by, the legacy of an industrial economy that wants people to buy things whether they need them
On the other hand.. (Score:2)
I'm disappointed, but this guy is 100% new AFAIK - it's actually too early to know what he'll do.
Re:Thinking style of a Developing Nation's Governm (Score:2)
Your experience does not translate. (Score:3, Insightful)
I didn't see my first computer until I was 11, didn't own a Pc until I was 13, and didn't own a PC with a GUI until I was 18. Yet here I am, a member of the "techno elite".
Your schools could afford textbooks and libraries. That's why most of your peers are literate. Those things don't work where you can't afford them. Today, you consider electronic publications cheaper and better than paper publications. It's the same way for schools and that's the point of the OLPC program.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)