Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

12.8 Petabytes, You Say?

Posted by Hemos on Wed May 10, 2006 11:11 AM
from the will-it-happen dept.
MadUndergrad writes "Dr. Jonathan Spanier from Drexel University has come up with a novel way to greatly increase data storage density: water. Specifically, they propose using hydroxyl ions to stabilize minute ferroelectric wires. These wires could be many times smaller than what is possible today, enabling data densities in the neighborhood of 12-13 PB per cubic centimeter. While there are still many problems to be resolved before drives using these can be manufactured this technology does seem promising. For one thing, it would be non-volatile, but could apparently be made to act as RAM. The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Bah (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:12AM (#15301626)
    To me this idea sounds a little wet.
  • by TripMaster Monkey (862126) * on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:13AM (#15301629)


    A physics professor and his assistant are working on liberating negatively charged hydroxyl ions, when all of a sudden, the assistant says, "Wait, Professor! What if the salicylic acids do not accept the hydroxyl ions?" And the professor responds, "That's no hydroxyl ion! That's my wife!"
      • First, nice .sig

        Second, it's funny because it's not funny.

        Mod the parent '-1 Culturally Illiterate'
          • Hmm that's odd, according to this site being moderated funny does not increase Karma /. [slashdot.org] "Note that being moderated Funny doesn't help your karma. You have to be smart, not just a smart-ass.".

            So how exactly is he karma whoring?
      • by technoextreme (885694) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:42AM (#15301879)
        http://miru.deviantart.com/journal/ [deviantart.com]
        Here is the exact text:
        A physics professor and his assistant are working on liberating negatively charged hydroxyl ions, when all of a sudden, the assistant says, "Wait, Professor! What if the salicylic acids do not accept the hydroxyl ions?" And the professor responds, "That's no hydroxyl ion! That's my wife!"
        -Joke from Dexter's Laboratory

        I've always wanted to understand this joke, from many years ago. @___@;;;
        I was reminded of this joke today when we talked about hydroxyls in biology and chemistry. :XD:

        To liberate is to set free. The point of this joke is that it's saying that a negatively charged hydroxyl ion is equivalent to a professor's wife. Hydroxyls, which contain at least one hydroxide (-OH), are alcohols. Does the joke mean the wife is drunk?
        I then researched salicyclic acids and I found out that salicyclic acid is a plant hormone used as a medicine for acne. More importantly, it is a carboxylic acid. We learned in biology today that an ester linkage is formed between a carboxyl and a hydroxyl, and in this case, salicylic acid and hydroxyl ions create aspirin, the pain reliever.
        Now isn't that cool? :D
        Lastly, the hydroxyl ion is NEGATIVELY charged, so the wife has had an excess of alcohol.
        Basically, therefore, the professor was only trying to give some aspirin to his wife, who has a hangover.
        ROTFLMAO.

        Btw... I find it creepy that googling this returned six results.
  • by BenJeremy (181303) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:14AM (#15301635)
    I did not read the article, but I would imagine the usage would be limited by temperature ranges, for that matter, even simple exposure of the components.

    Imagine a device with this technology submitted to freezing temperatures?
  • by pryonic (938155) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:14AM (#15301640)
    It'd be pretty annoying if you came back from a run/heavy night's drinking (delete as suits you) and accidentally drank the backup of all your MP3s and pr0n to rehydrate you...
  • by spun (1352) <loverevolutionary AT yahoo DOT com> on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:16AM (#15301654) Journal
    I can't believe they would be so irresponsible as to use dihydrogen monoxide [dhmo.org] for data storage. That stuff is deadly!
    • I can't believe they would be so irresponsible as to use electricity to power a computer. That stuff is deadly!
    • It's no more deadly than hydric acid, which is the primary ingredient in many household cleaners.
    • by ConceptJunkie (24823) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:56AM (#15301981) Homepage Journal
      Doctors and scientists tell us that DHMO is so pervasive in our environment that it can be found in every factory, every business, even every house, in our food and in our bodies! Tests confirm that all softdrinks and bottled water contain large amounts of DHMO. You can even find it in baby formula!

      The average adult has something like 5x10^16 picograms of this stuff in his or her body, which is a much higher concetration than the EPA safe levels for lead, asbestos or most industrial solvents.

      Won't someone please think of the children?!

  • by isomeme (177414) <cberry@cine.net> on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:18AM (#15301671) Homepage Journal
    this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor.

    Until the heat sink fails.
  • Misplaced Optimism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZombieRoboNinja (905329) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:18AM (#15301673)
    "The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor."

    Um... the fact that this is coming from a university suggests to ME that it might be highly impractical, but of some academic interest.

    I mean, "university" may rank above "wacky fly-by-night startup looking to fleece investors" on the ol' Trust-o-meter, but the fact that a few academics are studying something certainly doesn't mean it's even potentially viable as a commercial product.
    • by NetDanzr (619387) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:52AM (#15301946)
      Um... the fact that this is coming from a university suggests to ME that it might be highly impractical, but of some academic interest.

      I fully agree. Having spent the last two years working in a business incubator associated with a major research university, I found the following life cycle of new technologies to be true in 95% of cases:

      1. Invent something, file an invention disclosure with the university and ask for patenting the idea.
      2. File for all grants you can get.
      3. Once you run out of grants, declare your intention to commercialize the technology.
      4. Secure some start-up funding, primarily in the form of SBIR/STTR grants and angel funding.
      5. Once funding is received, declare that the technology is not yet ready and go back to the lab to write more papers on your technology.
      6. Repeat and rinse.

      I've seen some really ground-breaking technologies in action. One was proven to decrease the level of emissions by 95%. Another promised to replace current heat sinks with a new design that would eliminate computer fans. Yet another has been around since the 1950s; the lead researcher has invented when he was a grad student. Unfortunately, most researchers at the school I was working at were aware of the fact that in the long term having a technology to work on for another decade or more was more lucrative than starting a company and ending with a miniscule ownership share after venture financing.

  • electrolysis? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fishyfool (854019) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:19AM (#15301677) Homepage Journal
    the water will have to be de-mineralized to eliminate conductivity.
      whats left is oxygen and hydrogen, with the electricity in the wires running through the wires be strong enough to create electrolysis?
    thats not what i'd call non-volatile.
    • that is a very valid point, i work in a nanotech lab. we are working on a project invoving CNTs carbon nanotubes) electrified in water. because of nanotube unique properties, any electrical field is greatly amplified. the small surface area of the nanotubes creates areas of extremely high voltage that can easily cause electrolysis.
  • Vaporware? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jmcharry (608079) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:19AM (#15301679)
    Prof. Jonathan Spanier is in Materials Engineering, so I would bet this is a lab demonstration of an effect that might be developed into a technology, not something likely to appear on store shelves in a year or two. Still, it is an important first step in that direction.
  • Obnoxious Cynicism (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jsailor (255868) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:19AM (#15301686)
    Sorry to be so cynical, but why do you put more merit behind something from a University? They're competing for research dollars and don't actually have to produce anything that works in the field or that they'll have to support for many years. In much the same way that corporations extend/enhance the truth to attract customers, Universities extend/enhance the truth to attract grants.

    Despite what my tone may reflect, I'm very curious to your thought process.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:21AM (#15301704)
    "The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor."

    You haven't attended university on our planet, have you?
  • Best tasting mineral water I've ever had! Has a funny aftertaste though...
  • University (Score:5, Insightful)

    by linuxwrangler (582055) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:22AM (#15301723)
    The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor.


    Like Pons & Fleishman's cold fusion? Like the recent Korean cloning fiasco? Like the forestry research papers that were pulled because of political and corporate pressure? Like so many others that have been in the recent news?

    Problem is that scientists and researchers can be corrupted by fame, fortune or pressure just like other humans.

    I'm not saying that this technology is bogus - I know nothing about the technology or the people involved. But the fact that it comes from a university doesn't offer any special guarantees in my book.
    • Like Pons & Fleishman's cold fusion? Like the recent Korean cloning fiasco? Like the forestry research papers that were pulled because of political and corporate pressure? Like so many others that have been in the recent news?

      Yes, just like those. The statement by MadUndergrad was, 'this gives me hope', not 'this must be true'.

      You make a good point, that science is always evolving, and that we should not stop questioning.... but in a very antagonistic way... could it be...

      Problem is that scienti

    • As a Drexel alumnus, I can say with a fair bit of confidence... most of the faculty there have absolutely no moral fiber, and the university is run by a money grubbing asshole who is actually PROUD that he runs it like a business, and not an institute of higher learning.

      Get corrupted? Most people there are already corrupt. The little media contact at the bottom of the press release (Phil Teranova) is a manipulative bastard who would stab his mother in the back if it could make him a dime.
  • by digitaldc (879047) * on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:26AM (#15301751)
    Imagine an iPod playing music for 100 millennia without repeating a single song

    Thats great until during that 100 millenia you encounter the next Ice Age, it freezes stopping its data transfer to only playing one song, "I Got You Babe" by Sonny & Cher
      - for eternity.
  • Man...there's so much wrong with this article.

    The RAM/NVRAM thing for one... RAM is for speed; NVRAM (including disk drives with random-access method drivers) is for persistent storage. There's no reason to believe that the two won't be the same, but there's also no information given here showing that this stuff is as fast as any RAM.

    Thermodynamics for another.

    The scaling of density figures ignoring spacing elements.

    When did /. become Popular Science?
  • Core memory LIVES! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jhines (82154) <john@jhines.org> on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:27AM (#15301765) Homepage
    It sounds like the magnetic core memory of the old days.
  • HAR HAR HAR (Score:3, Insightful)

    by flamingdog (16938) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:27AM (#15301767) Homepage
    Sweet Jesus, is this article's sole purpose to be fodder for bad vaporware jokes?

    Start cranking 'em out, folks.
  • by JohnnyGTO (102952) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:29AM (#15301776) Homepage
    called that spreadsheet!!



    User: Hey Clippy search for .xls files containing "2006 budget"

    Clippy: I see, you want me to spend the rest of eternity searching 13 petabytes for your stupid spreadsheet??! I quit!! User: This maybe the first effective way to get rid of that little twerp.

  • by blackcoot (124938) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:30AM (#15301791)

    The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor.

    <rant>i don't think the poster has worked with many universities. my experience with using them as subs on r & d projects has been highly mixed — occasionally, you'll find a group that just rocks. the problem is that the remaining 7-9 out of 10 times, you end up just replacing the components that the university was supposed to deliver because they either (a) failed to deliver anything at all (not uncommon) or (b) delivered code that was so horrendously broken that it was less effort to redo their pieces than to shepherd them through the process of fixing things.</rant>

    before i'm flamed to death: please note that i didn't say all universities suck (and in particularly, i didn't imply that your university sucks).

  • by gone.fishing (213219) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:31AM (#15301793) Journal
    Does this mean that the operating temp range will be 32F - 212F (0C-100C)?

    I would have said, If this is vaporware I'd be steamed...

    I suppose this will give a whole new meaning to the term "The computer froze up"!

    Will we litterally need a bit bucket for overflow?

    I better stop now.
  • Bad physics (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 10 2006, @11:32AM (#15301809)
    Without commenting on the competence of the researcher, whoever wrote the press release doesn't have the first idea what they're talking about.

    "Ferroelectric materials possess spontaneous and reversible electric dipole moments. These dipole moments are times when the material gains a charge, in this case an electric one. For example, the Earth's magnetic field generates a dipole moment that causes compasses to face north"

    First sentence is correct. Second sentence is baloney. A dipole moment is not anything to do with time, and an electric dipole moment does not mean a material gains a net charge, although it might correspond to a charge developing on a certain surface. Third sentence: the dipole moments associated with the earth's magnetization are nothing to do with the dipole moments in a ferroelectric material. The former are the result of intrinsic magnetic moments in atoms, the latter the result of differing charge distributions in materials. Similar names, completely different things.
  • 12-13 PB per cubic centimeter.

    And what's the density of current storage? While it has a lot of square centimeters, current coatings are rather thin. What would a cubic centimeter of current magnetic disc storage store?

    • In the storage world it matters little how densely you can STORE things. It matters how densely you can READ things.

      If you stacked the platters you'd get a lot of density but you can't read it because the arm won't fit between two touching plates.

      Tom
    • by CrazedWalrus (901897) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @01:35PM (#15302850) Journal
      The Cubic Centimeters are the real secret to high density storage!

      They just give you lots of little boxes to pour your data into. When you fill up about 10 of 'em, you just slap some duck tape on them, scribble a half-ass lable with a tiny magic marker, pack it into your Tonka truck with about 10 others, and push it to the other side of the data center. I call this last part the Tonka Transport Layer (TTL), and it offers the highest transfer rates in the history of networking!

      The RFC requires that you make 'VROOM! VROOM!' noises and smash it into at least one cow-orker's foot along the way. My 5 year old has already mastered this technology.
  • Yay for Anime fans !

    It has become too difficult to cope with all these hoards of anime - no hard disks ever big enough, no cd writer fast enough -

    Cavalry on the way it seems. We can speed up 'acquisition' of anime eh ?
  • They have returned core dump [wikipedia.org] to its original meaning! Now THAT is what I call good science!
  • ...But for some reason when I plugged it in my computer started shooting sparks out of the USB port.
    What did I do wrong?
  • by JackL (39506) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @12:01PM (#15302015)
    The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor.

    I was going to write just how incorrect this statement is, but after reading previoius comments, I feel I need to defend academic research instead of bash it.

    The reason why academic research is not likely to pump out an actual product is because it is not the goal of academic research to create a commercially viable project. The goal is usually to explore the basic underpinnings of something of interest, in this case the possibility of hydroxyl ions to stabilize minute ferroelectric wires. Corporations come along later and add engineering to those principles and produce the products we use.

    Those who are saying that academic researchers are con men [slashdot.org] in search of funding [slashdot.org] are overstating their case. There are examples of cheating and overstating cases in academic research but they are rare. There are also examples of corporations doing basic research, but they are becoming more rare, too. Bell Labs has all but disappeared, IBM hasn't won my Nobels lately.

    Academic research does what it does very very well and quite cheaply (see how much a grad student makes compared to well, anything, really). Corporatations do their research well, too. Just don't confuse the two.

    Jack
    • The goal is usually to explore the basic underpinnings of something of interest,

      I think you misspelled "bring in grant money" and "write publishable papers."

      If the grants happen to go to, or the papers happen to be written by, somebody who's interested in the subject, that's a bonus. It's not required.

    • by CrazedWalrus (901897) on Wednesday May 10 2006, @01:00PM (#15302564) Journal
      So if you don't want to lose the contents of your RAM I guess you just stick it in the freezer?

      Do I see on the horizon a new implementation of PERL's freeze() and thaw() ??

      Meh - maybe in PERL 6...