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"Interface-Free" Touch Screen at TED

Posted by kdawson on Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:08 PM
from the audience-goes-wild dept.
Input Devices Hardware
Down8 writes, "Jeff Han, an NYU researcher, has recently shown off his 'interface free' touch screen technology at the TEDTalks in Monterey. Some sweet innovation that I hope makes it to the mainstream soon." The photo manipulation interface is reminiscent of "Minority Report."
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"Interface-Free" Touch Screen at TED 50 Comments More /

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  • Interface-free? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WilliamSChips (793741) <full.infinity@nOspam.gmail.com> on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:11PM (#16638351) Journal
    How do you not have an interface?
    • I guess it means you don't need to specifically design a touch interface- he's got software to automagically adapt to touch based?
    • Sure looked like there was an interface on the top of the Google Earth-like software. It is a very cool technology though.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by kfg (145172)
      How do you not have an interface?

      If it's useless; although you can still load it up with chrome and tailfins if you'd like.

      KFG
    • He doesn't have an interface because he says he doesn't have an interface. That makes all the difference in his world.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by fsterman (519061)

      Exactly, you can't have an interface free interface, we are interfacing with the world. Want some really mind blowing interface design work check out Jeff Raskin's The Humane Interface [amazon.com] Go back to the fundamentals of how humans interact with the world, find where we retain the most information, are the fastest to react, what gives us higher error rates, etc and redisign computer interfaces. Imagine an OS without applications or files. That's what he outlines. This is just another input device.

      Even if

      • Re:Interface-free? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Atlantis-Rising (857278) on Monday October 30 2006, @01:38AM (#16639107) Homepage
        I took a gander at that book, and right away as I skimmed the amazon page, I noticed problems. He may be a wonderful cognitive psychologist, but he's no technocrat.

        The whole "Why shouldn't my computer take three nanoseconds to turn on, read my mind, and then never ever have errors!!!?!?one1" thing is a very amateur approach to the problem, if you ask me. Sure, it would be nice, but I'm absolutely sure it's technically impossible.

        To be more specific:
        "There has never been any technical reason for a computer to take more than a few seconds to begin operation when it is turned on."
        I can name half a dozen; power consumption for suspend to RAM, system process cleanup for suspend to disk, disk space storage for suspend to disk, driver software that doesn't gracefully handle failing down to a hibernate state, plug-and-play hardware detection on bootup... not to mention the whole raft of problems that occur when users never shut down and clog their system up by never ending processes.

        The problem with the view he espouses is that it practically requires a suspend-state, when users aren't good with suspend states. It wasn't until Windows XP and the relatively modern (last three or four years) (okay don't flame me I'm sure SOMEWHERE there was a build that had really optimal suspend, but I couldn't find it) linux systems that suspend really started working, and even so, your device drivers really depend on when you can suspend the system and how it restores.

        For example, when I tested Vista on my laptop, the base sound driver would for some reason kill the audio after restore from suspend. It just wouldn't make any noise until it rebooted. When I upgraded the driver, it went away.

        It is, in fact, only recently that we have had flashmem and the concept of keeping your 'bootfiles' on a seperate flash partition to read from for a quick boot has been a realistic and close to mainstream idea for the desktop.

        The same thing comes up here.
        "Why should you have to double-click anything? What does Ctrl+D mean one thing in one program and a completely different thing in another? And what's the point of the Yes/No confirmation if the user is in the habit of clicking Yes without thinking about it?"
        All of those things make sense in the context they are being used in, and they're relatively intuitive. After all, it's not the programmers fault the user is an idiot, especially with something as simple as a yes/no dialog box, as long as the dialog box is written in language comprehensible for the designed userbase.

              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                by ebassi (591699)

                GNOME did invert some years ago the order of the buttons on right-to-left languages, following the example of the Apple UI, and uses verbs instead of the infamous YNC combo; so, no: "linux" does not do like windows.

                and just to be overly zealous: windows vista added message boxes with verbs+descriptions, so neither does newer releases of windows do like the old times (finally).

    • "How do you not have an interface?"

      Though I get your point, the implication is that it's gesture based instead of requiring on-screen input. It's a misappropriate use of the term, but the idea is effectively communicated.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by corychristison (951993)

        No matter how interesting, I'll NEVER bear an ad before a small online video.

        I think I can help [ie7.com] you [mozilla.org]. Well, in most situations, anyway... hehe.

        On topic: I feel this technology really could grow... I would like to see it more like the Nintendo DS. With Dual screens. One being your main form of input. Perhaps by having an overlay application of a scalable keyboard similar to the one featured in the video. And you can use the primary display for, well, display. I dunno. It's late and I'm tired... if you u

  • This was shown on CommandN and commented on and blogged to death since FEBRUARY! GOSH!

  • This is a very interesting set up (Score:3, Interesting)

    by skogs (628589) on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:28PM (#16638411) Journal
    This is an exciting setup...and I agree with his assertion that the OLPC (one laptop per child) is sort of like introducing millions of children to our inane weaknesses instead of our strengths. Really, I know that something like this wouldn't completely remove the need for a keyboard and such for many years, but it is a striking evolutionary step forward.

    Just think how easy all those dramatic situations would have been in the 24th century if the Starship enterprise had some of these!

  • Hand me a doughnut while I work on this would ya? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:30PM (#16638425)
    Hand me a doughnut while I work on this would ya? Everyone take a moment and look BETWEEN the keys on your keyboard. Now put that all on your monitor.
    • Everybody clean between your keys. Now clean your monitor.
    • Ever cleaned your keyboard? If your keyboard is even built so it can be cleaned, you have to pry the keys off to clean beneath them.

      Ever cleaned your monitor? It usually involves a cloth and a spray bottle, and takes a few seconds.

      I'd much rather have to clean my monitor than my keyboard.

    • I actually use a touchscreen all day long... my Tablet PC. In some senses it's kind of worse than what's shown in this video... because I rest my whole hand on it for a long amount of time while I take notes in class.

      So does it get dirty? Yep... after a couple of weeks of use it gets a pretty good film on it. Is it bothersome? Nope. Unless you are looking for it you really can't tell... it's actually the texture that let's me know when it's dirty (it's not quite as slick to write on). I just carry som

  • Old story, and no such thing as 'no interface' (Score:4, Insightful)

    by streak (23336) on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:31PM (#16638427) Journal
    Ok, everyone realizes this was recorded in February right?
    Last I checked its the end of October.
    Jeff Han has been covered I don't know how many times on how many sites (probably on Slashdot too - haven't checked the archives yet).

    There's no such thing as no interface btw.
    Yes, you can remove a lot of the mode-switching with different gestures, but there is always going to be some sort of interface to allow you to access other functions.
    In my mind, once you get above about 4 or 5 gestures, things start to become confusing for people again - what was that gesture again? Thus defeating the purpose of no interface.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Tremor (APi) (678603)
      Indeed. Reference: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=multi+touch [google.com]
    • Word. I saw this months ago.

      That said, "no interface" is a figure of speech. Technically, every tool we use has an "interface" of some sort. For example, the interface for a pencil is arguably the wood stalk that's intended to reside in your hand.

      By "no interface" we're really talking about interfaces that are intuitive and reference more natural metaphors of interactivity.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by catwh0re (540371)
      I've seen various incarnations of this video all through the year. In particular it's often referenced when speaking about Apple computer's gestural patent applications which detail very similar techniques as shown in this video.

      In particular we can see the zooming (into maps, etc) gestures in the patent imagery. http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/48/new-apple-patents/ [hrmpf.com] Although these ideas are not too-new, the related apple patents date as far back as Jan 2005 (through to Oct 06)

  • That has to be the coolest thing I've seen in a long time.
  • in the computer industry.. and yes, the fact that this stuff isn't actually available to buy yet means it aint coming out of the lab. Why? Cause it takes people who are willing to accept risk to turn research into products and not every grad student is into taking risks with their life.

  • Oh for fucks sake (Score:4, Insightful)

    by glwtta (532858) on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:38PM (#16638481) Homepage
    Sure, it's neat - giant touchscreen with multiple points of contact and gestures that zoom and pan.

    And this is what's going to "change the way we interact with computers"? Odd as it may sound, most application interfaces don't revolve around zooming and panning; there are considerably harder problems left to solve.

    Funny he should mention RSI too, because that keyboard that will free you from the bonds of conformity, and that's displayed on a hard surface, will kill your wrists in a matter of months.

    The thing is great for the Earth-type applications, but that's about it. It's cool technology - why must every innovation promise to change all future computer interactions?

    (btw, if that picture viewer's "Pile of Crap" metaphor is where UI design is headed, I'm never upgrading again. I have my desk to act as a pile of crap, it won't make me feel more comfortable with my computer if it emulates that)
    • Not only is the keyboard an issue, consider the rest of his body! He's bent over the screen, neck bent to view the screen that's 2 feet below eye level. Any basic ergonomics advise says you should put the top edge of your display at eye level. Anything lower than that and you'll experience neck and back pain. Keyboard-related RSI will go nicely with a stiff neck.

      I swear, if this were from a business selling some new product, I'd say they were trying to boost sales. But he's a researcher. I guess they must b
    • It actually reminds me a lot of Raskin's ZoomWorld [raskincenter.org]. "Pile-of-Crap" isn't so good, but having a zoom in interfance for storing data and applications is actually super intuitive and useful.
    • The thing is great for the Earth-type applications, but that's about it.

      Just because you lack vision, don't assume everyone else is just as blind.

      This would provide a great addition for editing video, audio or image collections. I've just scanned in over a hundred images related to genealogy and this could provide an excellent and FAST interface for sorting them. Combine it with audio annotation and decent voice recognition (dictation) and it would save me weeks of work.

      My kids take tons of photos, and or
    • I agree. It's a fun toy, and it might lend itself to some useful new applications, but for current computer uses, it's not worth much. Web browsing wouldn't gain much if anything from that kind of interface. Word processing on such a computer would be a complete pain in the ass. Their photo organizing app looked pretty useless, but I could see that being made more practical. Web browsing, word processing, and media organization are the three main things the average joe uses their computer for, and media org

  • Well it makes for a great demo but I notice he didn't actually manipulate any information there, just graphics.

    What I'd be really interested in is seeing some kind of email or office app done this way. I suspect it's much harder to apply these techniques to very data-heavy displays or data based around language rather than graphics. That's not to say it's a bad idea - multi-touch will probably arrive on our desktops at some point, but I see it as being a supplement to what we have now rather than replacin

  • In fact, it absolutey does have an interface. Granted, it's a simple interface, and one that contextually changes with each application, but it's still an interface. Basically, all he's showing is an interface that essentially has two mice, not one, and instead of using your hand to manipulate a physical mouse (which is then translated onto the screen), they've built a complicated touch-screen system to eliminate the mouse altogether. And then they added a second one. Don't get me wrong, this stuff is neato

  • Minority report??? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by www.sorehands.com (142825) on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:58PM (#16638611) Homepage
    This is not from the Minority Report that was released in 2002. This was shown in shuttle interface in Earth the Final Conflict [tv.com] which aired in 1997.

    This type of interface was also in The first $20 millions is the hardest. [imdb.com] But that came out in the same year as The Minority report.
    • This is not from the Minority Report that was released in 2002. This was shown in shuttle interface in Earth the Final Conflict which aired in 1997.

      This type of interface was also in The first $20 millions is the hardest. But that came out in the same year as The Minority report.

      Thanks for clearing that up. I guess this is why the call it "news for nerds."

  • The Pentagon already bought this,,, (Score:3, Interesting)

    by prof_peabody (741865) on Monday October 30 2006, @12:04AM (#16638647)
    I recently attended a demo of a similar device at my company. The pentagon already has purchased units and the company is trying to branch out to private sector applications. They were using for collaboration with geographical software (gis data).
  • It's a very cool looking product, and I'm sure there are some uses for it, but I don't see this becoming commonplace by any means. It just doesn't seem to be a really better way to interface with our machines then what already exists.

  • This is good. One of the major problems with graphic design systems, both CAD and animation, is that it's only possible to select one thing at a time. Many operations involve two objects, and you're forced to some sequential select-and-manipulate interface. This gets you past that.

    Many high-end animation systems will accept multiple input devices, from MIDI keyboards to knob boxes to articulated skeletons. At the low end, we have the scroll wheel, which was a big improvement. Finally, you could do tw

  • I think that streaming media is very [buffering]....

  • Neat demo. Needs Mandelbrot. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Alsee (515537) on Monday October 30 2006, @12:24AM (#16638757) Homepage
    As he was manipulating the map application it really jumped out at me how cool it would be to run a Mandelbrot set app that way. It would have made a fun and awesome addition to the presentation. If I were working in his lab that would almost certainly be the first thing I would add to the system.

    -

  • The GUI (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mqduck (232646) <mqduck AT mqduck DOT net> on Monday October 30 2006, @12:48AM (#16638849)
    Very neat and completely useless. I don't know about you guys, but I find it much easier to find my data in my nice hierarchical filesystem than by digging through a garbage can fan full of papers, which is what this GUI simulates.
  • This reminded me of this video [youtube.com] I watched a while back, with Google Earth and Warcraft III on a giant touch-screen display using two fingers to zoom or select units, etc. Pretty cool stuff. Too bad it's probably still to expensive to hope for it to become mainstream anytime soon.

  • Interfaces are natural (Score:4, Interesting)

    by tygt (792974) on Monday October 30 2006, @01:00AM (#16638927)
    I realize that the point of this (TFA) is about trying to make things more intuitive and natural. But, as others have pointed out in other words, interfaces are a natural aspect of life.

    I have an interface in front of me right now. I have pen, paper; I've got a camera... if I want to record a visual of something, I have to pick up my camera. Never mind that the camera has one of these "non-intuitive interfaces" that we (rather, the article) are trying to remove, I still have to do something to get it done. Anything that I do interfaces with reality.

    One of the goals of the iconic desktop originally was to duplicate the real desktop in some fashion to make things simpler for humans to interact with their work on a computer, so that there wouldn't be too much of a translation layer to build between real and virtual work. Similarly, some try to implement handwriting recognition to remove the interface of the keyboard from the writing process.... until they realize that geeks like us can't write for crap and can type ten times faster as well.

    Regardless, of course, there's got to be some way to tell the computer that you actually want to resize the strange hand-like object on that screen the guy had (I think it was a hand, my sound was off and I lost interest rapidly) rather than add to the drawing. There's got to be some way to change modes, as he did between drawing the outline, getting it filled in, and then moving it around - that's all interface. Sure, it looked sweet that there wasn't any menu pull-down happening, no mouse, but really, you've got a pretty damn simple application that can be manipulated in this fashion.

    Do anything complex, and you'll have to have a more complex interface suddenly.

    "Computer... Computer... (McCoy hands Scotty the mouse) Aye. Hello computer." -- Scotty

    Even talking to a computer would be an interface..... a pretty complex one, though definitely one that could be considered intuitive, if you could use your chosen language for commanding it rather than some cryptic "ok, list the files, sort by date then name.... uh.... ok that one no that shit fucking computer where's my mouse"

  • Keyboard (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WhatsAProGingrass (726851) on Monday October 30 2006, @01:22AM (#16639035) Homepage
    His keyboard Idea sounds pretty cool. I would like to see some more practical applications than what he showed. Games would be cool with this interface. I think the idea is great, moving objects on your screen as if they were actually on your desk. But gestures will still need to be learned. Also, we would all get neck problems from staring down all the time at the screen rather than looking straight ahead. All in all, this technology seems very interesting.
    • Come on, mods. Don't mod parent offtopic.

      Anyway, man, here's the YouTube video [youtube.com] which I was able to watch (also running Linux with an older Flash version).
    • What do you mean Windows only? Works fine on my Mac.

    • Re:Windows only thanks to Flash requirement (Score:4, Insightful)

      by daeg (828071) on Monday October 30 2006, @12:58AM (#16638919)
      What were they supposed to do, write a transcript so you could read it with Lynx? Or maybe offer the entire video is an animated GIF?

      Not everything can be fully accessible to everyone.

      I'd wager that having it as Flash video makes it more accessible to more people than say, embedding it with other proprietary video software like Windows Media Player or Real Player, or even offering the file for direct download using some codec that you assume everyone has (not everyone can offer 10 different encoded videos so you can watch it on fringe systems). Flash video is, fortunately or unfortunately, the lowest common denominator across the widest variety of systems at this point.
      • Ok....Slashdot must be borked.....all of these replies to my comment about stuff only working on windows (by the way, the link works just fine if you have the new Flash 9 Beta) and I didn't even say anything about it except that this whole posts is OLD NEWS!

    • Really, "interface" was not the right word at all. The touchscreen and gestures are the interface. The word he was looking for was "widgets" or specifically "scrollbars".

      Additionally while it was neat, it's not suited for everything. It would work great for playing with Xgl or graphical things, but it's not going to help much when writing code, papers, spreadsheets, and generally all the things most people do most of the day.

      As for RSI, he doesn't seem to be much of an ergonomics expert... typing on

      • Additionally while it was neat, it's not suited for everything. It would work great for playing with Xgl or graphical things, but it's not going to help much when writing code, papers, spreadsheets, and generally all the things most people do most of the day.

        I'm not sure about this. In the photo library application demo, he brought up a keyboard with his hands, typed out a label for a photo, and put it away, in fewer than 10 seconds.

        It seems pretty widely adaptable and convenient, especially if we can make

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by oGMo (379)

          I'm not sure about this. In the photo library application demo, he brought up a keyboard with his hands, typed out a label for a photo, and put it away, in fewer than 10 seconds.

          Right, but again, this was a demo application that was designed to look neat and take advantage of the multitouch screen... not be useful. How much time a day do you spend rearranging your photos on a lightboard? While it looked cool, it didn't do much. You couldn't sort, there was no categorization, no album interface, no wa

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