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How Palm's Treo Got Boost From BlackBerry Lawsuit

Posted by samzenpus on Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:46 AM
from the one-man's-misery-is-another's-pleasure dept.
Handhelds Businesses Hardware IT
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Palm ramped up its marketing campaign for its Treo smartphone while rival Research in Motion was embroiled in a patent fight, the Wall Street Journal reports. 'The result: at least 1,500 new inquiries about the Treo in the past few months from corporate customers, resulting in 600 free trials, Palm says. In total, Palm says it has more than doubled its number of sales leads since October. "The doors have been opening," says Ed Colligan, Palm's chief executive. At a November staff meeting, Mr. Colligan says he told his staff to "step things up. We have to go back and knock on doors and respond as fast as we can." ... Internally, Palm executives say they believe that the Treo will outsell BlackBerrys by the end of this year.'"
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  • Admittedly I've yet to own one of these --- does push email exist on the Treo? That seems to be the only thing keeping BlackBerry afloat.

    • Re:Push email on the Treo? (Score:4, Informative)

      by DJPenguin (17736) on Thursday March 23 2006, @11:54AM (#14981204)
      www.chatteremail.com - push email works really well with my home machine running Dovocot IMAP server.
    • Yes it does, have a look at chattermail [chatteremail.com] as an example. Do a google search on "treo 650 push mail" for more alternatives.
      • I used Chattermail back when I had my Treo, and yes, it is a fantastic email program. It's not exactly push, but it's more or less the same end result - it keeps an IMAP connection open using the IMAP IDLE command, so it's notified as soon as mail comes in (no delay caused by periodic fetching). The only problem, and it's a problem common to all pseudo-push solutions, is that it kills the battery life by keeping the network connected at all times. BlackBerry, and other true push solutions, don't keep a n
    • I don't think that Treos come from Palm with this capability, but there is 3rd-party software that allows you to push email to the Treo. I'm not sure if there's an Exchange plug-in or whatnot, but I've seen several different applications that allow IMAP mail to be pushed.

    • Re:Push email on the Treo? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      At least one email client, ChatterEmail ( http://www.chatteremail.com/ [chatteremail.com] - I am a satisfied user but otherwise have no connection) supports IMAP IDLE, which behaves about the same as blackberry-style push. Basically your Treo connects to the IMAP server and says "IDLE" which means "when anything changes, tell me about it." So new messages arriving triggers a message from the IMAP server to the client. From a user perspective, this is the same as push email -- it makes no difference to me whether the server or
    • What about lack of official support by T-mobile? Seems like a pretty gigantinormous stumbling block to me.

      If I can get a Blackberry for $100 with a new plan, or a Treo for $300 that's plan independant, and I only use it for e-mail, which do you think I'm going to get?
      • T-Mobile used to carry the Treo 600, I think they switched to just Blackberries so as not to confuse their customers. I use T-Mobile quite happily, but T-Mobile's selection of phones is... lackluster. Just because T-Mobile doesn't carry a phone, it doesn't mean it's a ginormous stumbling block for the company. For example, T-Mobile (in the U.S., anyway) doesn't offer Sony Ericsson phones anymore, either.

        Also, since T-Mobile is a GSM company, you can use pretty much any GSM phone you want, just make sure
    • no.

      the biggest problem is that the treo suffers from bad design. The battery when low will cause buzzing in the phone audio and the damned things lock up and die on a regular basis.

      I have yet to have a blackberry lock up to the point of useless like the 4 treo's i have had all have done.

      if you like to have a reliable phone. do NOT get a treo.
      • I have a Treo 650 and I have no clue what you're talking about. Bad for my battery, I almost always use it until it dies. Lots of people use hacks on Palm devices and then complain when it crashes, most likely that's what you're talking about.

        My biggest problem with it is that the speakers aren't loud enough but I use volumecare to get around that. I also like MP3 ringtones and I use Ringo for that. Between the two, I'm sure that's where I get the random crash a week, but it's never been while using th

        • Re:Treo 600 a nightmare/Treo 650 perfect for my ne (Score:4, Informative)

          by Lumpy (12016) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:49PM (#14981624) Homepage
          I had 3 600's and 1 650 and all 4 of them had the buzzing in the earpiece and audio to the caller when the bettery would get down to 50% or less. also random lockups that take a reset to get it back are 100% unexcuseable on a phone. I can not have my phone lock up and not recieve calls because the hardware was not proven to be robust enough.

          Palm's in general have been great. but they always failed horribly when they tried to marry them to a cellphone. I had the origional Qualcomm Palm unit and it sucked horribly in life and stability. Then I have tried off and on the treo's and all of them had a major flaw that makes them useless. The flip treos would break their hinges within days of getting it, the 600 and 650 have lockup issues and a shielding design flaw that palm refusesto fix (It's even in the 700's! I know of 2 people that have the 700w and they get the buzzing when the battery is lower than 1/3rd.

          until they decide to quit making them cheap and put time into making a robust pda/phone that will last more than 12 months they are not practical.

  • Personally I love the Treo 650, but I'm a techie. While I believe the quality & functionality of the Treo far outweighs that of the blackberry I can see why the blackberry sales are better in comparison. Most execs I've met wouldn't know how to turn on a Treo let alone get their e-mail on it, the iPod is another good example of ease of use winning through.

    Having said that, perhaps the 700w (and subsequent Windows versions) will help with the learning curve for execs.

    • Re:Ease of use or previousbad marketing? (Score:5, Funny)

      by capecodcarl (955749) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:06PM (#14981295)
      Having said that, perhaps the 700w (and subsequent Windows versions) will help with the learning curve for execs.

      The synergy between the Windows OS and the Treo platform certainly creates an exciting new paradigm shift in the handheld market. Executives will see this as a new way to integrate wireless devices into their business processes in a way that will empower their knowledge workers while providing a solid return on investment for the company's strategic initiatives.

      /BINGO!

  • I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Eightyford (893696) on Thursday March 23 2006, @11:52AM (#14981181) Homepage
    I wonder how many of those sales are for the Smartphone that runs Windows?

    http://reviews.cnet.com/Palm_Treo_700w/4505-6452_7 -31473222.html [cnet.com]
      • The 700 is doing quite well -- Palm stepped in to a new market with it; it's not really much of a comptetitor to the other Palm OS 5 based Treos. Worse screen, better bluetooth, better camera, faster internet. There were a lot of folks with iPaqs and the like, and a lot of them are moving to the 700w. Rest assured, the traction is quite good for the device.

  • that sucks (Score:5, Informative)

    by BewireNomali (618969) on Thursday March 23 2006, @11:54AM (#14981196)
    because i've used both, and the blackberry far eclipses the treo as a mobile email device.

    the blackberry is popular because it does mobile email REALLY well. It also excels in one hand operation because of the clickable scroll wheel. It's also intuitive and easy to use - as well as significantly lighter than its bulk would indicate.

    the blackberry isn't an browsing device - it's for voice and text - and it's ideally suited for the workplace.

    I haven't used the windows mobile treos, but the palm treos are heavy with small keyboards. The units don't multitask well - and they CRASH. I've never hada blackberry crash - treos freeze up all the time.

    maybe the windows mobile treos are better - but treos need to go a long way, from form factor onwards, to truly best the blackberry atwhat it does.

    • Re:that sucks (Score:5, Informative)

      by HaydnH (877214) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:02PM (#14981262)
      "I haven't used the windows mobile treos, but the palm treos are heavy with small keyboards. The units don't multitask well - and they CRASH. I've never hada blackberry crash - treos freeze up all the time."

      FUD!! Treo's crash due to 3rd party applications (at least with up to date firmware and default applications). If you get a crash on a Treo you can dial #*377 (code is dependent on Treo type) and it will tell you what application crashed it - remove the 3rd party app that's crashing your system and your fine again! The main reason why the palm Treo's are so good is that there are loads of 3rd party apps, however a lot have been written by hobbyists or for previous versions of Palm OS - why do people keep blaming Palm for other peoples errors?

      If I put a cron job on my Linux box doing an init 0 every 5 minutes does this mean Linux is unstable??
      • How about the same reason we can blame Microsoft for breaking legacy apps between upgrades?? Palm's no different.

        • Re:that sucks (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Chris Burke (6130) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:25PM (#14981436) Homepage
          Or how we can blame Windows 98 and older versions of Mac OS for crashing just because an application crashed.

          I like PalmOS and I like my Treo 180 a lot, but I am starting to get sick of PalmOS' ancient technology. No memory protection? What century is this again?
      • dude, this is a work phone assigned to me at work. I EXPECT to turn it on and for it to work. Isn't that what apple fans always laud about?

        Blackberry - I turned it on and it worked. One hand operation - scroll to a number in contacts, click to call. click to disconnect. scroll to email with dial, click to read. if i need to reply I do, otherwise, I'm on my way. I find it hard pressed for anyone to make it simpler.

      • Amen to that. My Treo has dozens of applications and even a couple of sketchy hacks, and it is still rock solid. It hasn't crashed once since I disabled TreoGuard (a third party app I was using to shut off the phone at night), and that was over 9 months ago.

        The Treo is the most versatile device I've ever used, wrapped in a great, simple, and above all usable interface. A great phone, great synchronization with my computer (I use Missing Sync on Mac OS X for sync with Address Book, iCal, iTunes, iPhoto, file
        • I had a Treo 650 for about 6 months. It crashed CONSTANTLY, even with ZERO third-party software on it. PalmOS just does not have the memory protection and multitasking needed for modern applications. Now I have a BlackBerry and nothing could convince me to go back to Palm (actually I've been a Palm user since the dawn of time [ok, 1997] and the Treo debacle made me swear off their products forever). I can't use a device that I can't rely on (crashing when trying to answer an incoming call is simply unac
          • I can read AND edit Word and Excel files on my 650. And there exists Opera for the Palm. (but it kinda blows) Not saying that what you haven't isn't best for you, just providing more info.
            • A quick Google search shows you can do that on the BlackBerry too - DynoPlex [dynoplex.com] claims to be able to do it, although I've never used it.

              And is there really an Opera for Palm? When I had my Treo, the word from Opera was that PalmOS was so lame and ass-backwards that they weren't going to even attempt a port. I hadn't heard anything about it since then (and that really wasn't that long ago).
        • note that my original point was about voice and text. voice and text. i wouldn't personally buy a BB or a treo - these are devices given to me by work. Given a choice - the BB works right out of the box - single hand operation and intuitive at that.

          I don't want to install apps. This is a WORK phone. I want voice and text. It should NEVER crash. It should have a good battery life - be cheap and easy to replace, be lightweight and easy to use.

          Again, voice and text. Treo does not match the BB at voice and text
      • FUD!! Treo's crash due to 3rd party applications
        That's not good enough. I can't speak directly to Treos, but Palms have really outgrown the toy OS phase. They direly need a real OS with memory protection, and a rich enough API so that system utilities don't have to be written as "hacks."
    • It also excels in one hand operation because of the clickable scroll wheel.

      For most Slashdotters, this is, of course, the most important feature any Web-enabled mobile device. ;-)

    • I agree. My employer issued me a Blackberry while my personal cellphone was a Treo 650 (The Treo replaced my previous Kyocera smartphone when it died). After a few weeks with the Blackberry, I stopped carrying the Treo entirely.

      As a techno-geek, I was originally excited by the Treo's extensive feature-set, as compared to the Blackberry. But the Treo's short battery life made it die often, no matter that I had chargers at home, office, and car. The PalmOS caused the Treo to crash often. And the Treo is
    • Jack Bauer uses one in 24. The best feature it has is that you can program a smart card to blow up when you put it in an enemy intelligence agent's treo. Bones also uses one of these for mapping underground tunnels. Can your blackberry do that? I didn't think so.
    • see, my experience is exactly the opposite. i was brought in as IT Director of a medium-sized company. about a half-dozen of the senior execs had blackberries, but none were really happy with them. i was issued one, asked to evaluate it, and make a recommendation. after a little while using the things, i understood why the Blackberries were so unloved. the proposed replacement (this was coming up on 3 years ago; the Treo 600 wasn't around yet) was a Tungsten M. it went over really, really well. everyone who
    • Listen, if you say a treo sucks, that's FUD. The Treo 650 obviously does not suck -- check out any of the gazillion websites with treo users -- there is a fanatical support base out there -- who feel as strongly about the Treo as you do about your blackberry. You think the Blackberry is better? Cool, talk about how it does X, Y and Z well. To say the Treo crashes all the time is obviously a personal experience.

      I can tell you I love my Treo, and I also had both for a while, but I always had to have my

  • I hope it works (Score:4, Interesting)

    by yog (19073) * on Thursday March 23 2006, @11:56AM (#14981220) Homepage Journal
    I am a Palm user from way back and I am dying for a Treo, but I don't want to buy one and then see Palm go under or sell out or otherwise orphan their products. I want to see lots o' new stuff coming out for Palm platform and I don't want to have to get a Windows-based handheld in a year or two. Go Palm!

    That said, I wish it were happening because of free and fair competition rather than that some predatory patent holder with a team of clever lawyers screwed a great company through bogus patent suits. I hope Rim bounces back, too.

  • Maybe. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LWATCDR (28044) on Thursday March 23 2006, @11:56AM (#14981225) Homepage Journal
    The reason I didn't get a Treo was the data plan that they wanted to sell me.
    I got a Samsung A900. It supports Sprints new Power Vision high speed network. I can surf to any site including slashdot, I can get my email, set appointments on my calendar. It is also super small and has a great screen. The battery only lasts for one day but I can live with that.
    The current Treos that support high speed all run Windows. I have heard very mixed reviews on them and Verizon charges a lot more for the data plan for the Treo than other phones.
    I will look a the the Treo when they have there new Linux based PalmOS and the Data plan costs the same as my current one. Oh and PUT SOME RAM on the bloody things!

    • Re:Maybe. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Jonboy X (319895)
      Word on the rumor sites is that the 700p (for PalmOS, as opposed to 700w for Windows) should be out around late May/early June. Roughly the same hardware specs as the 700w, including Sprint's EVDO high-speed network.
    • Or get a Treo 700p from Sprint in May. All of the goodness of the Palm OS, all of the new hardware from the 700w. And the simple (and cheap!) pricing plans from Sprint. I have unlimited data use for $15 a month, and fully supported Bluetooth DUN for my laptop. Verizon just enjoys raping your ass repeatedly.
      • I heard that EV-DO required hardware to support it. With FPGAs, DSPs, and "soft radios" what is hardware and isn't is hard to say. I have friends that like their 650s but I can do everything they use their treos for with my much smaller and cheaper cell. I am not saying that some people don't need a Treo but most of the people I see using them really don't use them to their full potential.
        I am not writing them off yet. I have high hopes. But you have to agree Palm should stick more Ram in the thing.

  • TREO 650 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Reflex4468 (927159) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:14PM (#14981351)
    I've got a 650. It was my first Palm device, and I can now not live without it. I am a Professional Sound Tech, and now could not live without having internet and email coming to a device in my pocket. There is not an email push(yet), but it is coming. I automatically download my email every hour, which is fine for me. I currently use my treo for a movie player, mp3 player, cell phone, email reciever, computer remote control, and personal organizer. Go buy one.
  • I actually have used both a Blackberry and a Treo 650 simultaneously for work (BB for email, Treo for phone features). Recently I installed the Cingular "Xpress" software. It can work with corporate email that does use a redirector but is actually pushing the email to my Treo. Sent items are synched, email read on the Treo are marked as read on my desktop, Calendar is synched, I can search corporate contact lists, etc. Not too bad. I haven't picked up my Blackberry in about a month.

  • Lots of inquiries, not so many buyers. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jack Johnson (836341) on Thursday March 23 2006, @12:21PM (#14981414)
    I imagine most of the attention came from people like me. Even though my employer would have been "exempt" from a shutdown, I was tasked with investigating alternatives to BB handhelds and BES last fall when the threat against RIM appeared to be real.

    The worrying is over now and we're sticking with BB/BES.

  • There is a simple explanation (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There is so much more [flickr.com] you can do with a Treo

  • Oversimplified conclusions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by moochfish (822730) on Thursday March 23 2006, @01:21PM (#14981865)
    In the quarter ended in late November, Palm sold 602,000 Treos, nearing the 645,000 new subscriber accounts that RIM signed on in the same period.

    Internally, Palm executives say they believe that the Treo will outsell BlackBerrys by the end of this year.

    Here's what's happened so far:

    1. Company's reliability goes into question
    2. Consumers look for alternatives

    This is what Palm is hoping is #3:

    3. Competitors overtake market

    However, this is what is really happening:

    3. Company's reliability no longer in question
    4. Consumers stop looking for alternatives

    Yeah. Maybe they would have outsold Blackberrys had the lawsuit kept on chugging or RIM lost. Unfortunately for Palm, that did not happen. Whatever edge they had during the lawsuit is now gone. How can you predict continued growth when the market changed in the past month with the conclusion of the lawsuit?
        • Yea and I bet your treo battery life sucks compared to the blackberry. My blackberry holds it's charge for nearly a week, bet that windows mobile crap cannot do that.

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