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Dangerous Apple Power Adapters?
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sun Aug 13, 2006 01:40 PM
from the well-thats-just-no-good dept.
from the well-thats-just-no-good dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Even with all these exploding Dell notebooks and other notebook safety problems, Apple has seemed relatively immune. Every once in a while, some odd thing came along, but it seemed like relatively calm waters. Not anymore — Apple's notebook power adapters appear to be the source of some serious safety concerns. Every iBook and PowerBook user should read this and keep a close eye on their adapter — the adapters suffer from very poor design including wires that seem prone to short out and burn and zero short circuit protection."
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Not poor design (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not poor design (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not poor design (Score:3, Funny)
The thought that one of Apple's many chinese hardware subcontractors could possibly have made a boo boo in a small batch is utterly inconcievable!11!!!!
I say anyone who questions the quality of Apple's hardware is an M$ shill.
Re:Not poor design (Score:3, Interesting)
So then, as somebody named Whiney Mac Fanboy, I understand very well that you know who is a shill and who is not a shill. However, the author states:
Re:Not poor design (Score:5, Interesting)
I know everyone always claims to be gentle on their machines, but when I look at other people's laptops -- I suspect the truth is much rougher. Anyway, don't yank the adapter around by its cord and I bet it'll fine.
Parent
Re:Not poor design (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Look at Country of Origin (Score:4, Interesting)
One thing that we know about China is that (1) it has few laws ensuring product safety and (2) that Beijing rarely enforces those laws. As a result, many products from China are just dangerous.
Consider the recent case of lead contamination of children's toys [chicagotribune.com]. The toys had 5x the amount of lead that is considered safe.
Now, consider the case of a bracelet that was 99% lead [bbc.co.uk]. A Chinese company made the bracelets for Reebok. A child who accidentally ingested the bracelet died.
Now, consider Chinese honey that is contaminated with a dangerous antibiotic [ens-newswire.com].
Here is the summary reduction. The price of a product imported from China is $X. The price of a product made in the USA is $Y. Generally, $X is much less than $Y. The difference in price represents the "cost" that you paying for tough, enforced regulations and for higher ethical standards. Most American consumers do not want to pay this cost directly, so Walmart (a.k.a. the clearinghouse for Chinese products) prospers. Still, most Americans do pay this cost indirectly via, e.g., higher medical bills.
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Re:Look at Country of Origin (Score:4, Insightful)
Tom
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Re:Look at Country of Origin (Score:3, Insightful)
Whatever put you under that impression? Many of Apple's machines are made by the same manufacturing company as Dell's machines and many of their products use the same key components (like their monitors, etc...). Apple's are just generally designed more thoughtfully. This is even true of the power adapters, which often have nicetie
Re:Apple adapter puts nasty load on inverters (Score:5, Informative)
It's to do with the current waveform. Any switchmode supply tends to have a very spiky current load, as it switches on an off to keep the output voltage stable. A cheap switcher, if it's lightly loaded, will draw huge spikes of current only in the early part of each half-cycle - so it's current load looks just like one or two noise spikes, which get absorbed by any output filtering &/or ignored the protection circuitry in the source UPS/inverter.
A better switcher, on the other hand, will spread that current draw over the each half-cycle - so it's current load looks like a continuous noise hash to the supply. Enough hash to get back past any output filtering on the UPS / inverter and trigger the protection circuitry.
Hence the reason any decent UPS or inverter has specific warnings and / or deratings when used with switchmode loads.
(Yup, that's a simplified explanation - but it's also basically correct...)
In your case, it would probably work better with a smaller inverter, or a cheaper & nastier one without such good protection circuitry
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Missing last line... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Missing last line... (Score:5, Funny)
Dlugar
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Re:Missing last line... (Score:4, Informative)
Damn, this pisses me off. The correct tag is "!fud", RTFM. [slashdot.org]
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Re:Missing last line... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Missing last line... (Score:3, Funny)
Then again, I'm using Mac and Linux machines where "antialiasing" means something other than "blur" (and where "power adapter" means "timebomb" apparently).
Apple G3 power adapter recall (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple had a power adapter safety recall by the Consumer Product Safety Commission [cpsc.gov] back in the G3 era, and a battery recall last year. Is this a new problem?
Ah. Another Dvorak-In-Training article. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Apple G3 power adapter recall (Score:4, Funny)
No. As you may recall, Apple had a power adapter safety recall by the Consumer Product Safety Commission back in the G3 era, and a battery recall last year.
Parent
No facts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No facts (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field (A) multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B) then multiply the result by the average out of court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of the recall, we don't do one.
However, with computers, there's usually no out of court settlements, as they can usually just replace the part, with no harm done to the user. Therefore, it's very rare that you will ever see a recall on computer equipment. It's almost always cheaper to fix the ones that come back with defects, and leave the rest in the field.
Parent
How many is "many"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's Dell got to do, got to do with it? (Score:5, Funny)
Dell and other PC notebooks suck and blow, but mostly Dell, cause that Dell guy said something bad about Apple, which makes them the worst. So we all know that Dells exploding and killing puppies and children is just another Tuesday.
Of course Apple has always been perfect. Many people even actually sit around wondering just how it is they stay so perfect. I know because I'm in a club. That's why it just boggles they mind that somehow something isn't perfect with the power adapter. Probably because they got it from Dell. So just know it's less than absolutely perfect and keep an eye on it.
Not exactly new (Score:5, Interesting)
1. the connector that plugs into the laptop did not have enough ribbing material, so it frayed easily.
2. the thin cable that runs from the laptop into the brick had zero ribbing, it just simply ran into a hole. Frayed easily, I even had one catch fire.
After three Apple laptops I even started noticing how Apple tried to attack these problems. If you look at the last power supply shipped before the magnetic connectors came out, you will see that the "thin" cable is almost twice as thick as the one that shipped with iBook G3s and Titanium Powerbooks. You will also notice much thicker ribbing at both ends of that cable.
The worst of this is that the apple branded adapters were $79 apiece, while a perfectly working replacement, with much sturdier cables, could be had for $35.
Re:Not exactly new (Score:3, Funny)
I owned a Dell laptop that never caught fire.
Blogs = Science? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuss about nothing - not just apple laptops. (Score:3, Interesting)
I was wearing boxers and the shorting wires were against my naked leg when i discovered the problem, so I have limited sympathy for this guy with his burnt paper.
Re:Fuss about nothing - not just apple laptops. (Score:3, Informative)
So I tore it apart to repair/replace it, and I was amazed that when I removed the plastic jacket of the cord, the outer braid (the ground conductor) of the cord fell to the desk in a pile of a milllion little 3mm long pieces of copper strand. The braid had just shattered from repeated bending, and when I just shook the cord there was NO coppe
Count me in, I'm one (Score:4, Interesting)
About a month later my motherboard died. Again everything covered under AppleCare.
Guy is not an EE (Score:5, Informative)
Here's what he says: Meaning, I can short the adapter on the DC side, generate a spark, and repeat again and again without causing the adapter to power off or any circuit breaker/fuse/GFCI outlet to cut the power.
He's expecting the wrong results. Sure, shorting any supply with output capacitors will generate a spark -- that's typical good design. The spark doesn't last long and it isn't indicative of the total energy released.
Now, if his circuit breaker or fuse triggered, I'd be concerned. That means the adapter is shorting out the mains voltage -- very bad, very dangerous. But, it apparently is not. It's good that this doesn't happen, but the guy seems to think it should. And a GFCI wouldn't trigger due to a hot-neutral short [wikipedia.org] -- he would have to throw the adapter in a bathtub to have a chance of it tripping.
I'm not saying there are no problems with the adapter, but his assertion is unsupported by his evidence. I suspect that the adapter has an internal short-circuit protection that kicks in milliseconds after the spark is seen. He would need to use a current meter to detect if the circuit exists.
(why, yes, I'm an electrical engineer)
Re:Guy is not an EE (Score:3, Insightful)
this is very true. (Score:4, Interesting)
Shameful -- and doubly a shame because this PowerBook (one of the original Aluminum PowerBooks) has proven to be a champ for over two years.
~jeff
An anonymous reader? (Score:5, Insightful)
"I'm currently starting up an exciting new company, Zink Foods. We are poised to revolutionize your perception of "healthy food" by combining taste and nutrition in a completely unprecedented way. Finally, real food, real taste, real nutrition!"
This sounds like a real expert that we should listen to? I guess it's not that hard to use slashdot to drive up your pageviews afterall.
Fud (Score:5, Interesting)
3rd party power adapter (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:3rd party power adapter (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
FWIW... (Score:3, Informative)
I cut and stripped the wire with a pair of fingernail clippers, twisted it back together, and wrapped it back up with the duct tape. Several months ago the duct tape came loose and the wire shorted again. I re-spliced it, and wrapped it with Scotch tape, which was all I had on hand at the time. About a month ago the Scotch tape started coming off (as I had known it would), so I retaped it with white electrical tape.
I do freelance IT work, and haul my iBook everywhere. My power cord gets unplugged, wound up, stuffed into a backpack, unwound and plugged in somewhere else pretty frequently. Even when completely shorted out, all it did was make a clicking noise. The adapter brick can get pretty warm, especially when it's not well ventilated, but not uncomfortably so.
Please keep in mind that most of us never have a problem, even in unusual circumstances.
You can only abuse your suppliers for so long... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, there is an option (c) that basically says they will cut just a few too many corners so that they can only just meet the bare minimum requirements and stick it back to their abusive customer. This is, at least in part, what you're seeing today.
TANSTAAFL...
If there is no lawsuit, it is not widespread (Score:5, Funny)
his GFCI comments are off base... (Score:5, Interesting)
It would never trigger an AFCI, because there's too much smoothing circuitry between the output and the wall plug. No matter, as an AFCI is designed to protect against arcs in the walls and frayed AC power cords. So the AFCI comment didn't make sense.
Also, the GFCI comment doesn't make sense either. A GFCI is supposed to notice power being drawn and not returned on the neutral. The Apple power supplies are designed to be 2-prong devices, so they could never dump significant power on the ground pin and trigger a GFCI. The only way it could trigger a GFCI is if you shorted the live end of the cable to a separate return, like earth ground or a hot tub or whatever. Then the power would not come back on the neutral and would trigger the GFCI.
Anyway, a GFCI is supposed to prevent against things like dropping a live appliance into a puddle of water or whatever, not shorts internal to low voltage cables.
His spark test maybe means something, I see what he is talking about there. But I'm not sure about his testing methodology. Maybe he's testing a case expecting it to shut down and instead Apple just current limits, which is an acceptable alternative. I just can't tell with only the data on that page.
The article summary is definitely full of unwarranted hyperbole. The article isn't even close to triggering a level of "source of some serious safety concerns".
Dare I say "Me Too"? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a photo on our blog too:
http://homepage.mac.com/skingsley/xemaybe/C193547
About 4 headlines in.
You'll notice from the blog I'm pretty much an Apple Fan Boi (tm) but even I in my Appleuphoria can see that this is a problem.
IMPORTANT: A solution already in the box. (Score:3, Informative)
However, I decided to inspect the adapter, detached the A/C plug, which snaps on and off the corner of the adapter, and was horrified to notice it was thoroughly charred on the inside. Then, I vaguely recalled that a power cord came with the iBook, in the box. This is what I'm talking about: http://www.shentech.com/aprepog4ib65.html [shentech.com]
To my great relief, the new power cord snapped neatly into the corner slot of the adapter, and ran smoothly. It was the detachable A/C plug that was defective, not the adapter itself. Now, not only could we throw the defective plug where it belongs (in the trash), we also had made our device safe, as well as doubled the length of the cord, and saved ourselves $80.00 to boot! My wife and I were happy campers that day.
So, if you have an Apple laptop, check this out for yourselves and I'm sure it will allow you to solve/avoid this exact problem, and even if it's not malfunctioning yet, do it now, no use putting your expensive computer at risk. Also, even if you've misplaced the box and/or cannot find the power cord, buy that instead, as it's price starts at around $10.00, saving you quite a bit of cash in the process.
Re:why oh why (Score:5, Funny)
No. She smells of inflatable plastic.
Parent
Here are some technical details: (Score:5, Interesting)
The power rating of these power bricks is 45W (for my iBook). Fourtyfive watts. If you concentrate that amount of electricity in a small volume, it is quite sufficient to set most synthetic materials alight. The possible exception being Teflon.
His comments (yes, I did RTFA) about the brick not having any kind of short circuit protection is groundless. He has experienced one type of SS protection, the type found in many large PC PSUs, which needs a power off to reset. Another type is the foldback, or current limiting SS protection circuit, which increases available power immediately after the short is removed. So it is no wonder that he could sense the power (by repeatedly shorting out the brick?! Asking for trouble, is he?) as soon as no short was present.
He would have a solid argument if he was able to draw an excessive current through the short, larger than, say, the 1.875A (45W @ 24V) the brick is specified for.
I just tried testing for this problem using the brick for my iBook, but failed miserably, since I don't have the proper connector to mate with the low voltage end: The thing won't even power on unless it is plugged into the iBook. This may be a design change since my brick is apparently of a more recent design as compared to the one shown in TFA.
So in summary the actual news items here are:
*) Frayed wire can short out.
*) A short may not be sufficient low ohmic to trip the power limiter in the PSU, yet the power you can draw through it may be sufficient to cause fires. (This is no different than for any other electrical appliance. AKA: Badly maintained electrical installations can kill you.)
*) Apple didn't employ sufficient strain relief at the point, where the power wire leaves the power brick.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Parent
Re:Here are some technical details: (Score:5, Informative)
Also of note, the "ufo" power adapters that shipped originally on the ibook G3s are much much worse. They are known for failure where the DC cord meets the computer plug and where the AC cord meets the connector that plugs into the pack. We have replaced many of them for failure at one of these two points. Though for all the macs I've worked on, I have yet to encounter a single apple pack that caught fire. This sounds like an isolated incident and someone trying to make a whole lot of noise, stomping about and shouting "defect, recall, save me!"
Given 50,000 production units of electronics, a couple of them are going to be bad. There is no escaping that. And yes, one of them might burn down your house. But a meteor might hit it first, and has roughly the same odds, OP needs to get over it.
Though I don't deny he needs to post about it, because this is how you find out about real issues. Now if we saw a dozen "me too" followups immediately we might want to look into this more, but right now we just have a blowhard.
Parent
Re:Here are some technical details: (Score:3, Informative)
That's true. I think it's something to do cracks or holes in the plastic. In every UFO PS at work, they'd die at the DC plug, and you can clearly see that the copper wire had oxidized and turned green.
Re:Here are some technical details: (Score:3, Interesting)
By far the worst unit I encountered for AC adaptor failure was the original PB190/5300 AC Adaptor. It had two primary points of failure:
Re:Here are some technical details: (Score:3, Informative)
Apple posted the schematics on their site! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lots of FUD... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have yet to see a single pack catch fire. And I've replaced quite a few of them. Damaged, yes. They definitely need to improve their strain reliefs, and magsafe is brilliant. But defective by design? Not from a safety perspective. They DO need to improve the strain reliefs though.
If one tire in 20,000 started to bulge on the sidewall after 30,000 miles, and the owner didn't notice it until 2 months later the tire blew, you can't blame that entirely on Goodyear. All products break, and the consumer does have a reasonable responsibility to identify a product that has failed and may create a safety hazard.
Now take the ibook g3 logic board recall. Now those I have seen maybe 4 dozen of. THOSE are defective. But THIS, this is just a blip.
Actually now that we have magsafe, I don't expect this to even happen once in a blue moon. The power cords are 2x as thick, and if you are a total yutz trying to use your macbook 5.95 feet from the wall using a 6.00 foot power cord, POP and out releases the magsafe before you can jack up your cord. Something tells me OP will just glue it in, break another cord, and cry for us some more.
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Re:Apple has ALWAYS (Score:4, Informative)
Networking over serial I/O was a reasonable choice for the time. Zilog had a chip that would do serial I/O at 230 kbps and Ethernet hardware was still very expensive.
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