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Video Projector on a Chip?

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wed Aug 23, 2006 06:31 PM
from the new-annoying-cell-phone-gadgets dept.
Stile 65 writes "Cornell researchers have made a 0.2mm-squared mirror mounted on carbon fibers that can oscillate at 2.5KHz, 'caus[ing] a laser beam to scan across a range of up to 180 degrees.' These can be mounted on a chip, and in combination with lasers, arrays of such mirrors on a chip can be made into a video projector. From the article: ''"It would be an incredibly cheap display," [Cornell grad student Shahyaan] Desai said. And the entire device would be small enough to build into a cell phone to project an image on a wall."' This display is made possible because of the innovative use of carbon fiber instead of silicon in MEMS. Unlike a standard DMD, this type of device would have one mirror per scanline, not one mirror per pixel, allowing the chip to be much smaller."
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  • Wow! (Score:5, Funny)

    by popeguilty (961923) <popeguilty@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:40PM (#15966464)
    Finally, the resolution of a cellphone VDU on a screen the size of a bedsheet! Amazing!
  • Prediction: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The MAZZTer (911996) <megazzt@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:45PM (#15966484) Homepage
    Virus that causes porn movies to randomly play through this display on cell phones. Man that would be embarrassing in a public place like a mall or something. Which is exactly why someone is going to make it.
  • by peter303 (12292) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:47PM (#15966500)
    The largest silicon chips approach a billion devices at a cost of $0.0001 cent per device. What is the manufacturing efficiency of carbon fibre?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      The largest silicon chips approach a billion devices at a cost of $0.0001 cent per device.

      And that's why LCD displays cost about a buck.

      What is the manufacturing efficiency of carbon fibre?

      The carbon fiber in a thirty dollar fishing pole is measured in kilometers. In this device the carbon fiber elements are measured in microns. Only one device per scanline is needed.

      As per my first sentence generally manufacturing costs swamp materials costs when building per unit, but as per my fourth sentence a 1024x768
  • by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:50PM (#15966516) Homepage Journal
    What does this have? Phosphors hold their brightness a little bit, down a reducing curve. This sort of display would have the scan line refresh issue of CRTs without the benefit of the fade curve, the light disappears immediately, so then it's just retina response time. I would expect that this would have to have a pretty high refresh rate to not be annoying. Will this allow three-chip operation? Consumer DLPs have a "rainbow effect" because only one chip flashes out the red, green and blue parts of the image. This doesn't bother everyone but I suspect that this system will have similar laments.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Since it uses one fibre per scane line the oscillation rate is the same as the refresh rate.
    • by Veldcath (591080) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @07:18PM (#15966637) Homepage
      If you read the article, they are talking about having one mirror per scan-line... and talking about oscillating the mirrors at a rate of 2.5 kHz. So it would be drawing 2,500 times a second. And they're also saying it would be one mirror per line, so you'd be seeing the entire display refresh 2,500 times a second. Considering that movies are projected at twenty four frames per second and our persistance of vision handles that with relative ease, I suspect a scan rate of 2.5 kHz would be more than adequate to create a very solid-looking image.

      -V
      • The 24fps and the 2,500 times per second refer to two different things. If you stop the projector from rolling, the image would remain. Each image is persistant. But if you stop the laser from moving, the image would vanish. Each "frame" is limited not by the speed of the laser, but by the length of time that the light is burned onto your retina.
      • Considering that movies are projected at twenty four frames per second and our persistance of vision handles that with relative ease,

        Minor correction... Film is recorded at 24fps, but each frame is then projected/displayed twice, so the refresh rate is 48 frames/sec.

        Most people's eyes would indeed have a problem with a 24 frames/sec refresh rate.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Have you ever taken a picture of a CRT with a camera? Unless you drop the shutter speed real low you only get an inch of the displayed picture. The parts directly before the inch of graphics are not faded, but rather completely black. The visual dropoff for the pixel is extremely quick, and the dropoff for your retinas is by far slower. A laser based device would have to be about 75hz not to cause noticable flickering, just a CRT.
  • No^2 (Score:4, Informative)

    by imsabbel (611519) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:51PM (#15966521)
    No, its not such a new and great idea. Schneider was building a project "laser tv" 15 years ago.

    and

    No, they are missing one thing: Brighness still does need power. While lasers have become more efficient, and the lifetime of blue ones doesnt suck anymore (thanks to lots of $$ invested by storage companies), there is still physics to play with:

    with a perfect display screen, you need at least 15W (rough estimate, dont care to converte the lumens right now) of photon power per m^2 to get a usable picture.
    That of course would mean you would need those 15W in Laser emitters. As tubes are prohibitively expensive, that means diods. Diods are a _bit_ heat sensitive (they die like flies if anything is not to their liking), and i havent seen 5W or higher diods without a good cooling solution (because they will still protuce 2 times as much heat as light, and that in a very small volume.

    Not to mention the little fact that a single 1W blue laser diode right now would be more expensive than a HD-Dlp beamer (plus it would degrade quickly to unusability).

    • No ^ 3 (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes you need a lot of power, but you do not need all that power in a single coherent beam.

      Since the image has a fibre per scanline you can use lots of low power laser diodes.
    • Thank you, that was my question. The biggest issue with projectors seems to be cost, output, and efficiency of the light source itself. Unless the lasers are far more efficient than the lamps used in today's projectors (which aren't bright enough yet require a noisy fan), I don't see how the problem could be solved. I REALLY wish we could get reflective instead of emissive displays!
  • by User 956 (568564) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:52PM (#15966526) Homepage
    "It would be an incredibly cheap display," [Cornell grad student Shahyaan] Desai said. And the entire device would be small enough to build into a cell phone to project an image on a wall." This is just what we need. There's already people on the subway that use the speaker on their phone to subject everyone to their poor taste in music. Now we'll have people subjecting everyone to their poor taste in television as well.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      And the entire device would be small enough to build into a cell phone to project an image on a wall." This is just what we need.

      Actually, it is just what we need, if the goal is to replace personal computers with cell phones. Imagine 10 or 20 years from now, ugly beige boxes have gone the way of the VCR and everybody just carries their "PC" with them in their pocket wherever they go. Wireless Internet access is available everywhere, of course, and while you can still use the small screen on the train, yo

  • by Durrok (912509) <calltechsucks&gmail,com> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:54PM (#15966535) Homepage Journal
    *phone rings*
    *display activates*
    Princess Leia: Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope!

  • by kemo_by_the_kilo (971543) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:57PM (#15966553)
    so, in 5 years will princess leia send me a video message?
    • "Help me Kemo_by_the_kilo, you're my only hope......I am the princess of an aquabarian abbassador who was killed in..."

      or

      "Help me Kemo_by_the_kilo, you're my only hope is what your woman will say with your new prehensile penis!"
  • ... the entire device would be small enough to build into a cell phone to project an image on a wall
    I am generally impressed. Their claim that this would be very cheap is credible. However, what kind of cell phone is going to have the power to do video projection?
  • by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland AT yahoo DOT com> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:59PM (#15966560) Homepage Journal
    give a power point presentation to the other people on the bus!
  • How many lumens could a cell phone generate? Projecting on the palm of your hand, sure. Projecting on a wall from say, 6 feet? That's a lot of light energy, my friend. At best, It would have to be a very very dark room.
  • by posterlogo (943853) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @07:27PM (#15966674)
    You still need a light source -- in this case, lasers. Yes, I know you can get red lasers dirt cheap, but any thing else is very expensive. A laser light source operates at a defined wavelength, and although you cannot easily generate the full spectrum of colors from a single laser. You can get a red, green, and blue laser to potentially mix to generate the full visible spectrum, but the green and especially the blue lasers are very expensive. Also, size does matter -- it is difficult to pack bright light power sources into a small space, like say a cell phone. The techology leap forward here is great in principle, but the phrase "Video projector on a chip" is incorrect, since only the mirrors are on the chip, not the light source.
    • All true. Even still, you wouldn't need a lens or any parts dealing with focusing the light - unlike a standard projector.

      So while you might not be talking about cellphone size, you'd still be talking about vastly shrinking the size of current projectors - a lot of whose size and weight is currently taken by optics.

      Still...you're not going to see me buying one of these for a long time.

      Tiny motors have "breaks easily" written all over them (although its too small to see).

  • Cheaper TVs? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dosius (230542) <lyricalnanoha@dosius.ath.cx> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @07:30PM (#15966693) Journal
    I'd like to see if a regular, broadcast TV could be designed to use one of these and project on my wall, and how well it would rival current home theater setup.

    -uso.
  • by GreyPoopon (411036) <`gpoopon' `at' `gmail.com'> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @07:53PM (#15966785)
    From the article...
    "You need something incredibly stiff to oscillate at a resonant frequency of 60,000 times a second (the line-scanning rate of most video displays)..."
    Desai first showed that micrometer-scale carbon fibers can bend like tiny fishing rods by more than 90 degrees and can be made to vibrate billions of times without breaking down.
    So, even at 500 billion times, that would be a lifetime of only 2314 hours?? No thanks. Please post again when they get it up to 10,000.

    "Carbon is normally a brittle material," Desai said, "but in the fiber form it resists breakage. We have some data implying that if it lasts three and a half days it's going to last forever."
    There's science for you...
    • Perhaps the material acts like steel instead of aluminum (I'm not a big CF guy, I don't know). Steel has a limit where it can withstand "infinite" cycles of low stress. Aluminum just keeps degrading each cycle 'til it fails. The term is...damned it...too late to think tonight. Chances are, they figure if the stresses don't make it fail after 10^6 cycles (or whatever they use) it's hit its proportional limit (shit, it that the term I was looking for?) and it won't fail, except due to growth of fatigue cracks
  • I was thinking about a project like this when I was a wee little kid. Back then I though that you could send the scan thru an oscillating crystal, but it never would have worked out. Oh and the fact that a blue laser (or full color?) was in the 10's of thousands of dollars.

    But more importantly was how to solve the Vertical scan issue?

    Simple, A hexagonal mirrored surface (add more surfaces, get a higher refresh rate).

    This way you only need the one horizontal high-speed scan, and a 'relatively' slow Vertical
  • Hello Virtual Boy (Score:4, Informative)

    by KalvinB (205500) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @10:57PM (#15967450) Homepage
    The Virtual Boy had a single column of LEDs and a vibrating mirror for each eye.

    It looks like they've replaced LEDs with lasers and more of them.

    I'm still waiting for cheap small (2" max in width/height) high resolution (640x480 min) LCD displays so we can finally hook up head mounted 3D displays to our next gen game consoles that have dual video out so you can hook one console up to two TVs for dual player action/wide screen action or to one pair of 3D glasses so we can view our 3D games in 3D.
  • Unlike a standard DMD, this type of device would have one mirror per scanline, not one mirror per pixel, allowing the chip to be much smaller.

    Wouldn't doing things by scanlines mean lower resolution overall without massive scanning capability to split lines into individual pixels? If not that, then would the power consumption made by such a theoretically small device not be great anyways in order to process this kind of information?

    I only ask because I am curious, and I don't understand much about th
    • Nice! Where can I get an evaluation kit? I'd like to try developing with these.
    • by DanMc (623041) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @06:44PM (#15966479)
      Agreed! Although Light Blue Optics Ltd's devices aren't available on the market yet, and they claim to have no mirrors, prisms, or moving parts. I poked around in Feb when LBO announced their laser projector tech. I couldn't believe no one had tried to make a cheap laser/mirror scanning projector. I found some patents on the technology from the 70's that appear to be used by companies doing the "Pink Floyd laser light show" type devices. They just don't understand what they have could be used to kill off the multi-million dollar LCD projector market, home theater, and even win the LCD/Plasma/OLED/etc TV wars.
      • by aethera (248722) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @08:53PM (#15967043)
        You mean Laser Video. [wikipedia.org] It's here, its just not there yet. I worked for a while for one of those "Pink Floyd" laser light show companies, actually one of the biggest in the world, and we were all trying to make laser video a reality five years ago, even a decade ago. Laser video would have higher brightness and no distortion, even if projected onto angled or curved surfaces, and incredible colors if:
         

        we could get the scan rate higher. The optics just hum drawing those lines (laser video isn't vector scanned like most entertainment laser applications). The beam from a laser big enough to do outdoor video might be 1/16th of an inch or bigger before it even leaves the projector head. So even a mirror just 1/8th wide is needed to scan the beam. And that mirror has to move stop and redraw thousands of times a second. One mirror rotating for horizontal refresh, one galvonmeter for vertical drawing (this is the part that gets really sticky on a big screen) and an AOM for the color changes (a custom grown crystal that will vibrate at different frequencies when in the presence of an RF signal, thus blanking the beam (turning it off and on) and diffracting it (picking the color).

        Also, if we could get the color right. Solid state lasers are helping here quite a bit, though the blue lines could still use more brightness. But until the big solid state lasers come down in price, a lot of the pros (and I don't mean the guy who did the lasers at your rave) are still dependent on their ancient SpectraPhyscics 171. Three phase power, a fire hydrant's worth of water, a drain, two men to carry the exciter, two to carry the head, two to carry the projector, and thats just one laser. Our small shows had three (one for full color graphics, two for beams in the air). Mosat guys are now using sold state yags for their beam effects. The solid state full colors are pricey. I believe the laser show at Hershey Park is using a full color solid state laser, I don't know who else, its been a few years.
           

        That being said, laser video is starting to show up in more and more places, and it is looking really good. Just don't expect to be putting one in your living room any time soon. Aside from the cost, lasers are heavily regulated in the US. One bright enough to replace your tv is going to require a whole host of permits from the CDRH (Center for Devices and Radiological Health) and your state, plus don't even think about doing your own laser display outside, the FAA's paperwork will make your head spin.
            PS, apologies to all the laser jocks if I got something horribly wrong, its been a few years for me, its late, I have a screaming infant and I'm doing this all off the top of my head.

        • Since it's monochromatic, rather than having a moving mirror, you could instead have an LCD and display a diffraction grating on it. Then as you change the diffraction grating, you move where the pixel is pointing. It's been done, at least at low energies.

          I'm not sure quite what you mean by a "full colour laser". You can have three colour laser beams - one in R, one G and one in B. However ideally for full colour representation you want 5 beams. This is because it's monochromatic and the eye's sensors o
        • One mirror rotating for horizontal refresh, one galvonmeter for vertical drawing (this is the part that gets really sticky on a big screen)...

          This might be a silly question, but why couldn't you just have the light from the horizontally-rotating mirror bounce off a vertically-rotating mirror, instead of a galvonometer-controlled one?
        • It's here, its just not there yet.

          Where exactly is it supposed to be?

      • On the contrary -- They're complete garbage, like everything Bose makes. Just my subjective opinion of course... But listen to these Bose things and then go into a proper hi-fi shop and listen to a real pair of big, floor-standing speakers. There is simply no comparison, and I mean that in a literal sense. The Bose products are completely embarrassing.
        • There's an expression in the audio industry: "No highs, no lows? Must be Bose." That said, the expression is a bit outdated. These days, they've pretty much gotten the highs.... :-)

          In short, you're right. Smaller Bose speakers can't compare with a larger driver. The reason is that lower frequency sounds are less directional. This means that they have to be much louder to be header at any useful distance (which is why your headphones lose their bass response very quickly as you pull them away from yo

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            "Volume of air moved" is the wrong way to think about speakers (because its a meaningless construction in terms of physics). The correct way is in terms of impedance matching, i.e. efficiency of power transfer across the spectrum between the driver and the medium (e.g., open air, an ear (circumaural headphones), an ear canal (insert headphones), water (hydrophone), etc)

            A large cone attached to a driver is one way to get good impedance matching for delivery of a low frequency, but not the only one and not n
      • Oh, that's easy by comparison. Use 1/4" thick piano strings at extremely low tension, and maybe raise the bridge a bit.... The problem is making it be as LOUD as a double bass. :-D

        The bow would have to be light as a feather to avoid changing the pitch of the string radically at the tension involved, and because of the low tension and the light bow, you'd have to put pickups in the bridge and the player would have to play using headphones in order to hear any sound. :-)

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      About the same as a common laser pointer 5mW is a lot of laser light at least in red, not sure how much more you'd need for a decent green or blue laser so let's guestimate 25mW total for indoor usage, a 1/2 W would probably handle outdoors in almost direct daylight I'd guess. These figures are very reason considering what a plasma display or a LCD projector would consume.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Green would actually need to be a lot less power, since your eyes are much more sensitive to green than anything else. A 5mW green YAG looks a hell of a lot brighter than a 5mW red diode, for instance. Similarly, you're less sensitive to blue, so the blue component would have to be ramped up to compensate. I've yet to see any low-cost solid-state blue units yet, though.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Well, they're talking about two things, they probably mean that the modulus of elsticity (the "stiffness", based on Young's Modulus, expressed in psi or pascals) is double that of silicon, but the yield point, or flexibility (how far it can bend before it permanently deforms) is 10 times that of silicon. It's a dumbing down of the mechanical properties using common language and, no, it really doesn't make sense the way they've presented it if you try and apply logic to the langugae they've used.
    • You got marked troll and I can see why though strangely enough, and my karma is going to scream, I agree with you. I've almost had enough of these awesome new gadgets that really don't go any where and it's nothing new as my father complains about it too and has been for the last fourty years. I want Sci-Fi gadgets and I don't want all of this stuffing around and hype only for it to fall off the face of the earth and be reinvented ten years later. To further the post above: Make it happen or bugger off t