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Intel Takes Quad Core To the Desktop

Posted by Zonk on Tue Nov 14, 2006 08:43 AM
from the and-stay-there dept.
Rob writes to mention a Computer Business Review Online article about Intel's official launch of the Kentsfield chipset. Their Quad Core offering, Intel is claiming, is up to 80% faster than the dual-core Conroe released this past July. From the article: "Kentsfield, a 2.66GHz chip with a 1066MHz front-side bus, is more for computational-heavy usage, including digital content creation, engineering analysis, such as CAD, and actuarial and other financial applications. Steve Smith, director of operations for Intel digital enterprise group, claimed rendering is 58% faster for users building digital content creation systems, for video, photo editing or digital audio. In other words, Kentsfield is for high-end desktops or workstations only. For the average office worker who uses their PC for general productivity apps, such as communications and garden-variety computing, Smith recommended the Core 2 Duo from 'a price point and performance perspective.'"
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  • Why downplay it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Salvance (1014001) * on Tuesday November 14 2006, @08:48AM (#16836886) Homepage Journal
    "Core 2 Extreme quad-core QX6700" - There's a mouthful. It's funny that Intel is continually trying to downplay the importance of this chip for the average user. They say it's best for "more for computational-heavy usage, including digital content creation, engineering analysis, such as CAD" ... sounds like gamers would flock to this. Maybe they realize it's a rushed product (to beat AMD to the punch), and it will be in short supply?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Or it may be that most games are not optimized for multiple cores. If they target gamers, only for gamers to discover that there is little improvement over their previous processor, then Intel's image with gamers would be damaged. However, some game companies such as Valve have recently started to embrace multi-core processors, but it will be awhile before new games are published that take advantage of those extra cores.
    • by GauteL (29207) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:20AM (#16837160) Homepage
      Currently the quad-core is pretty useless for gamers unless you like to run video encoding apps at the same time as you play your game.

      The reason is of course, that most games are barely optimised for dual cores, let alone four cores. It is not simple either as balancing several cores to get the most out of them requires a redesign of the game engine.

      It will be significant for future games, but you are better off buying a high-end dual core now and replacing it with quad-core later on.
      • by oojah (113006) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:28AM (#16837234) Homepage
        you are better off buying a high-end dual core now and replacing it with quad-core later on.

        Right. The best bit about quad core for the moment is that it should drive the dual core prices down.

        Cheers,

        Roger

      • WTF? (Score:5, Funny)

        by LibertineR (591918) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:36AM (#16837366)
        "Currently the quad-core is pretty useless for gamers unless you like to run video encoding apps at the same time as you play your game."

        What? I thought EVERYONE used WinDVR to encode MPEG2 files of Battlestar Gallactica from their TIVO while playing F.E.A.R., and turn it into H262 for uploading as a a killer torrent while kicking but in Call of Duty 2? I suck the life out of an X2 4400 bitch, and I am NOT alone.

        We cant all have a life, so I NEED that chip!

        You insensitive clod!!!

  • Office Apps (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ginnungagap42 (817075) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @08:52AM (#16836924)
    So how does Minesweeper run on it?
  • All I want to know is if QuadCore will make my World of Warcraft Elite battle load and display 4-times faster?
    • As there is sure to be demand for this as multi-cores become more popular, if it doesn't then it's sure to happen in the near future.
  • by AppreticeGuru (1024775) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @08:55AM (#16836952)
    4 cores is great and all, but I know they are still working on support for games such as many Steam offerings with only 2 cores in terms of multi-threading, so I'd have to imagine that game support to really take advantage of a 4-core system would be a long way away. I was still psyched about the low voltage powerhouses for laptops, and I'm wondering how much extra heat 4 cores are going to put out as well. How many apps are really geared to take advantage of 4 cores atm, really?
    • I have a number-crunching program which I rewrote multi-threaded. It is simple enough -- I need 100,000 calculations of the same thing only with different parameters each time, so run them in parallel, two at a time for two threads, four at a time for four threads. I still have the bookkeeping of saving the results of each calculation, and I have streamlined the calculation enough that the bookkeeping part is a significant piece of the overall time.

      I am about 50 percent faster on two cores -- I am guess

  • by NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) <john@oyler.comcast@net> on Tuesday November 14 2006, @08:56AM (#16836956) Journal
    Missing a marketing opportunity. ... now with Intel Foursome!
  • I know CPU power is a big factor in performance, but c'mon.. What about extending the rest of the motherboard? I bet things would run faster in dual/quad core mode if there were dual buses so that bottlenecks are reduced to peripherals and memory.
    • by larkost (79011)
      That is the whole point of having multiprocessor systems.
    • by 10Ghz (453478)
      the FSB's have been getting faster, the expansion-buses (PCI, PCI-E etc.) have been getting faster, memory has been getting faster, and they reside on wider buses.

      If you complaint is the FSB; the AMD has something better for you. So what are you looking for here really?
      • by s31523 (926314) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:47AM (#16837526)
        Faster, good... Wider, good... But why not parallel with dual-DMA? Right now, it seems you could have 10 cores, but if all the threads running on each core have to contend for 1 bus, it doesn't matter how fast the bus is. I want each core to be able to access its own memory so it is not blocked by the other core's if it is accessing memory. I want one core to be able to access my NIC while the other accesses the hard drive and the other access the video card. All this requires some sort of parallel bus setup. It is my understanding we have not done this sort of architecture yet, but if we keep increasing the number of processor cores, this would seem to be the next step. BUT, I am not a hardware guy. I am a software guy, and expect it all to just work! :)
        • by 10Ghz (453478) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @10:16AM (#16837876)
          "I want each core to be able to access its own memory so it is not blocked by the other core's if it is accessing memory."

          Say hello to AMD, HyperTransport and integrated memory-controllers. Each CPU has it's own bank of RAM, and Each CPU is directly (well, 8-socket system needs one intermediate jump) connected to the other CPU's, and they can access the RAM connected to the other CPU's as well. So if you have dual-socket system, each socket has it's own RAM-bank, with 128bit bus between the CPU and the RAM, and the CPU can access the RAM attached to the other CPU as well. So as the number of CPU's goes up, the memory-bandwidth goes up as well.

          This tech has been used since 2003 in the AMD's x86-64 CPU's. In the future AMD will have systems where you can plug co-processors and vid-cards to HyperTransport-sockets, alloweing them to directly communicate with the CPU's.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            It's not quite that good in it's current incarnation. Right now, high-end (4 and 8-way) Opteron chips have only three HyperTransport links.

            Try connecting 4 of these chips together using only 3 HyperTransport links per core, with a single-hop memory latency, and allow for one link to external I/O. Can't be done. There are two hops required for the core that handles I/O, which is not a good thing when you consider how important I/O links are in a server.

            Try connecting 8 sockets using only 3 HyperTransport
  • Not native Quad core (Score:3, Informative)

    by kid_oliva (899189) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:01AM (#16836992) Homepage
    From what I've read about Intel's quad-core; it is not native like AMD's will be. They are basically are going to have two dual core's and they will communicate via FSB. That sucks compare to AMD's offering which will be native.
    http://xstremehardware.co.uk/index.php?option=com_ frontpage&Itemid=1&limit=10&limitstart=20 [xstremehardware.co.uk]
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by k_187 (61692)
      yes, but communication between the 2 cores in each of the sets will be faster than any of AMD's cores. My guess is that it'll be a wash. The other (in my opinion more important) thing, is that INtel is shipping now, while AMD is about a year away. By then I believe that INtel will have a quad-core on die chip out. Either way, more FPS!
      • I doubt intercore communication in the Intel design is any better than the Barcelona (it's impossible to say this far out in any event). What is known (I have worked with some of the quad core Intel stuff) is that the two dies produce a higher load on the FSB and require the FSB be clocked down from the equivalent dual-core model. This means that AMDs remaining advantage over Intel's offerings is made more drastic (aggregate memory performance, particularly in multi-socket configurations). I.e. an Intel
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      True, it is not native quad core. However AMD's first venture into quad-core will not be native either. In an effort to catch up to Intel, they will also be releasing a quad-core processor thats "taped together" as Intel's is.

      I recently met with an Intel rep and they are very much pushing their new core architecture. Quad-core this year, Octo-core next.. Core count is the next clock speed. However one of it matters until the software manufacturers can take advantage of it, and very few server applica
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by dfghjk (711126)
      In the timeframe Intel offers this, AMD will have no quadcore part at all. Considering that, it's clear that AMD sucks, not Intel. Later on, Intel's "native" version (Yorkfield, discussed in your link) will have cache improvements and a bump in FSB speed. All things considered, the dual die part doesn't look like it sucks at all (except for AMD).

      There are three sides to this: Intel's, AMD's, and the truth.
  • by topham (32406) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:08AM (#16837064) Homepage

    We were issued laptops at the start of the project. Typical laptop is a Thinkpad T42p. They average somewhere between 1.6Ghz and 1.8Ghz.

    Some people were complaining about performance (java is a hog, and they were using stuff that makes java look 'light'). so they requested new machines.

    They were issued Core 2 Duo systems that are 1.8Ghz, with 2 Gigs of ram. This machines are nice. They guy from IT Support comes up to replace the system and starts saying that he doesn't know why we would upgrade to the desktops, they are the same speed as the laptops.

    Ok, I expect that from some guy off the street, but IT Support?

    (Note: For this work there is a significant speed difference, it is obvious, and almost immediate.)
    Never mind the differences between a single core from a Core 2 Duo, and the core used in a Thinkpad anyway...
  • by Nichotin (794369) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:12AM (#16837090)
    .. since I am a journalist for a computer rag. Anyway, I would say it is a waste of money for most people at this time. Applications can barely use two cores properly, and games are still not as SMP aware as they should. On the other hand, if you run gentoo, THIS CPU IS KILLER :)
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mgblst (80109)
      You know, it doesn't take being a computer journalist to realise that any chip released in the last 3 years is a waste of money for most people. Most people mainly use the computer for broswing the net, and despity Intels previous claims, a faster processor won't make any difference. And despite adverts on UK tv reporting that with the new dual cores, you can read email and listen to music, you don't need a 4 core or 2 core to do any of that.

      The whole thing is a joke, for most people. Like cars that go 1000
      • It depends if people are using flash. Try running a flash 9 intensive site on an old PC or Mac. It will not keep up. To some degree, you do need a faster processor to handle flash and the new "High Def" video codecs coming out. It entirely depends on what you use the net for, but it is important to some people.

        I noticed a difference upgrading from a Dual Xeon 2.0Ghz to a Dual Core Pentium D 805 (2.66Ghz) with quicktime streams for instance. Aside from my poor choice in video card (Geforce 7300), my new
    • by pla (258480) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:33AM (#16837326) Journal
      since I am a journalist for a computer rag.

      I will say "lucky bastard", but that also explains your follow-up comment:



      Applications can barely use two cores properly, and games are still not as SMP aware as they should.

      Although apps and games have started to improve their multithreading, you don't get multi-core for single-app performance. You get it so you can play a modern FPS at the same time you have DVD Shrink backing up a movie for you, with little to no slowdown to either. With a quad core, you can add in two more CPU sucking tasks, again with little to no slowdown (though currently, memory needs to catch up to task of dealing with more cores).

      Six(ish) years ago, I got my first dual CPU machine. Almost nothing except the OS itself ran multithreaded at that time. And the improved performance of the machine just blew me away - Only last year did I eventually decommission that ancient dual CPU box because modern single-CPU speeds had passed it (and I still would have held out, except for the knowledge that I could do an in-place upgrade to a dual-core CPU whenever I wanted to).

      So you may not see the point of multi-cores, when your favorite game won't run any faster on four than on one. But that doesn't even come close to meaning that "most" people won't benefit. Quite the opposite, I'd say that only hard-core gamers wouldn't benefit. Everyone else will feel the improved responsiveness the first time they touch a multi-core box.
      • by MikeBabcock (65886) <mtb-slashdot@mikebabcock.ca> on Tuesday November 14 2006, @12:17PM (#16839806) Homepage Journal
        It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't realize that the average long-running PC has a lot of background processes with sporadic activity levels that ruin the performance of your desktop. Having something like BitTorrent running in its own core makes all the difference in the world too.

        MSN, BitTorrent, an MP3 player and a web browser all running at once (on top of background services) on a single-core system leads to a lot of task switching that is entirely unnecessary in a multi-core environment. And while throughput may not increase 4x, responsiveness will be very much improved.
  • Soon (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mateorabi (108522) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:24AM (#16837192) Homepage
    Soon the number of cores in my desktop machine will surpass the number of blades in my shaving razor.


    But seriously, as it gets harder and harder to make larger CPUs run faster the trend is going to be more, smaller processors per die. Each core is by itself slower than a huge monolithic one, but the sum is greater thanks to non-linear scaling. The trick is getting software to efficiently utilize them all.

  • Hype (Score:4, Funny)

    by h2g2bob (948006) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:25AM (#16837196) Homepage
    It's going like razorblades - the razorblade companies just try to outdo each other on how many blades that can be placed in a single razor. At this rate, expect as many processors as you can physically fit on, plus an extra processor for those tricky, hard to reach programs.
  • Benchmarks! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ironsides (739422) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:39AM (#16837400) Homepage Journal
    Here's one from Toms Hardware. [tomshardware.com]

    Intel's right. On games it doesn't do any better. On video though, well, lets just say I know some architecture majors who would have loved these in their lab several years ago, when 1 frame took 10 minutes to render. And they had 300 frame videos to do.
  • Yeah, Right (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @11:13AM (#16838676)
    Their Quad Core offering, Intel is claiming, is up to 80% faster than the dual-core Conroe released this past July.

    Yeah, that much faster on carefully selected software. And slower on some single thread applications that rely most of all on clock-speed and uncontested memory bus access.

    Would be nice for once to have headlines read something more honest like:

    Speed improvements range from -20% for 50% of your software, up to +80% for 10% of your software.

    There could even be a nice graph of how much software is improved (or degraded) at each 5% bin of performance. Otherwise it's no more honest than saying that your new Ferrari is capable of speeds up to 220mph, without mentioning that this can only be utilized during .01% of your driving.

  • In 2013... (Score:3, Funny)

    by dorianh49 (988940) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @01:35PM (#16841118)
    In 2013, Intel will look back and say, "Four cores and seven years ago, our engineers brought forth on this continent a new microarchitecture, conceived in Santa Clara, and dedicated to the proposition that all men's wallets are created equal."
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by eldavojohn (898314) *

      quadrupoles chipset?

      Well, you were probably joking, but I'll open up a discussion to "whats next?" because this is something I feel the chip makers have kind of lost their way on.

      First off, I'm not criticizing only AMD or Intel, I think they're both guilty of concentrating on perceived performance on desktop CPUs. They don't care how much power the chip consumes or how much heat it dissipates, they only care about what the average consumer sees as immediate performance. To me, performance can be mu

      • Re:whats next (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Divebus (860563) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @08:59AM (#16836980)
        After Effects Rendering. Final Cut Pro HD Rendering. Maya Rendering. Video Compression [Rendering}. If you've ever done what they target this processor for, you'll COMPLETELY appreciate any time NOT spent watching the growbar work. Bring it on, I've been waiting to replace several G5s doing this all day, every day.
        • For the price, I'd rather have 2 dual Woodcrest 2.6 Mac Pros to get 8 cores. A lot of rendering-intensive apps have diminishing returns per core after 4-way SMP, anyhow.
      • by ChibiLZ (697816) *

        First off, I'm not criticizing only AMD or Intel, I think they're both guilty of concentrating on perceived performance on desktop CPUs. They don't care how much power the chip consumes or how much heat it dissipates, they only care about what the average consumer sees as immediate performance. To me, performance can be multiple things and considering that you could fry an egg on my P4 no matter how big the heat sink is ... I don't think I'm going to get many years of use out of it. So heat & power cons

        • True, but I know at least with the Core 2 Duo Intel not only focused on improved performance, but also lower power consumption and heat generation. I was starting to get scared of Intel chips until that point, wondering if purchasing one might be akin to laying a lump of thermite on my floor, but they made a step in the right direction. I hope that they keep moving forward with cooler, less power-hungry chips.

          It's still pretty scary, though. Sure, Core 2 Duo was focused on lower power consumption, but pick
      • by Eivind (15695)
        Longevity hasn't been a problem up until now. I've generally stopped using computers not because they've stopped working, but because there's a much better one available for a price that is low enough to make swapping viable. (economically advantageous even, since I use my computers for a living)

        At work it's the same -- very few of our computers gets swapped because they're broken. Most gets swapped because it's bad business to have a $100/hour employee sitting around waiting for a computer worth $1000 to

      • Re:whats next (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Lumpy (12016) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:41AM (#16837430) Homepage
        You want to know what consumers want?? cheaper.

        They are happy with their new Dell 1.8ghz pentium M laptops and that horribly oudated and incredibly slow P4-1.8ghz processor they bought 3 years ago.

        Consumers are happy now. computers have stagnated hard for the past 3-4 years and the performance gains offered by this new stuff is only marginal for them.

        On video editing, I can see the advances IF your app can take advantage of it, problem is current apps cant take full advantage of that processor until a new build or version is made to take advantages of it.

        The consumer yawns and happily uses their old 3 year old PC or that cheapie from dell that cost them $299 with flat panel and is as slow. They dont care about 64 bit, dual or quad core.

        at least until they buy a new OS and discover that the added bloat requires more processing power to display menus and movethe mouse cursor.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by MojoStan (776183)

              So... Is the quad core considered 4 processors? or just one?
              I ask because the Vista EULA says:

              2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the "licensed device." A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device.

              a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one ti

      • Re:whats next (Score:5, Insightful)

        by archen (447353) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:48AM (#16837536)
        They don't care how much power the chip consumes or how much heat it dissipates,

        Oh really? Now I can't say as far as Intel, but AMD has been very focused on power consumption for a very long time now. All of their literature is filled with benchmarks of power-per-watt and total power savings in the data center, etc. If AMD doesn't care about power consumption, then why would they specifically go to pains to offer CPU versions that are even MORE aggressive in their power saving if you pay a bit more for them? And with all of their power saving innovation and dedication what do they get? Intel now outperforms them and everyone jumps the ship and goes over to the Intel side (despite the fact that the lower power versions of AMD's CPU still use less power when the final weight with the chipset is done).

        You know why they care about what performance the average consumer sees? Because that's all consumers care about. If it were otherwise you wouldn't be seeing your lights dim when your graphics card goes into high gear. Where are the "power conscious" versions of these graphics cores?

        I've got a lot of Athons, and Athlon XP's running where I work. Some burn out but that's often because of their environment and due to the fact that the fan that comes with the heatsink for the OEM version is garbage almost guaranteed to burn out after a year in high dust environments. The Pentium 4 is history, even Intel admits it was on the wrong track. If you want more longevity, then get a robust heatsink fan (undervolted) and underclock your CPU. You DO underclock your CPU right?
      • My understanding was that these chip makers have actually been forced by chip manufacturers to watch power consumption and heat dissipation--by purchasers of laptops. We don't like our battery dying an hour into a meeting, and we don't like our computers to burn our laps in the airport, but we do like our computers to be fast (time is money; I can't afford for my laptop to take five minutes to turn on). I think they first addressed this really with the Pentium M Centrino application.

        Also, I could be wrong
    • New Quad Core?
      Earth warming more.
      Or so says
      The junior Gore.
      Coolness to your every pore:
      Burma Shave
    • Re:overkill (Score:5, Informative)

      by pla (258480) on Tuesday November 14 2006, @09:16AM (#16837124) Journal
      What they need to do is make a Muti-Core NATIVE OS, so even single-thread apps can use more then 1 core

      Other than jumping between cores to improve heat dissipation, how do you propose to make a highly serially-dependant algorithm run on more than one core at a time? Until computers can actually make programmers redundant by writing their own code given a high-level English description of the task (and even then, you'll still have some proveably-serial code), multithreading will remain at the whim of the programmers, not the scheduler.



      also why dont they just make dual-core processors faster!

      For the same reason they stopped the MHz-wars and moved to a core-war in the first place... Making each core faster has started to hit physical limits (power draw and heat dissipation, electron migration in progressively smaller transistors, clock speeds limited by the speed of light across the width of the chip, etc). Make no mistake, the speed will keep creeping up over time, but the end of 18-month speed doubling ended a few years ago. Major new improvements will either involve radical new technologies (and no, spintronics and diamond substrates will only yield incremental improvements) such as quantum, or what we see now, the move toward massive parallelism.



      seems the only way we are going to get ahead in the field

      Gaming, while interesting, does not drive research into the highest end of computing.