Merom in MacBook and MacBook Pros in September? 323
Kevin C. Tofel writes "If you want to see where the computer industry is going, you often have to watch the computer component manufacturers, and that's just what DigiTimes did. AsusTek and Quanta both produce Apple notebooks and sources appear to have just revealed that September is the month for 64-bit Merom CPUs in the MacBook and MacBook Pro line."
What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Interesting)
So I got a Macbook pro in
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Insightful)
(Typing this on a 4.5 year old Tecra 9100 w/ 1GB of RAM.)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2, Informative)
With an Intel Mac it's possible-- in fact, it's commonplace-- for the "average consumer" to be running Parallels and Rosetta at the same time. That's Windows XP plus OSX 10.4.7 plus an emulated PowerPC G4 processor. Suddenly 2 GB doesn't sound like all that much...
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
while screen resulution is roughly 72 ppi A good Printed High Res Printed image is around 600 ppi so for a standard 8*10 at 32bit color depth is about 115MB, and say you have 30 Layers you are using over 3 Gigabytes. Or just having a bunch of heavy apps running at the same time, like virtualization with VMware, wi
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Interesting)
1GB is pretty standard on systems these days. High end systems reguarly have 2GB. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that systems three years from now will be bumping up against the 3-4GB barrier. Especially as HD everything takes ahold, thus requiring insane amounts of memory to handle the latest multimedia files.
For examples of this, look no further than the new generation of game consoles. Developers are alre
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
For Merom in September though, it's the speed and power consumption, not the 64-bitness. Before you really, really need 64-bit you'll probably be buying a new computer anyway.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Boot time isn't such a big deal (unless you're running Windows 98). The 2GB in my MBP is really nice for Aperture though.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
We're talking about Windows XP in this case. A lot of your basic software installs and such require a reboot. I used it as an example, because it's an easy metric to work with and the disk cache is not yet filled when you boot.
But of course, you're an iFanboy, so you just wanted an excuse to talk about your MBP.
I'm personally sitting at a compaq nw9440, which has pretty much all the same trimmings. It's missing a couple of doodads
Mac vs Windows (Score:3, Informative)
I'm personally sitting at a compaq nw9440, which has pretty much all the same trimmings.
I'm typing this on an HP Pavilion and when I replace it I'll replace it with a MBP. I am sick and tired of all the hassles I've had with pcs and windows. I have Norton System Works installed on it and it's supposed to give notice when something is wrong and yet it never does yet my computer frequently freezes and I have to reboot. And for a while now my mouse hasn't worked properly, the pointer constantly stops mov
Re:Apple's Aperture (Score:3, Informative)
What it does suck memory for is caching. Doing most or all of the processing on the video card, the majority of the time is taken loading images from the disk so Aperture caches aggressively. The SLR photo
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh i'd say that 1Gb of RAM is pretty much a baseline requirement nowadays if you're either running XP SP2 or OSX Tiger, with 2Gb the "sweet spot".
I run with less (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
In the case of 64-bit x86 CPUs, there are 8 more registers for the compiler to use. (That's not true of any other 32->64 architectural changes I know of; those were either RISC architectures that already had 31 or 32 registers, or System/3x0 which already had 16 registers.)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Informative)
So for Windows, 64-bit may not be a big deal, but for OS X, there should be more support very soon.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:What about 32bit vs. 64bit drivers (Score:2)
"Leopard takes 64-bit computing to the next level, while maintaining full performance and compatibility for your existing 32-bit applications and drivers."
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Interesting)
The difference here is that Apple has been producing 64-bit software for a while. After all, the G5 processor is 64-bit, and that's been in Apple's line since summer '03. Leopard, when it comes out next year, will supposedly do a particularly good job of allowing 32- and 64-bit applications to coexist and execute at the best levels possible. I recall hearing that Apple has been reworking it's software suites to take better advantage fo 64-bit computing (rather than just recompiling to work as 32-bit applications on a 64-bit machine). So, whereas your AMD machine has barely begun to take advantage of 64-bit capabilities, the Merom-based Apple's will do so from day one.
I don't think you'll 'miss out,' because the improvement may not be apparent for some time.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
-matthew
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
They don't need a mechanism. You could use a 32 bit stub that launches either the 32 bit or 64 bit program depending on which your system was. Apple just makes it easier.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3)
The Universal Binary is not used for this. It is used to compile an application with seperate code bases for to
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, if you use an app that needs large contiguous chunks of memory, you may run into a situation where you have say 600MB of address space left, but no one chunk is larger than 200MB. Then if your app needs a 250MB chunk of memory, it will fail even though there is 600MB left.
Going to a 64-bit address space solves these issues.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:4, Interesting)
For the average user I think it's pretty worthless right now. RAM requirements will creep ever northward, as do all hardware requirements, but by the time you find yourself needing (or even owning) 4gb of RAM this 64-bit thing will be old-hat.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, your implication is correct that 64-bit really isn't as big a deal as it was hyped to be by the likes of AMD (who teamed with CryTek to put out that awful 64-bit version of Far Cry with the higher-resolution textures to trick gamers into thinking having a 64-bit address space had something to do with that and not their GPU). XCode 2.4 supports four-architecture Universal Binaries anyway, so you'll have 32-bit/64-bit PPC/Intel applications. You shouldn't worry about missing out on anything
Besides, getting a Core 2 Duo system now would be silly when you can wait until first quarter of 2007 when Intel's Santa Rosa chipset comes out, replacing the Napa chipset used by the Core Duo. It'll have an 800Mhz bus speed upgrade that will really let the Core 2 take advantage of its power as well as ship with a new WLAN 802.11n chipset.
I have an Intel iMac and an Intel MacBook, but I'm quite happy and waiting for next year's Macs before even thinking of heading to eBay. There's always something better around the corner, especially with Apple.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
For starters, you can't put more than 2GB of RAM, total, in one of these right now due to motherboard design limitations - so people talking about 64-bit CPUs allowing better use of large chunks of memory seems like a non-issue for this particular machine.
Even if I was all concerned about making "full use" of OS X Le
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Informative)
To start off with the X86 architecture really does suck. It is register starved and the instruction set is miserable. It is a pig but because Intel and AMD have such a huge potential market they have thrown enough time , talent, and money to make it a very fast and cheap pig.
The PPC didn't gain a whole lot from going to 64 bit. If a program didn't need to do 64 bit math or a 64 bit address space then it would run as fast of faster as a 32 program. BTW this is a good thing. It means that the PPC was broken to start with and didn't force programs to use 64 bit pointers if they didn't need to.
When AMD created the Athlon 64 it fixed one of the X86s worst problems. AMD doubled the number of registers. Even if a program doesn't do 64 bit math or doesn't need more than four gigabytes of memory that will run 30% to 60% faster when compiled for 64 bit than 32 bit.
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:3, Interesting)
And the need to process bigger pointers. These often need to be moved to and from memory, which means potential latency problems; while caches obviously help here, 64-bit data takes up twice as much space, meaning that the effective capacity of the cache is reduced, and therefore its potential hit-rate.
In real terms therefore, as you say, what benefits one sees depends on the applications that are being used. I've seen figures in the +/- 15% range for
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What is the deal with 64 bit? (Score:2)
Re:Linux is the best OS for 64 bit (Score:2)
Digitimes is not a good predictor. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Digitimes is not a good predictor. (Score:2)
Re:Digitimes is not a good predictor. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Digitimes is not a good predictor. (Score:2)
Seriously! What is this, Digg.com?
64 or 32 bit ?? (Score:3, Funny)
And it was uphill... both ways.
And when it snowed, the gates froze up and we had to execute the same instruction over and over until spring thaw.
64 bits?? You youngsters have it easy!!!
Re:64 or 32 bit ?? (Score:3, Funny)
News? (Score:3, Insightful)
yay! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:yay! (Score:5, Funny)
Not to be a grammar nazi or a spelling nazi or both, but only on /. could a statement such as this be "interesting"
Re:yay! (Score:2)
Why the hell do so many people call them labtops?
Re:yay! (Score:2)
I just call them nobebooks.
Re:yay! (Score:2)
Manufactured Demand (Score:3, Insightful)
64 bit processing, let alone dual-core tech has yet to be fully applied in the mainstream. People salivate and argue over the latest and greatest and when to buy what to stay "future-proof" in terms of hardware.
I'm still waiting for a viable 64-bit OS fer cryin' out loud, and don't get me started on SLI...
I am going to purchase a single-core AMD 64 San Diego core for $139 bucks and I'm going to be just fine for the next 2 years minimum. I keep my gaming system in tip-top shape, so I don't need an extra CPU core to process all the spyware running in the background.
Re:Manufactured Demand (Score:3, Informative)
My Gentoo box has been working fine for the last several months [it's a new box] and my previous AMDX2 before that ran fine and my Intel 820 ran fine and
Oh you mean, a Redmond based OS... well TFB.
Tom
I normally don't respond to trolls... (Score:2)
The FUD about drivers not being there is for ancient crap like winmodems - stuff that deserves to die a long, painful death.
Re:I normally don't respond to trolls... (Score:2)
Re:I normally don't respond to trolls... (Score:2)
Re:I normally don't respond to trolls... (Score:2)
Moral of the story: don't buy cheap ass hardware. It goes the same way for the linux guys
And there are several HDTV tuner cards well supported, for example this one [planetamd64.com] comes recommended. No reason to pay the Apple Tax...
Worth the wait? (Score:2)
TRFA (Score:5, Informative)
Is Yonah 64-bit as well? (Score:2)
I'm curious... in the articles I have read about Core Duo and Core 2 Duo (Yonah and Merom, at least on the notebook end of things), I never saw anyone mention 64-bit support as some amazing new feature. I heard a few mentions of it in the early stages of speculation, but now that it's the eve of the release, nobody's making a fuss about it. Usually, when a new 64-bit processor is coming out, it's a big deal. So is Merom actually 64-bit, or did that part get scrapped, or what?
I'd like 64-bit, since x86_6
Re:Is Yonah 64-bit as well? (Score:5, Informative)
The Core 1 CPUs were basically Pentium IIIs with extra instructions and much-revamped layout and FSB. The 64-bit Pentium 4s were regular Pentium 4s with the ability to break down 64-bit instructions into chunks that the lowest-level of the CPU could work with. The Core 2 is still the venerable i686 from the good 'ole days, but they've done some rather dramatic changes (much more than from PIII -> Core 1), including execution units that can chew 64-bit instructions in the raw. The other huge advantage of Core 2 is that Intel FINALLY fixed SSE. Until now, SSE always used at least two clocks to get 128-bit work done, and usually many more. Now SSE has been fixed to be a lot more like the Altivec unit on the G4, it works like a _real_ vector coprocessor and can chew on 128-bit instructions in one clock.
Overall, my impression is that the implementation isn't as 'clean' as the AMD64, but Intel invested in all the right places, and the overall product is obviously a winner. Sometimes doing the 'wrong thing' really well is better than doing the 'right thing' three years ago and sitting on it. When AMD fixes their SIMD implementation, I'll go back to championing the Athlon; until then, the Core 2 is the best bang, for your buck or otherwise.
Re:Is Yonah 64-bit as well? (Score:2)
Re:Is Yonah 64-bit as well? (Score:2)
Merom is 64-bit. No one is making a big deal out of it because for most people, it isn't a big deal. Sure if you need to address more than 4 gig of RAM with a single thread for video processing or something, this means you don't need a hack, but really while OS X is moving to full 64-bit support no one cares that much.
Just bought an MacBook! (Score:2, Insightful)
iMac (Score:5, Insightful)
I've had a 17" Intel iMac for just over a month now -- it was bought to replace my homemade Windows PC. I also have plans to replace my "main" QuickSilver with a 20" iMac as soon as I have cash-in-hand, but I may wait things out. I'm usually against the all-in-one solutions, but this iMac really has impressed the hell out of me with its elegance and simplicity. That's no laughing matter, either. My Quicksilver is a bundle of wires -- keyboard, mouse, USB hub, the round thing that gives me audio-in-over-USB (pre-"digital audio" PowerMac), monitor cable, power to the Mac, power to the monitor, speaker wires, power to the speakers. Sheesh. I do like the expandability of my PowerMac, but all I ever really install are hard drives. I don't even do that anymore, because I've set up a homemade Myth box dual purposed as a NAT with 600GB of RAID1 storage so I can work on any computer in the house.
So, yeah, I do want a Pro machine's power, and am willing to pay for a Pro machine's power, but I really want the all-in-one-ness of the flat panel iMac.
Re:iMac (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:iMac (Score:2)
If macbooks and macbook pros switch to Merom, so will iMacs and Mac Minis, no need for any iMac Pro foolishness.
Intel's Core (Solo and Duo) weren't fated to live long, the goal was to get the new line started, show that intel had scrapped Netburst and make people eager to see Core 2's improvements
Merom MacBook neat, but Graphics? (Score:2)
Or maybe this is the way Apple wants it. I guess there's supposed to be some reason to go with the Pro model.
Re:Merom MacBook neat, but Graphics? (Score:2)
Re:Merom MacBook neat, but Graphics? (Score:3)
Any predictions about the next Mini Bump? (Score:2)
Apple *always* has a plan. (Score:2)
Re:dust + settle (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:dust + settle (Score:4, Informative)
You'll be able to run 64bits OS/softwares on Core2 macbooks too.
Re:dust + settle (Score:3, Informative)
While this may be paper for you, Anandech found Core 2 Duos to perform 10 to 15% better than Core Duos on average [anandtech.com] with exactly the same power draw (and therefore autonomy)
Re:dust + settle (Score:5, Insightful)
The threshold of being noticeably faster is generally held to be around 30%. Below that and you mostly don't notice unless you're really looking for it.
(Exceptions abound, of course.)
Re:dust + settle (Score:5, Insightful)
Quote from the press release:
Re:dust + settle (Score:5, Funny)
Re:dust + settle (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Technology dust doesn't ever really settle (Score:2)
I knew back then that Core 2 would be a real step up for Intel. So buying a 2000 laptop back then cuz it has a new fancy Intel cpu when your existing laptop is just fine
And yes, I know a few people who bought the new macbooks BECAUSE they have a new Intel processor in them.
Tom
Re:Technology dust doesn't ever really settle (Score:5, Insightful)
I also disagree with those who say, "now is always the time to buy, because there will always be something better coming along." I disagree because progress (and price drops) are not uniform over time. Look what happened when Core 2 hit the desktop.
Re:Technology dust doesn't ever really settle (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe that's true of Core Uno or whatever they called it. It's not true of Core Duo. Going from a single core to dual cores with shared cache is more than a mild upgrade.
Re:Technology dust doesn't ever really settle (Score:3, Informative)
I'm more interested in the new core. I've been dual-coring since the beginning of last year. Nothing new here.
But the new ALU and FPU of Core 2 intrigues me more as an implementor of software it's a new architecture to play with.
Tom
Re:Technology dust doesn't ever really settle (Score:2)
Film?! You meant "digital"? Film is so archaic.
Re:Both MacBook and MacBook Pro? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Too bad they didn't wait.. (Score:2)
The first time I looked - it's probably not true any more - the Athlon 64 Mobile plus its chipset had lower power consumption than a Pentium M plus its chipset.
Re:Too bad they didn't wait.. (Score:2)
Duh... no it doesn't, the only reason why 64bits laptop had a small battery life is that they used desktop processor instead of notebook processors
The reason for that may be ... I don't know... that PPC laptops used G4s and 64bit was only available on G5 chips?
Re:Too bad they didn't wait.. (Score:2)
From your use of "would have", I presume you mean "64-bit Intel Macs running Tiger" rather than "64-bit Intel Macs running Leopard". Are there a lot of 64-bit apps for the PowerMac G5 and Xserve G5? (Tiger doesn't support 64-bit apps using much more than libSystem; no 64-bit GUI code, for example.)
Re:Too bad they didn't wait.. (Score:3, Insightful)
That would either mean that they'd be running Tiger, in which case you'd have the same limitations as on the G5 machines (no GUI in 64-bit code, so you'd have to split the app between a 32-bit front end and a 64-bit back end), or Leopard, in which case "the start" would have been Spring 2007.
If you're "sure", presumably you just got your Mac Pro and tried building a 64-bit ap
Re:What are the advantages? Should I sell my 2.16? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What are the advantages? Should I sell my 2.16? (Score:2)
Re:What are the advantages? Should I sell my 2.16? (Score:2)
What are the advantages to this? I just purchased the macbook pro 2.16 in late June. Should I consider selling and buying a new Macbook Pro? Should I see a major performance hike?
Are you using your laptop as a video processing workstation or a 3-D graphics platform? If not, then most of the differences between the chips are irrelevant to you. Casual gaming is GPU bound, not CPU bound. For most applications, the Core 2 Duo and the Core Duo perform almost identically at the same speed. The Core 2 Duo provi