Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Pepper Pad, an Open Alternative to MS Origami

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Sun May 07, 2006 12:34 AM
from the fun-toys dept.
Hardware Technology
SilentBob4 writes to tell us that MadPenguin has a look at an open alternative to Microsoft's Origami, the Pepper Pad. From the article: "The Pepper Pad, like Origami, is a mid-point form factor PC that is bigger and more powerful than a PDA, but smaller and less optimized for traditional desktop PC tasks than a notebook computer or a desktop PC. The Pepper Pad is a good buy for people who would like to have a light-weight, dirt-simple, point-and-click open source device for watching videos, listening to music, reading e-books, and doing simple web surfing with a view screen that is actually easy to read. If you want do more than that, you are really better off getting a small Linux notebook, unless you are willing to get under the hood (which you can do with the Pepper Pad!) and start compiling for yourself."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Games: Origami Not A Gaming Machine 69 comments
Gamespot reports that despite earlier reports, Microsoft's Origami isn't intended as a portable Xbox. From the article: "As shown in the leaked video, Origami machines will feature a touch-sensitive screen a la Microsoft's tablet PC line, will run Windows XP, and will be priced lower than most full-size laptops, running from around $500 to $1,000. If that price tag seems too low for a mobile PC with a high-end graphics chip--which would be necessary to run the Halo footage shown in the leaked concept video--that's because it is. The AP article says flat-out that the Origami is 'not a portable version of Microsoft's Xbox videogame console,' nor is it 'a music player designed to take on Apple Computer Inc.'s mega-popular iPod.'"
[+] What is Microsoft's Origami Project? 243 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Rumors are running around the web about a new Microsoft gadget codenamed Origami that will be unveiled on March 2nd. Speculation can be found on Designtastesgood, Scobleizer, and Thatedeguy, and WindowsForDevices has a description and photos of a prototype Origami device built by National Semiconductor 2001. Anybody out there know more about this new device?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

Pepper Pad, an Open Alternative to MS Origami 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.

  • Input (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Umbral Blot (737704) on Sunday May 07 2006, @12:40AM (#15280033) Homepage
    No offense to the people who make these devices, but they need better text input than the minisule keyboard that the image for this product shows it having. Stop trying to put all the keys there and innovate. Maybe something like a chorded keyboard [wikipedia.org]? I really want a small computing device, which I could whip out and take a note or two on, but as long as it is easier to write on paper it seems silly to switch to something like this.

    • Re:Input (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Moofie (22272)
      Innovation doesn't change my muscle memory. If you want to use a chorded keyboard, there's nothing stopping you. I don't, however, think that a large number of people are interested in learning a new way of typing. Learning the regular way was a huge PITA.
      • there is plenty stopping me, the device doesn't come with one, and who wants to carry a usb keyboard arround for a portable device?
        • A chorded keyboard on a mobile device would be difficult at best, Thumb-boards, etc are around because you have to hold on to the device and type at the same time.. The could solve this by putting other keys on the back of the device, but this would mean you would HAVE to hold the device to input text, it would make cases for the device much MUCH more complex, AND it would not be able to be sold to the "it makes my life easier" crowd, since they would have to learn a new way to enter keys. (and really, some

    • Re:Input (Score:3, Interesting)

      by EvanED (569694)
      Supposedly the handwriting recognition of Windows Mobile is very good.

      I think that handwriting is a MUCH better approach than trying to do voice recognition, which another poster said. You could use it in a croweded room and not worry about either interference or being heard, or in a library. Depending on the application, handwriting recoginition could be better than a keyboard too. It'd probably be faster for almost everyone (even if it would be possible to type faster, I would guess almost no one would sp
    • I'm surprised these things [thinkgeek.com] haven't started showing up in mobile devices yet. I guess maybe they're still a bit too pricy, and maybe a bit too large. Wouldn't be a total replacement for a keyboard, since you want to be able to provide input without putting the device down on a desk -- but would be great for when you want to do some serious typing.
    • That's not the market they're aiming for. From the article, the Pepper Pad "is going to be optimized more for data consumption than data creation". These things are designed primarily for audio/video playback and web-browsing. Of the three, only web-browsing requires a keyboard interface, and that only for entering username/passwords (although this could be cached in the browser) or for typing in URLs. People may use it for posting to blogs (or slashdot), but that's getting back to production rather than co
    • Nothing is stopping you from plugging in an USB keyboard.
    • i was thinking the same thing .... then i looked at the 800 price tag .. hmm for $200 more you get a nice ibook, or maybe an older picturebook or other mini-laptop, that makes a lot more use than that HIP device ...

      btw, what computer was that in the beginning of mission impossible 3 ? looked like something with small screen but full keyboard ... hmm... anyway :)

      so bottom line is: if you wanna whip something out to write on, whip a small laptop ... palmtops, cellphones, these pads are useless - for me a

    • Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)

      by fm6 (162816)
      Whenever a device like this appears on Slashdot, there are always posts that say in effect, "But it doesn't support what I'd like it to do!" You should evaluate a product in terms of what it tries to do, not what you want it to do.

      • Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Sj0 (472011)
        And why is that?

        We don't buy products to do what others want to do, we buy them for what WE want to do. At least, that's what the sane among us do.

        To try to confine our views to what the machine claims to do is to fall prey to marketing.
      • Yeah, the learning curve is a problem, but there enough small devices out there that we are going to need a better solution eventually. It is probably better to simply bite the bullet and learn something new (which would become the defacto standard if the product had any popularity at all). Its either that or find a better way to go from stylus to text, but I don't see that happening any time soon (unless you are willing to learn a new way of writing with the stylus, like some people did for their pdas).

        • Re:Input (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Eideewt (603267)
          But games tend to reward you as you go along. Typing is pretty much impossible until you learn most of the chords.

      • Re:Input (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Zeinfeld (263942)
        I was going to say "it has a touch screen and a stylus and that should be adequate for 'a note or two' blah, blah, blah" but apparently this device does not support handwriting recognition.

        Probably because the article is pretty much Linux boosterism. They start with the untrue claim that this has beaten the windows devices to market. Some Windows devices have already shipped.

        I get a bit tired of apple/linux advocacy of the 'lets ignore every defect of our system' variety. Its like watching the idiot tal

  • Not Bad (Score:4, Insightful)

    by datafr0g (831498) * <<datafrog> <at> <gmail.com>> on Sunday May 07 2006, @12:54AM (#15280070) Homepage
    Bit short on the HDD space (20GB), especially given that these devices are intended to be used for data consumption - I'd expect there'd be a little more space for movies, etc. Battery life really needs to be sorted out too at 2 hours.

    Other than that - cool!

    One question though - how do you hold these things safely? You know, like Laptops not being recommended for use in your lap? Laptops (or notebooks, whatever), will sit fine on a table, these things don't look like they would. I noticed a small stand on the back of the image but - I dunno - it seems more like a device I'd want to hold rather than have it set up on a table or desk - sort of kills the portability aspect for me.
  • waiting for the right problem to solve.

    This is what happens when engineers get to spec what they like, without requirements.
    • I play go at a coffee shop near my office once a week. There's a guy who comes there with this Vaio thing -- I haven't looked at it very closely because it didn't interest me much, but essentially it's a little black brick with a small (6 or 7 inch range) but high resolution screen. It's probably a bit smaller than a 200 page hardback novel. Still, once he props it in an upright position, plugs in something to the upper left (wifi perhaps?) and plugs in a foldable keyboard, it takes up more room than a 12" laptop.

      Add in a fresnel lens (think Brazil [quxmore.com]) to keep from going blind, and I don't see any advantage. And for those who like to keep their hands on the keyboard, using a touch pen is worse than a mouse. I saw a video demonstrating some of the earliest interfaces (early Englebert groundbreaking stuff in the 50s). At first they used a pen but found that people became very tired very quickly when they had to point at the screen with it repetively. With the Sony mentioned above in the propped up position, using the stylus pointer would be very tiring.

      The fact is, we have hands of a particular size, visual capabilities of a particular resolution, and pockets too small to fit a device that meets those physical requirements. A pocketable AND usable computer is going to take some big leaps -- for instance glasses that function as high res displays (at reasonable prices, weights, and appearances) and a real break from finger oriented input. Whoever figures out how to free input from dependence on the human hand will make a bundle -- and they should because it isn't going to be an easy feat.

  • I dunno... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by IANAAC (692242) on Sunday May 07 2006, @12:58AM (#15280083)
    If what you're looking for is a nice alternative to Windows Mobile, why not consider an import from either Dynamism or Trisoft? They both offer a smaller form factor Linux-based clamshell with better keyboards for half the price. Not only that, they have both SD and CF slots to expand storage.

    I don't get the "gotta have" with this.

    Tablet PCs that are able to run Linux are cheaper, if you're looking for a hard-disk based solution.

          • Actually, less hardware is kind of subjective. The Pepper Pad comes in at 12.1 inches. To me , that's not any more portable than a laptop. I guess I place a premium on the small size of the Zaurus. Plus, there's an incredibly active developer community that pretty much provides any type of application I could ever want or use on it.

  • The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Swift Kick (240510) on Sunday May 07 2006, @01:04AM (#15280096)
    This is not a new device, and has never really caught on, regardless of how many times you might scream it has Linux inside. It might be neat for those that just have the burning desire of throwing money away, and that's about it.

    See for yourself...

    - It was announced back in 2004, and Engadget mentioned it:

    http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/08/the-pepper-pad- 2/ [engadget.com]

    Then Tux Magazine reviewed it in April 2005, and it was still not available to the public:

    http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000125 [tuxmagazine.com]

    Now it's available for sale, but for the price it's selling ($850), you can easily pick a cheap laptop with far more expandability for quite less.

    Do you think it's portable? Think again. Look at the dimensions:

    http://www.pepper.com/products/specifications.html [pepper.com]

    12.1" x 6.6" x 0.8" (309 x 175 x 20mm)
    2.3 lbs (1043 grams)

    Now, for something this big, why not get something that's cheaper and just better like say, the Dell Inspiron B120 for $499, with free memory and wifi upgrades? See for yourself:

    http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/featured_basnb?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs [dell.com]

    Just my 2 cents....

    • Now, for something this big, why not get something that's cheaper and just better like say, the Dell Inspiron B120 for $499, with free memory and wifi upgrades?

      WTF, man?! You're complaining that the 2.3 lb Pepper Pad is too big, and then recommend getting a 6.41 lb Dell [dell.com] instead?! That just doesn't make sense.

      Now, I'll tell you the real reason why nobody wants the damn thing: it's too flat-out weird. First of all, it runs Linux (no flames please; everyone should be able to admit that most people don't use

      • Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LordLucless (582312) on Sunday May 07 2006, @02:07AM (#15280238)
        First of all, it runs Linux (no flames please; everyone should be able to admit that most people don't use Linux).

        Nobody gives a stuff what OS it runs. As long as you can double-click the movie/audio icons to play them, most consumers won't notice that it's different to windows under the hood. They'd expect a device like this to have differences to a fully-fledged computer.

        Second, it's got a strange keyboard that you probably can't touch-type on.

        And yet, people are destroying their thumbs on mobile phone keypads daily. This is a step up from that, at the very least, and is not designed to be used to enter a lot of information. The article specifically says it's designed for media consumption - playing audio, video and surfing the web. If you think you're going to be using this thing to write reports, buy a laptop.

        And finally, it's slow. I don't care what kind of IPC it has; 624 MHz just isn't fast enough for something big enough to be a real computer.

        It's not trying to be a real computer. It's trying to be a media station. Nobody who uses it will care how fast it's clock-cycles are as long it doesn't skip during DVD playback.

        Now, you wanna know how to fix it? Turn it into a convertible tablet with a real keyboard, put in a bigger (10.4") screen, give it a decent CPU (e.g. 1+ GHz) and more RAM, and (as much as it pains me to say it) put Windows Tablet Edition (or better yet, Mac OS, but that's just a fantasy) on it.

        So, turn it into a laptop? I think all you've done is prove that you're not the target market for this device.

        • The article specifically says it's designed for media consumption - playing audio, video and surfing the web. If you think you're going to be using this thing to write reports, buy a laptop.

          I don't care what it's intended for, I only care about what it actually is. And what it actually is is an overpriced, obsolete laptop with a weird keyboard and tiny screen.

          Besides, everything you just mentioned can be done just as well on a $250 PSP.

          It's not trying to be a real computer. It's trying to be a media stat

          • I hate to reply to myself, but I made a mistake or two on that list:

            I meant Fujitsu P1510D, not T4020 -- the T series is the big, heavy one.

            Also, I forgot to mention that I'm also considering the iRex iLiad [engadget.com], which is an e-ink ebook reader (but has the right specifications to be a PDA with a nice big screen). At the moment, the finalists in my decision are it and the X41 (but I'm waiting to see if anything better comes out this summer, since I don't need it until school in the fall).
        • Nobody gives a stuff what OS it runs.

          People writing vertical apps certainly do. And being one of the few devices running Linux in that form factor makes it quite attractive, in particular given the price.
    • Hi SwiftKick,

      This is not a new device

      No, it's not a new device. I reviewed this product now because of the hype around Origami. For those of us who don't like DRM, and do like open source, I wanted to talk about the Pepper Pad in comparison to Origami. IIRC, none of the reviews that you cite in your post were written at a time when Origami had been announced. That's what's new. The context.

  • Paper Pad (Score:5, Funny)

    by CtrlPhreak (226872) on Sunday May 07 2006, @01:15AM (#15280119) Homepage
    Anybody else read this as Paper Pad alternative to MS origami? Think of it, infinite battery life, lots of storage space, great handwritting recognition, light weight... come on someone start writing the jokes.

  • "At this time, you cannot do this"... (Score:3, Informative)

    by rdoherty (898394) on Sunday May 07 2006, @01:31AM (#15280151)
    I'll wait until they make a few improvements...

    Currently, it only synchronizes with Windows (even though its marketed for the open source community)... being a software issue, I'm certain that they'll eventually port it to Linux.. The 2 hour battery life will need some improvement.. Their FAQ contains too many "At this time, you cannot do this".. and worst of all is that it may not support 3rd party applications...

    I'll check in on the Pepper Pad in a few months to see how its improved...
  • I don't know why this thing is being compared to Origami - it's closer to the size of a Sony Viao. Which begs the question, why would you want something that size that doesn't hve all the functionality of a laptop?
  • How is this secure? Any mozilla/firefox url exploit makes this an easy target. Was interested until I hit that. Not really interested in recompiling their stupid design decision.
  • With all the open source stuff going on with this device, it's odd that OGG and Jabber aren't on the list of supported media / protocols.

  • I'm interested... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Null Nihils (965047) on Sunday May 07 2006, @01:39AM (#15280173) Journal
    At first glance, I'm interested, and yet I can't help shake the feeling that there's something rather clumsy about these devices. There is definitely something appealing about the "bigger than a PDA, smaller than a laptop" form-factor, but as I've seen mentioned already this seems like a solution waiting for the problem. My 3 cents about what's holding these types of tech back:

    1) Input
    So far, it's hard to beat a keyboard for actually getting stuff done. Even when playing games, I tend to like having lots of little keys to use instead of a chunky controller with buttons, knobs and levers. Touch screens will do for a pointing device, although touching a screen is less continuous than holding a mouse, so mice still have their advantages. Still, touch screens are very useful for some things (market checkouts or anything with an incremental flow of finite options) and I'd like to see them become more commonplace, but you still can't use them for text entry.

    2) Software and Flexibility
    TFA also mentions that the "Pepper Pad" also lacks useful preloaded software (eg. a calendar). Hardware is useless without some intelligent, useable software to run on it. Also, the Pepper Pad would make a wonderful handheld media device if not for the price tag, which begs that the device be used as more than just a replacement for a portable DVD player. As per the "solution waiting for a problem" comment, people are yet to really think of what software you'd want specifically for a device like this, with these abilities, that you can carry with you.

    3) Internet Availability, Battery Power (Wirelessness)
    This last one is rather simple, in that an Internet-aware device is useful for accessing all that the Web and Net have to offer... provided you have access to the Internet. Wi-Fi is still far from obiquitious. And, if a device needs to suckle on a wall socket (or a car's 12V plug) after 45 mins of heavy use, its not really very "wireless" or "portable".

    And there are my 3 cents.
  • Each button, wheel etc adds cost to the construction and increases the size of the box and reduces the size of the possible screen. Get rid of all the buttons and use a proper virtual keyboard on a touch sensitive screen. You can get rid of the scrool wheel as well. Does there really need to be speakers? Tiny speakers take space, power and almost always sound terrible.

    OTOH, it's good to see more of this style of device. One day someone will get it right.
    • hi geoff lane,

      Get rid of all the buttons and use a proper virtual keyboard on a touch sensitive screen.

      You are right about the thumbpad keyboard. The keys are rubbery and gummy, and they kind of roll under your fingers. It's annoying. BUT. Consider the alternatives. Unfortunately, the alternatives are not good. You suggested a touch keyboard, but IMHO, that would be even worse than the rubbery, slippery thumbkeys. From having used the Pepper Pad to write much of TFA, I can tell you that you

  • Nokia 770 anyone? (Score:3, Informative)

    by wertarbyte (811674) on Sunday May 07 2006, @01:54AM (#15280211) Homepage
    This Pepper pad looks nice, just like a bigger version of the Nokia 770 [nokia.com], which runs Linux [maemo.org] as well. Having an open plattform [datenbruch.de] is a nice way to attract developers and establish a nice collection of applications. I hope we see more of those linux gadgets in the future.
  • I started out reading with a vague interest, but it appears that this is an inferior product to the Origami. The deal-breaker for this would have to be the 2-hour battery life. (And the lack of data-entry methods didn't help it any) But I can't afford this or the Origami, so the whole thing is kind of academic. Why can't someone just come out with a bigger-screen pda, and be done with it?

    • Why can't someone just come out with a bigger-screen pda, and be done with it?

      Aye, that's the question, isn't it? It seems that no company thinks "just a big PDA" would sell (but they're wrong), so they all try to add some kind of "twist" to it (like the Pepper Pad being for multimedia).

      That said, the closest I've found to "just a big PDA" is this [engadget.com]. Its "twist" is that it has a grayscale e-ink display ('cause it's supposed to be an ebook reader), but aside from that it is exactly a big PDA.

  • So, if you want something that you can actually type on and get work done with, you shouldn't buy this.

    If you want something that you can take anywhere, jot down a couple of notes, keep track of a calendar, etc. You also shouldn't buy this.

    How many people are going to buy this thing just to watch movies? I know that I wouldn't want to spend this much money on something with only one function. And most of my routine web browsing necessitates a lot of typing (slashdot, forums, etc.)
  • One thing I am regularly being asked about by business users is a device that can output PowerPoint presentations to a projector, but with the unit being smaller than a laptop and bigger than a PDA - the users want something low-cost (around £300-£400 max), but with the business functionality they need: ie: ability to check and send mail, Web browse (we use SugarCRM, a Web-based CRM package), do some simple word processing and, of course, display PowerPoints. It doesn't need to be a full PC, but
  • ...you can not only switch easily frojm one application to another, but you can also cut and paste content from, say, Writely's word processing tool to the Pepper Pad Journal and back again....

    Wow, that is übercool...:P

    ...You are a GNU/Linux gadget lover. Just think, you get to rub your Mac friends' noses in the fact that a Linux device was first to have a touch screen,....

    Never heard of the Newton [wikipedia.org] I suppose...

  • The Pepper Pad doesn't come with a cable for syncing to your Windows PC. That is potentiality a problem, because both the Pepper Pad and your PC will have the same USB ports and so you will need a cable with the large USB ports on both ends, which I have never seen in a store.

    How ignorant can you get and still be able to post these reviews? USB doesn't do host to host, which is why these cables don't exist. However, there are USB to USB networking dongles with some buffer memory, which both ends see as

    • No. They go to the Google page, type gibberish and hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button to randomly find a cute name that hasn't been taken. This also works for finding baby names. :P
      • I know this is a joke, but odd names are GREAT for search engines. It makes searching a billion times easier. Ever try searching for something C related? How about ubuntu or maemo? You tell me which gets you more accurate results.
      • "No. They go to the Google page, type gibberish and hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button to randomly find a cute name that hasn't been taken. This also works for finding baby names. :P"

        Insert remark about recent births to celebrities here.

    • Re:Newtons, all of 'em. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by RiffRafff (234408) on Sunday May 07 2006, @03:09PM (#15282173) Homepage
      The point is, Origami looks suspiciously like a Newton.

      You say that like it's a bad thing.

      Everyone who sees my Newton 2100 (which I still use on a daily basis) is impressed by one particular thing: its screen real estate. Yeah, it's bigger than a Palm Pilot, but it also does more. Plus, you don't have to learn some new inane way of writing; you just write (or print). That's the second thing that impresses...writing in English (and yes, we've all heard the Trudeau jokes, but the HWR on the 2000 and 2100 was simply superb) anywhere on the screen instead of writing hieroglyphs on top of each other in one spot and numbers in another until the touch membrane is deformed.

      This Pepper Pad needs its bright color screen combined with the Newton's ease-of-input and battery life. Then then they'd have a winner.

    • The design is to let you type with 2 thumbs. Its probably inputable while walking too.
      I like this design a lot. good subway, bathroom, and meeting computer. Not so great if you just want something to take from office to home to hotel, or need something more pocketable and forgettable.

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.