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Film Studios Sue Samsung Over DVD players
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Wed Feb 22, 2006 02:53 AM
from the day-late-and-a-dollar-short dept.
from the day-late-and-a-dollar-short dept.
Lam1969 writes "The Korea Times reports that five U.S. film studios have taken Samsung to court for selling DVD players which allow users to bypass DRM features. The film companies, including Walt Disney and Time Warner, are demanding Samsung recall the players. According to a Samsung spokesman quoted in the article, the movie studios probably 'take issue' with Samsung's HD841 model, which Samsung sold in the United States for five months in 2004."
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it's all samsung's fault! (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks MPAA! (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, this article reminded me that there are [videohelp.com] really good DVD players out there that support region-free, HDCP-free, high-resolution playback at a reasonable price.... and they play back DivX as well. I think I will order one right now, in fact.
How's that for blowing up in your face, MPAA? I'm sure I'm not the only one that is now thinking, "yes, actually, thats exactly what I want. Thanks for the reminder."
Parent
Re:it's all samsung's fault! (Score:4, Insightful)
From the article: ''The Motion Picture Association of America estimates that the movie industry lost $5.4 billion last year due to piracy.'' Hrm, yeah, and I bet that's all people buying dvd's from other countries and bepassing the DRM with samsung equipment. Oh, wait, wasn't that the Linux pirates last week?
Contrary to popular belief, Linux is not the only OS you can bypass DVD encryption on. However, Linux is the only OS that you need to bypass encryption in order to play DVDs.
Personally, I would venture a guess that it was more the crap movies they produced, and the prices they charge for them. As a linux user, I've given up buying DVDs because it is illegal for me to play the DVDs I bought on my laptop, which is unacceptable. Purchasing more products from them would only encourage it.
Out of curiosity, if you heard your DVD player was recalled because it had more features than it was supposed to, would you really respond? Personally, if I weren't a geek and didn't know what was up already, I would research why they wanted to recall it, then I would discover what the MPAA is doing, and I'd be pissed. (It's hard to tell the MPAA is screwing you until you use an OS that doesn't have a single legal on-the-shelf 3rd party DVD playing software, and the only free software is deemed illegal.)
Personally, I'm wondering where I was when these things were being sold! A DVD player that plays DVDs! No wonder the MPAA is suing, you only leased the right to have a DVD copy of the movie, there is no implied playability unless you also purchase their decoders. Next they'll start selling descrambling glasses that you have to visit one of their eye doctors to have focused for you!
Serves 'em right, but then again, serves us right for those who copied movies every chance they got.
Parent
Major miscalculation (Score:5, Insightful)
The MPAA seems to think there's a dichotomy of pirating films or purchasing them, and by extension that if we make pirating impossible, then every pirate will go out and purchase everything that they would otherwise have pirated. And that, my friends, is a rather baseless claim (even if you're completely unaware of the animosity towards studios in general).
Parent
Re:it's all samsung's fault! (Score:5, Insightful)
They claim $5.4 billion in losses, but by its very nature it's a number that's more or less pulled out of the air with no means to know how that figure was determined, and thus how accurate it might be. Given that many of the individual RIAA/MPAA members have shown a propensity to mislead and cheat the public and have been held accountable by the court system for doing so, I fail to see why I should accept that their reported losses are even within an order of magnitude of any true losses they may have experienced.
Parent
Re:it's all samsung's fault! (Score:5, Insightful)
For a lot of families, it's simple math.
2 adult tickets at $7.50
2 child tickets at $4.50
1 massive popcorn barrel at $5.50
3 drinks at $2.50 each
Total: $37 (based on real local prices)
Now, let's say they get a huge TV and surround sound system:
NetZero/Blockbuster subscription: $10 a month
Entertainment system (50+" HDTV and combo home theater system): $1,500 - $2,000, financed to around $50 a month.
For just $23 more than a trip to the movies, you can watch a dozen movies a month at home.
Parent
Come after me (Score:5, Insightful)
My local kebab shop doesn't sue me... (Score:5, Insightful)
To be certain, it's nice for them to be able to ensure that the original content is high-quality and in a certain order and all, but I should be the one to decide whether I want to watch ads and splash-screens, or even more pointedly whether my kids watch the entire movie or just the 98% of it that isn't offensive.
Would they care if I piped it into the 320x200 monochrome screen on my mobile 'phone to watch? Or watched it through a filter that corrected for colour blindness? Or just colour-inverted it? Or played it at 120% of realtime? Or toneshifted the soundtrack? Or karaoke style? If so, why?
Parent
Re:My local kebab shop doesn't sue me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Just like the RIAA (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
I don't want this to be flamebait, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Presumably the logic is simple: Apple restrics rights, fine; Microsoft, the MPAA or anyone else restricts right, treason!
Parent
Re:Come after me (Score:4, Insightful)
Ads before DVD's is *such* a scam.
I don't believe it's all about flogging off the studios other wares either... not for a second!
I reckon they are *deliberately* trying to degrade the viewing experience for DVDs by reverting back to the ads before the movie VCR model, so as to make it easier for them to push their next generation DVD formats such as HD-DVD and Blueray.
They want to make DVDs seem obsolete, and equivalent to VCRs in consumers minds.
Think about it. For most consumers the promise of high definition means jack-**** as they don't have the hardware to appreciate it, so the studios have a tough sell ahead of them.
It's a far easier push for them to sell their DRM-ed to sh*t next gen-formats if they make the current generation look at obsolete as they can. I wouldn't even put it past them to deliberately drop the compression quality on new releases just to make the new formats look better.
I have my tin foil hat on... I know what's going on!
Parent
Re:Come after me (Score:5, Informative)
I have a HD display. I recompress my dvd's using the DVD drcryptor and DVD shrink dance to hold only the movie on a DISC in my Pioneer 200 Disc DVD changer. I have a high end line doubler and even after the recompress and other nasties added during the process I STILL get a fantastic picture. It's better than most CableTV HD channels because the cable company is compressing them hard now to fit more in the pipe.
Plus dinking with HD content I can download off the internet and play with my DSM-520 off the server in the house makes any next format player 100% useless to me.
HDDVD and BluRAY are 100% useless. you can easily fit full HD content on a regular DVD using mpeg4HD compression and it looks fantastic. They want it only because they built it with DRM from the beginning and not useability.
Parent
Re:Come after me (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Come after me (Score:4, Interesting)
Still, I'm hardly deterred by that. I'd like to see them try to sue someone for playing a disc that they personally own. I after all know the Kryptonite of any standard corporate lawyer-ninja squad: the jury trial. You'll be hard pressed to find a jury that will award against Joe Q. Public to a multi-billion dollar corporation for doing something that seems reasonable.
Of course, that does nothing to shield the MPlayer dev team, who are (mostly) safe at the moment only because they live outside of US jurisdiction.
Parent
Re:Come after me (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, you still get to see the ads and warnings with mplayer.
$ mplayer dvd://1
-- Publisher's logo
$ mplayer dvd://2
-- copyright warning
$ mplayer dvd://3
-- copyright warning, in Flemish
$ mplayer dvd://4
-- copyright warning, in Linear A
$ mplayer dvd://5
-- trailers for upcoming releases
$ mplayer dvd://6
-- original theatrical trailer
$ mplayer dvd://7
-- interview with director
$ mplayer dvd://8
-- interview with voice actor
$ mplayer dvd://9
-- interview with dub voice actor
$ mplayer dvd://10
-- THE FILM! YAY! AT LAST! * sits back, grabs snacks and b33r *
... oh, shit...
$ mplayer dvd://10 -alang ja -slang en
Hooray for convenience!
Parent
Explaining DRM to a 2 year old (Score:5, Interesting)
You try explaining that one to a 2 year old...
Parent
Re:Explaining DRM to a 2 year old (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
2.5 minutes is *forever* (Score:5, Insightful)
2.5 minutes. That's 150 seconds. Try something: Sit there and count off 150 seconds. That's rather a long freakin' time to be waiting for a video to start, no? It takes less time to make a bag of microwave popcorn.
Really, waiting 2.5 minutes isn't the problem, it's waiting 2.5 minutes when you know that it's totally pointless that's really annoying.
Parent
Re:2.5 minutes is *forever* (Score:5, Insightful)
It's even worse when you have these kids DVDs that show the loud "you're a thief"-commercial in the beginning. (You wouldn't steal a car blah blah blah). The noise and the imagery is actually quite scary for kids. I'm forced to "pirate" this movie to remove the fricking anti-piracy message from these movies (along with several minutes of commercials -- some Disney movies have 10-15 minutes of non-skippable commercials before the menu starts).
Parent
Re:2.5 minutes is *forever* (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't fall into their verbal hole. You did NOT pirate the movie. Modifying content you PAID for is NOT pirating. Part of the whole problem with dealing with the media companies is keeping straight what is being addressed, by allowing them to redefine terms, we lose.
Taking another's content and selling it for profit is pirating.
Parent
Re:2.5 minutes is *forever* (Score:5, Insightful)
For me, the point isn't about 60seconds, or 120 seconds. It's my media. I bought it. I should be able to use it as I see fit, not as they see fit. ...tell me you'd tolerate that from a car manufacturer.
How about from now on, whenever you start your car, it won't move for 3 minutes. You must be buckled in your seat ('cause after the ~3-minutes are up, it starts to move w/o further warning) and on the windshield a video message is displayed about how you need to change your oil to keep the warranty.
Parent
Re:2.5 minutes is *forever* (Score:4, Informative)
That is a very good point. Besides, the guy blindly criticising my brother's parenting skill obvioulsy has no idea what kind of parent my brother is.
He's spends a *lot* of time playing (and educating) his son, but he is also a geek, and if it can be hacked to make it better, it must be done! :)
Parent
Re:Uh, fast forward? (Score:5, Informative)
No, not all of them. A DVD author can disable your fast forward button for certain sections of video, just like he can disable your next/previous and menu buttons. That questionable part of the DVD spec is called "prohibited user operations".
Parent
VCR (Score:4, Funny)
Re:VCR (Score:5, Informative)
One very simplistic way to defeat Macrovision is to build a simple level-limiter circuit, so the extraordinarily high voltage pulses sent in the vertical retrace interval will be clamped to peak white level {1V} before they reach the VCR. This is really nothing more than a DC-coupled, non-inverting, high-bandwidth version of a guitar distortion pedal.
To build a more sophisticated timebase corrector, use a 1881 sync separator [national.com] to get the timing signals, and some sort of bilateral switch {a 4016/4066 will sort of just about do, but look at the Maxim web site [maxim-ic.com] for some higher-bandwidth, lower-on-resistance ones} to switch between the existing video signal, and a locally-generated "black" signal {about 0.3 volts}. The 1881 has a composite sync output which should be used to add "clean" timing to the artificial black {just force it down to 0V when the timing signal goes low}. Be sure to use op-amps with a decent slew rate, not 358's! You will also need either a bunch of TTL ICs {if you're hard} or a microcontroller. At the beginning of each frame, switch to "artificial black" for about the first 20 lines of picture, then switch to the real picture for all but the last 20 or so lines, which should be replaced by more artificial black. You may need to experiment with the number of lines you strip out. If you are 500p3r l33t, you might even care to insert your own locally-generated Teletext information in the newly-created vertical retrace interval; but don't expect this to come out right on a VHS recorder.
Parent
Re:VCR (Score:4, Funny)
Maxim has girls AND components? It truely is geek heaven.
Parent
kvcd (Score:3, Insightful)
sue them
Ebay (Score:4, Funny)
CPRM is like JEDEC (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, DRM and especially things like region locks are really terrible for the consumer, but that's not the issue here. If there were a non-DRM standard for DVD, Samsung could manufacture players for that standard all they like. The fact is that they agreed to a set of rules which included not making non-DRM players, and they decided to go ahead and make a player that is for all intents and purposes non-DRM.
They will be hit with a penalty, no doubt.
Re:CPRM is like JEDEC (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, a bad guy like Robin Hood or George Washington - they too violated the commonly agreed rule to lube their backsides and take it nice and quiet. And now Samsung has joined these horrible villains in their infamy. Oh, the humanity.
Actually, it is. Samsung realized that they could make a product that's better for their customers than what was being manufactured previously, and took the opportunity to do so. That's all there is to it, really.
If one of the Prince John's tax collectors decides to let some poor peasant keep his money and buy food for his children instead of doing his "duty" by taking every last penny and leaving the peasant to watch his children starve to death, is he a bad guy for breaking the rules ?
Sure, the Sheriff of Nottingham must deliver the taxes to Prince John, after all.
Parent
Huh? Wow, you're bought & paid for. (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, by definition this makes them the good guy.
Parent
Obligatory reference (Score:5, Funny)
More/Better Links (Score:5, Informative)
And ultimately, Google News will provide all the stories you could want [google.com]
To summarize the facts:
1. Samsung stopped producing this drive a year and a half ago
2. The 'features' were unlockable through remote control key combos
3. "The DVD-HD841 DVD-player can allow region encoding and high-bandwidth digital-content protection (HDCP) bypassing, provided a code is entered by remote control. Although pulled off shelves, its genes appear to have been transmitted to the DVD-HD747 and DVD-HD941." reference here [indiantelevision.com]
HDCP Bypassing!!
Weren't we just complaining about HDCP a day or two ago?
Run, don't walk, to eBay and get one of these players before Samsung pulls 'em.
Raise your hand... (Score:4, Funny)
Raise your hand if you're going to return your player if/when it's recalled. =P
Don't buy players from big companies (Score:5, Insightful)
Large companies have more to lose if they don't toe the MPAA line (I'm seriously wondering how long it will be until players refuse to play a movie more than once a week or so).
Buy cheap players packed with features from middle east companies that may not even exist - much harder to threaten a company like that and features sell those sort of players and fierce competition keeps prices low.
movie industry list $5.4bn? (Score:5, Interesting)
$5.400.000.000?! I sure would like to see the math behind this estimation. It's probably the old non-sensical #copied movie * $$/movie. Let's say the average DVD price is around $20, that means 270.000.000 movies have been copied? Yeah right!
And it assumes:
I'm getting quite tired of these MPAA calculations.
The opposed feature in these players is most likely the ability to disable the country-code in these players (via a hidden menu) so that non-US DVDs - in fact all DVDs - can be played in the players. I for one never understood why I shouldn't be able to watch DVDs that I bought in Europe because I *cannot* get them here.
Oh well... In the end the MPAA will succeed convincing enough politicians who will pass more and more stringent laws, copyright will be extended to 500 years, and in a decade or so the movie industry will be facing bancruptcy and wondering why nobody is buying their super-duper-extra-high-definition-drm-secured-DVDs -of-dumb-holywood-crap anymore.
As I mentioned somewhere before: Instead of land-owners and peasants without rights and property we'll have information-owners and rightless masses of consumers... Information-Feudalism.
Wonderful (Score:5, Funny)
Evidence (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there any evidence that the encryption actually reduces piracy, in other words, increases sales? Is there any evidence that zoning on DVDs increases sales?
To what extent does zoning reduce sales? For instance, holidaymakers and businessmen not being able to purchase DVDs in the countries they visit due to zoning? Have the film studios researched this? Anyone know of any relevant market research?
A recall? (Score:4, Insightful)
Erm, how could Samsung make a recall on these players? They can't force people to give them back.
Recalls are only for products that are faulty, when the purchaser gladly and willingly returns them.
I hate the non-skippable DVDs (Score:5, Interesting)
I watch DVDs on my computer. I "upgraded" my DVD-player software and it wouldn't let me skip sections that the DVD says can't skip.
I was watching Voyager DVDs and every episode starts with a non-skippable 10s clip of Voyager powering up and moving across the sreen. Even though it was only for 10s, after 3-4 episodes I was really really hating that clip.
Anyway, I feel that now a pirate DVD is more valueable than a real DVD since pirate DVDs remove all skip codes and DRM and makes for more pleasant viewing.
Re:I hate the non-skippable DVDs (Score:5, Funny)
I had a similar reaction, except that after 3-4 episodes I was really really hating Voyager. :-)
Parent
What about current models? (Score:5, Interesting)
That silly phrase :) (Score:5, Insightful)
Samsung: That's it, we're releasing the DVD-s as is.
MPAA: No! You can't!
Samsung: WTF?
MPAA: "The Motion Picture Association of America estimates that the movie industry lost $5.4 billion last year due to piracy."
Samsung: What are those estimates based on, not on Samusng DVD players right?
MPAA: Can't you read man, come on, SHOCK! See: "The Motion Picture Association of America estimates that the movie industry lost $5.4 billion last year due to piracy."
People: MPAA you're suing your users and manifacturers and keep pulling those numbers out of your *ss and applying silly DRM restriction so people don't buy your production, what did you expect?
MPAA: And you'll all be sued!!! You know why!? "The Motion Picture Association of America estimates that the movie industry lost friggin $5.4 billion last year due to friggin piracy."!!! Estimate=Fact! Estimate=fact!! Don't question us or you be sued!!! Arghh..
a recall, sure that makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
And for all those who already have one: (Score:5, Informative)
To change region and/or remove HDCP. (Score:5, Informative)
1. Turn on player with no disc in the tray. "No disk" appears on screen.
2. Press the "Repeat" key on the remote.
3. Press "57538" on the remote. A number should appear on screen, indicating your player's current region (e.g. "2").
4. Press the number for your required region (e.g. "1") or "9" for region-free/all-regions. The number will appear on screen, replacing the previous number (from step 3).
5. Press "Open/Close Tray" and leave the tray open for a few seconds.
6. Press "Power On/Off". The tray closes automatically and the player turns off. Next time you turn it on, it is region free (or whatever Region you selected in step 4).
HDCP
1. Turn your television ON
2. Turn the DVD Player ON
(You should see the Samsung screen saver appear on the TV)
3. Ensure the DVD tray is EMPTY and CLOSED
4. Wait for the message 'NO DISC' to appear
5. Press the ANGLE button
6. Press the numbers 4, 3, 2, 7
(You should see the message 'HDCP Free' appear in the upper
left hand corner of your television screen)
7. Press the OPEN/CLOSE button to open the disc tray Your DVD player is now region-free and HDCP-free.
Re:To change region and/or remove HDCP. (Score:4, Informative)
Normal DVD talks to DVD player: My region is region 1. What region are you?
DVD player: I'm region 0. That means region free. I can play you.
Normal DVD: Go ahead and play me.
However, with some American DVDs, the conversation goes like this:
DVD talks to DVD player: My region is region 2. What region are you?
DVD player: I'm region 0. That means region free. I can play you.
DVD: I lied! I'm really region 1. Since you can play me as a region 2 disc but I am supposed to be sold only in region 1, that means you are region free. I won't play on you.
I don't remember the studios that do this except for Paramount, but for these discs, it is necessary to switch the DVD player back to region 1 to play the discs.
Parent
Samsung is not stupid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Samsung is simply building a player where the anti-consumer features can be made as consumer-friendly (or hostile) as the prevailing market conditions permit. This saves them effort of hardwiring different rules and functionality for each and every market or whenever there's been changes to local laws or customs.
Lets face it -- a minority have the player, and there's no tangible effect on the MPAA, since professional pirates wouldn't use a player like this to make bootlegs; heck, most amateur pirates would just as well rip the DVD.
The cat's *totally* out of the bag (Score:5, Insightful)
Movies released on DVD have been available in the internet in very good quality since DeCSS. And even before that professional pirates could make a bit-for-bit copy of any DVD that worked just like the original. One DVD player model that made it possible to circumvent DRM does not have any effect on international piratism. Not one fucking bit.
That cat's totally out of the bag.
Parent