Aging Japan Looks to Bots For Care 139
An anonymous reader writes to mention a Yahoo! news article about robotics in Japan. While many research bots are working on interacting with their environment, some of Japan's commercial robotics are focusing on building bots for elderly care. From the article: "The 100-kilogram (220-pound) robot can also distinguish eight different kinds of smells, can tell which direction a voice is coming from and uses powers of sight to follow a human face. 'In the future, we would like to develop a capacity to detect a human's health condition through his breath,' Mukai said. Japan is bracing for a major increase in needs for elderly care due to a declining birth rate and a population that is among the world's longest living." That sure sounds familiar.
Well, obviously... (Score:1)
I think Japan is making a mistake. (Score:1)
If Japan is going fully into a robotic society, how exactly is this good in the long term? In the short term sure it seems like it could help the economy but in the long term its just less jobs and a slower economy for Japan. So they could either pay people to take care of the elderly, or build robots. If Japan builds robots, then there will be less service jobs
Re:I think Japan is making a mistake. (Score:2)
You have to problem backward... It's more along the lines of:
"Japan building robots to take care of the elderly because there is less youth"
From Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAPAN [wikipedia.org] ):
"The Japanese population is rapidly aging, the effect of a post-war baby boom followed by a decrease in births as the country modernized in the latter part of t
And they don't encourage more youth either. (Score:1)
Re:Well, obviously... (Score:1)
Looking for an article (Score:5, Interesting)
The article had an especially strong lead paragraph about an immigrant who would never be able to get a job taking care of the elderly because she was a foreigner and because she wasn't a robot; the point of the article was that racism is so strong in Japan that old people actually shy away from a human's touch when the human isn't the right kind, and that they prefer robots. (Well, that was one possible conclusion -- certainly there are others.)
Does anyone remember seeing this? Any hints on how to track it down?
Re:Looking for an article (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Looking for an article (Score:2)
btw, is anyone suprised that the Japanese are building robots for this purpose? I mean, what aren't the Japanese building robots for?
And when robots get smarter... (Score:2)
Re:Looking for an article (Score:1)
Not racism, pride (Score:3, Insightful)
from the article you wanted (posted above)
Interacting with other people can be difficult for the Japanese, he says, "because they always have to think about what
I find this very odd. (Score:2)
I wouldn't dismiss the racism part of it so quickly. From what I have experienced many Japanese are still very racist.
So what? (Score:1)
Racism, as far as racism, this is religion. Racism is simply a religion. It's outdated, because soon we will have the technology to allow mothers to choose the race of their baby. Race is defined by only a few genes, so in the future I expect all of us to be one race.
It's really simple, if you want to solve racism, then let's decid
This type of pride is bad for their economy. (Score:1)
I honestly don't understand the logic of Japan's economic decisions, I do not unders
Thats a ridiculous excuse. (Score:1)
Even if you have no compassion and no heart at all, is it really that difficult to accept their money? Why give
Re:Looking for an article (Score:1)
Where's Dr. Who when you need him?
Re:Looking for an article (Score:1)
No money in this research (Score:4, Interesting)
It makes sense, then, that the guy's name is Mukai. 'Mu' means 'none' or 'no' in Japanese. 'Kai' means 'shell'. So Mr. No Shells can also be read as Mr. No Clams. And if you ain't got no clams, you're one poor dude.
I hate to be pedantic, but... (Score:2)
Re:I hate to be pedantic, but... (Score:1)
Re:I hate to be pedantic, but... (Score:1)
http://www.bmc.riken.jp/~RI-MAN/index_jp.html [riken.jp]
Re:No money in this research (Score:2, Informative)
here's Dr. Mukais' webpage, and as you see the his name in Kanji, he is "Muka" "i". The leteral meaning is "approaching" and "well"(water hole). There are many theories about the actual meaning.
http://www.bmc.riken.jp/~tosh/index.html [riken.jp]
Re:No money in this research (Score:4, Informative)
www.softopia.or.jp , although I don't think you'll find anything interesting about this project in specific if you can't read Japanese. But, anyhow, just trust me, How To Deal With Our Aging Society gets mentioned often enough in seminars here that you'd think it was Dilbertized like "business synergy paradigm" or something.
Aging was not invented yesterday. (Score:1)
If you are really from Japan and involved in this, can you please explain the logic to me on how this benefits the old or the young?
Re:Aging was not invented yesterday. (Score:2)
Yes, "pay the youth to take care of the elderly" sounds great in theory -- but where does their salary come from? From taxe
That is a myth too. (Score:1)
Pity the US doesn't think so... (Score:3, Insightful)
And the sad part is, when younger people get into those places, we will probably do that same thing.
Xenophobia and Robots (Score:2)
To give you an idea of there level of xenophobi
Re:Xenophobia and Robots (Score:1)
Re:Xenophobia and Robots (Score:2)
Bullshit. Look up the word "jus sanguinis". Better yet, let me just tell you what it means.
Japan is a jus sanguinis state, meaning that it recognizes citizenship by blood, not by birth (as is the case in the United States, Ireland and many other countries). Article 2 provides three situations in which a person can become a Japanese citizen at birth:
1) When either parent is a Japanese citizen at th
Re:Xenophobia and Robots (Score:2)
That is the sound of my point going way over your head.
To dismiss this research as simply "xenophobia" is rather delusional.
Try and take a look back at what I wrote. I said that:
A) Japan is xenophobic compared to the US.
1) I showed that this is true by giving you links explaing their immigration policies.
B) This higher level of xenophobia has resulted in more interest in finding ways to reduce the demand for labor that other nations (namely the US) would simply fill with immigrant
It's no myth. (Score:1)
I think Xenophobia is not the same thing as racism. A person can be Xenophobic in that they may not trust or like how someone else looks, but racism is a religious belief system. Xenophobia can be removed over time as a person learns more about other people, and this happens when immigration occurs and people are around and have with with many different people. Racism on the other hand never ends because it is a r
Re:Xenophobia and Robots (Score:1)
It's not just racism. (Score:1)
Race is a religious belief, it's not supported by science, it's a religion. The science basically has found the cure for race, and that cure is stem cell research and genetic engineering. So the arguement that race is preventing Japan from solving it's economic problems, well, if Japan solved it's economic problems the
The price is around 40 million yen I hear (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The price is around 40 million yen I hear (Score:2)
You mean on that overcrowded earthquake prone island?
LK
Re:The price is around 40 million yen I hear (Score:2)
Well, there's Japan and then there's the Japanese old people in question, which don't exactly like it either. There's still a lot of people that remember WWII, and face it - a lot of old people are stuck in the past. If I go to the nearest nursing home I think I can find a lot of attitudes that are out of touch with the average inhabitant. Indecency, sex before marriage, kids b
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:4, Informative)
There is no way you can make one-to-one care work at that proportion. Japan is currently experimenting with a variety of methods for alleviating this: the current profusion of old folks homes, for example, breaks the traditional one-caretaker-who-is-probably-a-daughter-or-inlaw- per-elderly paradigm. Then there are bots and immigration. I guess I benefit rather directly from policies which encourage the later :) But in the end its going to have to be a confluence of efforts.
Of course, this problem on the societal scale is closely related to the low birthrate (Japan hovers at something like, off the top of my head, 1.1). Yeah. Combine that with an average life expectancy which is the highest in the world and increases every year and demographics sure look like destiny.
Immigration is the solution. (Score:1)
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:2)
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:2)
Just as accurate.
Eventually, when enough of a population is not working, the society must either collapse (every other time in history) or create technology that's many orders of magnitude cheaper then a human to take care of all the non-working humans.
So, add up all the kids under 18 not allowed to work, people over 65 also not allowed, people in the 47 year windows between that cannot work for some reason physical, mental, or unemployment. That better be a small fraction of the ones that
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:2)
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:2)
So why do we need humans? (Score:1)
I mean, if robots will replace all young people in Japan, this explain the high suicide rates of young people in Japan, its not a good message to send.
Re:Avoid the parents. (Score:2)
The robot has a home page (Score:5, Informative)
Matrix .2? (Score:3, Funny)
Well... (Score:2)
Time to start up that business (Score:1, Funny)
I for one.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I for one.... (Score:2)
Would that would be
Be sure to have Robot Insurance just incase... (Score:4, Funny)
Not for me please... (Score:2)
Re:Not for me please... (Score:2)
Johnny... (Score:2)
Don't hold your breath........ (Score:1)
Labor is cheaper (Score:3, Interesting)
For the average japanese joe in thier sunset years, they're more likely to import labor from other countries to work in thier nursing home facilities (why not? We already import Filipino nurses like crazy in california) for the price of 1 robot, you could pay the salary of 4 imported nurses, or a nursing home facility.
And despite the report saying there is a decline in birth rates, everyone has family to lean on at some point.
Realistically, would you want to be taken care of a cold, unloving robot that couldn't imagine what I was feeling? What's this thing going to do, detect if I stop breathing and call the coroner? No thanks.
Re:Labor is cheaper (Score:2)
Re:Labor is cheaper (Score:2)
Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2)
1: How to stop the brain from degenerating from the age of 30 onwards
2: How to connect the brain to robotic limbs (direct attach)
3: How to disconnect the brain from the body (o2 source, nitrition, remove byproducts of metabolism etc)
Tah-dah, no more old people. Just robotic bodies wi
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:5, Insightful)
Most people who lived believing that demonic posession rather than germs were responsible for sickness died still believing it. They were just eventually replaced by people whose minds were open to new theories.
If people don't die die, old (wrong) ideas will never die, and humans will never improve.
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2)
I don't believe that at all. The reason "old people" fail to continue learning is precisely because they know they aren't going to live very long.
If that wasn't the situation, society would change... Right now, it's pretty much expected that you go to school until you're in your 20's, then you NEVER GO AGAIN. That could quite easily be changed, forcing older people to re-learn what they know every few decades, includ
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2)
Most people do not question their values because they have invested too much into them, not because they figure they won't get much out of it as they're due to die soon. Lets think of an example:
An old preacher retires from the ministry and one day is offered a religious text from a different faith. He declines to read it, saying he is happy believing what he believes. Why?
a)
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2)
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2)
A very small difference.
There's a big difference between being wrong all your life, and being wrong for the first 1/3rd of your life, or so... In the former case, your example may hold, but in the latter case, probably not.
Besides, the actual
Re:Screw intelligent robots! (Score:2, Interesting)
I have a Portuguese girlfriend, and she tells me the young population of Portugal today sometimes says they think they need
Re:And after all that think like you die off... (Score:2)
Since, only people who believe that living forever is ok will be around... But seriously people change their mind and what if we still had great minds around today. You are thinking that society improves just by people dying off. Well that is not the case... Society improves by medical, scientific, and technological advancements, not b
Re:And after all that think like you die off... (Score:3, Interesting)
Newton probably would have used his clout to condemn Einsteins theory that exposed flaws in his own. That is, if he dragged himself away from searching for bible codes, which is what he spent the last part of his life on.
Obligatory (Score:1)
In Soviet Russia (Score:1)
"eight different kinds of smells" (Score:1)
economic drivers (Score:2)
I love the 21st century
What's in a name (Score:2)
Roujin Z (Score:5, Interesting)
Roujin Z ( See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/630506251X/qid=1
Overall, it's a pretty decent film and very amusing as well.
Re:Roujin Z (Score:2)
But will it eat old people's medicine? (Score:2, Funny)
The robot hands him a note, which reads, "Dear Honorable Father: Given the rising cost of healthcare and living, we've decided to have your interned for your own good. The robot will take care of your every bodily need, feed you nutritious OldsterChow(TM) and constantly monitor your lifesigns. Because we don't want you getting sick by being exposed to other ill peopl
Ohana means "family" (Score:3, Insightful)
I find it hard to believe that a culture as deeply grounded in society and family as the Japanese would actually "abandon" their elderly. I'm more inclined to believe that there are simply not enough young bodies to care for the old bodies. Caring for an elderly person who is losing mobility and strength is a lot of work, and it seems the older they get, the more they try to hang on to their independence. Tools that will compensate for the deficiencies of an aging body are a way to allow a person to be independent longer and maintain their dignity. Nursing care is when you have to be given baths, medications, meals and helped to walk or wheel to the bathroom. Independence is being able to dress yourself, go where you want, transport your own groceries, clean your own house, cook your own food and accomplish the tasks that make your life worth living, such as gardening or reading. Reading books might now take a magnifying glass, but the magnifying glass gives you the independence to read the book when and where you want. (The average Japanese living space is crowded with lots of things in too little space. It's a lot like living in a submarine. Things are put away, and many times lots of things must be moved to do ordinary tasks like sewing or ironing. For the elderly, this could present a major problem.)
The immigration of nursing care is probably acceptable to someone who needs it, but a "companion" from a different culture, who doesn't share your history and doesn't speak your language well, is less desirable than being independent. (I wonder how many of the people who point to the availability of Indonesian and Filipino "care assistants" are the same who bitch because the Dell or HP technical support in Bangalore doesn't meet their standards..!?! Why is not wanting to be touched by a cultural stranger more "racist" than wanting to be able to clearly understand the person at the other end of the tech support phone?)
Mike Burke
Any international economists in the house? (Score:2)
Someone let me know. Because I just don't get it.
Japan develops technology for technology sake. (Score:1)
I also think that in America, we arent
In Japan... (Score:1)
Meanwhile, at Cyberdyne Systems... (Score:2)
Re:Meanwhile, at Cyberdyne Systems... (Score:2)
Robots in healthcare? (Score:1)
Cue jokes... (Score:2)
including ex-dogfood?
Hmmm... Asimov, anyone? (Score:2)
On another note, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have some facility in older folks' homes that can sense extreme health events. More than the buttons for "I've fallen and can't get up." Something that can sense seizures, heart events, and labored breathing.
The good news is, that dogs can be trained to "see" many of these types of events, and can help their owner out quite a bit. Dogs have the added benefit of giving their owner companionship.
Today this, tomorrow the psycopathic bed... (Score:1)
"eight different kinds of smells" (Score:1)
You gotta be kidding me (Score:1)
The One's That... (Score:1)
What about the Soviet Russia? (Score:1)
(Sorry to ask, I'm new in these "Soviet Russia" jokes)
Social Change in Japan (Score:2)
A great collection of articles on Social Change in Japan [japanfocus.org] on japanfocus.org. [japanfocus.org]
Some articles relevant to the present discussion:
Roujin Z (Score:1)
Re:Beowulf Cluster (Score:2, Funny)
Teh robots can combine (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Beowulf Cluster (Score:2)
Re:Beowulf Cluster (Score:2)
Well yeah, in my opinion this is a huge mistake. (Score:1)
I understand that perhaps we have an over populated world, but I don't see how building robots actually solves the problem. The more robots you build, the less jobs you have in your community unless your community builds the robots, and I highly doubt that people will buy expensive robots build in Japan when they can buy robots made in China.
I think sure it's a new industry, but it
Re:before you bring out the "racism"... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Well then its pure stupidity. (Score:1)
"Hey kids, sons, daughters, we are going to replace you with these andriods"
I think it's a ridiculously stupid message to send the youth. It's going to drive the youth out of Ja