Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Dell's Exploding Laptop Autopsy

Posted by Zonk on Fri Jul 14, 2006 06:34 PM
from the determining-the-cause-of-aaaughh dept.
Portables Hardware
An anonymous reader writes "Dell has gone to the Consumer Product Safety Commission looking for help determining the cause of death for its exploding laptop. Dell has been blaming the lithium ion battery; the commission seems to have had a few problems with those batteries in the past."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Laptop Explodes at Japanese Conference 531 comments
An anonymous reader writes "A laptop reported to be a Dell burst into flame and was caught on camera during a recent Japanese conference. Guess this laptop could be a poster child to prove that laptops really can cause sterility if they are on your lap."
[+] Apple: MacBook Pro Batteries Swelling and Failing 388 comments
JohnnyCakes writes "MacBook Pro batteries are apparently swelling, then failing. MacFixIt has some grotesque pictures of their own swollen MBP battery, which looks like it has suffered an internal explosion. Apple is replacing batteries on a case-by-case basis, but hasn't yet admitted any wide-scale issues."
[+] Dell Issues Laptop Battery Recall 170 comments
zoogies writes "The New York Times is reporting that Dell is now issuing a laptop battery recall — for notebooks sold between April 2004 and July 18, 2006. According to the article, 'The recalled batteries were used in 2.7 million computers sold in the United States and 1.4 million sold overseas. The total is about 18 percent of Dell's notebook production during the period in question.' This seems to go along with a June Slashdot story on an exploding Dell laptop, and a July Slashdot story on a Dell investigation into its exploding laptops. Curiously, there is nothing yet on Dell Support's product recall page about this latest recall."
[+] Alan Cox's Exploding Laptop 339 comments
Bowie J. Poag writes to mention a page put up to commemorate the explosion of Alan Cox's laptop. From the article: "Alan was on the other side of the room from the laptop. I was elsewhere. He yelled out, I ambled towards the room in my own good time, and then I heard 'Fire! Real fire! Call the fire brigade, now!' and I speeded up a bit. From Alan subsequently, I gather there was an explosion and flying pieces of laptop, and a fireball, and a couple of fires started where (presumably) boiling battery landed, and one fragment smashed an LCD monitor. And then there was smoke and smell (there is still smell) and smoke alarm wailing and firemen and sirens and paramedics (happily unneeded) and police and a man with a notebook asking questions for the fire report.'"
[+] Nanobatteries — Safer By Design 83 comments
Iddo Genuth writes "Conventional Li-Ion batteries have been known to catch fire and explode. A new, safer type of Li-Ion nanobattery that might help prevent such mishaps has been developed by researchers at Tel Aviv University. These nanobatteries should prove useful for various micro devices used for medical, military, and a range of other applications. They are 2-4 years from commercial availability."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Dell's Exploding Laptop Autopsy 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • So there are two cases now? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dubmun (891874) * on Friday July 14 2006, @06:35PM (#15722451) Homepage Journal
    The Inquirer published a letter to the editor on July 4, purportedly from a second Dell customer (identified only as "Rich S.," an IT administrator from Pittsburgh) who suffered an exploding laptop.
    Maybe it is time for Dell to think about issuing a recall before someone gets hurt. Just think if someone was using their laptop near a other flamable/explosive substances when suddenly BOOM!

    • Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:5, Informative)

      by andrewman327 (635952) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:43PM (#15722488) Homepage Journal
      Actually, they already have lists of the affected batteries online. They apply to many manufacturers, and not to some Dell computers. I will try to dig up the link, as this is not at all a direct problem with Dell.


      Computer companies make almost none of their own parts, and keeping track of what comes from where must be a nightmare. Dell will change battery type (maybe battery manufacturer as well) and this problem will start going away in new laptops. Hopefully the old ones will have battery recalls for the most dangerous types, but the recall will affect many companies.

      • Links! (Score:5, Informative)

        by andrewman327 (635952) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:50PM (#15722526) Homepage Journal
        For once my local NBC affiliate is really on the ball. They had a story about "exploding laptop batteries" months ago. I can't find the actual story, but here are two related links:

        1. HP laptops burning [nbc10.com]
        2. Cooked Apples [nbc10.com]
      • Actually it is a direct problem with Dell. It may be a problem with more companies as well, but as a purchaser of Dell I could care less about those.

        Blaming the battery is laughable. I guess what Dell is trying to say is that they [Dell] don't add any value to the parts the sell!?

        • Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Traiklin (901982) on Friday July 14 2006, @09:37PM (#15723091) Homepage
          Blaming the battery is laughable. I guess what Dell is trying to say is that they [Dell] don't add any value to the parts the sell!?
          and what happens if it is the battery that is to blame? Like the summery says this isn't the first time Lithium Ion batteries have caused problems.

          I dislike dell as much as the next guy (mainly I am tired of all prebuilt PC's anymore, they are so locked down and full of useless shit that I can't properly upgrade them) but when something isn't a company's fault then they shouldn't get the blame for it.

          I remember cell phones were blowing up in peoples pockets and when they were using them, was it the cell phone makers fault? no cause they said it was the batteries and it was proven to be the batteries, Was it laughable that they were blaming batteries instead of taking the blame for making a phone out of lower value parts?
          • I agree with you 100%. I used to work for a Lithium Ion Manufacturer for 4 years, and have seen first hand cells sponaneously combust. The R&D department is under so much pressure to increase the capacity of the cells, that they sometimes create an unstable product. Our biggest problem (2 years ago) was trying to get the components to not short against eachother when you cram them all into the can. Sure, each cell was x-rayed and inspected twice, but when you get an underpaid operator looking at pic
          • I remember cell phones were blowing up [...]they said it was the batteries and it was proven to be the batteries,
            IIRC the issue was cheap aftermarket batteries that were outside the control of the phone manufacturer.
    • For example, I know someone who works in the oil industry out in Alberta and drags a laptop around from site to site to help keep track of stats. I don't know how many issues they have with fumes at the rigs, but I can easily believe that an exploding laptop would cause problems.

      • Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:5, Informative)

        by andrewman327 (635952) on Friday July 14 2006, @07:22PM (#15722668) Homepage Journal
        "For example, I know someone who works in the oil industry out in Alberta and drags a laptop around from site to site to help keep track of stats. I don't know how many issues they have with fumes at the rigs, but I can easily believe that an exploding laptop would cause problems."


        Those computers are generally ruggidized to MilSpec (military specifications). Instead of using your friendly neighborhood Dell, he is probably using a Toughbook or similar unit. These are designed to operate without actually bringing air inside. There are a lot of rumours of these things actually stopping bullets in Iraq, though I can't seem to find a picture. I imagine that the batteries are just as tough, considering the operating enviroments they are designed for.

        • Bulletproof Laptop (Score:5, Informative)

          by SPQR_Julian (967179) on Friday July 14 2006, @08:46PM (#15722945)
          It took me some creative digging, but I found what you were talkingabout. I remember seeing the article in Popular Mechanics a couple years back when it first came out. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/compute rs/1279251.html [popularmechanics.com]
          • Wow, and I thought that I was a good researcher! Good searching. That is what I was talking about as far as oil field electronics systems and other rugged and sensative applications.
        • "Those computers are generally ruggidized to MilSpec"

          ..aaah, not so much. I worked in the gold industry in Australia on and off for 10 years, and while you did indeed see the occasional toughbook, it was usually in the hands of that industry's answer to the PHB, busily showing off his uselessly-expensive new toy and never seeing a spec of dust; more rarely in the hands of a geologist in remote exploration camps. Actual production sites (ie places where we actually bogged dirt out of the ground) used the
        • Those computers are generally ruggidized to MilSpec (military specifications). Instead of using your friendly neighborhood Dell,...

          In general, they probably are Dells or maybe IBM/Lenovos. For the most part, the industry has "ruggedized" computers for some very specialized apps (such as mounting them on forklifts), but in the field, they emphasize safe behaviors - i.e., know which areas are classified as explosive and don't use certain equipment there. There will be a lot of people that say that human nat

  • Lithium ion battery? (Score:5, Funny)

    by yourOneManArmy (986080) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:36PM (#15722457)
    I think you mean lithium ion cannon.

  • Li-Po use in RC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Spiked_Three (626260) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:46PM (#15722501)
    I play with a lot of R/C stuff - planes, helicopters etc. And the warnings about Li-Po batteries are pretty explicit. If you where to crash a plane with a Li-PO you need to set the battery in a fire proof container and keep an eye on it for an hour or so. Also never charge Li-Po un-attended - people have burned down houses because of it.

    I suspect the laptop had a hard drop sometime in the not to distant past, got picked up, put on charge and kaboom.

    The question is what is the right thing to do? Ban the batteries or make better efforts in consumer education? In the R/C hobby we are smart enough (well the majority anyhow) to treat Li-Pos with respect - but consumer laptops, that's somewhat scary.

    http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm [laureanno.com]
    • it's not that you are 'smart enough' it's that peoplec are about there hobby, usually to a miniscule scale.

      I was surprised to find they where putting these in laptops.
      To answer your question, ban them from laptops. No governemtnregulation will be needed because I believe the risk od using these batteries is high then expected and that will cause the laptop manufacturers from producing them, eventually.

      And yeah, those batteries can get HOT.

    • Super happy fun ball (Score:4, Funny)

      by p51d007 (656414) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:52PM (#15722534)
      Kind of reminds me of an old saturday night live skit....... Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Fun Ball. Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds. Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, which if exposed due to rupture should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. Discontinue use of Happy Fun Ball if any of the following occurs: * Itching * Vertigo * Dizziness * Tingling in extremities * Loss of balance or coordination * Slurred speech * Temporary blindness * Profuse Sweating or * Heart palpitations If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head. Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types of skin. When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration. Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun Ball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company, Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability. Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space. Happy Fun Ball has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Happy Fun Ball comes with a lifetime guarantee.

    • Re:Li-Po use in RC (Score:5, Insightful)

      by asuffield (111848) <asuffield@suffields.me.uk> on Friday July 14 2006, @07:55PM (#15722783)
      And the warnings about Li-Po batteries are pretty explicit. ... In the R/C hobby we are smart enough (well the majority anyhow) to treat Li-Pos with respect - but consumer laptops, that's somewhat scary.


      Every consumer laptop comes with a thick book stating that each and every component may catch fire, explode, fail to work, cause the end of the world, kill your dog, or any number of other things, and it's your own damn fault if that happens and the manufacturer is not responsible. This means that nobody pays any attention to the 'safety' warnings, because 99% of them are total nonsense.

      Consumer education is impossible until the manufacturers stop crying wolf about everything.
      • Every consumer laptop comes with a thick book stating that each and every component may catch fire, explode, fail to work, cause the end of the world, kill your dog, or any number of other things

        The underwater housing for my digital camera warns that improper use can lead to risk of fire. (I had to read it twice.)

        It also warns that the housing should not be used as a personal flotation device... I'd like to see the incidents that led to these disclaimers.
    • I didn't even know about this. I am pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't know this either.
    • Also it's worth mentioning that Lithium batteries are susceptible to problems from overcharging and low voltage draw. I've had a Li-po battery almost explode (http://brightpanda.com/images/robots/0/exploded_l i-po_small.jpg), luckily it just ballooned. But this doesn't surprise me at all. The more energy we try to place inside a container for later use on demand the more potentially volatile it becomes. It's hard to get around that.

    • actually, I've seen the reverse.. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by YesIAmAScript (886271) on Friday July 14 2006, @08:47PM (#15722950)
      I work with Lion and Li-Poly batteries at work and in R/C.

      I find the RC folks are reckless when it comes to Li batteries. At work, the device that uses the battery has an overvoltage, over temp and undervoltage cutout in hardware in addition to overvoltage, over temp and undervoltage cutouts in software. The battery also has a hardware overcurrent and undervoltage cutout on the cell. This is because the device maker cannot afford to trust the battery and the battery maker cannot afford to trust the device maker, because LIons are just too sensitive to temp, voltage and current.

      RC folks meanwhile typically have software undervoltage cutouts but no hardware cutouts on the device. They remove the hardware cutouts on the cell. They use separate chargers that have software overvoltage and overcurrent cutouts and no temp cutouts.

      They are many many more times at risk than a consumer device. They get away with it by being careful themselves and because there are 1/100000th as many RC devices as consumer devices.

      As to your thing that batteries can blow up after having been in a crash, I don't know where that comes from. Unless the integrity of the pack is compromised, this won't happen. They don't turn into bombs merely by being shaken. If they did, you'd have exploding cell phones everywhere.

      Your charger should monitor the temp, current and voltage during charging. If a pack has developed an internal short due to physical damage, it should stop charging. But again, RC chargers seem to be less careful.

      (I have an Orbit Microlader. Earlier units were even more primitive!)

      • Re:actually, I've seen the reverse.. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Fishead (658061) on Friday July 14 2006, @10:59PM (#15723335)
        "As to your thing that batteries can blow up after having been in a crash, I don't know where that comes from. Unless the integrity of the pack is compromised, this won't happen. They don't turn into bombs merely by being shaken. If they did, you'd have exploding cell phones everywhere."

        If the cell dents, there is a possibility that the Anode can short to the Cathode through the thin insulative seperator. This will cause a short that the pack/device has no control over and you get fireworks.

        Or, the guts of the cell can shift and press into the bottom and short.

        Or (much less likely) if there is some impurity in the mix, it can cause it to shift and puncture the thin seperator.

        The cells are actually designed to permanently disconnect inside under certain circumstances to prevent (or at least minimize) crashing airplanes and killing children.
        • "As to your thing that batteries can blow up after having been in a crash, I don't know where that comes from. Unless the integrity of the pack is compromised, this won't happen."

          How many model airplane crashes can you imagine where this isn't the case?

          I've crased my electric Tiger Moth many times and never had a problem with the pack being physically damaged. And a visual inspection will tell you if the battery has been damaged. Simply shaking the thing up will not turn it into bomb, you'd have to damage i

  • It's the charger stupid.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by khb (266593) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:46PM (#15722504)
    That batteries can explode is no secret. Managing the charging correctly is critical ... and a battery which is on the road to exploding has lots of "markers" (fast heat rise, wrong charging profile, etc.).

    It seems to me that low margins are the root cause ... for the battery vendor to have QA practices that allow marginal batteries, and for Dell (since they are the ones being fingered, not because I know anything about their practices) to skip additional safety logic beyond whatever minimal standards the battery vendor has specified.
  • Now you know what happens when you win game# 11982 in FreeCell

  • Sounds like that joke. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Poromenos1 (830658) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:46PM (#15722508) Homepage
    This reminds me of an old joke. A redneck wanted to perform a vasectomy and went to the doctor, but the doctor told him to light up a cherry bomb, hold it and count to ten. The redneck didn't understand how this would help, but trusted the doctor, lit up the cherry bomb and started counting. When he got to five, he put the cherry bomb between his legs and resumed counting in the other hand.

    This is like that, without all the counting.
  • "Oh oh...must have been a Sanyo (battery)"

  • And now.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by stox (131684) on Friday July 14 2006, @06:50PM (#15722525) Homepage
    it is time for the penguin on top of your Dell to explode!

  • I'm not a big Dell fan... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by citking (551907) <jay&citking,net> on Friday July 14 2006, @07:01PM (#15722582) Homepage
    ...but I do applaud their willingness to at least show a hint of taking responsiblity for these problems. If there is a hint of them refusing to help people affected by this condition I haven't seen it yet, not out of ignorance but for not Googling it.

    Today I got a letter in the mail from my old insurance agency who is being sued in a class-action lawsuit regarding discrimination based on credit reports against the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Of course, the class action settlement included the phrase "xxx is admitting no wrongdoing in this case..." Maybe there wasn't any wrongdoing; I don't know. But this damned phrase has become so commonplace it was the first sentence I looked for when opening the letter with the details of the settlement.

    For once I'd like to see someone step up and take responsibility. The problem is these people read the same headlines I do every day in which some dumbass can sue for whatever reason they deem applies to them and win millions in a settlement.

    We can't have companies exposing themselves to such litigation (excepting that there is no real negligence there) and getting sued into obliion. But just once I want to see a company take the high road and say "Yeah, we fucked up. Sorry. What can we do to make it better?"

    Dell gets a smiley face in my daily repoirt card for this.

  • Gamers! (Score:5, Funny)

    by dpbsmith (263124) on Friday July 14 2006, @07:06PM (#15722608) Homepage
    Looking for explosive performance?

    You may find Dell's new laptop too hot to handle!

    It puts you in the middle of the action, with sound effects so real you'll swear you can feel them.

    Blazing action so intense it's practically assault and battery!

  • Plugged in? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shabushabu (961717) on Friday July 14 2006, @07:09PM (#15722623)
    I searched TFA but couldnt find the answer to what I believe is a critical question. Was the laptop plugged into an AC outlet when it exploded? If so, even a short could cause an explosion.

    On the other hand, if the battery exploded entirely by itself, a major recall is due...

  • Is this a problem with all lithium ion batteries, or just bad batches with even worse quality control? Is the design itself just prone to failure? I really don't know, just lithium ions are also being touted as the batteries to go to in plug-in hybrids, so this might set back that tech if the design itself is suspect.
    • All Lithium-ion batteries can make a real nasty mess when they go, but as with many batteries, the method of charging, storage, and charge+heat monitoring can cause the battery to become unstable more easily. Putting the battery near other hot components, with an improper charge monitor (overcharging), or in an area than generally leads to overheat can all greatly increase the chance of the battery going boom (not sure how that applies in this case)

  • Autopsy... (Score:3, Funny)

    by odie_q (130040) on Friday July 14 2006, @09:54PM (#15723139)
    So another Dell laptop is disecting the exploded one? Or did the editor not reflect over the meaning of 'auto' when phrasing the header?

    I'm guessing the first one.
  • I bet this is a new feature of WGA.
  • What if this laptop was on a commercial ailiner, would they be able to put the fire out, being on 10 feet from thousands of gallons of fuel.

    What if the laptop were in the baggage compartment? Would the exinguishersput out the fire in time.

    How many lithiumn batteries on on planes?

    Almost any lithium batter can start on fire if overloaded, or most batteries for that matter--even VRLA/SLA, but Lithium batteries in particular, becasue the lithium burns at a low tempature. Li-polymer batteries are supposed to be

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.